big big big problems , cant score cant break teams down no blip no more big big problems forget top 4 out the cups disgrace .

No criticism of Mignolet after a massive mistake Faz? You'd have been absolutely slaughtering Karius if it was him. Double standards?

Anyway our form is year has been diabolical, we've completely undone all of our good work in the first half of the season.

yeh migno made a mistake but it all come from can giving a corner away under no pressure , but 14 corners up to now nothing now meaningful shots on goal , its no blip this something has gone very wrong , i dont think liverpool had a bad run like this under hodgson or brendan and they were bad , something has gone really wrong .

no top 4 no cups , losing against teams at the bottom rubbish

What has gone wrong is unlike other teams we only have 1 player for each position.

Players know they can perform shockingly and not be dropped.

By rights Lallana, Firmino, Can would have been dropped weeks ago.

Thanks to FSG and our weak squad we have no choice but to play out of form players week in, week out.

So Mignolet makes a mistake and it's someone else's fault? Karius makes a mistake after numerous errors by our players and it's solely his fault? Nice to see the same standards applied to both.

KLOPP....OUT....

he keeps picking that emre can he massively contributed to there first goal , gave a corner away under zero pressure , and does nothing in attack still plays him , gini scored tuesday dropped , somthing is wrong and i cant see when the next win will come seriously spurs, leicester and the arse next up

Playing Can instead of Wijnaldum made absolutely no sense at all today.

no not someone elses fault there all at fault , can gave a nothing corner away under no pressure , defence all over the place , no cutting edge AGAIN .

You for real?

Errrrr Fukk off back to Scumchester will ya !

Buying Wijnaldum made no sense.

A player who got relegated with Newcastle.
offered nothing different to the team. And most importantly was money we could have spent on a left back and then played Milner in his correct midfield position.

wijnaldum scored tuesday and is miles and miles better than can

I actually agree with this.

But now he's in the squad and having scored on Tuesday, he quite simply had to play today instead of Can.

Better than Can, but he wasn't needed when we had no left back.

Would Milner be better than Wijnaldum in midfield is the question.

teams have had a look at the Klopp way of playing and have come up with the answers.Klopps team want to close you down when you have possesion! answer,let them have the ball!Klopps team cant score from crosses/ corners and have no areal threat!answer,defend the width of the 18 yard box force them down the wings.Klopp likes to get men forward.Answer,get men behind the ball and wait for them to drop the bollock.Couthino has a great right foot,answer,keep him on his left.
if teams follow these simple rules they will very often get the desired effect when they play us.

Can is not the player I had hoped he would be, don't want to scapegoat anyone because everyone was crap today but Can doesn't really offer anything.

i love Klopp and i want him to be our manager for years,but i want to see him learn from what he's seeing and actually adapt to situations.he doesn't change anything he doesn't ever spring a surpise.in selection or tactics.he approaches every game with the same style.Heavy metal football my arse.if he means dropping like a lead ballon then he's right.

Why are we still leaking goals and looking as bad as ever defending, what is Jurgen Klopp doing on the training pitch and if we are still so bad why isn't he signing defenders in January.

All you have said is correct.

the regression of liverpool is more than shocking , this season is now turning into one of the worst for many years , can only see liverpool getting 60-66 points and thats the same as last season , but no cup runs and no cup finals , i really like klopp he is a good manager but something has clearly gone wrong , players look jaded and the style of play has gone stale to say the least , sideways and backwards no cutting edge now from a team who looked like could score goals for fun before december , my opinion is the rot set in with the bournemouth game , i really dont know were the next victory is coming from spurs next week as it stands a comfortable win for spurs is likely sadly

It was a mistake and it cost us a goal so it had massive consequences however the mistake itself wasn't a shocker.

We looked completely jaded and didn't play with the same intensity as against Chelsea. Wijnaldum was probably rested because he was more jaded than others. In such a system we need more players of level similar to our first team, we do not have that. Firmino should be rested and probably Lallana, but Origi and Sturridge are not same level. Maybe after a week we will be able to put back the intensity, anyway, I hope. Maybe we shouldn't give a [oops].

