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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Originally Posted By: cjkent
This summer is so important for so many different reasons nothing must be rushed


No I agree but FSG have had plenty time to mull this over. Dalglish comments that we need to wait until after the Swansea game are nonesense. I undertand why Kenny said it but its not for him to decide. FSG will have been discussing this for months you can bet on that. They might give him more time we will have to see. If they do it will be because their plans are not finalised and they could not give a new manager answers at this point. In which case what about their customers who are paying for a team on hold?


scenarios you make up in your head are not real..
study this


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Originally Posted By: kennymuststay
Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Originally Posted By: Desh
No matter what all you people who want dalglish gone it wont happen he'll be given another season to get it right from the start and if he stalls like the beginning of this season no excuses and he will be asked to step down


Thats the worry I have. That would be a disaster scrabbling around for a new manager mid season. If you chosse to stick with Dalglish you need to give him a whole season unless the ideal manager is free nid season (unlikely) We were all told beginning of FSG reign how savvy they were. If so I expect they will have worked this situation out well before now. I don't know baseball but if I had £300m plus tied up in it I would damn sure find out and after 18 months I expect them to know what they are doing now.


Absolutely. In my line of work I deal with wealthy people who invest in businesses, and these people are obviously no where near the tycoons of FSG, but I can tell you now, within 3 months they go from knowing very little about a area to being tantamount to experts if they have a significant amount of money invested in it.

The whole FSG don't know about football thing was true maybe a year ago, but it isn't true now. They will have had experts detailing what football is all about, majour players and teams, what has worked what hasn't etc etc from day 1. Not 'knowing' about football will have been a way to buy them a little time in the eyes of fans should initial decisions go sour.

The only thing they might not 'get' is the Liverpool way, what the club means etc etc but I for one am enormously grateful for that. This pretentious our club deserves this that and the other, or us fans deserve more than other fans, and even we need a manager who 'gets Liverpool' sh!t has held our club back for over a decade. We need winners. The best players in the world now don't give a toss about all the things that had us starry eyed in our hay day. They don't care what Kenny did as manager and player 20 years ago. If we want to get to the top we need to be objective and push the club forward forgoing some of the sentiment that has ruled us for so long.
I was sad to see Kuyt essentially wave goodbye to us on Tuesday night as were those standing around me in the stand, and I thought oh I wish he could have stayed as a bit part player, but objectively he won't be a great loss if we replace him with some serious talent from abroad who many would deem a mercenary. Well sorry but that's what wins the football war nowadays. We have time to spread the 'Liverpool way' mantra when we are back near the top.

(Before anyone says, this wasn't aimed at anyone who thinks Kenny should stay as I'm sure that isn't just because of sentiment, I would hope its out of thinking he is genuinely the right man.)



the fact we haven't had a manager that gets lfc,in the last decades, is the reason why we are in crap

roy evans was the last b4 kenny coming back and he nearly got us there but was sacked too early and not backed properly.
even thommo's temp time as manager saw a brief apperance of pass and move football.
fsg be best not doing the american thing of sacking willy nilly. isn't there baseball team in crap now too. they be best trusting kenny signing the cheques and keeping quiet.


No the problem is that some fans still think there is something to 'get' at LFC. There isn't. If we want to be at the top, it is we who have to 'get' modern football.

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Originally Posted By: kennymuststay
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Worst managers we have ever had Dalglish and Hodgson the last two which is why we are in mid table.


not having that..rafa inherited a champs league team . and stevie g won the bloody champs league by himself. kenny inherited a mid table side and has to rebuild and there are better and more expensive teams around than in rafa's time.


Ummm no. Cause That team didn't win the champions league before Rafa was in charge did they wink Rafa made it a champions league winning team. And you are telling me that other teams win big trophies without their best player having a stormer from game to game? Do me a favour.

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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Originally Posted By: cjkent
This summer is so important for so many different reasons nothing must be rushed


No I agree but FSG have had plenty time to mull this over. Dalglish comments that we need to wait until after the Swansea game are nonesense. I undertand why Kenny said it but its not for him to decide. FSG will have been discussing this for months you can bet on that. They might give him more time we will have to see. If they do it will be because their plans are not finalised and they could not give a new manager answers at this point. In which case what about their customers who are paying for a team on hold?


