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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
Just read it good to hear they are not going to release Suarez but concerning Rodgers commens about 4th being a major challenge
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Jun 2011
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1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2011
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He is applying pressure on the owners i think and despite that, we already knew it was a big ask.
Sign Reus
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
He is applying pressure on the owners i think and despite that, we already knew it was a big ask. Well someone needs to put pressure in them.
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416 |
I think trouble is brewing between manager and owners, I think Rodgers is to ambitious for the pace that Fsg want to move at, I might be getting ahead of myself but I can see a scenario where Rodgers leaves Liverpool this season.
"Romance has broke down This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Moderator
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Moderator
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If we dont strengthen the squad that is.
"Romance has broke down This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628 |
If Rodgers resigned (unlikely) that would leave FSG in almost untenable position. Everyone would know he left because of the owners constraints and no decent manager would touch the job.
Very rocky and uncertain times at the club
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,416 |
It is all just speculation but it looks like a back me plea, he confirms they had Willian but for financial reasons even though the money is there, very frustrating.
"Romance has broke down This boy is crack'in up"
So not a moderator
Valar Morghulis
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
I also never sad I did not understand jjj posts but clearly English is not his first language and I was polte and just said we will leave it for now
You are trying to cause trouble marko.
I am sorry I don't agree with all you say but I am afraid I don't. I am not trying to cause trouble at all, but I really don't for the life of me, see where you get this idea english isn't his first language. I really honestly don't. I think his english is impecable. I don't think anyone else thinks english isn't his first language, so it is so obvious for you is beyond me. P.S. Are yo offering me your season ticket for free? I will flog it within 10 minutes of getting it, no problem! Look, the only reason he said it, was because I was justifying my position, and to disregard it as best he could, he chose to insinuate false information. English is most definitely my first language. In fact, it is the only language I speak well, write in, or read! I don't mind a difference of opinion, though I made it quite clear that there were certain reasons I could not, under any circumstance, understand a position taken to hate FSG that didn't take into account them changing their stance inside their tenure. By doing so, you take their position out of context, and by default, that puts the findings under question. I don't care for it to be honest. I have already aired my views before, and to be honest, if I continue to be blasphemed and cornered by people unwilling to take points, I'll just voice my opinion verbally elsewhere and away from people trying to bemoan the club in its entirity. Thanks Prolific for backing me up, but to be honest, I have had a terrible last few weeks, and this kind of slander from Stanley really isn't helping.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
Excuse me Vish, but fans money is not obligational. Nor do the club have to spend it as the fans request it to be. They have the right to do whatever they want with it because they spent millions buying the club. They bought the assets of the club, and ultimately have much more than just fans contributing to paying for things.
You are right in saying that the only way of you getting your way is harming the club and them by proxy, by removing your income. But the fanbase is big enough to cope. So I guess they won't worry about you not being a "paying fan" anymore.
I just think anybody that believes they HAVE TO and that it is the ONLY CHOICE doesn't understand business past first base. So if you believe it, I'm sorry, but I think you fall under that same umbrella. I don't mean to insult, but spending money is not the only option, and any good businessman understands that there are a number of options to go down, and it is not all down to just throwing money in a pot. And that basically summarises everybodys opinion on what has to be done that is against FSG.
