KopTalk

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 29 of 31 1 2 … 27 28 29 30 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
taken from their site:

Atlantic Gateway is the most significant opportunity in the UK to attract investment, accelerate growth and rebalance the economy. It is a proposition to create a critical mass to achieve a new level of growth not previously achieved in the UK outside of London.


here's the link to their site.

http://www.atlanticgateway.co.uk/

right there on the front page


Sign Reus
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
and as i said, it is a bunch of smaller projects working towards a bigger objective, but anyone of those projects could stall or fall through. At this stage, it is a proposition.


Sign Reus
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Vish I never said going to the games was more important than winning anyone who would make that choice simply does not understand the game. That is not simply a choice that exists in the real world. You also said you wanted to go to anfield because of the history maybe but you are a middle aged man I am talking of long term 50 years plus which is the horizon when you plan such monumental events as a new stadium. And remember this the new stadium would be in Stanley park 50 yards from the existing stadium. You say you wanted to see the Kop well unless you went before 1990 you have not seen it, it was demolished the Kop we have now is rebuilt completely. I know because I have a brick from the Kop in my conservatory and a painting of the old Kop that made Liverpool famous on my bedroom wall.


Are you serious? How many times have you said here that winning was not the most important, the last time being, you were taken to the stadium by your dad when you were 6 and you don't remember the score but remember the day. How many times you have said that going to games with your mates was your way of life which was more important than success, you even said you would prefer a drop in price tickets even if it meant we were in the Championship. Are you denying that you said all this?

Tourists know about LFC because of the success of the club and the Anfield atmosphere, nobody can deny that. This is why depite not being the nicest stadium (as you have said millions of times), it is the second most visited outside London (only because most tourist visit London) behind OT. You are taking about 50 years time, nobody knows how football and clubs will look like then, 30 years back Italy had the most popular league with all the best players after the 1982 world cup going there, where are they today? You cannot jeopardise the progress of the club now for something that could happen or not in 50 years, and nobody is mad enough to spend 500m in a stadium that might end up as a white elephant, not even City. The first step of City's plan was to start winning trophies and it was the same with Chelsea. You are not serious.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By: sixtiesred
A long read but interesting

Bayern Munich battering Barcelona, huge, happy terraced crowds with a beer in hand and cheap tickets – where did it all go so right for the Germans?

Only when I scarf: Mirror Reporter Jeremy Armstrong travelled to watch a Dortmund match at home against Hamburg in the Bundesliga
The last seconds to kick-off are ticking away and a sea of 25,000 football fans sways back and forth singing “You’ll Never Walk Alone” as they await their heroes.

All around me fans are belting out the famous Liverpool FC anthem, their arms aloft, scarves proudly held up to the footballing Gods.

But this is very different to any ground in the English Premier League. They have all paid the equivalent of £8.95 for a match ticket.

Many have a beer in their hand. And they are all standing on old-fashioned terracing.

For a moment I am taken back in time to my first ever matches at St James’ Park, when a Newcastle United goal would signal a surge which lifted schoolkids like me off our feet and into a frenzy of celebration.

But these amazing scenes of footballing fervour have taken the best of the past, and, for Premier League giants balancing the demands of Fair Play rules on income and calls for cheaper tickets, may provide a glimpse of the future for the British game.

Borussia Dortmund won their domestic Double last season, cup winners and Champions of a German top-flight which at more than 45,000 has a higher average attendance than any other in Europe.

The match is a sell-out, with 80,720 supporters packed into the magnificent Signal Iduna Park for the Bundesliga match against Hamburg.

Despite freezing conditions and snow showers, the atmosphere is electric. As Nobby the stadium announcer - the magnificent Norbert Dickel, Dortmund Cup final hero turned match-day cheer-leader - reads out the team sheet, I am lost in tumult of Day-Glo scarves, shirts, hats, gloves and giant flags, the famous “Gelbe Wand” (Yellow Wall) of the towering arena’s south stand.

