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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270 |
You are so full of it...Hyppia was not a household name, nor was Agger, nor was Alonso, nor was Luis Garcia, nor was Arbeloa, nor was Reina, nor was Michu, nor Isco, nor Pedro, nor Tello,....need I go on?
Hyppia was the captain of a Dutch Premier League team, who had qualified for the Champions League, he wasn't as unknown as you seem to think. He also only cost us 2.6m. I could go on for all those players you named, they don't have to be household names to be known in the football world and all these players have come from top sides in their respective countries and just about all had played for their national teams or Champions League football. They were all cheap and not expensive punts like the players we have signed this season.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,270 |
Yes Marko but you are missing the point. Yes Liverpool have signed too payers at cheap prices the best example being Keegan. But we also were in the market for the best players. Now thanks to your friends FSG we have to buy cheap and pray for miracles just like west brom etc.
I've got quite a few friends in Spain who I've known for years and the general concensus seems to be that Aspas has potential, but right now he's a low- mid-table player at best, I think their exact words were he's a Fulham type player. As for Luis Alberto, they weren't nice at all they basically called him a dud and were very surprised we went in for him, I asked them how much they thought he was worth and the average seemed to be about £2-3 million. Personally I don't understand why we are wasting money on positions we don't need to improve, I think everyone will agree that last season we were fine attacking, but crap at defending. There's a few positions which we desperately need to fill and don't see why Brendan is so intent on buying players who can play across the front line. We have essentially already wasted 24 million on 3 players we didn't need, which is exactly like last season when Brendan wasted 26 million on Borini and Allen. Another start like last season and Brendan will be gone.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
Yes Marko but you are missing the point. Yes Liverpool have signed too payers at cheap prices the best example being Keegan. But we also were in the market for the best players. Now thanks to your friends FSG we have to buy cheap and pray for miracles just like west brom etc.
I've got quite a few friends in Spain who I've known for years and the general concensus seems to be that Aspas has potential, but right now he's a low- mid-table player at best, I think their exact words were he's a Fulham type player. As for Luis Alberto, they weren't nice at all they basically called him a dud and were very surprised we went in for him, I asked them how much they thought he was worth and the average seemed to be about £2-3 million. Personally I don't understand why we are wasting money on positions we don't need to improve, I think everyone will agree that last season we were fine attacking, but crap at defending. There's a few positions which we desperately need to fill and don't see why Brendan is so intent on buying players who can play across the front line. We have essentially already wasted 24 million on 3 players we didn't need, which is exactly like last season when Brendan wasted 26 million on Borini and Allen. Another start like last season and Brendan will be gone. If you asked 100 people what they made of players over here, they wouldn't all agree. Many would say Michu is at his peak, as the main man at a mid-table team, others would say he could definitely start for a top team. It is all subjective. If Barcelona were happy enough to loan Alberto, we should be happy enough to sign him, given he did impress upon top critics in Spain. If Aspas is good enough to make the bench for the La Liga team of the year, ahead of Soldado, Negredo and Higuain, then maybe we shouldn't be judging him as a mid-table player. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1565...s-season/page/7That top 10 list of strikers in La Liga puts him at No. 5. Lots of differing opinions makes for great debate, but ultimately we won't know until he plays for us. You judge a player more on what he has done recently, than what he did years ago. He has impressed, therefore we should give him chance to. We need to score goals. All we need is a solid pairing at the back to restrict the opposition. In Mignolet, we have improved on a fairly out-of-sorts man to a guy in form. In Toure, we have replaced our leader, with another one (who is slightly younger, won titles, and has captained a big team). Our defensive record wasn't bad in the end. I expect a big centre-half signing, because we concede more against the big teams, and therefore need a top defender to replace the inconsistent Skrtel, but to say "lets leave the attack to focus on it" seems silly, when a lot of our goals last year came from big wins over bottom of the league teams. We need more invention in the bigger games as much as we need a top centre-half. Plus, few teams play a classic DM anymore. Most top teams have fairly strong players who can tackle and also push higher up the field. Fellaini, Yaya Toure, Carrick, Ramires, (the under-utilised offesnviely) Sandro, (the over-utilised defensively) Diaby... Irrespective of how you rate them, there is no "guy who just tackles and breaks up play."
