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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,291 |
Shearer did ok from what I remember and Drogba wasn't bad in the goals department either...
With regards to the price tag, whether you like it or not, if you cost £35mil and are striker, you are expected to produce, plain and simple.
I actually like Carroll but I think his price tag will finish him at Liverpool.
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thundyr
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thundyr
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Shearer did ok from what I remember and Drogba wasn't bad in the goals department either... At 22? Drogba was a beast at 27, yes. But at 22? Not so much. Shearer, commonly regarded as one of, if not THE, best English striker ever, scored a mere 22 in all competitions with Blackburn the year he was as old as Carroll is now (in a side built around him). So yes, maybe Carroll isn't better than Shearer, but then Liverpool is not built around Carroll. But he is better than a host of others. Remind me how long it took Peter Crouch to score for Liverpool... With regards to the price tag, whether you like it or not, if you cost £35mil and are striker, you are expected to produce, plain and simple. I'm not blind to his price tag - if you cost 35m you must perform regardless of which position you play. But you need to understand that there are things a person can do and things a person cannot do. Carroll didn't set his transfer fee - if people overvalued him there's not much he can do about it. Some people might be capable of opening their minds enough to understand that. Carroll is a target man striker. That means he's there to chip in with goals, but mainly to act as a final third platform for the team. I actually like Carroll but I think his price tag will finish him at Liverpool. I disagree with this as well. Were his purchase price lower he would probably already be gone. I happen to think selling him would be a mistake, so perhaps it's for the best. If Carroll is serious about playing for Liverpool, then he could be an excellent player for us.
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longmoorlane
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longmoorlane
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I don't see a lot of improvements. All we have done for the last few years is sell one player to buy another one of equal or lesser quality. There might be 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule but who have we bought recently which has been an upgrade on their predecessor?
Carroll is worse than Torres
Henderson is no better/worse than Poulsen
Borini for Kuyt? jury is out
Johnson is worse than Arbeloa
Adam is worse than Meireles
Downing is no better/worse than babel/reira
If all we are doing is spending money to appease the fans whilst not improving the team then I'd prefer it if we skipped a transfer window and 'saved up' for someone worth having.
Don't agree with all that, Carroll scored more goals last season than Torres, maybe you're stuck in or around 3 seasons ago, when Torres could play a bit. I also think you're being too pessimistic, given that we will be a very different proposition this season with a new manager, new style of playing, Lucas back Suarez unlikely to be out for several critical games as he was last season, Gerrard likely (and already looking) to be fitter than he was when he came back after his awful injury last season. In addition we have added a new signing, (Borini) and likely to sign Allen (players known to suit BRs style of play) and possibly one or two more. Added to all that we are most unlikely to see another season as freakish in front of goal as we had last season. In my opinion that all adds up to a pretty good reason to be optimistic, for me a top 4 finish is a possibility, I don't say a probability, but it is a possibility and until it becomes impossible I'll remain optimistic. You've got your facts wrong. Carroll did NOT score more than Torres last season. And even when Torres was firing blanks he was still playing very well and creating a lot for his team mates. I'm not sure whether Borini suits BR's tactics as he hasn't played under him for a while. As for Allen....well, it's all well and good knowing how BR plays but I'm not sure how useful that will be when he has the likes of henderson, adam and spearing beside him! I can't see us doing worse than last year but I can't see us doing much better either.....Here's how I think the top 8 will finish.. 1st Man City - not a hope in hell of finishing above them 2nd Man Utd - see above 3rd Chelsea - fa cup winners, champions league winners and already better than us before they bought marin, hazard & oscar 4th Arsenal - finished 17 points above us with a 20+ goal difference advantage, PLUS they have bought some very good players this summer. No chance of them finishing outside the top4 5th Spurs - Finished way ahead of us and despite losing Redknapp, they still have a very good squad 6th Newcastle - no reason why would they do any worse next season 7th Liverpool - without Kenny we must surely improve but our squad is a bit thin at present 8th Everton - could be very close between us & everton. They will have Jelavic for a whole season this time around and have strengthened other areas as well. Amazing, you have just summed up the top eight places and the reasons why which I have been trying to convince people on here with for a while now. 100 per cent correct, Bang on the money, nail on head, get paid, done and dusted and weighed in all spring to mind when describing the above post. Top 6 is extremely unlikely in fact we have more chance of finishing lower than last season than finishing there and those claiming there is a small chance of 4th place obviously dont watch Liverpool to see how bad we are.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128 |
Oh would you change the record.
You have already made your view clear so repeating it endlessly is really unnecessary.
At what stage will you stop whingeing and actually start trying to support the team?
What football fan doesn't hope for the very best for his/her team at the start of each new season?
Answers on a postcard to the "man with many names".
Last edited by Shaggydog; 09/08/12 06:44 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
Torres 2011-2012: 11 goals, 49 appearances (all competitions)
Carroll 2011-2012: 9 goals, 47 apps
Very similar, all things considered. "Carroll worse than Torres"? Perhaps, but not by much. Considering Carroll is not meant to be our primary goal scorer, while Torres has that role for Chelsea, frankly I prefer our chances.
I wouldn't put money on us finishing ahead of the Manchester clubs and the gunners. Chelsea, Spurs, and Newcastle are all fair game though. Why do I think this? Because we will have a plan. Last season we had no plan and that was mainly what got between us and them. Chances of Cisse and Ba both being excellent when the other is not? Not good, I expect. Chances of Di Matteo improving on his poor performance in the EPL? Not much. Spurs ended the season badly without Adebayor's goals, and there's no guarantee that whoever they sign will improve them by more.
