KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Time for Kenny to look in the mirror

Disrespectful to tell a man that loves and has done more for LFC, than any of use typing on a keyboard ever will, to look in the mirror. Man has more character and love for this club and will know what needs to be done to get us back winning rather than drawing. (we got shafted by a c*nt in the middle against fulham...and before any one says it Im not talking about Carroll!)

I agree with Bar regarding the "team" aspect of our morale, and that we've generally had the better of games than our opponents. But there comes a time when just looking better isn't enough, and now that we're once again adrift of 5th the time for good looks is gone.

I think we've seen enough from our various new signings and our gameplan as to what our strengths and weaknesses are: Skrtel + Carra is actually a losing combination rather than a steady one, Downing is poor on the right but decent on the left BUT somehow is always forced inside whenever Enrique goes up the touchline [which is every attack], Carroll has too much to do, and while he does well enough at these tasks he ends up contributing little of anything, Suarez has too much to do and ends up shooting wildly when he should pass or passing poorly when he should shoot, Henderson never again on the right, Bellamy-Suarez-Maxi looks dangerous, Adam is performing well in his midfield role but his dead ball delivery has deserted him [particularly corners, one of the reasons for signing him and Carroll], Bellamy's assists generally come from the right but he spends too much time on the left etc etc. So the disappointing part is that for the greater part of games we throw this knowledge out the window and persist with separating Downing and Carroll, putting Henderson on the right, etc.

Surely someone is taking notes?

I'm not questioning Dalglish's character nor his love for the club, nor did I call for his head. But he's made several poor choices this season thus far, and doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. He produces the odd tactical masterclass (vs United, City, and Chelsea [both games] for instance), but then falls back into the old habits of square pegs in round holes. Why can't he just stick with a winning team? I know he's trying to nurture Carroll to become a better player than he was at Newcastle, and that's admirable, but we signed him for 5.5 years as we were often reminded, so it's not necessary to keep pushing him onto the park now when his presence causes us to lose our shape and our cutting edge. Finishing 4th is much more important than the career of Andy Carroll.

Do you want Kenny to look in the mirror or to take notes?!

To look in the mirror and ask himself why he's not reading any notes that have been taken, or why no one is taking notes.

I can relate to both points of view above, Kenny's appointment has been good for LFC and so far he has done a good job considering where we were in terms of position in the table and morale, etc. How many other managers currently managing in the PL can match his record of 4 league titles? I think he deserves respect and a couple of seasons to prove his worth. On the second point of view I also agree we cannot persist with players who are out of form beyond the point of risking our target of a top 4 finish, we are fast reaching that point and therefore I agree it is time to leave Carroll on the bench and pending the signing of a goal poacher, play the in form players such as Maxi, Suarez and Bellamy. I would also stop playing Henderson wide and move Johnson to LM, (pending the signing of a RW) and play Kelly at RB.

Well Bar, I'd say that all his signings are doing from great to good with the exception of the Carroll signing, and even then I'd be loath to call Carroll a flop either at this stage, only time will prove that one way or the other. WE are playing some very good football under Kenny and creating multiple chances, its just the finishing thats the problem. Having said that, I would be critical (reluctantly in the midst of a campaign) regarding kenny's persisting with playing Henderson on the right and starting Carroll so often despite his being out of form. As I've said often before the apparent reluctance to push up when we have the ball, is costing us goals, and this has to be laid at kenny's feet also. So yes, there are issues for Kenny, but again when you contrast the style and quality of football we play now, compared to what we were playing for a long number of years, you would have to admit kenny is doing a good job...but there is room for improvement.

I don't go for the bas luck stuff you make your own luck in sport. Funny how lucky we were in the 1970's and 1980's. I agree Carroll is not the only issue but the lack of impact for such a huge outlay is costly to the team. Not Carroll's fault the fee but the gripe we have is not with Carroll but the idiot at LFC who thought he was worth £15m never mind £35m. Who that person is, is unclear I hope to god Kenny was lightly involved in it because we have a problem with his judgement otherwise.

Kenny demonstrated last season what having a team of people who wanted the club to succeed can achieve. Make no mistake - I think every LFC fan understands that Kenny himself was critical in achieving what we ultimately did last season, and none of my comments intend to suggest otherwise. But that was last season - I see a lot of people here failing to understand this critical point. He may have transformed us then, but we still need to transform further, and it is this latter transformation where we are struggling.

I'm not saying "Dalglish is a bad manager", because that's blatantly false, since he's won the league 4 times and has several FA Cups as a manager. However, if we look at this season in isolation, Dalglish does not have us improving at the rate Benitez did over the same period of time with less money. Perhaps that's down to his or Commolli's player purchases, but to stand still is to die. We've been standing still in our approach to how we will win the game, and that needs to change.

We have been quite flexible in who we put out there, but the fact that Maxi scored twice only to be dropped for the next game twice is worrying, particularly since the player who replaced him did not score or craft an assist on either occasion. I'm not Maxi's biggest fan, but right now it's clear he's an important player for us because he does the one thing that Carroll and Suarez do not do - score goals. Therefore he should be the first name on the team sheet. Playing Maxi on the left immediately means that Downing does not start (because he has been consistently poor on the right), and without Downing or a recognized RM to provide accurate crosses, Carroll may not start either. As I said earlier, the front 3 of Bellamy-Suarez-Maxi essentially picks itself right now, with Henderson in the hole because that's the position he's shown the most aptitude for while wearing Liverpool red. After than you have Adam + 1 in the midfield, Agger-Skrtel, Johnson or Kelly plus Enrique, and Reina. It's not rocket science. But we try to play 4-4-2 every week anyway!

Thundyr you cannot count last season because he took over from Hodgson where for one reason or another the club was in a godawful mess. In any job its easy to sort out a mess the hard bit is developing something yourself. Year zero for Kenny was this August particulary as he has been given funds to build his team.