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Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
Maxi88 #289089 04/12/12 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Maxi88
So you do expect to beat them? Despite the fact that they just beat Chelsea 3-1 and had the same net spend as us and we are without our top scorer?

I don't get what relevance them loaning Andy Carroll has to anything? He wasn't going to fit into our plans and went to a team where the manager knows him well and they play a style far more suited to them?


Of course I expect us to win, Chelsea should have finished the game in the first half but missed a number of chances and paid for it. If I stop expecting LFC to beat teams that were just promoted, I don't know which teams I should expect us to beat, should it only be those fighting in the relegation zone? Common, cannot believe that we are that bad.

Last edited by vish mauritius; 04/12/12 04:10 PM.
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
drome #289095 04/12/12 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: drome
that makes no sense to me.

taking your point here to it's logical conclusion would indicate that points tally is more important than league position?

for example man utd won the league in 2000-01 with 80pts. we finished 2nd in 2008-09 with 86pts. which of those two things would you prefer joe? points count or the league position?

Great question! Dying to hear the answer..

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Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
#289105 04/12/12 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Divide et Impera
Originally Posted By: vish mauritius
Originally Posted By: Maxi88
So you're saying that they are not a good team? I hope our players show them a bit more respect than you have anyway and don't underestimate them.

Do you expect to beat them? Even if we had Suarez I wouldn't expect to beat them but I would class us as 50/50. Without Suarez it will be a lot tougher although I still think we can dominate the game but might struggle to have that cutting edge.

Considering with over 100 mil worth of buys last season we only managed to accumulate 1 point in these fixtures (swapping Bolton for West Ham) I don't expect a victory over all of them anyway

West Ham also had a net spend of 18mil not including Andy Carroll. We had a net spend of 20mil not including money recd for Andy Carroll. What is your point there exactly?


Never said they were bad but we would be if we cannot expect to beat them, they just got promoted and we were 8th last year + we spent more than them re-inforcing shipping one of our players on loan because he was not good enough for us. Do you get the point?


If they are not 'bad' why does it make us 'bad' if we lose to them away from home and without suarez?



They are not bad but we should be better
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
Bar #289108 04/12/12 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bar
Originally Posted By: drome
that makes no sense to me.

taking your point here to it's logical conclusion would indicate that points tally is more important than league position?

for example man utd won the league in 2000-01 with 80pts. we finished 2nd in 2008-09 with 86pts. which of those two things would you prefer joe? points count or the league position?

Great question! Dying to hear the answer..


He is saying to see progress, which I agree. If we gather more points than last season I'd make that to be progress, if those points put us at a lower league position it just means other teams have progressed more than us.

The same as if we were to finish higher up but with less points? does that show progress or that other teams have just had a worse season.

Last edited by Divide et Impera; 04/12/12 04:25 PM.
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
#289110 04/12/12 04:24 PM
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For me, this is proof that the answer is not black and white - as some would make it out to be. Calculating 'progress' isn't an exact science.

*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO

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Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
Bar #289113 04/12/12 04:29 PM
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league position dictates all to me. if we're higher than 8th...we've progressed. i don't see a science to it at all. i'm really unconcerned about other teams points tallies. i just want to know that we finised above them.

i would go along with the theory that the table doesn't lie. we finished 8th last season cos we were pretty much the 8th best team.
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
drome #289114 04/12/12 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: drome
league position dictates all to me. if we're higher than 8th...we've progressed. i don't see a science to it at all. i'm really unconcerned about other teams points tallies. i just want to know that we finised above them.

i would go along with the theory that the table doesn't lie. we finished 8th last season cos we were pretty much the 8th best team.

Personally, I agree that position takes precedence over points total, but I do see joecool's point that points total can present a marker of progress too. I just don't agree that it's more important than placement.

We finished 8th with 52 points last season. I think if we finished 9th, I'd be very disappointed, but if we finished 9th with 58 or 59 points then it'd be a consolation and I'd say fair enough, we have amassed more wins and draws than last season. Neither train of thought is without merit.

*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO

'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
#289115 04/12/12 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Divide et Impera
Originally Posted By: Bar
Originally Posted By: drome
that makes no sense to me.

taking your point here to it's logical conclusion would indicate that points tally is more important than league position?

for example man utd won the league in 2000-01 with 80pts. we finished 2nd in 2008-09 with 86pts. which of those two things would you prefer joe? points count or the league position?

Great question! Dying to hear the answer..


He is saying to see progress, which I agree. If we gather more points than last season I'd make that to be progress, if those points put us at a lower league position it just means other teams have progressed more than us.

The same as if we were to finish higher up but with less points? does that show progress or that other teams have just had a worse season.


For me it's better position that shows progress because progress or regress can only be judged relative to other teams IMO and the league position does just that.
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
EnergisedReds #289116 04/12/12 04:43 PM
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So if we gain a higher position in the Table but lose more games with a lower points total, you will take it as us making progress as a team?

Last edited by Divide et Impera; 04/12/12 04:46 PM.
Re: Top 4 is the target for this season - official
Bar #289117 04/12/12 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bar
For me, this is proof that the answer is not black and white - as some would make it out to be. Calculating 'progress' isn't an exact science.


It can be an exact science if you set a target and usually in a league your target would be Champions, Qualify for Champions league, Europa league, not get relegated. All these depend on position.
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