Lucas should never play for us again. Why didn't Klopp play Gomez instead?

Milner at LB is starting to take its toll. Yesterday he was awful. Moreno from start against a team sitting back can't be any worse.

Can is not better than Wijnaldum. What the hell was Klopp thinking? We have 1 player showing anything close to goal form, and he is rested for Can???

Cortina, Lallana and Firmino are all totally out of form. Cortina most of them. Can't even make a simple pass atm.

So all in all it's now time to rest the right players and call for our back up staff. Errrm. We have almost none at all, so there we are! Maybe it would be better to have Storage and Origo on the pitch from the start? Could it be any worse than seeing Cortina and Firmino making themselves look like fools?

If you think that Mignolet's mistake yesterday wasn't a shocker then I'm afraid your completely deluded, the guy dropped a simple catch that right at the foot of a Hull attacker. If Karius had done the same thing you would be slagging him off left, right and centre. The double standards applied to different players by people is laughable to say the least.

Coutinho has been awful since returning from injury, like you say he loses the ball constantly, what's happened to him? We don't have a single player in form at the moment, even Matip looks shaky.

I though the goalkeeper was at fault for the first goal deffo and the second goal was terrible just a straight ball over the top Lucas and Matip left the forward with too much space to run between. I think Matip is an awful player, spaghetti legs, he looks clumsy, slow and the queen mary turns quicker in a dry dock, we needed defenders in January.

If Karius had made the error I would have questioned yet again why Klopp would have picked him. And yes I probably would have judged the error differently.

The whole team was absolutely [oops]. As bad as mingolet was the rest were as bad. As much as I don't want him in goal. We have far bigger problems than mingolet. Having to play Lucas or Klaven in defence for starters and Lovern is not to hot either. They are making mistakes every single game that lead to multiple goals being conceded in games

And so it begins.......

You just couldn't help yourself could you?

ofcorse it begins...it begins because it's a never ending cycle for clubs like ours, a manager comes in, we don't win a trophy, he gets about three seasons, he's sacked...we start all over again and we go longer and longer without winning a trophy.
I think fans are partly to blame with stupid expectation levels as in trying to win Leagues like this seasons start and when we fall away they are disappointed, the league is a dead competition for clubs like ours which makes it all the more important to try and win a cup.

Thank you admitting your own double standards. As I said it's laughable.

Karius was dropped after making mistakes and poor performances, since then especially in the two Southampton games he was pretty good. Mignolet is now doing the same but for some reason you don't hold him accountable, why?

Yes they were, and I don't blame Mignolet for our inability to create chances and constant sideways passing. However when we are struggling against a team that are content for a point, the last thing you do is give them a goal, and that's exactly what Mignolet did yesterday.

Mignolet fked up for their first goal, but Karius is no better, Wolves scored their first goal because he didn't come out.

I've never said Karius is better, just holding both our goalkeepers to the same standards. Neither have been good enough this season.

On current form we'll be 6th next week with Everton closing in.

There's no more debating Mignolet, he's a poor 'keeper and although he's not the only reason, I believe if we'd signed a WC 'keeper instead of cheap potential in Karius, we'd get top4. Before you ask, I don't know who that could've been..

A part of me can still make excuses for the squad/FSG.
We've got 3 great strikers and Origi, Ings and Sturridge on the bench. Origi's gone backwards, Ings is injured again.. and DS just hasn't played as he can.
The midfield is average but most had faith in Can so we've got Henderson, Can, Wijnaldum & Lallana, plus a couple of decent back-ups.
The biggest summer cock up was not going all out for someone like Hector. Yes we had Milner and bought Wijnaldum but should we had to choose between another midfielder and a LB?
Sakho's let us all down and Klaven's been poor - but that's what �5m CB's give you...

I have faith in Klopp if he's given funds. It'll be an interesting summer as despite what people say about him buying potential and developing players, he can't do that here and now he must know it. If he doesn't get the players he wants I think it'll be his last summer with us.

