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Joined: Jun 2009
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1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
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Rafa was something of a curious bird. Clearly our most successful manager since the start of the Premier League (in terms of trophies [4 in his first 2 seasons, including no. 5, a second CL final, and a record number of EPL points to boot], game win %, regular qualification for the CL etc), yet he could only win over half the fans while somehow antagonizing the other half.
There are only 3 kinds of football. Beautiful football, effective football, and bad football. For the most part he had us playing effective football, which is difficult to elevate into the beautiful, and that somehow wasn't good enough. He made us defensively sound, even though he used the much-maligned zonal marking system to achieve it. He set a ridiculous number of club records, along the way elevating several good players into the realm of the supreme: Reina, Torres, Alonso, Carragher, Gerrard. I name the last two because he took them that step further - getting the former back into international football, and the latter permanently onto the shortlist of most feared midfielder and captain in Europe.
He was certainly arrogant, but most people seem to fail to understand that those with a winning mentality are arrogant as a side-effect; they are used to winning their way, so those who are not winning should shut up and listen. I would say that his inability to deal with the rifts he created in his squad when he marginalized players who did not show the necessary tactical discipline was his greatest flaw, and ultimately cost him his job and "our" CL spot (a CL spot that in all honesty had never really been "ours" prior to his arrival). He also revitalized the Academy. Above all he took absolutely no cr*p from Fergie, he really *got* the club, and as a result he'll always be close to the hearts of a large section of the supporters.
I'm not really going to go into "net spend" and his purchases after Hicks and Gillett bought the club, nor will I touch upon the supposed hanging of washing in public. All I will say is that one needs to remember that our erstwhile owners brought this upon the club, and while Rafa could have conducted himself better during those three seasons, he was working under conditions that sunk a certain highly-regarded manager who may yet manage England in a matter of months. Once one takes into account what those two did to the club, one might understand that we saw a dark side to Rafa's nature that under normal conditions would most likely never have surfaced. But I do not want to just gloss over this period, for it remains a black spot on his record, but too many people accuse him alone when in many cases he was simply the messenger. to read that you would think he was badly treated , well klets et a few things right for starters ok he won the CL but since the PL started he has not been the most successful manager houllier won more and also finished 2nd wiining 2 league cups , one uefa cup, one F.A.Cup , community shield and uefa super cup , plus liverpool qualifing for the CL , as for buying alonso ,reina etc etc put in that record transfer dossena , plus voronin , ngog , josemi, kromkamp to name a few with still big money flop aquilani still a liverpool player plus loads of young foreign players the club have paid money for to see them leave after they never kicked a ball for the club at a loss , ok the CL gave him a lot of time and rightly so but the carte blanche he has had is too much and to just throw all the clubs woes at the feet of hicks and gillett or roy hodgson , or rick parry and not include benitez is just blind faith and shortsighted , my point about benitez is if he is such an amazing coach then why didnt he just leave and like 99.9% of all football people just go elsewhere to ply there trade if it was so bad at liverpool , because some of us see it but the blind faithers dont want to believe it , as i say he gets massive credit for 2005 and 2006 but he should also get be looked at as well without the rose tinited glasses on and looked at in the real world instead of this fantasy world people think he is in .
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Moderator
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Moderator
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Anyone ever seen a pair of rose tinted glasses?
"Romance has broke down
This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Under 18 Player
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to read that you would think he was badly treated , well klets et a few things right for starters ok he won the CL but since the PL started he has not been the most successful manager houllier won more and also finished 2nd wiining 2 league cups , one uefa cup, one F.A.Cup , community shield and uefa super cup , plus liverpool qualifing for the CL ,
Again your dislike (or hatred) of Rafa is making you say inaccurate things In the six seasons he was here, Houllier got us into the Champions League twice, whereas Rafa manahged it every season apart from his last Our 2 highest pts tally ever in the Prenier League were both under Rafa - with pt tallies that would have won it in the 90s And yes Houllier won two Carling Cups - but I'd take the Champions League (and a second final) anyday over that The other trophies - if you can call them that - the Super Cup, Charity Shield etc don't really count
as for buying alonso ,reina etc etc put in that record transfer dossena , plus voronin , ngog , josemi, kromkamp to name a few with still big money flop aquilani
You might want to ask yourself how money these flops cost Josemi barely cost £2m, N'Gog was snapped up for £1.5m, Voronin cost us nothing Even the likes of Dossena and Morientes were brought in for as fraction of the money Comoli and Daglish look to have wasted on similarly average players this summer I know you won't respond - you never do - but to have a pop at Rafa who assembled a far superior team to what we currently have under the so-called messiah, makes no sense and paints you as a misguided, ungrateful and slightly dim person - which, I hasten to add, I'm sure you're not
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
The post said 4 trophies for benitez so if the super cup and community shield is good enough for him its good enough for houllier
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Actually the post said, "4 in his first 2 seasons". But let's not split hairs, shall we?
