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79ceb #184260 23/01/12 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: 79ceb
when have i mentioned the "m" word....

grow up mate.


what was that?


Luis Garcia, He drinks sangria
He came from Barca, to bring us Joy
He's five foot seven, he's football heaven
please don't take my Luis away.

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dont be an hater, take the banter!
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Originally Posted By: northliverpool
Originally Posted By: TheMightyLFC
Originally Posted By: fazakerley red 1
fair post and correct , liverpool have start living in the present and future and not the past i see the call for benitez is raring it ugly head again , just pure blind sentiment nothing more nothing less , going back to past glories is not moving the club forward its standing still and creeping backwards even the call for torres to return just blind sentiment .


Faz... just bcause you don't agree with something doesn't make it pure blind sentiment.

There was some logic to Dalglish's appointment. He was a unifying factor and someone who could provide some stability. in the short term, he succeeded on these aspects. In addition, if things worked out, it would be a fantastic footballing story and a huge boost for the club. That side of things was gamble which isn't happening at the moment. But that doesn't make it a blind appointment.

One thing is for sure is that there is no obvious candidate who can guarantee success. So are we going to sack the manager every season we don't get 4th place? That's as recipe for total self destruction.
Yes thats exactly what we do, sack managers until we get the right one, this is how all big Clubs operate, Madrid done it before Mourinho, Barca done it before Rykaaard and Guardiola, even United did it before Ferguson. If you have a business and the man in charge is not up to the task do you keep him there while you slip further behind your competitors or do you ship him out and get someone in who can do the Job.


Yes, but are you really suggesting we sack the manager each season if 4th place or above isn't achieved?

The point is, unless the person is a total misfit (which KK is not) or you have a strategy of providing unlimited funds, then you can't expect immediate success. The manager needs to be given time of say 3-5 seasons before reaching the ultimate goal. Of course he would need to show improvement in that time, but along the way he may also make mistakes or some gambles may not come off, all of which would need to be allowed for.

Regarding the clubs you mentioned:

Fergie - took him 6 or 7 seasons to win the league. Had they followed your approach he would've been sacked within first season.

Real Madrid spent huge amounts on individual transfers. they were able to go out and buy the best players available in quiet a few positions I suspect. In such circumstances it might be fair to expect success immediately - but perhaps still unrealistic. Just look at Man City. In any case, we're not in that position, so it's going to take any manager a little longer to build a team.

In the few years before Rijkaard, when Barcelona seemed to have a new manger every season they won nothing. And this is what is written about Rijkaard:

'Rijkaard had a disappointing start at Barcelona that saw some sections of the club's fans call for his resignation, and he drew flak from the media when the team lost to Real Madrid in December 2003.[3] Rijkaard's resilience won through and from 2004 onwards, he achieved a massive turnaround, as the team went from strength to strength. Barcelona finished runners-up in La Liga in 2003–04, having been close to the relegation zone at one point in the earlier stages of the season. Rijkaard then took Barcelona to the next level as he phased out the old guard and rebuilt a new-look side around Ronaldinho, with new players like Deco, Samuel Eto'o, Rafael Márquez and Ludovic Giuly, along with the latest promotion of some young players from the previous era trained in the club's youth teams (i.e. Víctor Valdés, Carles Puyol, Xavi and Andrés Iniesta). He eventually succeeded in turning around the fortunes of the club, with the strong support of Laporta, and within the next couple of years finally managed to win La Liga both in 2004–05 and in 2005–06.'

i.e. he wasn't an instant success. It took him time build a team and get the team playing according to his philosophy.

Last edited by TheMightyLFC; 23/01/12 01:39 PM.

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i don't want the king sacked not by a long shot

But comparing him to fergie and how much time he got is silly

Fergie was given time in a different age in football and generally managers where given more time then

You seriously believe that if a new manager came in at the scum and had fergies results of his few seasons they would be given time, no bloody way

Weather you like it or not football has moved on and is now a results business. The rewards of finished high up in the league and playing in Europe are too big to dismiss with " i am sure we will be better next year". For me its all about progression and moving forward, stand still and you will be catching up for years.

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Originally Posted By: TheMightyLFC
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Originally Posted By: TheMightyLFC
Originally Posted By: fazakerley red 1
fair post and correct , liverpool have start living in the present and future and not the past i see the call for benitez is raring it ugly head again , just pure blind sentiment nothing more nothing less , going back to past glories is not moving the club forward its standing still and creeping backwards even the call for torres to return just blind sentiment .


