KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum What if Chelsea come for Suarez next year ....

Do you look at there sqaud and think they really are much better than us? Because i really don't.

If they can win the league this season... with CL

Then Liverpool certainly can without CL.

Where to start?

Mr. High Class over here posts a one-line reply dripping with opinion, and when he reads an actual argument in responds gets his back up? Your follow-up "argument" is filled with very little other than o"jumping on a poster", and is far from the "intelligent argument" you accuse me of lacking.

Pot: (to kettle) "You are black."

I will say it again in simple language if you prefer not being called an idiot: "It is a far from "safe assumption" that Suarez would go to Chelsea".

From your rather dim view of the world, Chelsea is the ultimate destination in the premier league, when quite frankly it's not. The "safer assumption" would be that he'd join Manchester City, for a start, since they have the power to outbid Abramovich. But let's not split hairs about the validity of your opinion, shall we? After all, if you can't see that Chelsea is not the only club capable of affording whatever astronomical fee we'd put on Suarez, then how can anything else you say be taken seriously?

I'll let you deal with that nugget while you calm the f*k down.

You're putting a lot of words into the mouth of Suarez there, lad, so let's all take a step back, shall we? Part of my argument was that Suarez would not jump ship if we're in the Champions' League. Why do I say that? Not because of his loyalty, but because he will see that his ambition is matched by that of his club. Torres left because he felt his ambition was NOT matched by his club. Rather different situations, though the arguments I'm seeing here don't take that into consideration, of course, because to do so would defeat the argument.

This has nothing to do with which club is "bigger" and so on, but whether or not the player thinks he can achieve what he wants with the club that he is at. I SPECIFICALLY stated that if we failed to make the CL places then I would not be surprised if he left were a better offer to come along.

Don't think Suarez didn't know Liverpool was in a bad way when he signed (we were 9th in the league!). Don't think he's so stupid that he won't recognize that we would have made massive strides to get into the top 4, and that the manager and the owners are part of that, and they all want more. In those circumstances Suarez "might possibly" move to a club that is better positioned to win the league or the CL, but you don't know that he considers Villas Boas or Mancini as managers more able than King Kenny.

But yes, every man has his price. Man United sold Ronaldo for 80m. Look how badly they've done since. If Suarez DOES go then so what? We use the money from the astronomical fee to buy the rest of the missing parts of our squad and move on.

So. There's no certainty Chelsea will bid an outrageous price for Suarez. There's no certainty that he would want such a move should such a bid be made. There's no certainty FSG/Dalglish would even allow them to make a bid. And after all that there's no certainty that him leaving would be to our detriment in the long term. And you all have the gall to attack me when your argument (if it can be called such) is UTTERLY BASELESS?

I am perfectly calm, but comments like that actually make you the hypocrite when suggesting I go after the poster rather than the post. Please try to stay on topic about the discussion at hand like a grown up. Otherwise there is no sense in having a discussion at all and I will just let you have the last word as evidently that is all you seem to care about.
A more important point, at no point did I say Chelsea was the be all and end all, check through my posts, at absolutely no point have I said that. You have made that up completely and used it to attack my argument. I fully agree man city is another one of those clubs that fall into the category of being able to afford the silly price tag of suarez we would place on him. The discussion was brought up about chelsea, so I spoke about chelsea in relation to us with regards to do I think suarez would go to them. Sticking to discussion is something you should learn.
Another little bit of make believe you have dreamt up to help yourself is that I criticised anyone for having an opinion? Yes my comment smacked of opinions because it is my opinion! That is what a forum is all about.
Lastly it is you who appears to need a bit of chill out time, swearing, calling people idiots. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in the adult world mate. You must learn to deal with it, and if you want to discuss, try to discuss what has actually been said rather than making stuff up.

Got him bang to rights there

It has not been explicitly stated that they are in consideration but you should have been able to work it out yourself. We have spoken about title winning sides. If suarez was looking for immediate success which is not beyond the realms of possibility he might look at chelsea and what they have achieved and prefer. That is all I've said so the argument is definitely not defeated by that, to think that it has is way beyond just over simplification of the argument.


As already stated, the umbrella term of bigger was used to mean what said player can achieve (i.e. where he thinks he can achieve the most) therefore in that sense it has everything to do with the 'bigger' club as was defined earlier (a simple definition that does not take everything account, just a quick way to talk about the club he thinks he can achieve the most at). I am fully aware you specifically stated it and have not suggested otherwise. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that Suarez would want more than just a champions league place though is it? So if he perceives other clubs are more likely to win it then he might wish to go there is all that is being said. No definites just musings. Not hard to grasp.


I never even spoke about what suarez might think of kenny as opposed to others. But there is a lot more than just who the manager is that determines these things so a fairly moot point. Liverpool were 9th yes, but still had some great players, would have told suarez of the ambition you speak of, and would be paying him a lot more money, therefore Liverpool were still a step up from Ajax (and incidentally, he fell out with a number of the clubs officials over them failing to back him up after the bite incident).