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Oh, and as for "big money flop Aquilani", remember that Rafa was under orders to only do deals with clubs who owed us money. You *do* remember that, right? I mean, given a choice of any midfielder in Europe why would you get an injured player from Roma otherwise?
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 17,444 |
Oh, and as for "big money flop Aquilani", remember that Rafa was under orders to only do deals with clubs who owed us money. You *do* remember that, right? I mean, given a choice of any midfielder in Europe why would you get an injured player from Roma otherwise? oh dear !!!!!
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
Rafa is a far better manager than Dalglish. The only reason he is not employed and why he will never be a Liverpool manager is because he is trouble. His track record stands scrutiny Dalglish does not. The period 1987 to 1991 for Liverpool and the short period with Blackburn were both false situations. In the period 1987 to 1988 he was very much guided by the very well oiled Liverpool backroom and he took over from a very high base. Also Liverpool back then relative to almost all the rest of the first division had the money and resources there were few who could match us. One thing I will say for Dalglish was he did build (in my view) our finest ever team in 1988. But he had the money the Liverpool infrastructure and bought two established stars in Barnes and Beardsley but I won’t take anything away he did well there. Then the team crashed and burned and Dalglish had no idea how to address it and that was the first step in our fall from grace. The period under Blackburn was false it was the first club ever to have megabucks thrown at it and he got lucky with Shearer and Sutton. Again it was short lived and crashed and burned. Other than those two cameos Dalglish track record is not one of sustained success. Compare that to what Rafa did at Valencia and Liverpool. Maybe I am wrong I very much hope so but I fear it will all end in tears for the messiah’s second reign.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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thundyr
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thundyr
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ok the CL gave him a lot of time and rightly so but the carte blanche he has had is too much and to just throw all the clubs woes at the feet of hicks and gillett or roy hodgson , or rick parry and not include benitez is just blind faith and shortsighted I disagree that Benitez had "carte blanche", particularly after the club changed hands. Do you even remember him complaining about Christian Purslow? Even if he controlled everything, well, what was it Shankly said again? "The manager makes the decisions. The owner of the club is only there to sign the cheques." So really, what would you have preferred? Perhaps Rafa had the power that Commolli and Dalglish seem to have now prior to H&G, but their takeover is the watershed between us winning things and not winning things. I mean, really - which season did we win our last trophy, and which season was their first in charge? my point about benitez is if he is such an amazing coach then why didnt he just leave and like 99.9% of all football people just go elsewhere to ply there trade if it was so bad at liverpool Because he *got* the club. He wasn't interested in abandoning ship. He wanted what the fans wanted - to be a force in Europe, to win the league - but he couldn't do it living off scraps. Do you really think he wanted to buy Dossena over half a dozen other, more talented players who would cost more money than he could afford to raise by gutting his squad further under H&G's "sell-to-buy" policy? Wait. I said I wasn't going to go into net spend. as i say he gets massive credit for 2005 and 2006 but he should also get be looked at as well without the rose tinited glasses on and looked at in the real world instead of this fantasy world people think he is in . And I say people should take a closer look at what changed after 2006 rather than blindly accusing a successful manager.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
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Rafa is a far better manager than Dalglish. The only reason he is not employed and why he will never be a Liverpool manager is because he is trouble.
In a nutshell, I think that's it But I do object to the amount of Liverpool fans willing to believe the back pages of The Sun - who ever since Rafa's spat with Ferguson - had it in for Rafa, like most of the other newspapers who worship the Scot - out of a combination of respect but mainly fear - showing these scumbag reporters for the complete and utter pussies they are And what I find staggering is that people can't see that Rafa's team - even the one of 2005-06, which he hadn't even half bulit at that stage - was far better than the current one, which has been assembled at a staggering cost considering it's overall lack of quality I'd take Alonso, Luis Garcia, Sissoko and Crouch over Adam, Henderson, Downing and Carroll any day of the week and I'm utterly astounded that most people on here wouldn't Funny that Torres - who was said to have an uneasy relationship with Rafa - should single him out for praise in his latest batch of lies before Sunday's clash
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