|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
We have regularly been spending big, Benteke costing the same as Costa for example. We need to spend smart now.
The above was said on another thread and I thought we should discuss it. Cannot emphasize it enough IMO. We need to spend smart, not big. Just look at some of the players that were insulted and discarded by fans either because their fee was too low or because they didn't work out under Rodgers but are seemingly different players under Klopp. Emre Can Joe Allen Alberto Moreno Adam Lallana Dejan Lovren Divock Origi Roberto Firmino I remember when can was signed people said great, but he isnt good enough, that isn't the calibre of player we should be going for. I remember people saying Roberto Firmino was one of the biggest flops of the transfer committee, just look at him now, assisting and scoring for fun. Divock origi was not only slated, but was unwanted, PRIOR to him even playing a game for us. Because he was rated very poorly in his previous season in France. Look at the boy now, playing his heart out for us and doing so very well. Lovren was lambasted by all, including myself, no one on here thought he was good enough. We got slated for buying players from Southampton but look at how crucial Lovren and Lallana have become for us. Lallana is an automatic starter under Klopp and has been playing fantastically. Just goes to show, the transfer committee didn't get it all wrong, they actually got a lot RIGHT, but the manager we had at the time was not the right one to maximize the potential these players had.
Milner is another example of a player who didn't cause much excitement on here, and who we said was a welcome adition but wasn't really what we needed, but just look at the impact he has had. OUTSTANDING contribution. Of course the TC got some wrong too, like Carroll, Downing, Balloteli etc but the question remains, how would they have performed under Klopp or a more shrewd manager? Also, overall the hit rate of the TC actually seems quite good so perhaps calling for their heads could have more of a negative effect than we thought at first. We all hated the transfer committee, including myself, thinking they couldn't do anything right. Perhaps it's time we stood back and just watched what these players really have to offer when managed properly and utilized in their natural positions. The bit I highlighted is the biggest problem for me. When you don't let the manager buy who HE wants to fit the way he plays it's always going to fail. These players just happen to be 'right' for Klopp at the moment but what if the committee buy players that aren't right for him? We'll be back to square one and won't build on a good start for Klopp. Give Klopp the money and let him spend it as he sees fit. It's the only way it'll work as a committee of people will never know exactly what the manager wants. I agree Wilks, but then we have to ask ourselves, was Rodgers part of the committee and did he have a say? He always claimed he had the final say, IF HE DIDN'T, then WHY did he quiet about it? I have no sympathy for him in that case. Klopp clearly stated he has the final say and that he wouldn't accept coming to Liverpool in any other case. If he doesn't approve the transfers, then they don't happen. If he doesn't want the the players, they dont come in. End of. If Rodgers was willing to accept whoever the committee chose without HIS input, then he is more to blame than the TC. The TC has clearly identified a few gems. A top manager adjusts the style of play to suit the players at his disposal. He does not play Markovic and Sterling as wingbacks. I always remember how Mourinho adjusted his stzle of play at Inter to suit Diego Milito and how he made Milito look like a world beater. A completely average Milito was transformed into a world class striker. It has identified a few gems, by judgement or by luck, as they could not have foreseen klopp taking over when they identified these players? I agree with everything you are saying, but where's the goals coming from then last season, if you think sterling and markovic shouldn't have been played out of position? coutinho was our main goal threat last season, even if gerrard, sterling and henderson all finished on a few more than him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
We have regularly been spending big, Benteke costing the same as Costa for example. We need to spend smart now.
The above was said on another thread and I thought we should discuss it. Cannot emphasize it enough IMO. We need to spend smart, not big. Just look at some of the players that were insulted and discarded by fans either because their fee was too low or because they didn't work out under Rodgers but are seemingly different players under Klopp. Emre Can Joe Allen Alberto Moreno Adam Lallana Dejan Lovren Divock Origi Roberto Firmino I remember when can was signed people said great, but he isnt good enough, that isn't the calibre of player we should be going for. I remember people saying Roberto Firmino was one of the biggest flops of the transfer committee, just look at him now, assisting and scoring for fun. Divock origi was not only slated, but was unwanted, PRIOR to him even playing a game for us. Because he was rated very poorly in his previous season in France. Look at the boy now, playing his heart out for us and doing so very well. Lovren was lambasted by all, including myself, no one on here thought he was good enough. We got slated for buying players from Southampton but look at how crucial Lovren and Lallana have become for us. Lallana is an automatic starter under Klopp and has been playing fantastically. Just goes to show, the transfer committee didn't get it all wrong, they actually got a lot RIGHT, but the manager we had at the time was not the right one to maximize the potential these players had.
