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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307 |
Of course I wouldn't but would you expect us to? We are missing our most important player which you seem to be dismissing as not important to the outcome A team like LFC cannot depend on only one player for a game against a team that has just been promoted. I know Suarez is important but he missed 9 games in a row last season, missing one game happens and will happen to any player. The manager needs to have a fallback option, planning for such cases is his job for god's sake. I cannot see myself going to my Chairman saying that we couldn't reach the company's target because ONE of my subbordinates missed a couple of days work, he would immediately tell me that this is very poor planning and risk management. In any case, Suarez was not played in a number of games (cups) this season and it's nothing new, he cannot anyway play all games, he is only human. The day I stop believing that LFC can beat a newly promoted team will be the day I'll stop following LFC or believe that we do not have the right manager (unless of course the newly promoted team has recruited massively and is on top of the league). We are talking about West Ham and Big Sam FFS (no disrespect but common). Really shows your belief in LFC despite having according to you our best manager in the last 10 years.Reaching our target is not defined by one match though. Our fallback option is currently injured and none of us really know exactly what happened with Dempsey but he should have been another option. Where exactly did I say we have the best manager in the last 10 years? Thats a blatant lie for a starters anyway that I said that I'm also not saying that we can't beat West Ham but you are displaying arrogance above our current station to be honest.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
One thing I would agree with you though, our current position is crap and IMO we are underperforming. Our team is much better than our current position and better that West Ham. You might not agree but this is what I think. I don't understand how some people believe that suddenly we have become a botton half of the table team, when did it last happen to us, can't remember.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
One thing I would agree with you though, our current position is crap and IMO we are underperforming. Our team is much better than our current position and better that West Ham. You might not agree but this is what I think. I don't understand how some people believe that suddenly we have become a botton half of the table team, when did it last happen to us, can't remember. Aswell as us underperforming, I think our current position is largely in part to a few teams above us overperforming too. I can't see the likes of West Brom, West Ham (and even Stoke or Swansea) keeping up their current run of good form.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Sorry, forgot to ask you Maxi, who according to you was a better manager at LFC than BR in the last 10 years? I was wrong to make that assumption but please help me clear this.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307 |
One thing I would agree with you though, our current position is crap and IMO we are underperforming. Our team is much better than our current position and better that West Ham. You might not agree but this is what I think. I don't understand how some people believe that suddenly we have become a botton half of the table team, when did it last happen to us, can't remember. We are not a bottom of the table team but there are very few teams that would go to West Ham as they are playing and expect a victory. I would say that United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Spurs but everyone else is in a 50/50. Sorry, forgot to ask you Maxi, who according to you was a better manager at LFC than BR in the last 10 years? I was wrong to make that assumption but please help me clear this. Rafa would be our best manager in the last 10 years imo. BR has a way to go to match Rafa but I believe he can do that with the exception of winning the Champions League
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926 |
Of course I wouldn't but would you expect us to? We are missing our most important player which you seem to be dismissing as not important to the outcome A team like LFC cannot depend on only one player for a game against a team that has just been promoted. I know Suarez is important but he missed 9 games in a row last season, missing one game happens and will happen to any player. The manager needs to have a fallback option, planning for such cases is his job for god's sake. I cannot see myself going to my Chairman saying that we couldn't reach the company's target because ONE of my subbordinates missed a couple of days work, he would immediately tell me that this is very poor planning and risk management. In any case, Suarez was not played in a number of games (cups) this season and it's nothing new, he cannot anyway play all games, he is only human. The day I stop believing that LFC can beat a newly promoted team will be the day I'll stop following LFC or believe that we do not have the right manager (unless of course the newly promoted team has recruited massively and is on top of the league). We are talking about West Ham and Big Sam FFS (no disrespect but common). Really shows your belief in LFC despite having according to you our best manager in the last 10 years. This is an opportunity to look at Morgan, Yesil or Pacheco. We might actually do quite well without the "Suarez pressure" in the game. I remember a few years ago when Gerrard, our only player who could score, got injured - and we went on a winning streak. Exactly, we played more than half a season without Gerrard last season, Suarez missed 9 games in a row. How can we expect Suarez not to miss anygame?
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,562
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,562 |
So losing more games means we have progressed....I think we have a different definition in mind for the word progress. way to read vish's other posts on the matter and then selectively reduce his argument with a condescending and self-aggrandising stance. i normally like your posts but, this is uncharacteristically snide.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679 |
Next 5 games
West Ham (A)
Aston Villa (H)
Fulham (H)
Stoke (A)
QPR(A)
10-12 points would be a good return from these 5 games I think, especially as we will be missing Suarez for the West Ham game. These are the teams we should expect to beat, even W.Ham, at least 12 for me to show progress. For me we have still not shown proper progress so far as we got only 8 points in the last 5 games. 10 was the target. personally i'd be more inclined to judge progress by league position rather than points. if after these games we are in 8th, we are no better/worse than how we finised last season, higher than that and we'd be on course to finish higher than last (with a transfer window to come). not sure if others feel this way? nope has to be judged points wise if your looking to see if we have improved as a team, progress can't be finishing higher in the table but more losses and draws not to mention less wins... No joe I'm afraid that's far too simplistic. If you were to approach it with logical and intelligent analysis you would understand and appreciate that we aren't the only variable that has changed from last year. There are 19 other teams, all better/worse than last year. This means that your method of analysis would only work if all those teams were exactly as good as they were last year. We measure progress by where we are in the table, this is because it takes into account in might be a particularly tough year to pick up wins (i.e. everyone is a lot stronger at home etc) or conversely, an easy year where all of the upper league teams are winning. League position can be the only valid method of comparison, as it is the fairest by a country mile.
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 791
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 791 |
The way I look at it is by averages.
1 point a game = near relegation (38 points)
2 points a game = champions league (76 points)
So for five matches....
our current average overall = 1.26 ppg (points per game)
5 or < = 1.0 ppg "kill me now"
6 - 7 = 1.2 - 1.4 "SAME OLD STORY"
8 - 9 = 1.6 - 1.8 "Shows real progress"
10 or > = 2.0 "maybe forth isn't dreaming"
I'd be happy with 2w 2d 1l
09/10 = 63 points (7th) 10/11 = 58 points (6th) 11/12 = 52 points (8th) I think if we hit 60 points then that shows progress, as the current trend is the opposite direction. Currently 1.26 per game = 48 points
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 983
Under 18 Player
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Under 18 Player
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 983 |
personally i'd be more inclined to judge progress by league position rather than points. if after these games we are in 8th, we are no better/worse than how we finised last season, higher than that and we'd be on course to finish higher than last (with a transfer window to come).
not sure if others feel this way? [/quote]nope has to be judged points wise if your looking to see if we have improved as a team, progress can't be finishing higher in the table but more losses and draws not to mention less wins... [/quote]
No joe I'm afraid that's far too simplistic. If you were to approach it with logical and intelligent analysis you would understand and appreciate that we aren't the only variable that has changed from last year. There are 19 other teams, all better/worse than last year. This means that your method of analysis would only work if all those teams were exactly as good as they were last year. We measure progress by where we are in the table, this is because it takes into account in might be a particularly tough year to pick up wins (i.e. everyone is a lot stronger at home etc) or conversely, an easy year where all of the upper league teams are winning. League position can be the only valid method of comparison, as it is the fairest by a country mile. [/quote]
teams dont change that much in a year, they may move up or down three or four places but are usualy around about the same, the teams fighting for the League remain also the teams fighting relegation are normaly joined by the newly promoted teams. If we finished with 63 points this season but finished 10 for me it would show better progress than finishing 8th with 48 points...
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