Karius came in and he didn't look like a goalkeeper. Hes picked up since then but he is still struggling. Mignolet had made mistakes recently just like most of the players have dropped off.

So are you saying all those players Klopp has bought are players he didn't want to sign himself, if the answer is no then who forced them on him and if the answer is yes then he has a poor judgement of players if he thinks there good enough. The only other reason I can think of is that FSG haven't given him money to buy the players he wanted and if that's the case surely Klopp should of discussed transfer funds before he took over much like Benitez did at Newcastle with Mike Ashley, if he still signed must of meant he was happy with the transfer fund so the blame lies firmly at Klopps feet.

So because other players are struggling for form Mignolet's mistakes are acceptable?

No but Mignolet seems to have been criticied more than most recently on here when the whole team has been poor. Bad mistake from Mignolet but he's the best we've got so there's not much that can be done until the end of the season.

It was looking like a draw against Hull so he cost us a point, but then gained us a point against Chelsea...he has been better this season but still not good enough

What about the stick Karius got after a few mistakes? He's had it worse than anyone and it was fukking embarrassing to say the least. Now Flappy has done what he will always do and it's OK because he's been criticized enough and the others are doing badly too? Couldn't make this shitte up!

If Migs is the best we've got then we're truly fukked. I'd rather give Manninger a go than continue with Flappy for the rest of the season.

Give the German the rest of the season and if we need two keepers in the summer well then at least we will know in advance.

Mignolet is consistently erratic which makes goalkeeping tricky.

The goalkeeper situation should of been addressed in January along with the left back position, incompetency from the manager in my book especially if posters on here can see it was needed and we don't get paid the money he does.

We do not have much to lose anyway, so why not?

So, Genius, come on then do tell us who you would have bought in and how you would have organised the logistics of doing it.

Yeh,it's not like Mign will suddenly become a proper keeper,Karius looks as bad but he could still surprise us with whats left of the season.

Klopp messed up with the keeper situation. Mingolet should have been sold in the summer, Karius in if he wanted and an established goal keeper as 1st choice.

both keepers look bang average. Karius will a least be given at chance to prove himself. But that is not much use for a team trying to get into the top 4

Oh kano. You've done it now, inviting him to bore us all witless with more of his inane long winded self opinionated drivellings.
The comical thing is, that he thinks we're all interested in the shyte he spouts.
Comical

I think we should stop answering to his posts or answer out of subject.

This was all said on his last star guest appearance though.

To be fair Growls it's the first time he has actually had an opinion on the modern day football,and as long as he doesn't start spouting the you know what dribble I don't mind him, he takes a lot of stick quite well and so long as it don't turn into us bullying him he's good for the banter.

Both of you deserve a slap round the chops with a muddy welly.

I only read the first line now and you can just tell it'll be the same old wind up bollix so just ignore it. It won't be long before the inevitable is said and hopefully he'll be binned for good this time.

Not at all, I just hold both keepers to the same standards. It's the only fair way to do it.

I'm more than happy to praise anyone, Mignolet or whoever if they play well, but I'll criticise when it's warranted, again no matter who the player.

ok mignolet made a mistake and deserves loads of stick , but to just blame him for the limp nothing performance is way off the mark , that emre can gave the original corner away under zero pressure , plus the defence was all over the place , and the forward line has stopped working , and how much i like klopp and i still believe in him , but he has to be blamed aswell as the look like they have been found out .

Of course he's not to blame for everything but let's face it Faz ,he's shittt

Problem is, Mignolet is not consistently good or bad, he has his peaks, like the Chelsea penalty save, then he does something stupid like against Hull, he's been like this since he came 3-4 years ago, so he aint gonna change.

We just need someone consistently good, I think that would also help the defenders as they would have confidence and know what the keeper was going to do. I still think Karius has the potential, he's young and shown enough in the Cups to give him a go now, so I think he should be brought back as Number 1.