Faz... just bcause you don't agree with something doesn't make it pure blind sentiment.

There was some logic to Dalglish's appointment. He was a unifying factor and someone who could provide some stability. in the short term, he succeeded on these aspects. In addition, if things worked out, it would be a fantastic footballing story and a huge boost for the club. That side of things was gamble which isn't happening at the moment. But that doesn't make it a blind appointment.

One thing is for sure is that there is no obvious candidate who can guarantee success. So are we going to sack the manager every season we don't get 4th place? That's as recipe for total self destruction.


I know why don't we just accept we are no longer good enough and lets lower our sights a little. Newcastle fans seem to manage fine they are a happy bunch right? I say give King Kenny a job for life as manager we have had our success in the past and lets now accept us for what we are. Everyone will be happier in the long run. So thats sorted then....


It's not about lowering our standards. It's about having a realistic plan to get back to where we want to be. Unless we have a blank cheque, it's not going to happen overnight.

Did you see the games today? We're nowhere near the quality of City, United and Tottenham.... and we're probably techinically not as good as Arsenal. So if anyone thinks that any manager is gonna make us regular top 4 and title challengers in one season without huge investment then I think they're deluded. If that's correct then it's likely that we won't always be top 4, in which case do we sack the manager every time we miss top 4?

What I'm saying is that if we don't have money like City or Chelsea, then becoming a quality top 4 side is going to take 3 to 5 years and some smart thinking and action. those 3-5 years may include some years where we don't make top 4, but we can't just sack the manager every time that happens.


The problem is, Kenny has been given huge investment and spent it on players that are nowhere near good enough for LFC - his judgement has been appalling. What's the point in sticking with him and giving him more money to spend on more rubbish that will take us further away from the top teams? It's not about giving him more time - we've seen what his idea of a good player is and that isn't going to change. More time for kenny = more misery and mediocrity.

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Originally Posted By: cjkent
i don't want the king sacked not by a long shot

But comparing him to fergie and how much time he got is silly

Fergie was given time in a different age in football and generally managers where given more time then

You seriously believe that if a new manager came in at the scum and had fergies results of his few seasons they would be given time, no bloody way

Weather you like it or not football has moved on and is now a results business. The rewards of finished high up in the league and playing in Europe are too big to dismiss with " i am sure we will be better next year". For me its all about progression and moving forward, stand still and you will be catching up for years.


Agree, a new manager at that place would not be given time now because they have a fanatstic basis. All the groundwork has been done and they just need to keep things ticking along.

We don't have those foundations. Rafa built a good platform (with some expensive mistakes along the way) with Reina, Mascherano, Alonso, Carragher, Gerrard and Torres... only to then mess it up... with further time wasted by Roy and now perhaps KK.

I totally agree it's about progression. But there are two ways to achieve it. The quick way: buy top quality players at top prices on top salaries - which we can't do. Or build a team with gradual progression for which a manager needs two to three seasons I reckon. Just like Ranieri built the foundations which served Mourinho well.

Sacking a manager every year just isn't going to help. With the manager goes his coaching staff, medical staff, philosphy etc,... and if the new manager doesn't like the players he inherits then that's the previous year's transfers wasted.

The difficult judgment to make is whether a manger who has been in for 6 months or a year and performed below expectation will show better progress in subsequent years.


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Originally Posted By: CarheeX

The problem is, Kenny has been given huge investment and spent it on players that are nowhere near good enough for LFC - his judgement has been appalling. What's the point in sticking with him and giving him more money to spend on more rubbish that will take us further away from the top teams? It's not about giving him more time - we've seen what his idea of a good player is and that isn't going to change. More time for kenny = more misery and mediocrity.


That's a big judgemnet call. Is there an alternative name in the frame that can gurantee success? If not guarantee... then someone who is widely acknowledged to be a better bet than KK?

Beacuse if there isn't, then who's to say that the next person won't also make expensive signings that don't work out?

I agree, I wouldn't give KK more big money to splash. At least not unless the people he wants are also approved by others that FSG can take advice from (and that's not just Comolli)

My suggestion is we need to see the situation at the end of the season and see he the team fares between now and then. In terms of transfers, KK needs to pull off some master strokes on loan, for low fees or swap deals etc. in this transfer window to redress the balance of the poor activity in the last one.


'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly

'We should have made a signing or two in the last couple of transfer windows.' Vish
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