|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
There is constructive criticism, and there is undermining the club.
Us fans are a broad spectrum of people including educated & uneducated, young & old, rich & poor, polite & rude, mature & immature etc. So there's always bound to be a variety of emotions/thoughts/methods of expression floating around at any one time - not all will be calm, considered, positive etc. This variation will be exacerbated when results and progress are poor. Up to a certain level it should be regarded simply as background noise and tolerated - not undermining the club. However, if this collective noise level starts to rise, then it's usually a good indicator that there's something wrong with the club's performance. It's the responsibility of the club ownership & management to address it - they've either mismanaged expectations else they're failing to deliver.
I understand. I am a fan. No trying to teach me please.
apologies if you felt offended there, but I don't understand why. we're all just exchanging views - and the written form doesn't always convey the spirit in which the exchange is taking place. aren't you trying to convince people to remain positive? does that not mean you're trying to teach others?
Progress is the biggest difference in opinion for most fans, but there is cohesive justifiable analysis.
My statements aren't meant to be nice. They are truths I've had to come to accept some people do.
Yes, it is the same people. Again. Repeated.
When a government falls and wonders why despite all the good background work it is convinced it has done, the people and the media have that famous retort 'It's the economy, stupid'. That's the same with fans and owners... it's the results. No matter what analysis the experts, academics (and in some cases the spin doctors) provide, at the end of the day the table doesn't lie. After 3 years of FSGs ownership, we finished 11 points off 5th place and there's little visible progress on refurbishment of Anfield.
Are we supposed to believe that there's a grand masterplan in place which is all going to fall in place on the last day of this transfer window? Even if this is true, it's understandable why fans feel hesitant in buying it after several false dawns over the last few years.
The main question the fans have is, after a full season given to BR to get the feel of what needs to be done, why have we gone through a whole transfer window without obvious quality recruitments in key areas? The fans can see cost cutting and squad trimming, but so signs of a clear plan to achieve top 4 this season. Anything done at the last minute is cutting it a bit fine and doesn't give confidence that it's part of a considered plan.
Once the window shuts, the fan base will have a huge call to make. Does it get behind the club, rain or shine, for the rest of the season? Or does it start to express dissatisfaction with increased volume if it soon becomes obvious that we're way off the pace for a top 4 finish.
I'd be inclined to say we should bite our tongues and ride it out for another season, but perhaps only because the alternatives are unknown. It would help though if FSG would communicate the expectations better. How many years do they have in mind to get us into the top 4?
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,446
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,446 |
I hope to god this window works out, I'd like to come on here to find a lot of the negs have done a 180. does that include you  Oh! Yes, as my location says I'm on the fence. But I do hope they prove everyone wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
I'd be inclined to say we should bite our tongues and ride it out for another season, but perhaps only because the alternatives are unknown. It would help though if FSG would communicate the expectations better. How many years do they have in mind to get us into the top 4? Answers to questions like this have been said in the press quite clearly. That is why all this rhetoric annoys me. You suggested I was trying to teach people to be positive. That isn't the case. I've been pleading for people to have patience, this window, given the success of the last one. January was one of our best ever transfer windows. No doubt. Why 6 months later, when form and results and positivity are all emanating through the club, should this become an apocalypse festival?! Rodgers target is to qualify for the top 4 next season. That has been made clear by him, who did an interview when he said he feared for his job less than 6 months in, and also by Werner, Henry and such in interviews. Rodgers believes we can do it this, and the owners are very pleased with the most recent progress... People can't see it, fine... I'm not going to accept that stance though. I think logic dictates most of these arguments, and there are things that are quantifiable. It isn't about winning an argument, or should I say it shouldn't be. Over-exaggerations to the point where they're informing your opinion... That is what the last month on here has been like. As I say, I do think FSG have been quite clear... I know people might prefer a Whelan type, who is in the press making statements all the time... But none of the biggest clubs work like that, no offence intended to Wigan... Does any top 6 club do what you want?! I think not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
Wave? It has been like a monsoon storm in the amazon... I've been crying out for a touch of patience on the transfer front... Looks like I'm not being deceived so far. We'll see... Big suggestions that 3/4 tomorrow won't be the end. They actually do still appear to want a marquee signing. I think that reflects the state the club is in generally that won't change with the signing of a few mid ranking players in next day or two. Do you remember when moores sold out and the reasons why ? This is not what we signed up to.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
