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Vish I presume £20m you assume four per cent interest rates and £500k build cost all from year zero and no equity injection and no naming rights / sponsorship is that not extremely pessimistic ?

I thought FSG were geniuses are sponsorship and are they not capable (John Henry was a banker) of obtaining equity and levered financing at far better rates than four per cent.

The original question was what have they brought to the table on this evidence nothing at all.


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Originally Posted By: vish LFC
Originally Posted By: boxmonkey
Is this the most repetitive thread of all time?



I think yes, I've been very patient but there is a limit which is very close now.


Lool, fair play to yah - much more patience than me

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Many fans who are wanting either a new stadium or a sudden capacity jump from 45,000 to 60,000 (or more) clearly haven't done the sums and haven't grasped the implications on our cash flow that a huge debt mountain and interest payments would bring. Our transfer activity would be severely hindered for years to come if we spent an addtional £100m to £150m, and we could end up with a large stadium that we cannot fill because we are not winning anything due to under investment in the squad.

Too many fans have a sense of entitlement, but I don't think it's FSG's job to satisfy that 28,000 waiting list - its their job to build a sustainable club, achieve success, and continue to secure our long term future.

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Originally Posted By: sixtiesred
Originally Posted By: Eliot
Many fans who are wanting either a new stadium or a sudden capacity jump from 45,000 to 60,000 (or more) clearly haven't done the sums and haven't grasped the implications on our cash flow that a huge debt mountain and interest payments would bring. Our transfer activity would be severely hindered for years to come if we spent an addtional £100m to £150m, and we could end up with a large stadium that we cannot fill because we are not winning anything due to under investment in the squad.

Too many fans have a sense of entitlement, but I don't think it's FSG's job to satisfy that 28,000 waiting list - its their job to build a sustainable club, achieve success, and continue to secure our long term future.


Transfer activity ?. Surly no more than now eh ! wink


Well you'd think with all the rumours you copy and paste that it would only be a matter of time.

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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Vish I presume £20m you assume four per cent interest rates and £500k build cost all from year zero and no equity injection and no naming rights / sponsorship is that not extremely pessimistic ?

I thought FSG were geniuses are sponsorship and are they not capable (John Henry was a banker) of obtaining equity and levered financing at far better rates than four per cent.

The original question was what have they brought to the table on this evidence nothing at all.



You will need to add some capital repayment even if it is a long term debt and interest would be a floating charge meaning will go up in the next few years as it is at it's lowest point now. I am sure the biggest problem is the business case as our cash flow would not allow such an investment especially as this additional investment would stay idle for at least 10 years (the expansion beyond 60k seats will not be needed before that).

I still think that any investment will be possible by doing an IPO but I don't think now is the right time to do it, we need to be successful or at least competing as last season for some years first.

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True interest rates will go up but then that means equity rate becomes cheaper as with interest rates increasing it means the economy is stronger and money competes for more opportunities and supply decreases the prices. Obviously if you borrow you have to pay it back. As for an equity placing I agree with you the time is not perfect at the moment but given the rate the economy is picking up it very soon will be.

As for the business case I can't agree it depends what the objectives of the business case are I would prefer owners with a long term vision for the club. Whereas I suspect the vision is about the positioning of the club to meet Henry's financial objective that May or may not align with the fans objective.

As I have said many times I want us to be able to compete with Man United and the like long term for me the owners objective does not enter into it. I know they are the owners and they will do as they like but this is an LFC opinion forum and I don't have to like what they do,

As a fan of over 50 years I am hugely disappointed we are going down a track where we are limited for all time and I can't grasp how any fan can be happy with that.


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Originally Posted By: rawk
You're missing how devious FSG are. They are just in it for the cash so they are cunningly redeveloping Anfield in the most cost effective way with enough premium seats to add 9,000 general admission seats over the next three or four years. The devious [oops] have already brought in a talented young manager and are building up an exciting team playing superb football (c*nts). I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't slyly scheming to win a load of trophies just to enhance the value of the club so that when the value of the club is really high and is generating big revenues... they errr... just sell it?


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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
True interest rates will go up but then that means equity rate becomes cheaper as with interest rates increasing it means the economy is stronger and money competes for more opportunities and supply decreases the prices. Obviously if you borrow you have to pay it back. As for an equity placing I agree with you the time is not perfect at the moment but given the rate the economy is picking up it very soon will be.

As for the business case I can't agree it depends what the objectives of the business case are I would prefer owners with a long term vision for the club. Whereas I suspect the vision is about the positioning of the club to meet Henry's financial objective that May or may not align with the fans objective.

As I have said many times I want us to be able to compete with Man United and the like long term for me the owners objective does not enter into it. I know they are the owners and they will do as they like but this is an LFC opinion forum and I don't have to like what they do,

As a fan of over 50 years I am hugely disappointed we are going down a track where we are limited for all time and I can't grasp how any fan can be happy with that.

And no one seems to realise that inflation is set to rise in the coming years and that works magic for reducing the real burden of large investments.

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If inflation is set to rise, that will result in interest rate rises increasing annual repayments

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