Something ain't right for so many people to have so may different reasons and problems within the team and Club can it, Klopp has been in the job about 18 months and we are worse than last season.
It's alrite people saying to me I keep saying the same stuff but the reason for that is simple....THE SAME PROBLEMS EXIST...

I don't recall any of these mitigating circumstances being offered up by you for Karius? In fact you were the main protagonist in the witch hunt for him on here.

Yep, that's about it.

We have 1 player who is somewhere close to something called form, and he was benched in the weekend. For Can! Haha. That's almost hilarious!

Poor Wijnaldum has finally started to get up to speed, and scoring goals. Then suddenly dropped.

Just how long will it take before the penny drops, and our most out of form players are finally benched?

And as I said the other day: Lucas as cb. Hasn't he shown by now that it doesn't work? Gomez on the bench while Lucas continues to struggle?

Can we now please have our current best XI (on recent form) on the pitch against Spuds on Saturday? If they aren't best class wise doesn't matter if the class players are so out of form they can't even make a simple pass.

I would change formation if necessary just to get the not so out of form players on the pitch.

For some reason Karius is held to higher standards than Mignolet, I've no idea why.

We don't have enough quality in the squad to make wholesale changes unfortunately.

And I agree about Wijnaldum, I can't believe he was left out for Can, two holding midfield players against Hull who were happy to sit back and invite us on.

Some good points made especially about Wijnaldum being left out for two holding midfielders against the mighty Hull City or Tigers, we haven't seen bizzare team selections and formations since Rodgers lost the plot before the end of his reign... most worrying thing is the amount of faults posters are pointing out and the worst thing is most are valid...what's happening with our Club, this ain't no blip.

karius's blunders were for me the reason the rot started at bournemouth

In our next 6 league games after Bournemouth we won 4 and drew 2, so how on earth did the rot start after Bournemouth?

To blame a single player for the problems is nothing short of ridiculous, have a word with yourself seriously.

I agree, no one player can be blamed for our recent poor results/form. We have been dominating possession but not creating/scoring goals, how can a goalkeeper be blamed for that? we have been caught on the break and let in poor goals, with bad defending from the whole team.

Our downturn started after the city game so how is it Karius' fault? And if Saturday's result isn't all down to Flappy, then how come you don't hold the same for Karius?

Proper double standards and your treatment of Karius was disgraceful to say the least.

maybe if we are dominating possession the problem lies with the cutting edge and when you have a manager that chooses not to play with a recognised forward and leaves two in Sturridge and Origi on the bench it might mean the problem is with the manager.
To be honest and I could be wrong about this, I thought Origi was hitting a bit of goal scoring form around about the Bournemouth game when he scored and was it the previous home game when his goal either got us back in the game or was it a winner...can't remember now, anyway the manager dropped him and since he's come back he looks like he's struggling with form and confidence...manager again for me...

Karius was the victim of a witch hunt.

"No hands" has sealed his own fate and I will guarantee you not one Liverpool fan was even mildly surprised when he messed up again on Saturday.

He received a lot of criticism because he was put into a position he should never have been in, and that was because of the manager.

I'd also like to know where Carra and Neville are spouting their bile about Migs from their nice warm studio? And all the newspaper coverage too?

You are absolutely right there of course.

I mean that we need to take the worst players out of the equation on Saturday, and I mean form wise.

Normally Lallana, Firmino and Coutinho would all be playing, but since they are all struggling with form, I'd make one or two changes there.

Lallana: Has started to stroll around again, as he did last year. Seems to be running up when the others are running down, and the other way around. But he is at least putting a decent shift in. He is not that far from good form and might suddenly spark again. I'd keep him in the team.

Firmino: Oooh what a waster. Suarez his first year is like a smooth summer sea breeze compared to this. Loses the ball and doesn't seem to be working as hard as before trying to get the ball back. I'm not so sure I'd like him to start on Saturday. If so it has to be as a winger or in the N:o 10 role. As a striker? No thanks!

Coutinho: Is so far from form that he just has to be dropped IMO. Keep playing him and it will only get worse. Maybe put him on for the last 10 minutes or so if we are in the lead and need to keep the ball up. Not sure he can even help us with this task on current form though. But either way an option from the bech.

