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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,381 |
There is a problem with all of this comparison between Dalglish and all of these managers who started poorly and went on to do well. None of them were at clubs that had won every trophy on offer outside the league title within the ten years prior to them signing on.
Shankly was a fantastic manager, no question, but there was no pressure on him to win the first division title given that he started managing the club in the second division. I'm pretty sure he managed more than 8 points from any collection of 11 consecutive league games no matter how dire his squad, anyway, and the same goes for Fergusson, Clough et al. But you can't compare Liverpool's 2012 expectations with those of Derby 30 years ago! It's not like Dalglish came to the rescue when the club was bottom of the table like 'Arry did for Spurs. 12th is bad, but it's not 20th.
All Dalglish had to do was improve over any 2 of the top 5 clubs, 3 of which were in decline at the start of the season. He had carte blanche to change what needed changing. Not only has he failed, he doesn't seem to have come to understand his squad, and we will continue to sit in that uncomfortable position of being outside the top 6 and barely holding onto the top 10 until he either gets it right or the players lose what little confidence they have left.
Top 6, a cup, and a cup semi-final should be enough, because that's improvement over last season and the season before. But finishing below 7th will make it hard to see how we've improved anywhere despite getting rid of all the players everyone knew were bad. Top post brilliantly written.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 140
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 140 |
Dalglish has replaced the no good dead already sold with British players that are not much better than what was sold.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
They aren't any better than what was sold but cost us an absolute fortune which we won't recouperate....
-Downing is getting on a bit - he isn't going to get any better at his age and we will never get any kind of money back for him
-Carroll was never proven in the first place and his purchase still mystifies me beyond belief - if kenny ever makes a profit on him or gets 20+ goals a season I'll eat my own anus!
-Henderson was booed by his own fans last season because of so many poor performances, and before that he was shipped out on loan to coventry(?). Mind boggling that we paid so much for someone with so little to offer. Another one that we will never make a profit on in a million years
-Adam - Enrique aside, adam is actually kenny's best signing - he cost relatively little and has more goals and assists than henderson and downing put together!! Yet he's a steaming pile of crap!!!!!
I know it isn't all about what profit we can make but we have seen how poor these players are so their only use to us is their saleable value.
Henderson is no better than poulsen
Downing is no better than joe cole
Carroll is no better than torres (or jovanovic!)
Adam is no better than meireles
In a nutshell, kenny has spent £110m for zero improvement - before he began his spending we were 6th in the league........we're now in 7th and getting rolled over by all and sundry.
When he took over at newcastle they were in 4th and he took them up to 2nd without spending a penny. Once he started spending, his players dragged the team down to the bottom half of the table - from 2nd!!!! They also flopped miserably in the champions league - to me, this proves beyond any dispute that kenny is a bad judge of player)
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
Maybe I was being a bit harsh on Downing & Carroll, but I'm sticking to my guns on henderson. However, when you consider that Joe Cole and Jovanovic were free can it be said that the downing and carroll have given better value for money?
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,955
Under 23 Player
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Under 23 Player
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,955 |
I will listen, only if your answer contains wisdom
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thundyr
Unregistered
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thundyr
Unregistered
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Maybe I was being a bit harsh on Downing & Carroll, but I'm sticking to my guns on henderson. However, when you consider that Joe Cole and Jovanovic were free can it be said that the downing and carroll have given better value for money? Depends how you view value for money. Are Downing and Carroll on a collective 180k pounds per week? Cole cost 5m up front as well, and I believe that Cole and Jova scored about 4 goals between them in total. Their average age is 29.5, while Carroll and Downing average 24.5. Nah, I'd keep Downing and Carroll, thanks.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,163 |
Where do you get your fees and salaries fom??!
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 388
Under 16 Player
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Under 16 Player
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 388 |
does fee really matter, are you out of your mind, ofcourse it does matter. why were the previous owners disliked for false promises not providing the resources (money). then how can you say money doesnt matter. gave rafa that 60 mil one season and you would of seen the difference. another thing i want to ask his how in gods name is this squad better than the one left by rafa. right now joe cole looks like he would make more sense in the midfield than adam. liverpool is completely worst off from the playing style to the players there isnt that much depth in the squad as everyone makes it seem. if gerrard and suarez are out we all become confused with how we're going to score a goal and subjected to watching players put horrible crosses in the box from half line and hope that carrol gets 1 right
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Maybe I was being a bit harsh on Downing & Carroll, but I'm sticking to my guns on henderson. However, when you consider that Joe Cole and Jovanovic were free can it be said that the downing and carroll have given better value for money? In that case, why is Bellamy absent from your list?
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552
1st Team Squad
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1st Team Squad
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,552 |
Maybe I was being a bit harsh on Downing & Carroll, but I'm sticking to my guns on henderson. However, when you consider that Joe Cole and Jovanovic were free can it be said that the downing and carroll have given better value for money? hmm, you might be right on Henderson, lol. Just watched the game for a second time. First goal, which allowed them back in, was a mess up between Carra (again!) and Henderson. How did some people think Carra was blameless? He's full fo blame again. 2nd goal was a cross from the left, so the Carra Henderson side, and then Skrtel didn't seem to jump. I'm not worried at all about Downing, never have been. I read every week how he's playing poorly, yet the Coates goal arose because Downing hit a shot which deflected and looped in the air, and the second goal Downing almost scored and the keeper just managed to parry it which Kuyt finished, and the game before , Downing scored the winner. He's at least involved and contributing, even if played out of position regularly. Of course as you say, if you judge things on value for money, then things might be different. None of the players are playing as well as they can anyway, so as I've said before, I'll judge them when we've got a proper manager in charge. Good post, Rafarendum, completely agree with everything - aside from possibly the final line. Not that I disagree with it, but it's maybe a bit of a harsh statement. I've given my opinions on Kenny and the current state of the team already, and I stick to that. I'll judge fully at the end of the season. I think that can be the only time for proper reflection, with how things currently are.
*RODGERS *SKRTEL *JONJO
'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
'If there is hope, it lies in the proles'
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