I think it has been spcifically stated that if suarez was to move on for an astronomical fee we would cope. No one suggested otherwise, so I don't know why you are pretending that someone has said something to the contrary.


My argument would be utterly baseless if it was what you outlined. But it isn't. You have fabricated an argument that is easy to attack loosely based on mine. I don't know if that is through choice because you can't handle a proper discussion when someone disagrees with you as does seem to be a trait of yours, or if you honestly have just misunderstood what has been simply stated by me. But all I have said to you, is that the way you have arrogantly put people down like you are the be all and end all when actually you have a massive tendancy to isolate small points, or in fact make stuff up to support your own argument, whilst is a clever method when debating if your goal is simply to win an argument, is pointless in a forum that is for discussion. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that suarez would look at chelsea and think, more money, they spend more money, they have a more glamarous recent history, I am going to jump ship (even if we were in the champions league). I havn't once said he would definitely do that. Just said it is not beyond the realms of possibility, that is in no way baseless. Stop being so arrogant.

Let's start here then. No justification for your "argument". I've already demonstrated that it's not a "safe assumption"; it's tenuous supposition at best, particularly since you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what motivates Suarez, nor do you have ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER where Liverpool and Chelsea will finish in the league this season. You're GUESSING! You're making an argument for Suarez based ENTIRELY upon your jaded view of the league. You have no leg to stand on, yet consider me incapable of making an intelligent argument?

Moving on...


I'm sorry, I must have strayed from the topic after you jumped down my throat for pointing out how baseless your opinion is. I'll leave that for others next time, shall I?



Okay, fair enough about Chelsea specifically, though you sure did a good job of talking them up like they're the best in business when they're a distant 3rd best in England. It still doesn't make it a "safe assumption" that he would go to them. You're far too willing to paint everyone with the same brush, and just as willing to assume that the status quo will not change between now and the end of the season.



No, you've not criticized me specifically for for having an opinion, but you might want to go back and read your own posts a bit to see how you arrogantly dismiss anyone else for disagreeing with yours. Pot to kettle again, mate.



That's really mature, mate. Like I said in the above paragraph - you might want to read your own posts a bit to see how you arrogantly dismiss anyone for disagreeing with your opinion.

I'm chilled, fyi. Just finding it amusing seeing someone pulled up for not carefully considering his opinion. Thus far you've not offered a single scrap of evidence to suggest Suarez leaving to Chelsea is a "safe assumption", and your "defense" has been to change the subject entirely.

I can't be bothered to set it out as neatly as you have but to tackle some of the key things you have said. I have not once changed the subject. You are making things up again. More than just me has noticed that about you now. I do not dismiss others opinions out of hand, as you do, as someone else coined, your arrogance is beyond belief as you do that. I have not talked chelsea up to be the be all and end all, you have made that up again. They are as you say, quite clearly a distant 3rd behind the 2 manchester clubs on the evidence of the 3 games this season. And yes who knows what the table will look like at the end of the season, but I can't go on that can I because I'm not a psychic, I have to look at what chelsea have actually done in the last few years. Looking at it, as I have said, they are ahead of Liverpool, but not saying that won't change. Never said anything like that. You really must stop putting words into people's mouths. I didn't jump down your throat anymore than u did mine, in fact I did less so and thought your arrogance in banding the term idiotic about should be questioned, so don't through a hissy fit about it.

I see your points, and am not going to argue further over them. In truth, perhaps some of the stuff I wrote in that post was not actually directed at the one I quoted - more your follow up to bigredkop's post considering he's added entirely too little to the discussion for someone to have played such a major part in it.

The "bigger club" idea gets bandied about quite a bit, and most people have their own particular interpretation of what it means. For example, I do not feel that Chelsea is a "bigger" club, because they have a smaller fan-base, and have not been more successful than Liverpool even in the last ten years outside actually winning the league. "Bigger" does not equate with "has a larger transfer budget". After all, they ran at a 70m pound loss last year, PRIOR to spending another 70m in the January window.

I can see how some players might view Chelsea as a better destination at present, but that might no longer be true at the end of the season. And the topic clearly states "next year". Suarez might have been looking for a way out of Ajax, but that doesn't imply he'll be looking for a way out of Liverpool.

One point you have put well though, truly a diamond in the rough of your post of attacking people by putting words in their mouth and isolating small points, expanding upon them just to try and win an argument (as someone described perfectly), is that I may perhaps be too willing to tar suarez with the same brush as many other players who move for perceived more immediate glory. That is a fair point as I do not know suarez at all. You are quite right I am assuming him to be, in relation to this, to have the mentality of most modern footballers. I could be wrong and he could be completely different, but I am a gambling man and the odds are in my favour.