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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679 |
mybloodisred, just as you have to look at the whole picture on stats to judge Carroll (and I agree it was a poor season), you also have to look at the whole picture to judge conversion stats. We had one of the worst conversion rates of any team in the league, almost all of our players looked bad on that stat. That's not a coincidence, nor does Suarez seem to have this problem at international level or anywhere else he has been. This is a function of the type of chances we had. Which were low quality, caused by the way we played. We had one man in the box most of the time when attacking. Two if we were lucky. That's defensive, no matter how it's spun. When QPR over-ran us, they had 6 or 7 players in there. Man City get a similar number in the box at times. it's the simple things that matter most. I agree we didn't get enough in the box most of the time. Without a doubt that's true. But that was the midfielders not supporting. But they wern't being defensive, they just took up poor attacking positions. In no way was our football defensive for most of last season in my opinion. Also I totally agree suarez for previous club and Uruguay has amazing scoring stats, but I think your fundamentally wrong about our 'type' of chances. If you look through chances he missed, he missed some absolute fuc!ing sitters on many many occaisions last season. Carroll less so but he still missed sitters. We created lots of quality chances we didn't put away. I would suggest they are in poor attacking positions because they're being asked to hold formation, for defensive reasons. Bit like when you see Hodgson's England with 8 men holding formation all the time. When England do get the ball, you can't expect these guys to get in good attacking positions, it's impossible. I've seen good chances missed sure, but that's the case everywhere. I haven't seen as many good chances created as at of the other top clubs with the exception of Everton. And many of Suarez good chances, weren't really chances at all. He created them from great skill by beating a couple of defenders in many instances. I expect this season we will have less shots from range, and we'll have a better chance conversion ratio from almost all of our attacking players. And it will be all down to tactics. I think this is where we just have a difference of opinion mate. Our tactics were nothing like England's in my eyes, we were far more attacking than them, played a lot of possession football, I mean I just see literally no comparisons to be made. We played completely different styles of football in my opinion. Also someone posted it a while back I don't know if you saw it, but chances within a certain distance to goal, and we had many more than all of the teams higher than us bar 2 I think it was. I just think your wrong about how many good chances we had, I saw good chances being missed week in week out that both our strikers should have put away most definitely. I'm hoping after more time in the PL suarez will get used to the step up in keepers and this will improve his conversion ratio.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
again with the pointless stats Stats may not paint a FULL picture but to say they are pointless is absurb.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,679 |
Personally I think BR wants Carroll out of Liverpool FC for at least 1 to 2 years if not forever.
Why ?
(1) BR did not sign AC
(2) BR does not want to be asked every week WHY he didn't play AC
(3) AC does not fis his style of play
(4) BR being asked why he didn't bring on AC or that her hasn't played in 4 or 5 games for LFC - IT IS A HUGE DISTRACTION and BR wants RID of the Kenny Dalglish 35M Monkey.
I am sure BR has said to FSG that he likes AC but he has to go to allow him a clean slate to start with a FRESH and CLEAN sheet. I think no.4 is the only issue. That's why I think he will be moved on. Carroll can absolutely play like Danny Graham as far as I'm concerned. But there is always gonna be too much pressure for him to have the time to adapt, and he will need time. This is aimed at the people ridiculing stats. Statistical analysis is an incredibly useful and accurate tool in analysing games, situations performances. It is not the only way, and should not be used without more subjective things like 'reading a game', all of these things are important. But to dismiss all stats as pointless is an absolutely ridiculous statement. In relation to Andy Carroll. You don't need stats to see how terrible he was last year. 2 games does not save a season. But that doesn't mean he won't play better next year, I just don't think we have the time he needs.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
so very pointless.
sport stats are clung to by those who cannot read a game and dont understand sport and its many factors. stats on strikers dont take into account supply to striker/ morale at the club/ system being played/ coaching/ instruction being given.... to name but sa few.
with that said if BR feels andy needs to go he needs to go, but im sure he didnt decide off a spreadsheet. more likely he used the magic of sight. How would you define the supply to a striker without using 'pointless' stats?
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,307 |
You can look at chances created but that doesn't indicate the quality of chance
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,262
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,262 |
yep that's a very good point it should say clear cut chances
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,205
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,205 |
so very pointless.
sport stats are clung to by those who cannot read a game and dont understand sport and its many factors. stats on strikers dont take into account supply to striker/ morale at the club/ system being played/ coaching/ instruction being given.... to name but sa few.
with that said if BR feels andy needs to go he needs to go, but im sure he didnt decide off a spreadsheet. more likely he used the magic of sight. How would you define the supply to a striker without using 'pointless' stats? Is this a wind up!?!?! Errrrrrrm.... I dunno, by watching the game..
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,262
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,262 |
yes maybe carheex doesn't watch games but reads stats
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
so very pointless.
sport stats are clung to by those who cannot read a game and dont understand sport and its many factors. stats on strikers dont take into account supply to striker/ morale at the club/ system being played/ coaching/ instruction being given.... to name but sa few.
with that said if BR feels andy needs to go he needs to go, but im sure he didnt decide off a spreadsheet. more likely he used the magic of sight. How would you define the supply to a striker without using 'pointless' stats? Is this a wind up!?!?! Errrrrrrm.... I dunno, by watching the game.. You've completely misunderstood my point!
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craney91
Unregistered
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craney91
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He's using stats to try and back his opinion, however the fact of the matter is, stats for certain things, do not paint the actual picture.
It was laughable to see carheex compare Ibrahimovic to Carroll. Comparing them both at this point, a seasoned 30 year old striker, to a 23 year old striker with 1 season in the Prem. 1 season people like him keep banging on about not showing it for long enough and why did we sign him of the back of 1 season? etc etc
If you actually compare both of them at the same points in their career, when the comparison is relevant, you will actually find that they were not to dissimilar and the stats are virtually identical.
Also, look at Drogba's first season.
Carroll was being poorly managed all season, amongst other things, poor service, partly down to him also, but it hindered his overall output and shine last season. At the end of the season, when they started managing him better, he started getting more confidence and playing better. That is undeniable by even the most deluded fan.
But carheex would also bash on Kenny to, but bash on Carroll as if they didnt even co-exist at the club.
Anything that gives him an erection I guess?
Last edited by craney91; 12/07/12 08:28 PM.
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