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Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
The UK has officially lost its mind.



Correction nothing wrong with uk most are fed up to the back teeth of brexit most are not like me. However the politicians and the Westminster bubble are a different story. A lot of gross overreacting going on and some thinking they are way more important than they are. It's worth reminding our political class they work for the people and the nation


Yeah, I will rephrase that. The UK's politicians have officially lost their minds.

Good luck with that reminder Stan.


3 choices then, this deal, no deal or no Brexit. Sounds like 3 good choices for a new referendum over 2 rounds if no absolute majority after 1st round. Total democracy, I'm sure all true democrats would agree.

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We’ve no time for anything like that Vish unless we can an extension. Plus I’d argue that it’s a touch off. I know we now know what we can get, what we are voting for. But the first vote was democratic and has to stand really or where does that leave democracy in this country?

What a mess they’ve put us in!

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Originally Posted By wilkij1975
We’ve no time for anything like that Vish unless we can an extension. Plus I’d argue that it’s a touch off. I know we now know what we can get, what we are voting for. But the first vote was democratic and has to stand really or where does that leave democracy in this country?

What a mess they’ve put us in!


I am not sure why it won't be democracy as the terms and therefore choices would be very clear for everybody, no? I followed the pre-referendum debates a lot of what the Brexiters promised were not obtained from the EU, didn't they say there would be 357m daily available for the NHS, or the EU would beg to get a deal, the easiest negotiations ever etc? Now the choices are clear. And there is definitely time to organise before 29th March as all 3 options are on the table and all the debates have taken place already, how difficult can it be to organise? The government could always prepare for a no deal (if at all possible) in parallel.

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I don’t disagree with that. I’m just a little uncomfortable having another vote. If it plays out the we then stay in the EU what then for those who originally voted out? They’ll want another vote and on it will go, possibly.

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Originally Posted By wilkij1975
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just a little uncomfortable having another vote. If it plays out the we then stay in the EU what then for those who originally voted out? They’ll want another vote and on it will go, possibly.


Not really as now they know the alternatives, maybe they would wish to change their views. They can still vote leave by voting either no deal or the negotiated deal, they just have more information. What's the option if your MPs do not back the deal, do you think all Brexiters would like a no deal?

Last edited by TiredReds; 16/11/18 10:35 AM.
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Yeah perhaps it might be the best way now. Seems like the politicians can’t agree so why not let us have our say? It does and will effect us more than them.

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I don't agree with another referendum but leave that aside for now. To hold another referendum would require an act of parliment repealing the withdrawal act and it would need a majority in parliment. It would also now require all 27 eu member states to agree. There is also legal debate about whether art 50 can be stopped or may face legal challenge but let's assume not. Let's assume we did all that in the next two months say and legally it works. The question is for what reason would we ask the EU to extend art 50? For more negotiations ? Here's the rub the EU have made it clear there will be no more negotiations the deal is the deal so that request is likely to be rejected. For another referendum yes that would be accepted likely. However that has to occur in the next four months where is no majority in parliment or the country for another vote. So unless I am missing something another vote is an impossibility. So it's deal or no deal. Although I really don't like the deal my opinion is it should be approved (perhaps with tweaks) although I am swinging between the two options


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I don't agree with another referendum but leave that aside for now. To hold another referendum would require an act of parliment repealing the withdrawal act and it would need a majority in parliment. It would also now require all 27 eu member states to agree. There is also legal debate about whether art 50 can be stopped or may face legal challenge but let's assume not. Let's assume we did all that in the next two months say and legally it works. The question is for what reason would we ask the EU to extend art 50? For more negotiations ? Here's the rub the EU have made it clear there will be no more negotiations the deal is the deal so that request is likely to be rejected. For another referendum yes that would be accepted likely. However that has to occur in the next four months where is no majority in parliment or the country for another vote. So unless I am missing something another vote is an impossibility. So it's deal or no deal. Although I really don't like the deal my opinion is it should be approved (perhaps with tweaks) although I am swinging between the two options


I am not sure to understand, let's say the MPs do not vote for this deal, don't you think there will be a majority who would vote for another referendum?

You don't need the EUs approval for another referendum as this is an internal matter, you don't need the EUs approval for a no deal neither nor the current deal, assuming it will be ratified by the EU. You would only need the EUs approval for a no Brexit which they have said, they will welcome.

So the question is, whether you can practically have a new referendum and a no brexit approved by your MPs before the 28th of March? I don't know if that is possible.

However, there can be another twist, let's say there is a no deal because your MPs do not vote the negotiated deal, you could have a referendum after the 29th of March to get back in the EU, which I don't think will be an issue from the EUs side, in fact, they would be very happy as it will be proven to everybody that life is too tough outside the EU without a deal.

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Maybe the vote should be to accept the deal or for a no deal and not include staying in as an option? It seems that our politicians are more interested in playing politics with this than the good of the country so maybe we should have our say on the deal?

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Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Maybe the vote should be to accept the deal or for a no deal and not include staying in as an option? It seems that our politicians are more interested in playing politics with this than the good of the country so maybe we should have our say on the deal?


I can't see any other option if this deal is not voted, else it's no deal. If the MPs cannot decide, then it has to be the people

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