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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
The thing is, we've moaned about us getting our second and third choice players in the past so why now would it be OK to do so?
It's also very hard to compare what Alonso and Reina were bought for to what we'd get now. For that money we'd get next to nothing and to get their quality, you'd be talking over £20m a piece. I know we're better off now too though. That's the dilemna we face. Esp because we don't know, and never will know I guess, what the owners and the manager have agreed. If they have agreed that the money is there for the right player then that's fine. But in this situation we should expect to see at least 1 top signing every summer no? But that never happens. Is ist because we always miss out? Or is it because the strategy doesn't allow for high cost players? If we are not in the market for A1 high cost players, then we're in the market for the best of the rest. Problem is, there are lots of other clubs in the same market. So in this situation, maybe wheeling and dealing and sometimes speculative purchases/gambles are the way to go. It'll annoy us when it doesn't work out but maybe we just need to accept that risk and the club needs to be smart in moving failed players on. I'm not necessarily convinced myself - it's a thought. I think some just want us to sign anyone no matter who or what level. I personally feel that money is there for us to buy, obviously within reason as we're not City or Chelsea. As we don't have that level of money we can't compete for the A1 type players (yes I know what FSG said!) but we seem to have changed a bit this last summer with a measured quality over quantity approach. I think that's rolling into this window and Klopp obviously don't think he can get the required quality.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,661
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,661 |
We could have signed Dele Ali for 6million according to BR, he wanted to join us, yet FSG did not feel he was value for money.
However Caulker on a loan was value for money.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 691
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 691 |
We could have signed Dele Ali for 6million according to BR, he wanted to join us, yet FSG did not feel he was value for money.
However Caulker on a loan was value for money. The famous steven caulker. Signed as a CB and played more games as a CF. haha.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
That sounds like a love in for FSG, it is not, I don't like how they operate sometimes and they frustrate me, but they have stabilised us compared to H&G years, we are a much better self sufficient business that can compete in a fair market, unfortunately football is not a fair market anymore as sugar daddy's are skewing the game.
We do need to push on and aim higher, I think they are doing that bringing the likes of Klopp in, buying players like Mane which were big money buys, without being forced to sell someone to finance it, like Rafa had to sometimes. But this will take time, we aren't gonna scatter gun buys like Man City and buy 5 players for £30-50million each and hope 1 or 2 will turn out to be good and sell of the other 3-4 cheap 2 years later after paying them a fortune.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
We could have signed Dele Ali for 6million according to BR, he wanted to join us, yet FSG did not feel he was value for money.
However Caulker on a loan was value for money. That was a stupid decision, was also looking down your nose at a division 3 player thinking £6 million is too much for that level, but it wasn't just FSG thinking that, lots of other clubs like Man Utd didn't think he was worth the gamble and make the step up, Tottenham took the gamble and it has paid off, annoying this is MK had Liverpool mad manager who was telling us to sign him, so we had a great chance.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 691
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 691 |
We could have signed Dele Ali for 6million according to BR, he wanted to join us, yet FSG did not feel he was value for money.
However Caulker on a loan was value for money. That was a stupid decision, was also looking down your nose at a division 3 player thinking £6 million is too much for that level, but it wasn't just FSG thinking that, lots of other clubs like Man Utd didn't think he was worth the gamble and make the step up, Tottenham took the gamble and it has paid off, annoying this is MK had Liverpool mad manager who was telling us to sign him, so we had a great chance. There was also Eriksen. Who went for 12/13 million. Was a proven player in Europe with Ajax and doing really well against established opposition with Denmark. We skipped signing him and instead bought players like Markovic and Balotelli for higher transfers as well.
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
We could have signed Dele Ali for 6million according to BR, he wanted to join us, yet FSG did not feel he was value for money.
However Caulker on a loan was value for money. That was a stupid decision, was also looking down your nose at a division 3 player thinking £6 million is too much for that level, but it wasn't just FSG thinking that, lots of other clubs like Man Utd didn't think he was worth the gamble and make the step up, Tottenham took the gamble and it has paid off, annoying this is MK had Liverpool mad manager who was telling us to sign him, so we had a great chance. There was also Eriksen. Who went for 12/13 million. Was a proven player in Europe with Ajax and doing really well against established opposition with Denmark. We skipped signing him and instead bought players like Markovic and Balotelli for higher transfers as well. Yep, I couldn't believe Tottenham got him at the end of the Window for like £13million, we had been linked for a few years, especially with Jan Molbys connections, same again though, wasn't just us. I guess we can all make great transfer buys in hindsight !!!
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WiseOne
Unregistered
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WiseOne
Unregistered
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I don't consider myself a fickle fan, far from it however I am not going to praise Klopp or call him world class until he has actually achieved something with us. I would be also be interested to know why this mentality of if you don't laud Klopp or call him world class you are automatically told you don't like him, not supporting him or you plain and simply don't want him to fail to back up your point. I don't like Klopp or dislike him I am just giving the feller a chance to prove he is good enough and he will only do that by winning trophies which in the past has always been the way Liverpool fans have judged managers.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
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OP
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
Rafa always worked in a restricted budget, he tried to buy the likes of Alves, Costa etc, when he was allowed to spend big money (at the time), he bought quality like Alonso/Torres/Mascherano/Reina etc but too often he was made to buy cheaper players, which were more of a risk.