Milner is another example of a player who didn't cause much excitement on here, and who we said was a welcome adition but wasn't really what we needed, but just look at the impact he has had. OUTSTANDING contribution. Of course the TC got some wrong too, like Carroll, Downing, Balloteli etc but the question remains, how would they have performed under Klopp or a more shrewd manager? Also, overall the hit rate of the TC actually seems quite good so perhaps calling for their heads could have more of a negative effect than we thought at first. We all hated the transfer committee, including myself, thinking they couldn't do anything right. Perhaps it's time we stood back and just watched what these players really have to offer when managed properly and utilized in their natural positions. The bit I highlighted is the biggest problem for me. When you don't let the manager buy who HE wants to fit the way he plays it's always going to fail. These players just happen to be 'right' for Klopp at the moment but what if the committee buy players that aren't right for him? We'll be back to square one and won't build on a good start for Klopp. Give Klopp the money and let him spend it as he sees fit. It's the only way it'll work as a committee of people will never know exactly what the manager wants. I agree Wilks, but then we have to ask ourselves, was Rodgers part of the committee and did he have a say? He always claimed he had the final say, IF HE DIDN'T, then WHY did he quiet about it? I have no sympathy for him in that case. Klopp clearly stated he has the final say and that he wouldn't accept coming to Liverpool in any other case. If he doesn't approve the transfers, then they don't happen. If he doesn't want the the players, they dont come in. End of. If Rodgers was willing to accept whoever the committee chose without HIS input, then he is more to blame than the TC. The TC has clearly identified a few gems. A top manager adjusts the style of play to suit the players at his disposal. He does not play Markovic and Sterling as wingbacks. I always remember how Mourinho adjusted his stzle of play at Inter to suit Diego Milito and how he made Milito look like a world beater. A completely average Milito was transformed into a world class striker. Rodgers may well have had the final say but that might not have been for players he wanted. Imagine a scenario where Rodgers (or Klopp) turns up to a meeting with the committee and suggests players x,y and z. The committee tell him he can only choose 2 from players a, b and c. He still has final say but not on players he actually wanted. That's how I see that it might have worked.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects. Is it not better to just buy the players the manager wants to play his preferred way in the first place? Round pegs and square holes can apply to the manager too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects. our formation could have been more player orientated but we still might have recorded pretty much the same results, or worse. it seems to me if the team aren't performing/getting the results, even if they have played okay, so I don't see how rodgers could have done much more to not derail the rising stars he had I disagree that it cost the club that much, despite a very mediocre season compared to last for sterling, we still got as much as we possibly could for him
Last edited by Torres65; 09/05/16 11:29 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects. Is it not better to just buy the players the manager wants to play his preferred way in the first place? Round pegs and square holes can apply to the manager too. Yes, but not when the manager, for example, wants Joe Allen, and then utilizes him as a DM instead of as a CM or AM, thereby getting much less value for his money and making Allen look like a poor player, when in fact, he has shown himself to be more than decent.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,849 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects. our formation could have been more player orientated but we still might have recorded pretty much the same results, or worse. it seems to me if the team aren't performing/getting the results, even if they have played okay, so I don't see how rodgers could have done much more to not derail the rising stars he had I disagree that it cost the club that much, despite a very mediocre season compared to last for sterling, we still got as much as we possibly could for him they get slated*
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394 |
I agree, but then we should have adjusted our formation and made the best use of the players at our disposal. That's what great managers do. they don't put square pegs into round holes and hope for the best, which is what we did and it cost not only the club a lot, but it also derailed the careers of some very promising young prospects. Is it not better to just buy the players the manager wants to play his preferred way in the first place? Round pegs and square holes can apply to the manager too. Yes, but not when the manager, for example, wants Joe Allen, and then utilizes him as a DM instead of as a CM or AM, thereby getting much less value for his money and making Allen look like a poor player, when in fact, he has shown himself to be more than decent. Did he want Joe Allen or was he a committee signing? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,542 |
My brother was saying at the weekend how Rogers signings have turned out well, citing Lallana, Lovren and Firminio as prime examples.
Whilst I'm loving the Europa league campaign and improved performances from many players, we're still 8th in the league. You could argue for the money spent, we should certainly be higher.
I can't find where we'd be in the league if it started when Klopp took over, or say, since Jan. I guess we'll see where they can take us next season.
I'd say many have turned out good-very good players (as we knew from their previous club performances) but we need the quality a top name manager can bring to get back into the top 4.
I'm confident 2-3 Klopp signings will take us there next year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,988
1st Team Regular
|
|
1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,988 |
Wasn't Allen a total of 15? I think that is the going rate for a decent squad player nowadays. To be honest, I don't really care what he cost, i care about whether he is a decent backup option and I feel he is.
Also, for every Allen, there is a Coutinho who cost some 8.5mil. The point is, they are all pretty good quality players.
As far as Lallana goes, I think he was mediocre unde BR but I feel he has been absolutely immense under Klopp, his pressing and attacking play has been very impressive and I feel he was a good buy at 25mil, especially taking the homegrown quota into consideration.
Of course, not everyone will agree, but that's just how I see it. This has got to be a joke? So you think Buying Allen for 15m was acceptable. I like his improvements under Klopp but Milner a free agent has come in and done more than Allen has. As for Lallana you feel it was a good buy for 25m which is extraordinary. The guy has no end product, doesn't score, doesn't assist, does nothing but fancy flicks and turns. Yeah he scored last week but that does not excuse his productivity in the previos games which was zero. 25m is an outrageous sum and our rivals purchased better players with that amount.
Back to Back World Champions baby!
|
|
|
|
|