Many are in their late teens or early twenties - 40 per cent of Dortmund support is under 25 - and there is a high proportion of young women.

Sisters Mela and Svea Ruter are right at the heart of steep terracing which holds the die-hards; known as the Ultras, they are inspired by the fervour and passion of the Italian fans, using loud hailers to whip up the atmosphere.

Retail purchaser Svea, 19, proudly informs me she paid 187 Euro, the equivalent of less than nine pounds a game, for her 17-match season ticket.

At Arsenal, they cost between £985 and £1,955, though their deal includes Champions League matches. A trip to the Emirates can set you back up to £126, a £26 rise on last year’s figure, a programme (£3), pie (£3.30) and cup of tea (£2) adding to the cost.

Newcastle offer Premier League’s best value day out, with a ticket, programme, pie and cuppa coming in at £23.

But no English top flight side is giving their fans as good a deal as that offered by Dortmund. Svea said: “We stand together, we sing together, we have a camaraderie - I love the atmosphere. The low cost means young people can be a part of it. I do not get to the Champions League games unless we can get tickets from friends, or on eBay, but then you cannot stand because of the UEFA rules. It is not the same.”

Student Mele, 22, adds: “You see a lot of women. There is history, the first ever games in Germany were played here and there are a lot of big clubs in the area.

“There was a big discussion this season about the more crowd control, but fans of every single club wanted stadiums to stay the way they are.”

And fans have a big say on how the Bundesliga clubs are run.

Borussia Dortmund is built on on a business model not seen in the English elite, with Roman Abramovich-style takeovers banned.

The “50 plus one rule” means no one individual can own a club. There are 75,000 ‘fan members’ who pay 63 Euros a year - around £55 - to have their say, and a vote, on the make-up of Dortmund’s board.

Five full-time fan representatives ensure their views are heard on everything from ticket prices to standing areas, disabled access, children’s clubs and family stands.

German fans are paying ten times less for season tickets compared to some top English clubs. Away fans get a minimum ten per cent of the cheapest tickets available for each game.

"Fan culture in England is going down the drain"

Thursten Hans, 32, loves English football, and has been to Old Trafford, Wembley and Elland Road, as the city of Leeds is twinned with Dortmund.

But he says the row last month when Man City returned 900 tickets as their fans refused to pay £62 for seats at Arsenal would simply never happen in the Bundesliga.

“Gunners fans are paying just short of £1,000 for a season ticket, that is at least three times what we pay for a seat here,” he said.

“My place in the corner here is 430 Euros (£363) and even the best seats on the half-way line are 600 Euros (£507.55).

“Standing areas in British stadia would be a good way forward. When we played against Man City in the Champions League, even the British bobbies let us stand because we proved standing fans can also have good manners.

“Clubs should not be sold to one owner. You risk becoming some Sheik’s toy. Fan culture in England is going down the drain.

“That is a real menace because supporters’ traditions and values are what football is all about - we love our clubs, here we have a great sense of democracy.

“If we don’t like something, we protest about it - and the clubs help us do that. They want to hear our voice.”

In this corner of Nord Rhein-Westfalen, the most populous state in Germany in the heart of the industrial North, those views are echoed right the way to the boardroom.

The club’s chief executive, Hans-Joachim Watzke believes stadia should have standing areas, cheap tickets, and membership democracy.

“I was a supporter standing for 20 years, I know what it is to stand there,” he said. “They want to feel it is their club, not the club of Qatar or Abu Dhabi”

In Bundesliga, with the historic exceptions of Bayer Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim, that means clubs being majority controlled by their members.

Even giants like Bayern Munich, which is 82% owned by its member-supporters, cannot be bought by a single owner, like Premier League clubs. It is democratically answerable to its fans.

Demos against ticket price hikes, and ‘crowd controls’, showed ‘fan power’ in Germany this season. “Safe Standing” barriers - which can be used to convert seating into standing areas - are used when Bundesliga grounds have to become all-seater for Eufa competitions such as the Champions League.