For a step change (this is what I think is required now to bridge the gap because other clubs already better than us are also improving/progressing), you need to invest, unless of course you have a unique recipe for success that is very difficult to copy, in business you will call that a USP (Unique Selling Proposition), it is your competitive advantage. You seem to believe that LFC/FSG have it today through BR's management/coaching skills and the scouting team/committee and you seem to think that what we have is so unique that it can bridge the huge gap between us and the top 5 teams despite having 3 of them namely City, Spurs and Chelsea outspending us. Seriously, I don't know what makes you believe this, our manager has never shown to be much better than their managers, in fact, he has never finished above them, not even Moyes, let alone winning trophies more tgan them. The only benefit of the doubt that I could give is the purchase of Coutinho and to a lesser extent Sturridge (Benteke for instance is better value for money paid by Villa to bring him in), but then, even with these players and those brought in, I feel top 4 will be difficult. Do you honestly feel that we have right now the team including the manager to get into top 4 this season? I am saying top 4 because this is the stated intent of BR. Stop trying to pretend you're teaching me. I studied business. I understand how they work. Businessmen have different opinions like anybody. An USP is really not that complicated, not alien to me and it is not at all what I was suggesting. What I believe is that there is always a limit to what can be done on a football field. For all the best talent in the world, success isn't guaranteed. You need the right strategy, versatility, commitment, player understanding and ability to beat specific types of teams over a percentage of the time. Look at Barcelona, a team that until the demolition by Bayern were seen as almost invincibles. Their first team consists of players like Valdes, Puyol and Pedro, three players I think are not in the top category for quality. Canizares was better than Valdes in his prime, and both Reina and Casillas have been for extensive periods, Puyol is integral to Barcelona, but his abilities as a player are still limited. He offers a lot of alternate qualities but does still make mistakes other "better technical" defenders wouldn't. Pedro is a good player, don't get me wrong, but there are maybe 10 players, at very least, in the world that are a step up from him. It is not always about having the most expensively assembled squad, and this is exactly where my opinion differs. In Aspas, we have signed a good player. Very good recent record and a player on the back of a slow-burning career approaching his peak. He is judged, by people like you, on his price-tag and his "well known-ness" rather than his quality. In fact, it is fair to say that few people do know of all of his qualities, because Celta haven't exactly been a team everybody watches on TV. And yet, despite this, they have judged him already. I don't think a good player who cost £2m, and a good player that cost £20m have different quality attributes directly associated with price. They are about talent. They are not about being more or less expensive. Ultimately, belief in FSG can come down to several things. For me, I believe Rodgers has a strong strategy (not unique but very good), I believe our scouting department is one of the best around (Hunter, Aptroot, Troiani, Harper, Fallows etc.), and I think that Rodgers' forte is motivation and coaching with the ball at the centre of training. In spite of financial restrictions some may see which I don't, they are capable of finding hidden talent, and integrating it into the new Liverpool playing style, and I think Rodgers can motivate and bring together those into a collective, driven and potentially successful group. For someone who spoke of taking stats out of context being silly, you're doing so by saying Rodgers hasn't finished above Moyes. I think we need 2 players to be probable challengers for fourth. I am not going to do the whole, "2 players and we have it in the bag." I think it is going to be difficult as it stands, one signing on the wings would be an essential, and one defender would be good business too. I'd like to see the club sign an AM, W, CB and ST, but I seriously doubt that will happen. Expectations vs realism summarise this post up completely.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
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Excuse me Vish, but fans money is not obligational. Nor do the club have to spend it as the fans request it to be. They have the right to do whatever they want with it because they spent millions buying the club. They bought the assets of the club, and ultimately have much more than just fans contributing to paying for things.
You are right in saying that the only way of you getting your way is harming the club and them by proxy, by removing your income. But the fanbase is big enough to cope. So I guess they won't worry about you not being a "paying fan" anymore.
I just think anybody that believes they HAVE TO and that it is the ONLY CHOICE doesn't understand business past first base. So if you believe it, I'm sorry, but I think you fall under that same umbrella. I don't mean to insult, but spending money is not the only option, and any good businessman understands that there are a number of options to go down, and it is not all down to just throwing money in a pot. And that basically summarises everybodys opinion on what has to be done that is against FSG.