Can: Clumsy. Runs forwards with the ball until someone takes it off him. Then counter attack in our end. Can't shoot. Misses every chance. Too slow. Making the wrong choice with passes. Can't defend on set pieces. Hopeless. At least at the moment. The irony here is that with more game time he'll probably burst into form again. But can we afford the time needed for that experiment? I say no.

Lucas: Nononono. Get Gomez in there if both Lovren and Klavan are out.

Mignolet: Is just being himself on the pitch. As usual. Makes some wonder saves, but then we see them all undone with catastrophical easy mistakes. But is Karius any different? I'd say no from what I've seen so far. The difference between them is that the latter seemed to have lost all self confidence before he was finally benched. Mignolet on the other hand seems high on confidence as usual. It's like pouring water on a goose. At this point in the season it's all about form and confidence for me, so it has to be Mignolet in goal. We need a better first keeper than him, but we haven't got it. Shame but true.

The rest of the usual starting XI is impossible to replace at this point, so they need to stay in there. Whether they're good enough to face Spuds is irrelevant. We simply have no alternatives.

So all in all: For me it has to be something like this against Spuds (4-2-3-1):

-----------Mignolet----------

Clyne-Matip-Lovren-Milner

--Henderson--Wijnaldum--
-Lallana---Firmino---Origi-

----------Sturridge---------

Bench: Karius, Gomez, Klavan, Lucas, Can, Coutinho, Ojo.

the rot started at bournemouth ok won a couple after that but the doubt and rot was started at bournemouth , then west ham at home karuis again messed up .

I think what Faz meant is that we did not lose the game on Saturday only because of Mignolet. However, we lost the Bornemouth game because of Karius as we had score 3 and he made at least 2 blunders. Are you saying Karius is a better choice than Mignolet? For me both are crap, Karius is worse from what I have seen, he makes mistakes in most games he plays, some cost us some not, Mignolet also makes mistkes but less.

So Mane won't even make the bench for you? Wow.

I think a big problem is the fact that we have a fair share of average players who regularly get a run out. A side of 8 or so good and great players will lift the strugglers to perform better. But if half or more of the players are average or poor and the boss touts them as "winners" it brings down the player morale and standards.
And that is where we are now. We have team of 11 Lucases on the field.

Another way of putting it would be that I somehow managed to miss Man� completely.


My revised squad:


-----------Mignolet----------

Clyne-Matip-Lovren-Milner

--Henderson--Wijnaldum--
-Man�---Lallana---Firmino-

----------Sturridge---------

Bench: Karius, Gomez, Klavan, Lucas, Can, Coutinho, Origi.

As I've stated your completely wrong here, after Bournemouth we drew at home to West Ham, then won four on the spin, Middlesbrough, Everton, Stoke and Man City before drawing to Sunderland. Going unbeaten in 6 games after Bournemouth and winning 4 of them is not even close to being a rot.

Unfortunately you are blinded by your dislike for one player and the fact that you think it's acceptable to blame one player for our struggles and dip in form tells me everything I need to know.

I'm sorry vish but that don't wash with me. You can't say that Karius was soley responsible for the Bournemouth game and Miss wasn't for Hull. What kind of double standard is that? Why make up these mitigating circumstances for one and not the other?

For me the two are no different apart from Migs has had more than three seasons to prove he's not good enough where as Karius barely had 10 games to improve.

What Karius did mistake wise is nothing compared to what Migs has done yet he wasn't given a chance to improve. Now Migs has made his inevitable mistakes, he should be dropped as Karius was.

Yep, completely agree there Wilks.

But dropping Mignolet now and putting Karius back between the sticks would not be any better IMO. We have no other options available and it's like making a choice between 2 equally bad things.

Migs is the slightly less bad option for me because his self confidence doesn't appear to have dropped like it clearly has for Karius.

