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Syria was definitely peaceful before the world powers decided to give them democracy. a beautiful piece of land.burnt n destroyed now.none of anyones fooking business what kind of democracy is there or what is dictator doing. people were in peace n they had food. wernt being bombed.


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Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My point about the perpetrator of the attack on the mosque in Finsbury Park is he is not backed by a global terrorist organisation that has the entire world on alert if you can't see the difference between that and Islamic terrorism then there is no hope. And shaggy exactly what is your solution in Iraq and Syria (bear in mind we are only providing air support and were invited by these sovereign nations) what's it you want the international coalition to dissolve and Both these countries to fall to ISIS? And I would like to see your source of stats please


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...r-a7663881.html

A murderer is a murderer and there background is of no consequence to their victims. Whether you are acting a lone wolf or part of a dedicated terrorist organisation it doesn't mask the fact that both groups are seeking the same outcome - to murder innocent civilians.

As regards Syria and Iraq we shouldn't have been there in the first place. We created ISIS whether we want to admit it or not and before we stuck our noses in both countries had a form of stability.

Unfortunately we cannot put the genie back in the bottle and we are now faced with a terror threat unlike no other. But if you think what is going on there is not linked to what is going on in Europe and elsewhere then you need your head looked.

Here's some more grim reading Stan.

http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-war-civilian-deaths-syria-577353


In what way was Syria stable when we got involved? Or by stable do you mean some nut job dictator slaughtering his people who wanted change and destroying everything stable?


Those wanting democratic change armed themselves initially to defend themselves and the situation descended into a sectarian civil war. The coalition then became involved as did Russia and ISIS seized a foothold then. We are now in a situation where I don't think the coalition even knows who they are fighting for and against on any given day.

As is the case in any civil war, both sides have plenty to answer for. Tell me this wilki, do you know why we went in, do you knoŵ which side we are on? Almost 500,000 people have died in that conflict and it is far from over. I am not for one second blaming the coalition for that figure but we need to have a clear goal and an even clearer exit strategy when we get involved in these conflicts.

We have to stop shooting from the hip and start thinking about the bigger picture. We need statesmen and diplomats, not war mongerers.


Unless you are talking about bombing ISIS positions, Syria is a typical example where the West didn't want to get involved at least directly, despite the rebels expecting the West to support them against Assad. It changed to some extent when Russia decided to bomb the rebels and Assad using chemical weapons. I am not sure to understand what the West should have done there.

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Originally Posted By Muj
Syria was definitely peaceful before the world powers decided to give them democracy. a beautiful piece of land.burnt n destroyed now.none of anyones fooking business what kind of democracy is there or what is dictator doing. people were in peace n they had food. wernt being bombed.


No world power decided to give them democracy, it all began with the Arab spring in Tunisia with the people uprisung wanting democracy. I am not sure why you say world powers wanted democracy in Syria. In fact it is easier to blame the West for supporting dictators in Iraq and Egypt, i.e. Saddam and Mubarak.

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Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By RedsforChampions
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I see after the Islamic attack in Paris earlier this week we have another one tonight in Belgium. That's obviously payback for Belgium invading the Middle East.


No that's just another terrorist lunatic like that nutter who attacked those Muslims who were leaving the mosque in London the other night.

Oh and Belgium is part of the coalition who are bombing in the Middle East. In fact Belgium has decided to extends its missions in Syria and Iraq just this week.


They are all lunatics but one is more organised than the other


That's of no consolation to their innocent victims


No it is not, it's just a statement. Unfortunately I fear that such attacks might increase as some would like to do something about the ISIS terrorists attacks. I can get worse on both sides

Last edited by RedsforChampions; 22/06/17 07:01 AM.
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Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My point about the perpetrator of the attack on the mosque in Finsbury Park is he is not backed by a global terrorist organisation that has the entire world on alert if you can't see the difference between that and Islamic terrorism then there is no hope. And shaggy exactly what is your solution in Iraq and Syria (bear in mind we are only providing air support and were invited by these sovereign nations) what's it you want the international coalition to dissolve and Both these countries to fall to ISIS? And I would like to see your source of stats please


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...r-a7663881.html

A murderer is a murderer and there background is of no consequence to their victims. Whether you are acting a lone wolf or part of a dedicated terrorist organisation it doesn't mask the fact that both groups are seeking the same outcome - to murder innocent civilians.

As regards Syria and Iraq we shouldn't have been there in the first place. We created ISIS whether we want to admit it or not and before we stuck our noses in both countries had a form of stability.

Unfortunately we cannot put the genie back in the bottle and we are now faced with a terror threat unlike no other. But if you think what is going on there is not linked to what is going on in Europe and elsewhere then you need your head looked.

