KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Time for Kenny to look in the mirror

Kuyt has been a good player for Liverpool consistently ok so he had a poor game against QPR. Kuyt did not cost £35m either. I know you will say we must forget the price tag how can we ? If you bought something for 5 times the value at work your boss would have something to say. Not Carroll's fault but its somebodys fault. As for Carroll very limited player in my view and probably impact player at best worth no more that £10m even when he is playing well whenever that is going to be.

Nonesense I can see you are not a businessman. He did not cost -£15m he cost £35m. Yes Chelsea overpaid for Torres but the right course of action would have been to thank our good luck and then invest wisely not blow it away.

In the aftermath of a good performance and a win, I have to say I find the comments on this thread very downbeat indeed. Come on lads there are no easy wins in the PL so why aren't we celebrating? Seems a very begrudging attitude to me, and it smacks of people searching for opportunities to have a rant against Kenny. Hate to think of what would be said if we had lost or even played badly. Come on lads get a grip, smell the roses and look on the half full side of the glass and stop being so dreadfully gloomy.

Annefield you talk as if everthing is going to plan. Its not we are underperforming and a lot of it is self inflicted. Some perspective no its not all doom and gloom and we have been playing some decent football of late. But this is Liverpool FC we are talking about here the most sucessfull british club even today. I just dont get this acceptance of us being a top 6 club and thats fine maybe we might get into the champions league one day. Not good enough not even by half. Whether this is a generational thing I don't know Liverpool supporters in their 20's would only have known us being a good not great team. Maybe because I rememnber when we were the unsurpassed kings of europe all this is so hard to take. I keep saying this we have had £50m plus transfer investment not productive to the team. Thats serious resources were they doing so we would be in the top 4. Thats not rebuilding thats a self inflicted error.

Well yes Stanley, this is Liverpool FC we are talking about, and I've gathered from your posts that you are a long time supporter of LFC. We've both seen the good days and the bad days, and we both know how difficult it is to rebuild a team and get 5 or 6 new signings to gel, it takes time. I feel you would agree also that signing new players is a risky business, how often have we seen down the years what looked like great signings fail in their new clubs, even Fergie who has a better record than most in this regard, has had his share of failures. Of our the six recent signings the only one that can be considered a possible failure is Andy Carroll and given his performances even saying a possible failure may be overstating it. Even in the 60s, 70s and 80s we had our occasional slump and looking back it seems to me we were a lot more forgiving or should I say understanding of the need for patience when rebuilding and for new players and indeed managers to find their feet, in fact LFC was famous among clubs for its attitude in this regard. Unfortunately this does not appear to be the case today, we appear to glory in our appetite for instant and bought success, the kind of success I feel you might agree, is a hollow achievement with little merit, it's also a fleeting mercenary illusion and doesn't last. In Kenny we have a manager who embodies everything you and I enjoyed and admired about LFC down the years and he is trying to build with people, as far as is possible, who want to be at LFC and share its ethos. I accept everything is not going to plan particularly in the scoring department, but you would agree I think, that in football don't always go to plan, particularly during rebuilding, but we're currently not far off plan, hence my plea for for patience, understanding and time, especially coming off the back of a good performance and a win.

Yes OK Rafa. (got it right this time...Bar will be pleased) I can't argue with much of that, but wouldn't most of us have said that Lucas and Maxi were bad signings for a full year or two before both of them came good? I think they are todays living proof that some, no many footballers need time to find their feet. I know there are exceptions, Suarez is a current example but players are human beings not machines, hence the variations from one to another. We cannot say yet if Carroll is a blatantly bad singing, he may yet come good, why this all fired rush to condemn him Kenny, Comoli, etc? Why don't we just give it a bit of time, why the rush to judgement?

I think we are all agreed the Carroll signing was as shocker not just in him being the wrong player for Liverpool's style well known attitude issues but most of all getting the valuation wrong by a scale that is incomprehensible. Someone somewhere thought the deal was right and it would have had to have been Kenny or are we saying Kenny had no say? Then we have an even worse problem. But I do accept the theme of what you are saying Annefield. On the bright side if we get a run of wins over the Christmas period (doable) and we are knocking on the door of fourth spot and set up for a good second half we might get fourth. Not time to throw the towel in yet. Then the Carroll debacle might subside from fans minds. Conversely if we fall short of expectations (fourth or very very nearly fourth) then the Carroll situation will loom large and could even threaten Kenny’s position. As for the fans not have patience in modern times I think that’s right and is acceptable given modern circumstances. When I first started watching LFC I had a paper round and I could afford to watch LFC every home game I don’t recall it being an issue in terms of the gate money Now it’s £50 a game and society is different now we live in a want it now society. That’s the way it is LFC cannot charge you £50 and expect you to be ambivalent about results or expect fans to live in 1973 mindset era. Kenny needs to get it right reasonably soon or he will go the way all modern football managers go legend status will be neither here or there. The other issue I have which is why I am so exercised on this issue is we DONT have time. The other teams are pulling away and we simply cannot afford 4 / 5 years without champions league it will take Liverpool out of the top echelon probably for decades. The stakes could not be higher which is why putting so much of our recent transfer budget tono end result is such a serious error.

liverpool did play bad yesterday poor performance hanging on at the end ok yes a win is a win but its not great and in the league it hasnt been for a while its hot then cold cup performances are great the league is different .

I think Kenny was a bit blinded by Carroll's "Toshack-ness" that he forgot to consider the rest of the players in the squad, forgot that maybe Toshack himself would fail in this Liverpool side. I think he saw that Carroll would be hot property in the summer, and simply made the strongest move in order to land his man.

Crouch took 19 league games to score, and Carroll has a far better return in that department. The only worrying thing for me is that whenever he plays he's out of position, but whenever he doesn't play we send in millions of crosses with that "if only Carroll was playing!" quality about them. That suggests that he's just not on the same wavelength, because we're now capable of giving him what he wants but he's never their to capitalize on it. That should be something they can fix on the training ground within the next 12-18 months. Until he absolutely fails there is no reason to doubt him so. He's the wrong shaped piece for sure, but that doesn't mean we cannot adjust.

Crouch scvored his first (and second) Liverpool goal against Wigan which was our 14th league fixture of the 2005-06 campaign - and I'm not sure he started every one of the 13 games before it - so it didn't take him 19 league ghames to score

Besides, even before he broke his duck, he showed a lot more potebntial than Carrol has done thus far