Can't believe people are talking about these two goalkeepers, both are as bad as each other, it's like asking would you rather be hit with a ton of bricks or a ton of steel both are exactly the same no difference. Instead of the question who is the better or worse keeper maybe people should be asking why has the manager put us in the situation where we are asking this question especially when we ha e just had s transfer window.

Totally irrelevant argumentation atm.

The window has shut and we can't sign anyone now.

Hence the discussion about who to pick from those 2 keepers.

Aren't you always talking about focussing on the bad things to try and correct them? Well guess what: You can't sign a new keeper now, so stop arguing about that.

Exactly. He was the main cheerleader on here for kicking Karius out. It was a little embarrassing the way some treat our players.

so can we not sign players out of contract then? Is there no goalkeepers out there whose contracts have expired even older one like Cassillas surely there's goalkeepers we could sign now .

yes you probably mean me as I wanted him out the team, my fault, what am I thinking by expecting a player who pulls on a red shirt to have a certain level of performance in him. I apologise for treating him like an employee and I know he doesn't see playing for Liverpool as s job, I am to blame thinking I have a right to demand a level of performance out of players at just a mere 60 quid a game I pay and it doesn't give you the right of that sort of opinion, like I say it's my fault he should play every game and anybody who has s go at these 100k a week players for going through the motions should hang there heads in shame me included.

Before I forget Y.N.W.A as if you say that the magical power engulfs us all...

How can I be talking about you? You weren't even registered when Karius got dropped?

i am one of the posters you are referring too who wanted the German goalkeeper out of the team, I know you have backed him but for me that's misplaced loyalty, he's dreadful.

Why pick a scapegoat? Look at the defense, it's shambolic. Don't think he's done any worse than Mingolet to be honest.

yes fair enough I shouldn't just highlight him, to be honest I don't really blame him, the man to bland is the person who brought him here in the first place. Surely we shouldn't be going backwards as a team...notice I don't mention the Club there...that's because the Club is in such rude health financial wise.

People pick scapegoats because it's the done thing now and shows a lack of understanding of the team and football in general.

Football is a team game and mistakes are being made all over the pitch, from front to back. How many times have our forwards fluffed their lines and we're not holding any of those solely to blame are we?

if football is a team have and nobody should be singled out why are there individual awards like player of the year etc? Is that lack of understanding on there part...don't the powers that be understand football either...

He has been dreadful,but dreadful is Migns middle name as we know,so why so keen to bring him back when K may become average with time?

He was making too many mistakes, more than Mignolet

Nothing stopping him getting a recall now and seeing if he can flap at the opportunity with two hands.

Well maybe it is the time to bring back the German Keeper, the way I see it is this we all know Migs isn't the answer and will be sold in the summer, we can now play the German in meaningless pointless games now until the end of the season with no pressure on him, if he cuts the mustard then keep him possibly as a number two... if not ship him out in the summer too...easy...

If Migs is to be treated the same, as he should, then Karius should get another crack at it now.

Maybe he's not the answer ultimately but the thing that p!sses me off is the stick he got, the witch hunt in blue media and by so called fans. I can't remember hearing Carra or Neville spouting off about Migs or the back page spreads.

From what I have seen of the 2 of them this season. Mingolet has been slightly better. At this point Mingolet needs to be sold in the summer. I'd put Karius back in the team to see what he has got. Give him a couple of games and decide from there.

Unless Karius really excels between now and the end of the season then we need an upgrade in the summer. If he can't up his game then he is not what we need.

We can't be dealing with this [oops] from a keeper next season. This will he or won't he up his game is not good enough unless we are aspiring to mid table. which is another topic..........

Except that he made a mistake in the last cup game as well and he really doesn't look confident. I would still go with Mignolet buy buy Hart or Schmeichel in the summer

Yep, we definitely need a reliable keeper next season, should help our defenders also, I'd give Karius a run now to the end of the season to see if he is good enough and can step up, I do not think Migs is any better and he will drop more clangers, so I don't see it as a big risk and much to lose.

Sell Migns in the summer, bring in either Hart or Schmeichael would be good number 1's or competition for Karius if he starts number 1.

