KopTalk.com Forums Football Liverpool FC Forum our defence

its games like bolton when you find out if a kid is going to be upto it long term or not ...... he should have played ...... and no i wouldn't have called for rafa to go regardless of the result as i know he is operating with one hand tied behind his backs by the yanks ...... but he should stop wasting the tiny amounts of money he does have on stop gap players like kyrgiakos

yes they were but they have all been trained in our academy for the last couple of years, the manure twins were trained somewhere else.

actually rafa talks quite alot about nazir and how he can make a difference when HES BACK FROM INJURY.

no but it will still have been a great experience for the lad and a confidence boost.

i do see there floors at liverpool but i also see theres floors at alot of other top clubs too, rafa is not the only one who doesnt always choose to play youth players, thats the point im making. like ive said in a previous post, the stakes are so high managers have to put out there strongest team. if rafa puts a young team out against leeds in the carling cup and we go out everyone will be on his back!

Why you taking your frustration out on the fact that there are no youth players coming out on this coaching regime? The only players of quality i see in that youth and kids ranks are Eccelston, Nemeth, Bruna, Pacheco, mayby Darby too.

The rest of them, maybe i did miss out a few, the rest of them are all like danny guthrie, stephen warnock, they will ed up at bolton, stoke, nottingham forst, sheffield.

Like niel mellor, thompston, walsh,warnok. yea. under souness it was Nikky tanner, mike marsh. so its no secret, but the youth we have had havent been upto scratch... but you were going overboard with your praise of man uinted youth system..

And the Browns, Bechams, Oshea and all those kids were planned years before they broe onto the scene, lets wait and see in the time to come how our youth materialises. Remeber we didnt have plenty youth, Rafa has bought plenty youth..

Out of me depth? no ways, you were the one that was bowled out me mate.

Why are you comparing ferguson and the man united youth set up to liverpool?? this is out of depth me mate. this coach of ours Rafa had to loose a string of young talent becaus ethe damn board didnt saction the money!!!!!~

We wanted, denison, we wanted aaron ramsey, we were in for bale, Rafa has also tried to sign youn talent like bubblebum fergie, but he got a tight budget me mate!!

Ans before you sit on a free forum critisibng the purchese of that 2m greek, maybe you should reflect on this amtter a bit and ask yourself what does the coach know that I TREPIe DOESNT KNOW!!!

Why am i sitting in a non paying free forum while RAfa IS SITTING AT MELWOOD, surley it TREPIE was so great and so respected he wouldnt be wasting his time on a free football forum?

i am not wasting my time on a free football forum mate, i happen to think discussing the club i love is not a waste of time but obviously you do

as for what i know that the coach doesn't, i don't see that it's relevant ..... i obviously know a lot more than you though and that's who we are comparing - you forgot players like putterill while putting down a player like warnock who has proven that it was a mistake to sell him ..... or are you going to tell me dossena is a better player? or perhaps you will tell me that having fabs for a quarter of a season (as he will be injured for the rest of it) is a better bet than having warnock for the full season

and so what if we wanted denilson etc, this is about us not producing talent not about buying it in ffs ..... you are clearly out of your depth because you don't know enough about youth football other than what you read on the offal obviously

perhaps you want to discuss what a great signing babel was? or some of the other crap rafa has signed before telling me that he knows better than me about transfers ..... i don't see anyone he has bought that was an unknown ..... i like rafa and think he is the best man for the job but that doesn't mean i am a blinkered fool who thinks everything he does is right

this is my club as much as yours and i have every right to criticise things that are wrong, just as anyone else does - your problem is that you think supporting a club is purely about kissing the arse of the club - its not - i was there every other week during the souness era do you think i was sat there afterwards saying how wonderful we are?? sometimes there are criticisms that have to be made - and this is one - the club's youth policy is not working at the moment - rafa tried to put the blame on heighway and gave him the push but his teams were cleaning up in youth tournaments then not getting a chance in the first team so whose fault is it???

I think you people are really unfair concerning Kyrgiakos. Give the lad a chance! I do hope he proves you all wrong

This is correct.

Although we have never really had that many players coming through, something is clearly wrong at the moment with youth development at the club.

As has been mentioned already (and wrongly dismissed) Souness brought through the likes of McManaman, Marsh, Redknapp and Fowler, Evans brought through Carragher, Thompson, Matteo and Owen, and Houllier brought through Gerrard.

Since then youth development has been pretty poor. We have invested millions in the Academy and on buying promising youngsters from England and abroad and none of them have made a massive impact, if any impact at all.

Its one thing to argue that players are not ready, and to point to generally meaningless games where the odd token young player has played but the fact is that young players will never develop if they are not played. Sending them out on loan is a proven failure. The best results come from keeping players as back up, giving them the odd sub appearance and then trusting them to step in when senior players are injured.