Rafa was forced to sell his best players near the end, we had to sell the likes of Mascherano/Alonso to help finance H&G debts they took on to buy us, good players were sold and cheap players brought in to replace them.
Comparing CL qualification now to then just does not compare, in the early to mid 00's Man Utd, Arsenal and us pretty much always qualified, then Chelsea emerged with Abramovic money and we got a 4th spot, so we all qualified, now City have emerged with their mega money, Tottenham are a much more formidable team now, so CL qualification is much harder now than ever before.
That's the key point in the context of recent discussions. There's one view which suggests that if you can't get the players you want then don't get anyone. There's the alternative which says if you can't get your first choice then get your second or even third as opposed to doing nothing. My summary might be too simplistic but it appears that way. (btw, Alonso and Reina weren't big money buys. £10m and £6m I believe) Alonso was our record buy at the time, £10million was a very big transfer in 2004, same with Reina, £6million 2005 for a keep was allot of money. Going back to the original point, we were being forced to sell our best players/lower wage bill with players like Alonso/Mascherano going, what players would want to stay when you watched the best players around you being sold off and mediocre brought in cheaply to replace them. We are now talking about whether we should bring in players or not, FSG are not actively trying to sell Firmino/Coutinho/Lallana etc to finance their debts, if FSG wanted to, i'm sure there are takers as clubs like PSG are struggling to get players in the transfer market and they have big funds. From what I have seen, only Suarez has left who we did not want to leave and that was his personal decision and the money generated was given to BR/recruites, that they bought some rubbish (Markovic etc) is not FSG fault, they also brought in some good players in Lallana/Origi etc. Good points. I didn't realise Alonso was record signing at the time. Re: Reina; didn't we busy Kirkland and Dudek on the same day a few years prior to Reina and both for £6m? not important though. It feels bad saying this, but given how things are now, perhaps H&G were just unlucky with the financial crisis hence their need to sell players? In contrast FSG are enjoying a time of unprecedented tv revenues.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,054 |
Rafa always worked in a restricted budget, he tried to buy the likes of Alves, Costa etc, when he was allowed to spend big money (at the time), he bought quality like Alonso/Torres/Mascherano/Reina etc but too often he was made to buy cheaper players, which were more of a risk.
Rafa was forced to sell his best players near the end, we had to sell the likes of Mascherano/Alonso to help finance H&G debts they took on to buy us, good players were sold and cheap players brought in to replace them.
Comparing CL qualification now to then just does not compare, in the early to mid 00's Man Utd, Arsenal and us pretty much always qualified, then Chelsea emerged with Abramovic money and we got a 4th spot, so we all qualified, now City have emerged with their mega money, Tottenham are a much more formidable team now, so CL qualification is much harder now than ever before.
That's the key point in the context of recent discussions. There's one view which suggests that if you can't get the players you want then don't get anyone. There's the alternative which says if you can't get your first choice then get your second or even third as opposed to doing nothing. My summary might be too simplistic but it appears that way. (btw, Alonso and Reina weren't big money buys. £10m and £6m I believe) Alonso was our record buy at the time, £10million was a very big transfer in 2004, same with Reina, £6million 2005 for a keep was allot of money. Going back to the original point, we were being forced to sell our best players/lower wage bill with players like Alonso/Mascherano going, what players would want to stay when you watched the best players around you being sold off and mediocre brought in cheaply to replace them. We are now talking about whether we should bring in players or not, FSG are not actively trying to sell Firmino/Coutinho/Lallana etc to finance their debts, if FSG wanted to, i'm sure there are takers as clubs like PSG are struggling to get players in the transfer market and they have big funds. From what I have seen, only Suarez has left who we did not want to leave and that was his personal decision and the money generated was given to BR/recruites, that they bought some rubbish (Markovic etc) is not FSG fault, they also brought in some good players in Lallana/Origi etc. Good points. I didn't realise Alonso was record signing at the time. Re: Reina; didn't we busy Kirkland and Dudek on the same day a few years prior to Reina and both for £6m? not important though. It feels bad saying this, but given how things are now, perhaps H&G were just unlucky with the financial crisis hence their need to sell players? In contrast FSG are enjoying a time of unprecedented tv revenues. I think Dudek was about £4million and Kirkland was about £1.5million, it was in the days when transfer fees sometimes were not revealed, crazy signing 2 in a day!!! funny about 15 years later we have bought a keeper for £2million cheaper in Karius in the current age of escalating transfers. H&G were chancers, they took a gamble, they bought us saying they would not put us in debt, but then used the club as the asset to get the loan, with the interest loan paid from our revenue to finance their debt. The world financial market collapsed, and they were part of that, a few years later with the mega SKY deal, they might have pulled it off.
Last edited by ecnirp98; 26/01/17 10:32 PM.
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