Yesterday still hurts. Just waiting for the weekend to be over and get back to work to get it out of the system I guess. Clinging on to the hope that something good can come out of it. So what could that be? What did we learn and what should we do?

Here's my starter for 10:

- Klopp is a decent, enthusiastic, positive, passionate, fair chap who means well, likes to play on the edge, wants to win, is hurt by losing. He deserves our support.

- However Klopp must learn. He has lost his last 5 finals. This season we were battered by Spurs and City away... and then yesterday happened. Maybe in the big games he has to focus on the result rather than on how he would like his team to play.

- Klopp & FSG must invest in proven quality. There's been talk about us spending big. Hopefully we spend wisely. Lovren, Moreno, Mignolet and Can should not be at the club next season. We need to say goodbye to any player who is not good enough either technically or mentally.

- We must focus on the defence. We simply won't win anything if the defence is shaky. Mourinho has shown Klopp over the last two seasons that you don't win trophies by being stylish. They've been a boring team for quite a few years now yet LVG & Mourinho have put trophies in the cabinet. I suggest it's because the foundation of their game is the keeper and the defence.

It's over to Klopp and FSG now. Do they want to simply make money or do they really want to compete at the top and win things? The next transfer window will finally tell us that I believe.

How often and for how long have we been saying: "The Next Transfer Window Will Finally Tell Us Whether Or Not We Want To Win Anything"? Seems like I've heard that mantra a hundred thousand times already....still waiting...

I think for FSG winning is not an end in itself but a way to make the club more popular/valuable.

I am with Hercules. I am glad we're doing well with this squad we have, but how many times do we have to say 'Next transfer window'.

The first 22 is not strong enough, and without serious major signings, there is little chance we can actually win any real tournament.

And I don't believe that the owners will change their profit-based recruitment and selling-on policy.

Let's see how much money we spend this summer, we should have the Coutinho money + this summers budget if all is as FSG claim, as they claimed Keita & VvD transfers were from last summers budget, but we will see, I've said all this before, as we all have .........

If Klopp can get 3 or 4 first team players, I think we can make a real challenge for the PL next season, I think we need GK, CB to partner VvD, CM (additional to Keita) & Forward to cover the front 3 (primarily Firmino).

Without that it will be another battle for Top 4 and struggling to make a mark in the cups as our reduced strength team will be knocked out by the likes of WBA, with our rivals all re-enforcing and moving away from us.

All stuff we have said before.

1) Adaptability - being gungho attacking and high pressing every game may not be the way to beat every opponent. Klopp needs to learn from this game(and others)

2)big game players - we only have salah, and I dont think hes quite in the same category as gerrard and suarez on the big occasions

3)defensive concentration still lacking - we need to work on that

4) we need to work on speed/accuracy of passing and our ball control in close spaces - we always seem to struggle against teams who defend in numbers

Did they? I missed that one. Any links?

I'd be amazed if Keita was from last seasons budget.

More likely Keita and VvD were from the Coutinho sale so we'll probably get another �50-60m if we're lucky with another �40m-ish in sales.

No idea how it's going to play out. Based on the past I'd say we'll buy Lemar, Martins, maybe a CM, CB & GK, then Salah will go to balance the books.

As much as we shouldn't want to sell the like of Coutinho/Salah, it's probably the only way forward.

Salah isn't going anywhere. He's played 35 games and still get referred to as a Chelsea reject by some people. He won't go to Madrid while they have Ronaldo and bale. He won't play second fiddle to them and they can barely keep isco asensio Vazquez happy.

We will spend a lot this year. But so will city. Utd. Chelsea and arsenal who may both have new managers.

Spurs will stay the same. They're just Spurs.

And then there's the iminent threat of fat sam and bitters.....

What is evident from the Seville game tbe other night was the way Seville remained calm under pressure and waited for there's chance.....

The biggest thing I put it down to was Seville and the Europa League...they had Won it three times on tbd bounce and it's obviously been used according as a springboard to the point they at now. I know this because winning thd Europa league and donestic cuos had exactly the same effect on us when we won it back under 2001 with Houllier. This is what I don't understand about Klopps philosophy on domestic cups, surely he can see the benefits.of taking them serious and trying to win then because of the confidence it brings...how many players in our team besides Milner have actually been a trophy winner or knows what's required to be successful....

Anyway just my take on why Seville played the way they did the other night and why I think drawing them would be a bad draw, there cautious sit in style play is all wrong for us, we seen the way United snuffed us out by closing the spaces down and defending deep....Seville defend 10 yards furthers back again....no space at all for Salah, Mane or Firmino...

I understand the points about money however we will never be at Chelsea,United or City's level so our prioritise are different from there's, yes they might need to qualify every season to pay for huge transfer fees and wages to balance the books but for clubs like ours who are not at that level we need trophies instead of money which you can get on our budget. What would you as a fan rather have...a champions league quarter final appearance or a Europa League win or FA Cup Win or League Cup win...it just doesn't make sense for any fan to chase the money when they don't receive a penny of it...trophies, glory and memories are surely more important to fans than appearance money in a competition we will never win Bar a miracle....