We will be in the mix for 4th. We might not have enough in the tank to finish in the top 4, but we will be in the mix. Chelsea 'fair game' for us to pip to 4th spot?? You may be losing the plot Thundyr. We could argue all day about it but I bet you wouldn't be willing to bet much money that Liverpool finish above Chelsea, Spurs AND Newcastle. I think the maximum position we can finish in next season (realistically) is 6th. That would mean overtaking an improved Everton and a very good Newcastle side, with a smaller and less experienced squad than we had last year. 6th would be a huge ask, but not impssible. Anyone expecting us to finish higher will be very disaapointed.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128
1st Team Regular
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1st Team Regular
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,128 |
Would you be happy with 6th place Car?
I suppose it would be progress
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longmoorlane
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longmoorlane
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Oh would you change the record.
You have already made your view clear so repeating it endlessly is really unnecessary.
At what stage will you stop whingeing and actually start trying to support the team?
What football fan doesn't hope for the very best for his/her team at the start of each new season?
Answers on a postcard to the "man with many names".
alrite then I hope we win the league, european cup,league cup, f.a.cup, boat race, wimbledon, the ryder cup, the p.g.a golf and the next tour de france, hows that then man of no reality.
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thundyr
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thundyr
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We will be in the mix for 4th. We might not have enough in the tank to finish in the top 4, but we will be in the mix. Chelsea 'fair game' for us to pip to 4th spot?? You may be losing the plot Thundyr. We could argue all day about it but I bet you wouldn't be willing to bet much money that Liverpool finish above Chelsea, Spurs AND Newcastle. I know it's late in the day, but I kinda thought I expressed I had some doubt? And suggesting we may finish in the top 4 would (incredibly, it seems) suggest we would have to finish ahead of Chelsea, Spurs AND Newcastle (or two of those and one of last season's top 3). Thank you for summing up my post.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595 |
I don't see a lot of improvements. All we have done for the last few years is sell one player to buy another one of equal or lesser quality. There might be 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule but who have we bought recently which has been an upgrade on their predecessor?
Carroll is worse than Torres
Henderson is no better/worse than Poulsen
Borini for Kuyt? jury is out
Johnson is worse than Arbeloa
Adam is worse than Meireles
Downing is no better/worse than babel/reira
If all we are doing is spending money to appease the fans whilst not improving the team then I'd prefer it if we skipped a transfer window and 'saved up' for someone worth having.
Don't agree with all that, Carroll scored more goals last season than Torres, maybe you're stuck in or around 3 seasons ago, when Torres could play a bit. I also think you're being too pessimistic, given that we will be a very different proposition this season with a new manager, new style of playing, Lucas back Suarez unlikely to be out for several critical games as he was last season, Gerrard likely (and already looking) to be fitter than he was when he came back after his awful injury last season. In addition we have added a new signing, (Borini) and likely to sign Allen (players known to suit BRs style of play) and possibly one or two more. Added to all that we are most unlikely to see another season as freakish in front of goal as we had last season. In my opinion that all adds up to a pretty good reason to be optimistic, for me a top 4 finish is a possibility, I don't say a probability, but it is a possibility and until it becomes impossible I'll remain optimistic. You've got your facts wrong. Carroll did NOT score more than Torres last season. And even when Torres was firing blanks he was still playing very well and creating a lot for his team mates. I'm not sure whether Borini suits BR's tactics as he hasn't played under him for a while. As for Allen....well, it's all well and good knowing how BR plays but I'm not sure how useful that will be when he has the likes of henderson, adam and spearing beside him! I can't see us doing worse than last year but I can't see us doing much better either.....Here's how I think the top 8 will finish.. 1st Man City - not a hope in hell of finishing above them 2nd Man Utd - see above 3rd Chelsea - fa cup winners, champions league winners and already better than us before they bought marin, hazard & oscar 4th Arsenal - finished 17 points above us with a 20+ goal difference advantage, PLUS they have bought some very good players this summer. No chance of them finishing outside the top4 5th Spurs - Finished way ahead of us and despite losing Redknapp, they still have a very good squad 6th Newcastle - no reason why would they do any worse next season 7th Liverpool - without Kenny we must surely improve but our squad is a bit thin at present 8th Everton - could be very close between us & everton. They will have Jelavic for a whole season this time around and have strengthened other areas as well. Ok maybe Torres nicked one or two at the seasons end , but even if he did it's neither here nor there when comparing performance the margin would have to be higher. As to Borini he has played under BR and was also coached by BR at Chelsea so yes BR knows he suits his style. As to who plays beside him you don't know who that might be as of now, it may not include Henderson, Adam or Spearing, so I don't see the relevance of that remark. I note you failed to address my point about the return of Lucas, the improved fitness of Gerrard, a new manager, new style of play, the unlikely-hood of loosing Suarez for a significant number of matches. All in all a pretty selective response. Seems like you want to push negatives regardless of the arguments to the contrary.
Last edited by Annefield58; 09/08/12 07:03 PM.
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thundyr
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thundyr
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If football was only based on the quality of the team, then you'd be right, and everything would be predictable, and Man City will win the league. But will they? How sure are you? Chelsea had a good side last year, top 4 side, and they sacked their manager and finished 5th. Things don't work as expected, and things are even more random when you have a new manager, like Chelsea and Spurs.
You say 6th is a huge ask, I think 6th is where we should be (meaning the manager has done just an ok job, not ven a good job) and 7th is probably the minimum expected. I don't think we'll get 4th, and your views are sensible but football is a lot mroe unpredictable than this. Actually Chelsea sacked their manager when they were 5th. They finished 6th. What I find amusing is that no one's thinking "Swansea finished 9 places higher than they should have with arguably the weakest squad in the division, so maybe it's not all about the value or supposed strength on paper of the squad". We also happen to now have their manager. People expecting us to finish 8th or worse are also likely to be very disappointed.
Last edited by thundyr; 09/08/12 07:06 PM.
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