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Originally Posted By: redordead13
Ok, everyone is forgetting an important factor regarding the purchase that made his price tage reach that point, namely the fact that he was a panic buy on deadline day to replace our star forward. In the panic that was going on in all aspects of the club, the club needed to make a big move to replace Torres to save face and instill some impression of control and hope, even if that move was a huge gambe. We didn't have time to scout out a deal, and Newcastle knew that we were up against a wall and would pay whatever they asked. Under normal circumstances we might not even have bought him at all, and if we would have, it would have been at something like 10-15 million. We would have overpaid no matter who we would have bought that window.


No1 is forgetting that fact, but it's largely irrelevant. Yes there are various reasons why we overpaid for him, but we still overpaid for him. Knowing the reasons doesn't make the disappointment thus far any less. If the buy turns out to be a dud (and believe me I am not saying that he will) then just because it was a panic buy doesn't make it any less of a dud. Irrelevant in the context of the debate.

Originally Posted By: thundyr
We paid over the odds for him on the transfer fee, but I'm confident that the savings made on his salary offset that to a large degree.


Genuine question mate, not being sarcastic or disagreeing, just wondering how will we be saving on his salary?

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Originally Posted By: Armitage
I'm veering toward the opinon of stanley - this kind of player won't 'improve' (other than his fitness/ psychological side) Would never say he is not a top quality player though he has proved it before coming to lfc even at a young age- but if everyone was beiong honest on here who would you chooose now him or a 40 million export?


Armi, I think you know my answer to that question. Obviously I would have prefered someone who would deliver the goods straight away, but I see promise in the lad. I think he could turn into a Drogba type player. He has the physical predesposition and with some work on his technique and fitness i think we could see a vast improvement. Lets not forget that strikers peak between the ages of 26-31. Andy is not fullfilling the role he was brought in for, but I dont think that he should be discarded just yet. I believe he will be a good aquisition by the club....

Last edited by Marko2709; 29/11/11 08:50 PM.

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I have a feeling that part of the decision to buy Carroll was to avoid the twin perceptions that we are a selling club and that the owners wanted the money as part payment on their investment. After all, we complain about Carroll not being good enough, but I'd rather hear warranted criticism than snide comments about where the money went; the former is fairly normal because we'll always find something to complain about, but the latter actively undermines the club and the people in it.

I think they took an "educated" gamble, one that thus far has not born fruit. Hopefully it will, but even if it doesn't I'm not convinced the alternatives would necessarily stand us in greater stead. Don't forget that no one knew how good Suarez would be, a salient point that invalidates a lot of speculation about players we could have wasted our time chasing on the deadline day. We needed a guy, and we made sure we got a guy who showed more than a little promise. I just can't see how we stand worse with Carroll rather than 35m, particularly since most of the arguments against him revolve around buying players who didn't have a great chance of joining LFC (then or now!) or buying players who are not strikers given the hindsight of Suarez's brilliance last season. And anyway, who is to say these potential replacements would not also have struggled?

Last edited by thundyr; 29/11/11 08:51 PM.
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Originally Posted By: thundyr
I have a feeling that part of the decision to buy Carroll was to avoid the twin perceptions that we are a selling club and that the owners wanted the money as part payment on their investment. After all, we complain about Carroll not being good enough, but I'd rather hear warranted criticism than snide comments about where the money went; the former is fairly normal because we'll always find something to complain about, but the latter actively undermines the club and the people in it.

I think they took an "educated" gamble, one that thus far has not born fruit. Hopefully it will, but even if it doesn't I'm not convinced the alternatives would necessarily stand us in greater stead. Don't forget that no one knew how good Suarez would be, a salient point that invalidates a lot of speculation about players we could have wasted our time chasing on the deadline day. We needed a guy, and we made sure we got a guy who showed more than a little promise. I just can't see how we stand worse with Carroll rather than 35m, particularly since most of the arguments against him revolve around buying players who didn't have a great chance of joining LFC (then or now!) or buying players who are not strikers given the hindsight of Suarez's brilliance last season. And anyway, who is to say these potential replacements would not also have struggled?


Good post there Thundyr, completely in agreement with you. Now lets go and cheer Andy on to get a hat-trick tonight!


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Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Genuine question mate, not being sarcastic or disagreeing, just wondering how will we be saving on his salary?


I'm fairly sure that Carroll is not on the same wages as any other top line forward in the 35m category, including whatever we were paying Torres. If he's earning even 50k a week less that's a saving of 13m over the course of his contract, never mind comparing his humble salary with that of Aguero.

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Originally Posted By: Marko2709
Originally Posted By: thundyr
I have a feeling that part of the decision to buy Carroll was to avoid the twin perceptions that we are a selling club and that the owners wanted the money as part payment on their investment. After all, we complain about Carroll not being good enough, but I'd rather hear warranted criticism than snide comments about where the money went; the former is fairly normal because we'll always find something to complain about, but the latter actively undermines the club and the people in it.

I think they took an "educated" gamble, one that thus far has not born fruit. Hopefully it will, but even if it doesn't I'm not convinced the alternatives would necessarily stand us in greater stead. Don't forget that no one knew how good Suarez would be, a salient point that invalidates a lot of speculation about players we could have wasted our time chasing on the deadline day. We needed a guy, and we made sure we got a guy who showed more than a little promise. I just can't see how we stand worse with Carroll rather than 35m, particularly since most of the arguments against him revolve around buying players who didn't have a great chance of joining LFC (then or now!) or buying players who are not strikers given the hindsight of Suarez's brilliance last season. And anyway, who is to say these potential replacements would not also have struggled?


Good post there Thundyr, completely in agreement with you. Now lets go and cheer Andy on to get a hat-trick tonight!


agree.


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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Well your logic would work well if our critera was the comments on Newcastle fans blog from 18 months ago. But life is a bitch and what our criteria actually is the lads performances in an LFC shirt which apart from the odd thing have been non existent and he has been here for a year now. Yes we should get behind him and encourage which I think the Liverpool fans have done we have been very patient. But at the end of the day no club pays our £35m for no end product not even Manchester City. What worries me is I have not seen anything at all that would encourge me. Sometimes you can see the talent but its not coming off for the player but with this guy he barely looks a professional footballer some times.

Its not april fools for another 5 months??


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Originally Posted By: Marko2709
i still don't agree. yes Andy is not showing that he is worth 35 mil at the moment, but in a years time he will be. Whetehr we can afford to wait that long is another question. Also it is far from true that clubs don't pay such sums of money for an unfinished product...Damiao has had a price tag of 130 million dollars put on his head, bloody hell he is 22. The people are paying for the future as well as the marketing value of the player. ANDY CARROLL WILL COME RIGHT! His lack of goals could very well be down to the lack of quality crosses coming in from the flanks..."D

100% agree


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Great addition to the team, hope he plays tonight. It's strange but sometimes it feels like people on here are going into their own backpockets. 'We paid over the odds for him'. Oh ye mate how much did ye pay ? wipes me out how fans think the finances has anything to do with them! I couldn't give a flying fu*k what he costs or anyone else for that matter along as we are putting a team together that can take us forward.

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The ramblings of a madman! Of course his fee is our business!!!! Unless LFC have a bottomless pit of money then we must make every penny count. The only way Carroll will be one day worth £35m is if the transfer market goes even more cray to the extent that £35m buys you a donkey.

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