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
What he means is others will spend more money on bigger names than us. Every player needs to make his name somewhere lets hope the unknowns we've brought will be household names this time next year. It's possible some of them might be nuggets in the rough, but the odds are against it, and anyway it takes a long time to polish these rough diamonds and too many turn out to be false hopes. I hope I'm wrong but this really is a poor man's approach and nine out of ten delivers a poor man's result, we're looking for miracles here, is this what we've come to accept now? You are so full of it...Hyppia was not a household name, nor was Agger, nor was Alonso, nor was Luis Garcia, nor was Arbeloa, nor was Reina, nor was Michu, nor Isco, nor Pedro, nor Tello,....need I go on? And for every one of those you could list 4 -5 times as many who never came good, you also miss the point that its usually selling clubs that unearth these gems in the first place and is that where we're at now?
Last edited by Annefield58; 28/06/13 11:53 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307 |
we're not a selling club yet except to the very biggest clubs but the main players we have sold have been Torres (great deal for the LFC), Masch(to Barca), Meireiles (always thought it was a strange deal but not a bad one) and potentially Suarez (to Real).
There is also a middle ground between selling and buying clubs and just because we are attempting to unearth relatively cheap players does not pidgeon hole us into one or the other
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
we're not a selling club yet except to the very biggest clubs but the main players we have sold have been Torres (great deal for the LFC), Masch(to Barca), Meireiles (always thought it was a strange deal but not a bad one) and potentially Suarez (to Real).
There is also a middle ground between selling and buying clubs and just because we are attempting to unearth relatively cheap players does not pidgeon hole us into one or the other Well I hope you're right Maxi, time will tell, and I suppose a lot will depend on how well Rodgers can develop and mold these hopefuls to his style of play. I think that will be the key as to whether this recruitment policy works out or not. However I'd prefer if we signed a reasonable proportion of quality PL ready players as well as a smattering of cheap young potentials, many of which aren't as cheap as they should be in any case given the associated risks.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
Yes Marko but you are missing the point. Yes Liverpool have signed too payers at cheap prices the best example being Keegan. But we also were in the market for the best players. Now thanks to your friends FSG we have to buy cheap and pray for miracles just like west brom etc.
I've got quite a few friends in Spain who I've known for years and the general concensus seems to be that Aspas has potential, but right now he's a low- mid-table player at best, I think their exact words were he's a Fulham type player. As for Luis Alberto, they weren't nice at all they basically called him a dud and were very surprised we went in for him, I asked them how much they thought he was worth and the average seemed to be about £2-3 million. Personally I don't understand why we are wasting money on positions we don't need to improve, I think everyone will agree that last season we were fine attacking, but crap at defending. There's a few positions which we desperately need to fill and don't see why Brendan is so intent on buying players who can play across the front line. We have essentially already wasted 24 million on 3 players we didn't need, which is exactly like last season when Brendan wasted 26 million on Borini and Allen. Another start like last season and Brendan will be gone. If you asked 100 people what they made of players over here, they wouldn't all agree. Many would say Michu is at his peak, as the main man at a mid-table team, others would say he could definitely start for a top team. It is all subjective. If Barcelona were happy enough to loan Alberto, we should be happy enough to sign him, given he did impress upon top critics in Spain. If Aspas is good enough to make the bench for the La Liga team of the year, ahead of Soldado, Negredo and Higuain, then maybe we shouldn't be judging him as a mid-table player. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1565...s-season/page/7That top 10 list of strikers in La Liga puts him at No. 5. Lots of differing opinions makes for great debate, but ultimately we won't know until he plays for us. You judge a player more on what he has done recently, than what he did years ago. He has impressed, therefore we should give him chance to. We need to score goals. All we need is a solid pairing at the back to restrict the opposition. In Mignolet, we have improved on a fairly out-of-sorts man to a guy in form. In Toure, we have replaced our leader, with another one (who is slightly younger, won titles, and has captained a big team). Our defensive record wasn't bad in the end. I expect a big centre-half signing, because we concede more against the big teams, and therefore need a top defender to replace the inconsistent Skrtel, but to say "lets leave the attack to focus on it" seems silly, when A LOT OF OUR GOALS LAST YEAR CAME FROM BIG WINS OVER BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE TEAMS. WE NEED MORE INVENTION IN THE BIGGER GAMES AS MUCH AS WE NEED A TOP CENTRE-HALF. Plus, few teams play a classic DM anymore. Most top teams have fairly strong players who can tackle and also push higher up the field. Fellaini, Yaya Toure, Carrick, Ramires, (the under-utilised offesnviely) Sandro, (the over-utilised defensively) Diaby... Irrespective of how you rate them, there is no "guy who just tackles and breaks up play." Ok JJ, but doesn't your statement I highlighted above make the point for signing top quality Pl ready players? as these potentials showed us last season that while they can perform against mid to low table teams, they struggle against the quality teams?