Here's some more grim reading Stan.

http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-war-civilian-deaths-syria-577353


In what way was Syria stable when we got involved? Or by stable do you mean some nut job dictator slaughtering his people who wanted change and destroying everything stable?


Those wanting democratic change armed themselves initially to defend themselves and the situation descended into a sectarian civil war. The coalition then became involved as did Russia and ISIS seized a foothold then. We are now in a situation where I don't think the coalition even knows who they are fighting for and against on any given day.

As is the case in any civil war, both sides have plenty to answer for. Tell me this wilki, do you know why we went in, do you knoŵ which side we are on? Almost 500,000 people have died in that conflict and it is far from over. I am not for one second blaming the coalition for that figure but we need to have a clear goal and an even clearer exit strategy when we get involved in these conflicts.

We have to stop shooting from the hip and start thinking about the bigger picture. We need statesmen and diplomats, not war mongerers.


As far as I can tell we joined after pressure to do so to help those being slaughtered primarily by ISIS. We held back from getting involved if I remember right for quite some time.

I also remember a lot of people moaning that we weren't getting involved and helping those that were being slaughtered. Then we get involved and no doubt it's the same people moaning that we are so we can't really win can we?

And we're hardly shooting from the hip are we? Targeting ISIS in a controlled way is hardly that is it? And what sort of diplomacy do you think ISIS would welcome?

So in what way was Syria stable when we got involved?

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Originally Posted By Muj
Syria was definitely peaceful before the world powers decided to give them democracy. a beautiful piece of land.burnt n destroyed now.none of anyones fooking business what kind of democracy is there or what is dictator doing. people were in peace n they had food. wernt being bombed.


What did the west have to do with Syria? Wasn't it their people decided to try and change based on what they'd seen else where in some Arab countries?

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Some really silly stuff being posted on here. The west did not Attempt to bring Democracy to Syria and it was not stable when we get involved (unless you class a full scale civil war as stable) the reason we had to get involved was the political vacuum that ISIS were filling and had we not got involved without doubt ISIS would be running Syria and Iraq right now moving on to the next target. What is going on here is a world war but unlike a war we have ever seen before and we won't defeat it just by military means nor will we defeat it by being right on politically correct or not seeing what is plainly obvious. I don't know the answer but I am concerned over the Muslim segregation in western societies we have to find a way to break down these divisions until we can find a way to do that we need to control Muslim immigration to the west otherwise we are facing very serious problems in the future. We have to recognise what is happening internally and externally


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Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Some really silly stuff being posted on here. The west did not Attempt to bring Democracy to Syria and it was not stable when we get involved (unless you class a full scale civil war as stable) the reason we had to get involved was the political vacuum that ISIS were filling and had we not got involved without doubt ISIS would be running Syria and Iraq right now moving on to the next target. What is going on here is a world war but unlike a war we have ever seen before and we won't defeat it just by military means nor will we defeat it by being right on politically correct or not seeing what is plainly obvious. I don't know the answer but I am concerned over the Muslim segregation in western societies we have to find a way to break down these divisions until we can find a way to do that we need to control Muslim immigration to the west otherwise we are facing very serious problems in the future. We have to recognise what is happening internally and externally


We continue to drop bombs on Muslim countries (apparently at their request) killing thousands of civilians along the way and then we are shocked when there are attacks in the west. Really?

In our defence we did save the world from Saddam's weapons of mass destruction so we do at least have that. We have plaŷed a huge part in creating this mess and it isn't going to stop any time soon.


Also, if we are the protectors of the weak then why aren't we bombing Israel who have been in breach of at least 28 UN Resolutions? After all Saddam only broke 16 and we declared all our war on him.

We allowed genocide in Rwanda and stood by doing nothing whilst mass murder took place in the former Yugoslavia. We offer aid to Yemen whilst selling weapons to Saudi Arabia who then drop them on Yemen, (no I'm not joking I'm serious)

ISIS have no airforce, a few tanks and mostly run around on the back of hi ace vans like teenagers at a car rally in Donegal and yet we can't defeat them. Seriously?

As for our problems in the west, I'm afraid it is something that may become part of our lives for the foreseeable future. These lunatics need only hire a van or acquire a few knives and they are ready to strike terror wherever they like. There is no justification for what they are doing and they are the lowest form of cowards imaginable. We are living in very dangerous times and there is no easy solution.

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You said the west was responsible for what these people are doing didn't you so surely there is justification for their attacks?

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Originally Posted By wilkij1975
You said the west was responsible for what these people are doing didn't you so surely there is justification for their attacks?


Wilki there is no justification for what those people are doing. The west is part of this mess but that does not and never will justify the murder of innocent civilians anywhere.

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