From what I have seen lately, Karius is a bigger risk. I would play him as soon as we have no realistic chance of qualifying for CL anymore, which may come very soon.

To me they are very similar ATM, Karius should improve over time, Migs is what we have seen for last 4 years, if we qualify for CL, it will be down to us outscoring teams 3-2/4-3 etc, like we did in the first half of the season, not on our defensive prowess/GK.

Can't see us continue outscoring teams, even with Suarez and a firing Sturridge and Sterling we couldn't until the end of the season.

I agree, I doubt we will do it, but we did first half of the season, but the whole team seems to have gone off the ball at the same time, I doubt Klopp will be able to turn us into a strong defensive unit for the second half of the season, unless he radically changes his system?

I would be tempted to say sod it, go 3 at the back:

Karius

Can --- Matip -- Lovren

Clyne -- Henderson -- Milner -- Coutinho

Mane --- Sturridge --- Firminho


was a close call between Milner/Wijnaldum, I just think Milner will give more defensive cover.

I don't think we can play without any defensive player on the left. I would go with a 3-4-3 formation but with Moreno on the left, with a forward 3 of Coutinho, Firmino and Mane. Lallana would be the back up for the forward 3 or played with Milner or Henderson when we need more attack.

Yeah, I was pondering Moreno, I think we 3 at the back would bring out the best in him (something has to!!!), I remember how Chelsea were struggling at the start of the season, Conte switched it around and it made a massive improvement, I think its worth a go at this stage, I think it suits the players we have better, its make or break time really.

The problem is that we don't even have 3 good cb's!

On another note, I just saw that Wijnaldum has been named player of the month at LFC. That must be tough for him (and for Klopp), seeing as he is being kept out from the starting XI by the dreadful Can!

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-te...-chartered-potm

Wijnaldum has definitely been better than Can. I would rather think Can played because he was fresher, Wijnaldum has played a loy of games with a lot of pressing.

Wijnaldum has played in 7 of our total of 10 games in January. Starting in 6 of them.

Can has played in 8 of our 10 games over the same period, starting in 7 of them.

So I'd say Wijnaldum has been rested for tactical reasons more than anything else, which is shocking considering Can's ability and recent form.

You cannot take Jan for your analysis as Jan is already the result following the number of times Wijnaldum played, You should rather take the period before Jan, basically since the beginning of the season. I wouldn't be surprised if Wijnaldum was one of the most used player in our whole squad

never believed in the nonsense of resting players .

Unlike robots, human beings do need to be rested, I don't know about you but, I do get tired. Even if it is not physical there is burn out.

Exactly. To suggest a human being doesn't need resting after weeks of physical exertion is a little on the stupid side.

If ONLY we had a Sakho to compliment Matip & Lovren as a back 3?
I think Klopp has to change our formation and style because everybody has sussed us out. Points are going to be hard to come by if he persists with the same system.
Our goals have dried up and that overwhelming figure we were excelling at (Most Goals Scored) has been well and truly reigned in by Arsenal, Chelsea & City!

Priorities in the summer has to be:
Goalkeeper - Most important signing needed for me! Mignolet MUST be sold, he has not improved since he's been at the club and is GUARANTEED to be at fault for a lot of goals over the course of a season, due to his "Goldfish" concentration. His communication and distribution are not far behind his concentration level.
I'd keep Karius as a back-up purely because he's still young and with a decent Goalkeeping Coach he can improve...which brings up JOHN ACHTERBERG!!! how is he still at the club?

Defence - The Milner @LB role has not worked, he keeps getting caught out, upfield when teams counter attack us because he is too slow. Yes he's got some nice assists figures but wouldn't that be improved even more if he was in his natural role?
So a natural, quality LB needed!
Klavan...meh...slower than mud and at an age that he is not going to improve, so get rid!
Sakho has obviously burned his bridges with Klopp and there is no way back, so must be sold!
Moreno is a liability, has had many chances to turn it around and has failed each time...must be sold!
So at least 2 quality CB's needed and cover for both the incoming LB and Clyne with Gomez as cover along the backline.