I think the "we" he refers to here is the fans and the press. I don't think that FSG will have their minds swayed by the Swansea result, though it is true that we can retake 7th if Everton score fewer points than us on the day (they host a Newcastle side that needs the win, so there is hope for us). The critical thing in the league for me is the gap to 4th rather than 7th place. At the season mid-point I suggested that 70 points would most likely guarantee CL qualification, and as is stands only Arsenal (in 3rd) can reach that total. However we can get at most 55 points this season, 15 points off the pace, and if a 9 point deficit is huge, then 15 is a Godzilla-sized hole. We also have a single figure goal difference which is not good enough, and stems from our general malaise in front of goal (7 penalty misses alone). Those two aspects cannot be overturned during the course of one game, so if Kenny was destined to stay now a loss would not see a change of heart and if he was destined for the sack a 5-0 away win would probably not be enough to keep him in place.

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Originally Posted By: thundyr
Originally Posted By: Snakeye
Some interesting views on our future. I really have this positive gut feeling for the foreseeable future but I will keep my expectations intact this time around and so should you. We all expect a top4 finish that is fine but I think we should be calm going into this summer. I am praying everyday that the club makes the right signings this season and makes good decisions whether to keep Kenny in charge or not. If everything falls nicely in place, we could be a decent team next season, I will not expect a top4 finish tho because with our squad now I can't see it happening again as other clubs (United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs) are looking to strengthen again and have already started(Podolski, Marin). I'm hoping this gut feeling I have is realised soon.


I'm still on the fence re: Kenny staying or going. What I'm not on the fence about is that we must review this season, analyse it, and identify where our strengths and weaknesses lie. We must then buy players that either complement these strengths or help shore up the weaknesses (preferably both, but such players tend to have heavy wage demands so I wouldn't expect them to sign for us). The reason I doubt Dalglish and his coaching team is that for far too long we ignored obvious squad issues, correctly identifying only one aspect (that Skrtel was becoming better than Carragher).

My thinking along the "Dalglish should go/stay" line is this: Last season we needed a father-figure to come in an stabilize the ship. Dalglish was the only choice, and he succeeded at the task remarkably well. This season we needed the same kind of manager, the same arm around the shoulders father-figure, because we made a significant number of squad changes, including being forced to retool the midfield due to injuries to Gerrard and Lucas. A tactician like Benitez may have given us better results, but not perhaps without treading on someone's feelings in the process, something to be avoided when talking about the ages of the players we have.

So the question is "Do we need the same kind of manager next season?" The squad looks a bit more settled, and now we need someone with a more analytical side to get the best out of the players. Dalglish does not strike me as an analyst, but he has Steve Clark at his side supposedly for that, and has either been ignoring the man's advice or has felt the advice was incorrect. However you don't see too many players being critical of the manager (not that they would do so openly, but one can read between the lines), so I think Dalglish still has his finger on the pulse of the feeling within the squad despite our league position. A new man replacing someone they respected, someone who helped them break a 6 season trophy drought, might take 6 months to be accepted by the squad, by which time it may be too late to save the season (again).

I have never believed that change for change's sake was wise, and while I fully appreciate that finishing outside the top 6 is a failure of the mandate of a LFC manager, replacing Dalglish seems unnecessary at this point. In the last 20 years, only Benitez had us qualify for the CL season by season, and we had so much deadwood to clear 12 months ago that maybe our top 4 aspirations were too lofty. There is no difference between 5th and 10th if you win a cup, after all, and it was clear that the players lost heart after the Arsenal game - where we outplayed them, but lost, and with it went the 4th place carrot.

So if Dalglish can learn to heed tactical advice, or if we make the correct decisions regarding our tactics regardless of who thinks them up, I don't see why we can't be a better team next season with Dalglish in charge. It's not like we finished outside the top 10 and lost in the first round in each cup - that kind of manager you sack immediately. We performed at around 75% of our potential in the league, and near 90% in the cups. Dalglish has been average, not poor, and I think we're largely over our growing pains.