Political support for their use in Britain grows, with Roger Godsiff MP proposing an Early Day motion in October for a pilot scheme, though Margaret Aspinall, chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group said: “There are 96 reasons why it should never be allowed. Standing should never, ever come back.”

The Hillsborough Disaster mean fences in Dortmund’s standing areas have ‘panic doors’ at the front which open automatically, and ‘wave barriers’ every three to four metres. In the end, the game against Hamburg had everything: red card drama, five goals, pulsating action.

Dortmund went down 4-1 in a shock home defeat.

Jens Volke, their former Ultra turned fans representative, was down at the result but upbeat about the future. “We love the English game but you have lost the young fans because of the prices,” he said.

“I am on Twitter and Facebook every day, it is much more work than for older fans but when you get all the young ones into the stadium for a match, it is such a good atmosphere.

“There is no violence here; we have co-ordinated singing, big flags, fair prices.

“It is very well organised - typically German really.”



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/n...7#ixzz3DAYoqvr5
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook


Germany has the best home grown players but in terms of tv rights and commercial revenues and even I would think match day revenue they are far behind the EPL right now. The EPL model is completely different with much more money pouring in and therefore more better players with a more competitive league.

I watch a lot of EPL games usually about 4 every weekend but seldom watch Bundesliga games though there are quite a few games shown every week.

I would say, the EPL model is the better one as it is more watched, however, how sustainable that is, I don't know, but the EPL FFP is going to help, I think.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Originally Posted By: Ninja Skrtel
and as i said, it is a bunch of smaller projects working towards a bigger objective, but anyone of those projects could stall or fall through. At this stage, it is a proposition.


No it isn't the ports are built and operating and employ many thousands of oeople in fact the second stage of the deep water port will open next year. The long term 30 year objective is to make Liverpool as wealthy as canary wharf in London I agree that's not happened yet but the Atlantic gateway is not a proposal as our internet friend here has espoused The freight section is largely built infrastructure such as rail and road (a new Mersey crossing is being built) is being developed now the rail is called the northern hub. The next and final phase over next ten to 20 years will be the encouragement of hi tech business for which the region is planned to have super fast broadband and much of the innovation will come from the expanded research centre at darebury opened by the prime minister last year. So marko is right it's not one project but thousands of projects but the base infrastructure is there and has been for several years now. That is not taken from the internet but off the too of my head as it's my line of work I am not a number crunching accountant but a management consultant in urban and commercial regeneration albeit I am a qualified chartered accountant.

Last edited by Stanley Park; 13/09/14 08:45 AM.

IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Vish I have read your posts above you clearly enjoy watching the premiership football on your cable system and there is nothing wrong with that. I think your perspective is based on that and the theoretical aspects of running football as you see it. That's fine. But what I think you never see or appreciate is behind the TV programme is a community and a region where football is a way of life almost a religion to some and has been for over a hundred years. Clubs like city Everton United and Liverpool are far more to these communities than football itself the winning and the losing as important as that is. If you asked to choose between the experiences over my life following Liverpool the people the events the stadiums the travel the emotion the highs the lows the friends the conversations and made me choose between that and the list of trophies Liverpool has won I would choose the former every time. Do you understand that perspective ? Or is it just a case of TV on watch game see result and TV off? is the stadium to me is much more than the maths or the accounting although as a consultant I think there is a case. The stadium and the club are an integral part of the city which ties in with the last post to marko on the Atlantic gateway which is moving the city and the region to be on a par with London long term.