For a step change (this is what I think is required now to bridge the gap because other clubs already better than us are also improving/progressing), you need to invest, unless of course you have a unique recipe for success that is very difficult to copy, in business you will call that a USP (Unique Selling Proposition), it is your competitive advantage. You seem to believe that LFC/FSG have it today through BR's management/coaching skills and the scouting team/committee and you seem to think that what we have is so unique that it can bridge the huge gap between us and the top 5 teams despite having 3 of them namely City, Spurs and Chelsea outspending us. Seriously, I don't know what makes you believe this, our manager has never shown to be much better than their managers, in fact, he has never finished above them, not even Moyes, let alone winning trophies more tgan them. The only benefit of the doubt that I could give is the purchase of Coutinho and to a lesser extent Sturridge (Benteke for instance is better value for money paid by Villa to bring him in), but then, even with these players and those brought in, I feel top 4 will be difficult. Do you honestly feel that we have right now the team including the manager to get into top 4 this season? I am saying top 4 because this is the stated intent of BR. Stop trying to pretend you're teaching me. I studied business. I understand how they work. Businessmen have different opinions like anybody. An USP is really not that complicated, not alien to me and it is not at all what I was suggesting. What I believe is that there is always a limit to what can be done on a football field. For all the best talent in the world, success isn't guaranteed. You need the right strategy, versatility, commitment, player understanding and ability to beat specific types of teams over a percentage of the time. Look at Barcelona, a team that until the demolition by Bayern were seen as almost invincibles. Their first team consists of players like Valdes, Puyol and Pedro, three players I think are not in the top category for quality. Canizares was better than Valdes in his prime, and both Reina and Casillas have been for extensive periods, Puyol is integral to Barcelona, but his abilities as a player are still limited. He offers a lot of alternate qualities but does still make mistakes other "better technical" defenders wouldn't. Pedro is a good player, don't get me wrong, but there are maybe 10 players, at very least, in the world that are a step up from him. It is not always about having the most expensively assembled squad, and this is exactly where my opinion differs. In Aspas, we have signed a good player. Very good recent record and a player on the back of a slow-burning career approaching his peak. He is judged, by people like you, on his price-tag and his "well known-ness" rather than his quality. In fact, it is fair to say that few people do know of all of his qualities, because Celta haven't exactly been a team everybody watches on TV. And yet, despite this, they have judged him already. I don't think a good player who cost £2m, and a good player that cost £20m have different quality attributes directly associated with price. They are about talent. They are not about being more or less expensive. Ultimately, belief in FSG can come down to several things. For me, I believe Rodgers has a strong strategy (not unique but very good), I believe our scouting department is one of the best around (Hunter, Aptroot, Troiani, Harper, Fallows etc.), and I think that Rodgers' forte is motivation and coaching with the ball at the centre of training. In spite of financial restrictions some may see which I don't, they are capable of finding hidden talent, and integrating it into the new Liverpool playing style, and I think Rodgers can motivate and bring together those into a collective, driven and potentially successful group. For someone who spoke of taking stats out of context being silly, you're doing so by saying Rodgers hasn't finished above Moyes. I think we need 2 players to be probable challengers for fourth. I am not going to do the whole, "2 players and we have it in the bag." I think it is going to be difficult as it stands, one signing on the wings would be an essential, and one defender would be good business too. I'd like to see the club sign an AM, W, CB and ST, but I seriously doubt that will happen. Expectations vs realism summarise this post up completely. I am not pretending to teach you anything, I am not the one telling others that they don't understand business (more than once). FYI I have studied business and working in business for the last 20 years. In fact, I have always said that FSG understand business very well, what they are doing is exactly what should be done to make LFC profitable quickly, I have personally led 2 turnarounds, so I know what I am talking about. What I also said is that I am not sure that the teams winning the trophies today in the EPL are the most profitable ones except Man United because they, as well, are befiting from past glories in addition to the last 20 years of recent success. The other profitable club is Arsenal who have won close to nothing in the last 10 years, this is where I think we are heading, profitable but winning only the odd trophies every now and then. Now if you think we will be competing with the top 4 teams regularly with the FSG policy/strategy (which you seem to think is quite unique and cannot be copied by others), good luck. Only chance in my opinion is if FFP changes the landscape. Please don't talk about Barca, they have regularly bought top players despite having arguably the best youth system in the world and regularly top managers. Top fees they paid are numerous the most recently being Neymar (57m Euro), Fabregas (34m), Villa (40m), Sanchez (26m), Ibrahimovich (69m incl. Eto'o), Eto'o (27m), Alves (35m who we couldn't buy in Rafa days), Saviola (36m), Overmars (40m) even if not all have regularly excelled. I never said that we need to buy all the best players in the world for all our positions, but, I do believe we need to buy a couple of top players or even good players to fill the 4 positions you have mentioned. How much of net would that cost, 75m? If so called investors cannot invest 75m to close the gap so that we can compete for top 4 where the returns can be much more than that over less than 3 seasons (that's a 3 years payback period), I would say they have a different BUSINESS plan. Of course there are no guarantees, in business you need to take risks. That said there is a less risky path which FSG has taken where investment would be much lower and returns though lower would be more certain. As a business man, this is what I would do, but, I am a fan of LFC and not a businessman shareholder, my motivation is not to have FSG to be successful business people with LFC but for us to win top trophies. This is where we differ.
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