I'd be inclined to say we should bite our tongues and ride it out for another season, but perhaps only because the alternatives are unknown. It would help though if FSG would communicate the expectations better. How many years do they have in mind to get us into the top 4? Answers to questions like this have been said in the press quite clearly. That is why all this rhetoric annoys me. You suggested I was trying to teach people to be positive. That isn't the case. I've been pleading for people to have patience, this window, given the success of the last one. January was one of our best ever transfer windows. No doubt. Why 6 months later, when form and results and positivity are all emanating through the club, should this become an apocalypse festival?! Rodgers target is to qualify for the top 4 next season. That has been made clear by him, who did an interview when he said he feared for his job less than 6 months in, and also by Werner, Henry and such in interviews. Rodgers believes we can do it this, and the owners are very pleased with the most recent progress... People can't see it, fine... I'm not going to accept that stance though. I think logic dictates most of these arguments, and there are things that are quantifiable. It isn't about winning an argument, or should I say it shouldn't be. Over-exaggerations to the point where they're informing your opinion... That is what the last month on here has been like. As I say, I do think FSG have been quite clear... I know people might prefer a Whelan type, who is in the press making statements all the time... But none of the biggest clubs work like that, no offence intended to Wigan... Does any top 6 club do what you want?! I think not. So FSG and/or BR have made clear public statements that top 4 is not expected this season but is next season? Really? I haven't spotted those. Some links would be useful. Yes, January was a great window. But I don't think this one is necessarily regarded as apocalyptic. That's just how fans are on a forum. Sarcastic, self-deprecating, full of exaggeration etc. That's not to say there isn't dissatisfaction. Because the January window and the subsequent performances were so good, we expected to build on that during this window. I suppose what we're reading on forums results from the frustration of not seeing that happen. It then raises the question as to whether the January window was an exceptional fluke rather than an indication of FSG/BR knowing what they're doing. It seems we'll have to wait 'till the end of next season to know which it is. Re: owners, I don't think people do prefer a Whelan type. Henry & Werner come across as highly professional and there are no issues in that regard. The problem simply seems to be either a lack of clarity in their plans and/or a mismatch between their expectations and those of the fans and/or a mismatch between their words and actions.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
|
|
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
I'd be inclined to say we should bite our tongues and ride it out for another season, but perhaps only because the alternatives are unknown. It would help though if FSG would communicate the expectations better. How many years do they have in mind to get us into the top 4? Answers to questions like this have been said in the press quite clearly. That is why all this rhetoric annoys me. You suggested I was trying to teach people to be positive. That isn't the case. I've been pleading for people to have patience, this window, given the success of the last one. January was one of our best ever transfer windows. No doubt. Why 6 months later, when form and results and positivity are all emanating through the club, should this become an apocalypse festival?! Rodgers target is to qualify for the top 4 next season. That has been made clear by him, who did an interview when he said he feared for his job less than 6 months in, and also by Werner, Henry and such in interviews. Rodgers believes we can do it this, and the owners are very pleased with the most recent progress... People can't see it, fine... I'm not going to accept that stance though. I think logic dictates most of these arguments, and there are things that are quantifiable. It isn't about winning an argument, or should I say it shouldn't be. Over-exaggerations to the point where they're informing your opinion... That is what the last month on here has been like. As I say, I do think FSG have been quite clear... I know people might prefer a Whelan type, who is in the press making statements all the time... But none of the biggest clubs work like that, no offence intended to Wigan... Does any top 6 club do what you want?! I think not. So FSG and/or BR have made clear public statements that top 4 is not expected this season but is next season? Really? I haven't spotted those. Some links would be useful. Yes, January was a great window. But I don't think this one is necessarily regarded as apocalyptic. That's just how fans are on a forum. Sarcastic, self-deprecating, full of exaggeration etc. That's not to say there isn't dissatisfaction. Because the January window and the subsequent performances were so good, we expected to build on that during this window. I suppose what we're reading on forums results from the frustration of not seeing that happen. It then raises the question as to whether the January window was an exceptional fluke rather than an indication of FSG/BR knowing what they're doing. It seems we'll have to wait 'till the end of next season to know which it is. Re: owners, I don't think people do prefer a Whelan type. Henry & Werner come across as highly professional and there are no issues in that regard. The problem simply seems to be either a lack of clarity in their plans and/or a mismatch between their expectations and those of the fans and/or a mismatch between their words and actions. From what I have heard the target is top 4, nothing less. If we can't make it, both BR and FSG would have failed, this is how I see it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
Wave? It has been like a monsoon storm in the amazon... I've been crying out for a touch of patience on the transfer front... Looks like I'm not being deceived so far. We'll see... Big suggestions that 3/4 tomorrow won't be the end. They actually do still appear to want a marquee signing. I think that reflects the state the club is in generally that won't change with the signing of a few mid ranking players in next day or two. Do you remember when moores sold out and the reasons why ? This is not what we signed up to. Hey Stan, are we in the relegation zone or something? Just checking...
