KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Fergie Respect

'...he deserves our respect for what he has achieved...'

'... You have to respect him for his success...'

'..he will be missed as a manager...'

'...the greatest manager to be involved in english football , he has suppassed shankly,busby,paisley,nicholson who are all greats themselves...'

I hear what those with the above sentiments are saying but I respectfully but strongly disagree.

If we're talking about just a trophy count then perhaps yes. But football is surely about more than just recognising players and teams as 'great' just because they win things?

The Sun is the biggest selling daily paper and has been for years the NOTW was the best selling sunday paper. Murdoch has destroyed competition wherever he has gone and established himself as a leading international media moghul not just in the UK. I still wouldn't acknowledge them or him as 'great'. People might say ' oh, you might not like what they do or how they do it but you have to admit that they're great because they got to the top and stayed there for so long'. [oops].

There are so many examples of world leaders, industrialists, businessman who have got to the top, held on to power for years or made millions/billions. I don't susbscribe to the view that we all have to acknowledge that they're great.

It's the same with Fergie. I don't wish him ill health or anything like that. But his status as 'great' is I believe heavily qualified if not disputed.

Shankly is a difficult example because one can always be accused of bias. However, has anyone ever come across anyone who disputes that Shankly was a 'great' manager. All the anecdotes you hear about him are to do with the strength of his character, his whit, his humour or how humble he was. It's not just his trophy count.

An example in Boxing would be Muhhammed Ali. I believe he is undisputed as 'great' and as even 'the greatest'.

Fergie I'm afraid is not undisputed. Mourinho is heading for ths ame category. They're winners - but they way they go about things sometimes let themselves and football down.

In a nutshell:

Shankly 'Great' - undisputed FACT
Ali 'Great' - undisputed FACT
Fergie 'Great' - a matter of opinion. you have to start defining what you mean by great and/or qualifying it.

Yep have to agree with this, greatest manager the game has had, dont think he or his achievements will be will ever be overtook either given nobody stays that long in the job anymore.

History will show in writing the trophy wins thats for sure,compared to bacon, shankly won little in those stakes but for me the memory of shankly will always be one of a man who knew how to be humble,had a rapour with the fans and the city,bacon will never be remembered for that,except the usual bootlickers of course who we will all see crawling around this weekend groveling about that man,in my opinion its because they were scared of him not because of his Aura and wisdom.he is an arrogant little man who lets face it had a 25 year run at it unlike Shankly and need i say Paisley. if they were young enough to stay that long who knows what they would have won.

I find it hard to say this because I hated the man with a vengence for many years. But only the most deluded liverpool fan will deny respect for what he was achieved. In my opinion he is the best manager in UK history there are contenders such as Clough, Paisley, Shankly but no one has built so many sucessfull teams over such a duration.

I'm afraid some of us will just have to agree to disagree. And I don't consider myself deluded.

Chairman Mao ruled China for 27 odd years. He is regarded as having laid the foundations for the super-power that China is today. But his methods were controversial to say the least and he caused the deaths of so many people. Should I respect him for his achievments nonetheless?

For me, Fergie has too many black marks against him to maintain my respect. The other managers you mentioned either didn't have the opportunity or decided not to stick around for so long. That shouldn't count against them. If that's the criteria then Fergies in a one horse race - why even bother to mention the others?

Furthermore, Fergie has been at the richest club in England (even when we were more successful) and has benefited from the premier league money boom - the other managers didn't have these luxuries.

Shankly took the club from the 2nd Division to being a European power. 1959 to 1974 is before my time but I'm sure he built at least two good teams, perhaps three. Clough won the league with two unfashionable clubs and then took Forest to back to back European Cups. That's just unbelievable, especially when they came from nowhere and they weren't the richest or most pwerful club in the country.

So the question as to who's the greatest is definitely arguable and will always remain a matter of opinion.

As to whether Fergie deserves respect, this also remains a matter of opinion. Which is the point I made earlier. With some people who have achieved things in any field, the opinion of their status is not so divided and is pretty much undisputed. Others achieve but in a way that creates controversy and divides opinion. I put Fergie firmly in the latter category.

It matters to me what the man stands for, and no amount of trophies will make me respect him from what iv seen,Ive never seen him respect us for what we have achieved hes only ever said through gritted teeth his main aim in life was to knock us off our perch! why didn't he simply say Liverpool have achieved so much that i would find it an achievement to overtake their great records!?its because he has no respect for us, that man hates LFC! Acknowledging he has a cabinet full of trophies is one thing but it doesn't mean i have to respect him.if that makes me deluded then i'm happy with it!.

Maybe he's the best manager ever. I dont really care. He's a disgrace of a human-being and I [oops] hate him.

I have actually had some dealings with him he is a really nice down to earth guy. His wife though is a real horror Lady Ferguson Govan housewife come good and she likes to be fawned over by the serfs.

Stanley! you disappoint me,aren't all Govan residents like Rab and Mary then? Thats where they come from isnt it?