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
But getting pre-ready players isn't as easy as people think. Allen struggled for periods of the season, when he had impressed in the Premier League, the opposite of Sturridge who impressed straight away. Coutinho hit the ground running from overseas, where Borini didn't. They are the 4 players signed this year that had opportunities. Adam, Downing and Henderson all struggled. Bellamy and Enrique didn't. It is a mixed bag.
I realise you will say not all of these are top quality, but take a look at our options. Say we wanted a player of Aspas' ilk. We're talking Benteke. We are talking Remy. We are talking Lukaku. All of them would cost more. Benteke and Lukaku a lot more. If there is no value in that market, we can't do it.
Mignolet, for £9-11m, is good value, but Begovic (an alternative) would have cost £5m more. Sometimes it is better to do more of the homework and go overseas, than to spend higher for PL players that could still not offer the same. I think Benteke would be an option if Suarez leaves, but most on here would much rather see someone like Higuain or Muriel come in, and they're all priced similarly.
I mean, I don't know about you, but I'd much rather spend big on Papadopolous or Alderweireld, than spend it on Ashley Williams.
As for the big teams point - you play your best XI, and you need players capable of pushing for places. If you don't have the mental strength, and you're still guaranteed a starting place, then you would loosen up. Your form wouldn't maintain. Our squad and XI are a lot and a bit weaker at the moment. Therefore we need improvements on Downing, Allen/Henderson and Skrtel. We have brought in Aspas. Mkhitaryan is looking likely. A CB is still being scouted, but Toure is a potential short-term stop-gap. I don't understand why we need to sign local to bring in quality?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
But getting pre-ready players isn't as easy as people think. Allen struggled for periods of the season, when he had impressed in the Premier League, the opposite of Sturridge who impressed straight away. Coutinho hit the ground running from overseas, where Borini didn't. They are the 4 players signed this year that had opportunities. Adam, Downing and Henderson all struggled. Bellamy and Enrique didn't. It is a mixed bag.
I realise you will say not all of these are top quality, but take a look at our options. Say we wanted a player of Aspas' ilk. We're talking Benteke. We are talking Remy. We are talking Lukaku. All of them would cost more. Benteke and Lukaku a lot more. If there is no value in that market, we can't do it.
Mignolet, for £9-11m, is good value, but Begovic (an alternative) would have cost £5m more. Sometimes it is better to do more of the homework and go overseas, than to spend higher for PL players that could still not offer the same. I think Benteke would be an option if Suarez leaves, but most on here would much rather see someone like Higuain or Muriel come in, and they're all priced similarly.
I mean, I don't know about you, but I'd much rather spend big on Papadopolous or Alderweireld, than spend it on Ashley Williams.
As for the big teams point - you play your best XI, and you need players capable of pushing for places. If you don't have the mental strength, and you're still guaranteed a starting place, then you would loosen up. Your form wouldn't maintain. Our squad and XI are a lot and a bit weaker at the moment. Therefore we need improvements on Downing, Allen/Henderson and Skrtel. We have brought in Aspas. Mkhitaryan is looking likely. A CB is still being scouted, but Toure is a potential short-term stop-gap. I don't understand why we need to sign local to bring in quality? The risk with proven talents is lower though, however, I agree that the risk exist with all players and all managers have good and bad signings. Buying cheaper players definitely mitigates the financial risk but also increases the risk of failure.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,824 |
The point I want to make, is that...
If you spend time:
1. Researching the player's personality
2. Garnering an in-depth knowledge of their strengths and weakenesses
3. Collating information on their direct contribution and work ethic on the pitch
4. Investigating their quality when played in ways similar to that of the teams existing style
5. Finding out their potential cost/salary
And if you take the time to analyse and assess all of these for all the players that suit what you want, ultimately, you pick the best candidate. Not necessarily the biggest name. Who cares if we could spend £20m on Benteke who hasn't played in a simiar way to us? If we get Aspas and he suits out style better, then spending less money on a less proven talent doesn't make him any more or less of a risk. I'm not for all this proven/unproven signings malarky. If we scout all our players properly, more of them will be successful, irrespective of where they come from or how much they cost.
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