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Vish I have read your posts above you clearly enjoy watching the premiership football on your cable system and there is nothing wrong with that. I think your perspective is based on that and the theoretical aspects of running football as you see it. That's fine. But what I think you never see or appreciate is behind the TV programme is a community and a region where football is a way of life almost a religion to some and has been for over a hundred years. Clubs like city Everton United and Liverpool are far more to these communities than football itself the winning and the losing as important as that is. If you asked to choose between the experiences over my life following Liverpool the people the events the stadiums the travel the emotion the highs the lows the friends the conversations and made me choose between that and the list of trophies Liverpool has won I would choose the former every time. Do you understand that perspective ? Or is it just a case of TV on watch game see result and TV off? is the stadium to me is much more than the maths or the accounting although as a consultant I think there is a case. The stadium and the club are an integral part of the city which ties in with the last post to marko on the Atlantic gateway which is moving the city and the region to be on a par with London long term.


So why in the earlier post you wrote that you never said that going to games was more important than winning and here you say exactly this? Looks like you are lost or really battling to make you point at all credible.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Vish going to the games and winning is not a mutually exclusive choice in the real world it's something you have invented to win an online argument. Of course fans at the games want to win and I will say this fans at the games have an influence on the result. I believe the Liverpool fans in the attaturk 25th may 2005 turned that result around for Liverpool that night you could never tell from the TV (I have watched the DVD dozens of times) but the atmosphere that night was intensely physical other than the semi final against Chelsea in 2005 in my 50 years of watching Liverpool I have never witnessed an atmosphere like it and once smicer scored you knew we would win and ac Milan were crushed. You will tell me it was not the crowd if you do you are wrong I have also seen this on many occasions following Liverpool, football is about far more than the game itself winning and losing I believe it's an almost primeval tribalism almost like a battle but without the fighting huge numbers of people coming together in a cause. You can never replicate that on TV never it's impossible that said I will enjoy the game this evening on sky


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Vish going to the games and winning is not a mutually exclusive choice in the real world it's something you have invented to win an online argument. Of course fans at the games want to win and I will say this fans at the games have an influence on the result. I believe the Liverpool fans in the attaturk 25th may 2005 turned that result around for Liverpool that night you could never tell from the TV (I have watched the DVD dozens of times) but the atmosphere that night was intensely physical other than the semi final against Chelsea in 2005 in my 50 years of watching Liverpool I have never witnessed an atmosphere like it and once smicer scored you knew we would win and ac Milan were crushed. You will tell me it was not the crowd if you do you are wrong I have also seen this on many occasions following Liverpool, football is about far more than the game itself winning and losing I believe it's an almost primeval tribalism almost like a battle but without the fighting huge numbers of people coming together in a cause. You can never replicate that on TV never it's impossible that said I will enjoy the game this evening on sky


If the supporters in the stadium made the win in 2005, why didn't they do it in the followingfinal against AC Milan?

Last edited by vish LFC; 13/09/14 12:37 PM.
E
Eliot
Unregistered
Eliot
Unregistered
E
Originally Posted By: vish LFC
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Vish going to the games and winning is not a mutually exclusive choice in the real world it's something you have invented to win an online argument. Of course fans at the games want to win and I will say this fans at the games have an influence on the result. I believe the Liverpool fans in the attaturk 25th may 2005 turned that result around for Liverpool that night you could never tell from the TV (I have watched the DVD dozens of times) but the atmosphere that night was intensely physical other than the semi final against Chelsea in 2005 in my 50 years of watching Liverpool I have never witnessed an atmosphere like it and once smicer scored you knew we would win and ac Milan were crushed. You will tell me it was not the crowd if you do you are wrong I have also seen this on many occasions following Liverpool, football is about far more than the game itself winning and losing I believe it's an almost primeval tribalism almost like a battle but without the fighting huge numbers of people coming together in a cause. You can never replicate that on TV never it's impossible that said I will enjoy the game this evening on sky


If the supporters in the stadium made the win in 2005, why didn't they do it in the followingfinal against AC Milan?


Too busy admiring the stadium that day

Page 29 of 31 1 2 … 27 28 29 30 31

Moderated by  KopTalk Team 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Advertisements
Liverpool FC Discussion