KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum Possession Possession Possession

So we need to wait for 6 weeks then, until Coutinho is back. How low have we fallen, we have to rely on a frail 20 yr old, where are we heading?

I think at the moment we should be playing Hendo and Lucas with each other with Gerrard just in front of them, with Suarez and Moses on either side, so it'll look more like this.

.......Hendo....Lucas.......
Suarez..Gerrard..Moses
.............Sturridge...........

I think Gerrard has the ability to pass the ball around and he still has his vision. If he sits back he ends up doing Hollywood passes that lose us the ball. Hendo has the ability to run with the ball and when he's in the middle he can pass pretty well. If Gerrard plays like he has the Rodgers needs to give him a rest and play this:

.......Allen.......Lucas.......
Suarez...Hendo...Moses
............Sturridge............

Have to agree BM that this is the likely outcome. It's one thing to be trimming the squad of perceived over paid players if you then make sure that you add to those sold with a larger number (we were already wafer thin) of new additions on less money.

That hasn't happened and now we are as many have said paying the price. It is starting to look like a complete replica of last season where Suarez will step back in and mask the problems without us really being strong enough to kick on.

Sorry to get this thread back on track, but I think this is well worth debating.

I think our possession problems are manifold, and, as it’s such a complex issue I will only throw my 2 pence worth in with regards 1st phase possession – that between the back-4 and deep-lying midfielders – which is where I think we struggled most against Southampton:

1. Certain back-4 combinations we have at the club do not sufficiently trust our midfield to accept a pass with a man on their back. Specifically Skittles struggles with this and I think until he settles in Sakho is reluctant to play to a man under pressure – it’s understandable. This certainly partly explains the Saints debacle as both were part of our back-4. Regular full-backs are usually much more comfortable playing to a man under pressure – it’s an essential part of the full-backs job.

2. Then we have the number of men showing for the ball. If the opposition are playing a 442 and pushing on ala Southampton, then if we only have 2 players showing then they will struggle - particularly given point 1 above, and point 3 below. To counter this you can either put 3 in there as you suggested, like Barca do. Or you can ask your wide men to drop in (like Manure did under Twatface) - it's very unlikely that the full back will follow a winger in during a tough away game, and then you have your overload. Coutinho does this for us when he plays either in the middle or out wide. Sterling does this when he is played out wide - although he's been struggling to keep the ball so far this season when he’s come on. Aspas and Moses don't appear to do this. Hendo does when played centrally and left but not when wide right it seems. Until Sterling came on we only had Gerrard and Lucas showing for short balls from the back-4. This was a big problem for us with Saints pushing up in a 442, and annoyingly predictable given the balance of the team. It’s why I, like many others, were shocked to see Coutinho replaced by a Moses/Aspas reshuffle, rather than Sterling or Alberto. A terrible managerial decision that hopefully won’t repeat itself…

3. Of those players dropping in to collect the ball, at least one needs to have the rare ability to play more than 180 degrees, i.e. to not just play the way they are facing. If no one has this ability the ball just gets passed back and forth between the back-4 and midfield until the options run out and you hit it long, or get caught in possession. Players who have this skill always seem to have time on the ball. Bar their centre backs nearly all Barca's players can play more than 180. Lucas, Gerrard and Hendo don't have this ability. Coutinho, Suso and Suarez do. I think Alberto has this skill, but we're yet to see it in a competitive prem game. A good reference is to compare Sterling (who has it) and Ibe (who doesn't - yet). This again, combined with the point above, was a massive problem for us against Southampton and showed an alarming lack of balance in our team selection.

4. Positional discipline. This is where players have the confidence to maintain their position inspite of game movements sucking them into spaces they shouldn't want to be. English players are very bad at this generally, especially after they have taken the lead. They get forced into more defensive positions (it's unavoidable if the opposition are pushing on), but don't reshape on transition. This is one of Gerrard’s and Henderson’s biggest weaknesses. It's typical of "when in doubt get behind the ball" mentalities. This partly explains the gulf between Lucas and Gerrard and the forward 4 against the Saints. They were all too far apart, making short, easy passing impossible and riskier passes inevitable (this is illustrated perfectly here http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/145542-lfc-0-1-southampton-opta-chalkboards. For a good demonstration watch Spurs at the moment. They are not actually playing that well – creating few clear-cut chances, but their positioning is outstanding forcing the opposition onto the back-foot more or less all the time and looking very unlikely to concede.

5. Pass-completion rates. In a possession based game you need your back 4 and deep-lying midfielders to ideally have around 90% pass completion in the defensive third. Most of our back four are there or thereabouts, and Lucas and Allen are consistently around the magic number. The big debate is whether Gerrard can play that role. Current form (available here http://www.liverpoolfc.com/team/player-stats/11618/Gerrard - do the comparison with Lucas for real insight) suggests he is not. Not every player needs such high pass stats, as you move further up the field players have less space, fewer options and are required to take more risks. Gerrards stats were always good for an attacking AM position, far better than Coutinho’s for example, but it hasn’t translated well to a deep-lying DM or play-making position.

6. My last point is about trust in the system, and our starting 11 against the Saints really worries me – not even BR fully trusts the game-plan it seems. If you watch Barca they play the same way in every second of every game. We don’t. We have done it to perfection in the 1st halves against Stoke, Villa and Swansea, but consistently lost our nerve after the break. You could call it pragmatic – the results were good after all – but we’ve now seen the price. If BR was really playing the way he envisions us playing, then he would have set up against Southampton as follows:

---------------Migs

Hendo---Toure--Agger/Sakho--Enrique

------Gerrard--------Lucas

Sterling------Alberto-------Moses

-------------Sturridge

I am sure we would have kept the ball much better if we had. I hope he can get back to the basics of his own system asap.