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
I'd be inclined to say we should bite our tongues and ride it out for another season, but perhaps only because the alternatives are unknown. It would help though if FSG would communicate the expectations better. How many years do they have in mind to get us into the top 4? Answers to questions like this have been said in the press quite clearly. That is why all this rhetoric annoys me. You suggested I was trying to teach people to be positive. That isn't the case. I've been pleading for people to have patience, this window, given the success of the last one. January was one of our best ever transfer windows. No doubt. Why 6 months later, when form and results and positivity are all emanating through the club, should this become an apocalypse festival?! Rodgers target is to qualify for the top 4 next season. That has been made clear by him, who did an interview when he said he feared for his job less than 6 months in, and also by Werner, Henry and such in interviews. Rodgers believes we can do it this, and the owners are very pleased with the most recent progress... People can't see it, fine... I'm not going to accept that stance though. I think logic dictates most of these arguments, and there are things that are quantifiable. It isn't about winning an argument, or should I say it shouldn't be. Over-exaggerations to the point where they're informing your opinion... That is what the last month on here has been like. As I say, I do think FSG have been quite clear... I know people might prefer a Whelan type, who is in the press making statements all the time... But none of the biggest clubs work like that, no offence intended to Wigan... Does any top 6 club do what you want?! I think not. So FSG and/or BR have made clear public statements that top 4 is not expected this season but is next season? Really? I haven't spotted those. Some links would be useful. Yes, January was a great window. But I don't think this one is necessarily regarded as apocalyptic. That's just how fans are on a forum. Sarcastic, self-deprecating, full of exaggeration etc. That's not to say there isn't dissatisfaction. Because the January window and the subsequent performances were so good, we expected to build on that during this window. I suppose what we're reading on forums results from the frustration of not seeing that happen. It then raises the question as to whether the January window was an exceptional fluke rather than an indication of FSG/BR knowing what they're doing. It seems we'll have to wait 'till the end of next season to know which it is. Re: owners, I don't think people do prefer a Whelan type. Henry & Werner come across as highly professional and there are no issues in that regard. The problem simply seems to be either a lack of clarity in their plans and/or a mismatch between their expectations and those of the fans and/or a mismatch between their words and actions. From what I have heard the target is top 4, nothing less. If we can't make it, both BR and FSG would have failed, this is how I see it. Then you clearly didn't watch the Tom Werner interview where he clearly states that BR has not been given and targets or demands, no expectations. They trust him to do the job, he knows where LFC belong.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791
1st Team Squad
|
|
1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,791 |
Of course the top4 is the target, we all know it, but I dont think BR has his job on the line if he doesnt get it.
Sign Reus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279
Under 23 Player
|
|
Under 23 Player
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,279 |
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/143949-br-it-s-important-we-re-up-thereI like the tone of BRs responses in this interview. "We're not entering the league just to be fourth... Winning the league is about the best team not just the best players. That's our challenge." That's what I like to hear. However, ... "This year is a big year for us. I signed here for three years and the objective was, certainly in the third year, to be somewhere near challenging for the Champions League." Now that's a bit more hesitant. Seems to be saying that top 4 isn't an essential target for next year either. The target even for next year is to be 'somewhere near' the top 4 it seems. It seems we're fearful of clearly stating our ambitions and the timescales we've set for achieving those ambitions. Not sure whether this is due to both FSG & BR fearing that they'd be held to account if they failed. Let's just hope we win today. That'll give a huge boost to everyone. Coupled with the signing of Moses and maybe one or two more, it could be a springboard for the rest of the season. Defeat would just create more doubt. Hence a huge result for us today I think.
'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly
'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
|
|
|
|
|