Before I'm accused of sentimentality let me just say that I have no problem with Dalglish being replaced - there are sufficient negatives to take from the season that suggest he's not the best man for the job. But there are positives that some people all too readily ignore in their crusade against a manager who has not done as badly as many like to believe - a belief driven by their own 'sentimentality' that this manager sank the club two decades ago. I prefer to judge Dalglish on the 18 months he's been at the helm, and that I still find myself optimistic at this stage of the season suggests to me that sacking him is not necessarily the only way forward.


I totally understand where your coming from mate, I am one of those people who are also on the fence, I know a few like ianrush will tell me its criminal to go on with Kenny for another season but I am still undecided. I am worried that the club will make another bad decision by bringing another incompetent manager that basically undo's all of Kenny's stabilising process. Another period like Hodgson (no offence to the man) will ruin our club even further.

I agree that there are positives and negatives with keeping Kenny but you have to give him credit for what he has done in the past few months since he took the job. Money was spent you might argue but lads lets not forget the money that's been invested into these players accounts for next season also since we still have those players and you never know, Carroll and co might just surprise us. As I said, still undecided but have a good feeling for our future.


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Kenny must stay not sure what your stupid cartoon is saying its wrong to dream of success that the reality is we are rubbish and will stay that way? when was all this decided and by whom?


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Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Originally Posted By: kennymuststay
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Worst managers we have ever had Dalglish and Hodgson the last two which is why we are in mid table.


not having that..rafa inherited a champs league team . and stevie g won the bloody champs league by himself. kenny inherited a mid table side and has to rebuild and there are better and more expensive teams around than in rafa's time.


Ummm no. Cause That team didn't win the champions league before Rafa was in charge did they wink Rafa made it a champions league winning team. And you are telling me that other teams win big trophies without their best player having a stormer from game to game? Do me a favour.


what i am saying is that the team rafa inherited was a top 4 champs league team. and his first season in the league was a awful. bascially we were cemented in the the top 4 and there were no other challengers. since then spurs,city have spent big to break in and we have gone backwards. rafa inherited a top 4 team and left a team outside top 4. of course ownership played its part but a top manager would have been able to keep us up there and not destroy the squad with awful signings and negative tactics, which in the end was rafa's downfall.

kenny is rebuilding from there , a position rafa or houllier never had to deal with

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Originally Posted By: bigredkop
Originally Posted By: kennymuststay
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Worst managers we have ever had Dalglish and Hodgson the last two which is why we are in mid table.


not having that..rafa inherited a champs league team . and stevie g won the bloody champs league by himself. kenny inherited a mid table side and has to rebuild and there are better and more expensive teams around than in rafa's time.


Ummm no. Cause That team didn't win the champions league before Rafa was in charge did they wink Rafa made it a champions league winning team. And you are telling me that other teams win big trophies without their best player having a stormer from game to game? Do me a favour.


Houllier's Liverpool scored 60 points in 03/04 (W16 D12 L10 GD18), and qualified in 4th ahead of Newcastle with 56, and Villa also with 56. The following season Benitez had us get 58 points, and we finished 5th behind Everton (61) and ahead of Bolton on goal difference only. Last season we had 58 points in finishing 6th, where 4th scored 68 points to qualify. This season 4th could be decided on 69 points.

So in truth Kenny's squad last season was not much worse than Houllier's or that of Benitez, and if SG misses that goal against Olympiakos (among others) Kenny outdoes them all because he won the League Cup. The league has become much more competitive at the top while the quality of the Liverpool side has remained largely constant (in the absence of Torres and Alonso). This has a lot to do with the transfer policy of the former owners and the large change in personnel required at the start of this season. As such, this season must surely be too early to judge the quality at our disposal.

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Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Kenny must stay not sure what your stupid cartoon is saying its wrong to dream of success that the reality is we are rubbish and will stay that way? when was all this decided and by whom?


what i am getting at is ur percieved knowledge of fsg plans and the fact that they are willingly destroying these plans for some reason.

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Originally Posted By: kennymuststay
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Kenny must stay not sure what your stupid cartoon is saying its wrong to dream of success that the reality is we are rubbish and will stay that way? when was all this decided and by whom?


what i am getting at is ur percieved knowledge of fsg plans and the fact that they are willingly destroying these plans for some reason.


I don't know what their plans are or even if they have plans. Its hard to link that to your cartoon dreams and reality. I think you are posting random things.


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