What we currently seem to do for the few who are lucky enough NOT to be shipped out on loan is play them all together in cup games (which achieves [oops] all because they are not getting used to playing WITH the first team, the reserve team just BECOMES the first team!), maybe putting them on the bench for European games and then shitting ourselves when a senior player actually needs replacing and going out to buy a cheap foreigner instead.

thank you ricardo i am glad someone else can see the point i am trying to make! if the kids aren't good enough to be used as cover and instead we need a cheap foreigner then we have serious problems with the academy

loans can work if the player is going to get a chance when he comes back..... but when a player like hammill goes out on loan and stars for the club he is loaned to, yet gets sold rather than given a chance when he returns then there is a problem ....... there is a huge morale issue here too - a youngster who sees his chance of ever breaking through as hopeless will not put in the same effort as one who knows he will get a chance ...... they lose heart and then their development becomes stunted

you aint discssing the football club you love, you coming out with critisms as though you are 100% sure that rafa is the cause of the lack of you coming through, how do you knwo if Rafa isnt doing anything about it? we have seen him bring in Kenny, kick out ablett and a few other, so you are perfectly within you right to crictisize and express your comment, but you come across as though you know the cause and the solution?? that is obviously not the case because you are sitting here on a free forum, not working at melwood.
2ndly you contradict yourself, on one hand you refer to marcheda, and the two brazilians, yet when i refer to denilson or ramsey you say you are refering to youth development, but neither marcheda or any other of united young guns you refer to were homegrown, they were poached.
There is another thread for your babel discussions if you like, i never mentioned anything of babl.
Warnock, o well, he a mid table club player, Dossena had all the right qualities, reputation, form,international, strong, experience. Rafa bought him, it isnt working out, same like shevchenco, kleberson,bellion etc. the fact players arent coming through is worism, but i dont think it is fair to throw the blame on Rafa. obviously Rafa knows better than you in transfers, that is why he is a football manager, you are not. the fact he has signed bad players doen mean you know better. and every manager signs flops. nobody thinks rafa is right with everything, but he is the coach, so hemakes the choices, if you support the club, you stand with him. i dont like the fact he subsitutes players so late but heu, i trust a man of his calibre and achievements to know what he is doing becasue he works with the players and knows the players better than me.if you can guaranee that Warnock will be available for a whole season, and Fabs wont, then you should take managerial role at a club. because that injury story is part oflife. Deal with it. how do you know what happens behin closed doors? what if Rafa said to warnock "we can keep you here for the first team as a substitute and for cup gams" what if warnock didnt want to stay, warnock wanted play more often?
y
If you a youn fooballer, you want to join the bid clubs ecause it looks good on your CV, but at the end of the day, you want to play football, you dont want to sit on the bench:)
You have given your views and your opinion, especially that you know more than me, if you feel that way, then congrats mate. i for one, agree kyriakos is good signing and that the youth are not ready:) have a great wekend buddy.

you are really blinkered aren't you? one of those clueless, head up their own backside type of fans that give the rest of us a bad name ......... you brought in babel by saying that rafa is some kind of transfer market genius and knows better than me - i was merely pointing out that the signing of babel proves he makes as many mistakes as the rest of us ....... and yes after 5 years it is right to blame rafa as the players were coming through previously ...... the gerrards, carraghers, mcmanamans, fowlers and owens haven't magically disappeared, they are still there, the gems in the youth team. It's just that now their development is being stifled because they can't get a game - if you fail to see that then you have no knowledge of the game!

i support my club through thick and thin but that doesn't mean i have to say everything is right with it ...... i want the best for my club and that means pointing out things that are lacking in the hope they will get improved ...... unfortunately we have buttkissers like you who just follow along blindly like sheep backing everything and agreeing with everything so nothing ever gets done!

the bringing in of kenny was a masterstroke because he is an ally to rafa and the fans love him but it has set back the youth academy when heighway was doing a fine job ...... i have no problem with ablett getting the push as he is no favourite of mine ..... average player at best and no great shakes as a coach either in my opinion

actually joe if you read other people's posts you will see that the other guy kept bringing in people like el zhar as examples, to which i was pointing out who the scum had brought through like that

as for your cluelessness about warnock's abilities i will just laugh at your obvious stupidity! the guy is good enough for a top side - outstanding for blackburn since he went there, hence his move to villa in the summer ...... yes he wanted to go because rafa wouldn't give him the opportunities he wanted and rafa decided to choose aurelio over him ..... i think we can all see that was a bad choice as fabs was injury prone before he got here and is even more so since being here!

btw you keep criticising me for sitting on a free forum like it has some kind of stigma attached but you know nothing about me or what i do so i would suggest you shush about it ....... oh and remember that your also sat on a free forum so mayhaps your opinions and ideas are irrelevant then??