Chelsea is behind us, United have 5 points lead but they are both out of CL while we are still in, so how do you define level?

I hope we do spend a lot, we've just all heard it several summers in a row and we only spend big when we sell.

The problem with the inflated fees is it makes it even more difficult for clubs to keep in touch with teams like City who spend freely. If we keep spending �30-40m a season, the gap will widen so my point was if we get chance to cash in big one player and are looking at �200m or so to spend, Klopp would prefer that than keeping Salah and spending �50m.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic. �100m summer budget should do it but if Klopp wants him, most of it could go on Allison.

Sorry for going completely off thread topic.

yes but fans are only chasing the champions league because of the money it pulls in, Benfica, Ajax and Celtic appear in it every season but for what? What are the fans of those clubs actualy getting out of it apart from maybe a chance to see Messi, Ronald or Neymar play at their home stadium. For fans we go to the match or maybe support the club in the hope of seeing them maybe win a trophy, from the smallest club to the biggest this is the true essence of what football is, it's to try and win a trophy and when you look at our Club we don't do that, that's why I no longer understand what Liverpool Football exists for anymore...

I define a level as in ambition and what do they exist for...if you look at us...a good season for us is if er qualify for the champions league by finishing in the top four, we get that it's job done and our owners, manager and players will pat themselves on the back...our fans do to....now look at City, Chelsea and United, if they don't win the League or Champions League it automatically goes down as a bad season even if they finished second and won the domestic cups. Look at United last season, they won the League Cup, and Europa League yet they got away with that only because it was jose's first season. If you look at next season United, City and Chelsea will All be expected to win the League or champions leagur and wil get slaughtered if they don't, those Clubs can all win it next year again after their summer spending while ourselves, Spurs and Arsenal might finish ahead of one of those clubs if we play outstanding, spend well in the summer with new signings hitting the ground running and most importantly....if one of the big three have a bad season...like Chelsea are doing this season....this is what I mean by levels, those Three clubs are light years ahead of the rest of us but the very odd season or so we can finish ahead of maybe one or two...

We bid for Keita & VvD last summer, so we must have had the money for those deals at that time, if their clubs would have agreed, we would have signed them in the summer.

Keita �68 million bid:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/201...le-jurgen-klopp

We all know we were trying to get VvD as we had to put out a press release apologising for approaching him and trying to sign him.

think the combined fee for both players in the summer would probably been around 100m and with the usual player sales and as a club our size we could probably afford that however after budled farsical attempt for VVD the price rocketed to 75m which meant the only way we could afford that was to sell our best player. I think this proves we are firmly in the bracket behind the big three and alongside Spurs and Arsenal but way behind the big boys who could easily shell that out and keep their best players...

Ronaldo will have to be gone in order to make room for the possible arrival of Neymar if he doesn't move to United....imagine Neymar and Ronald...talk about battle of the egos...no chance that would work...

Current league standings is not really the measure though us it ?

So what is?

yes but the decision is to we want to compete for trophies we can win or ta trophy we can't possibly win unless a miracle happens, it's not me who has said we have to decide it's the managers actions probably under the orders of owners that we can't compete for domestic cups because it harms the chances of qualifying for the champions league.
Are you telling me next season Leicester City fans given the choice would rather make another appearance in the champions League or win F.A Cup, League Cup or Europa League...no chance, it's better to choose battles you can win than ones you haven't a hope in winning...you don't make any sense...

so why would you want your manager to target a trophy you can't win instead of trophies you can win? Just don't understand....
Your right that you watch games for glory and success but the owners, manager and players who target new facilities, bank balances and new deals...we both target completely different things and why football and business will never mix, this is why I will never understand any fan siding with owners, manager and fans by wanting top four and Champions League appearance money ahead of the glory, success and fame of winning Europa Leagues and domestic cups...absolute madness...

What has any of this got to do with lessons learnt and reccomendations after the Utd loss? Seems like some can't keep to topic and have to pedal their own agenda by saturating the forum with the same old fukking bollox.

We've made it to the finals of two cup competitions in the past two years, have moved up several places in the league, and we're in the quarter finals in the Champions league with most goals scored and most clean sheets in the competition. That sounds like competing for trophies to me.

Would you rather us drop down to the championship so that we could win it? What a loser attitude.

I would like to have won a trophy by now, but this is progress from where we were (no final appearances since 2011, only one CL appearance since 2009, dumped out of the group stages).

Wilks lad!
Yer taking the bait.

IGNORE!

thought you would of been clever enough to know it's all been tried before and never works...boyo...calling for fellow posters to ignore people is not good at all....embarrassing and pathetic in fact but knock yer self out and see how far you get...