Midfield - A quality natural DM needed (I'd put that position close behind Keeper in Urgency)...Kondogbia of Inter would be a great acquisition for this position. Other than that and maybe a fast winger who can play on either flank!

Attack - Sturridge we must sell on whilst he has any value, Klopp does not trust him!
Keep Origi & Ings but get a quality, experienced, trustworthy, not injury prone Striker!

Mignolet, Sakho, Klavan, Moreno & Sturridge sold to bolster the transfer kitty for 7 Players & A Goalkeeping Coach! And that is to be at the very least competitive next season with Europa League likely to be in our fixture lists!

Agree but bringing 7 new players in the squad is going to be an issue. This is why we needed a couple in the last window. Thus, work in progress again next season. Anyway, Klopp wanted to win the league in his 4th season, maybe this is what his target is, the rest is mere distraction

It's going to be an issue no matter which way we look at it. The squad is threadbare, lacking in quality and punched above it's weight the first few months of the season. FSG MUST put at least 100 mill up for transfers with the rest coming from players sold!

I disagree with this, Players are not human beings...the reason for this is we have to take them on face value and nothing else and treat them fairly just the same as the rest of us are judged in our jobs.
Simple...if a player puts his name on super human wages contract then am sorry he has to be judged on super human standards not the same standards as the rest of us. I will give you another example if ure a bricklayer and lay 20 bricks an hour for 100 quid a day and the boss offers you a contract for double that 200 quid a week but wants 40 bricks an hour and you put your name on that contract and don't deliver you can't have people saying he hasn't delivered because he's tired or it's not possible to work well all the time, don't put your name on a contract and expect not to be criticised if you don't do what you signed to do...simple...

Complete nonsense

Can't be none sense because you can't come up with a counter argument to prove it is, typical tho but no worries...

Here's my counter argument

You said "Players are not human beings.."

I'm saying "Yes they are."

THE END

They are elite athletes. Not your average joe soap

Not disputing that. He said they are not human beings, I said they are.

If we don't buy a proper fukking goalkeeper in the summer then I'm going to join you lot in the hysterical camp!

Over and above everything else, that HAS to be sorted!

Well as they say, there's no arguing with ...........

I agree with him to a point. Where if you are in a high profile job then you should work to that standard. I got a small promotion recently with a small pay rise. I am now constantly being reminded that I need to take on more responsibility and be responsible for people below me. This all from a small promotion in an already demanding job.

Footballers are soft. It is not their fault,but the environment that was created for them. And because of the whole environment is it acceptable for a lot of them to not do their jobs and pick up their wages every week. And it is acceptable to a lot of fans that they do this as well.

That is why I have no issue with someone questioning them. If you want to look at proper elite athletics actually doing their jobs and going beyond that, look at runners, cyclists, swimmers, olympians

Hopefully klopp buys at least for the positions that we are desperate for but who ever he decides has the right skills i hope it includes someone with a gritty personality who can lead on the pitch, find a captain who can lead the team to start with, we have light weights when it comes to being vocal and getting stuck in imo.

So what happens when say Usain Bolt doesn't win a race? Has he done his job properly? Or Chris Froome if he doesn't win a race or falls from his bike? All athletes suffer from time to time and all of them need a rest. The Tour De France has rest days for example. There's usually a couple of days between the heats and the finals of races in the Olympics. Tennis players get a rest etc.

Regardless of pay, they are still human beings and regardless of how fit they are they will still suffer fatigue as everyone does. To think they don't or shouldn't is a just a little wrong.

Players are not human beings, so what are they? We all knew you were stupid but not as much. Also, I don't think they mention the number of games they need to play in their contract, what is this nonsense? Regarding your bricklayer, so what happens if he cannot lay the bricks even if he has put his name I don't know where, does he get whipped? Maybe you didn't know in your hole, slavery has been abolished at least officially. You need to read a bit.

am sorry If Usain Bolt puts his name on a contract for 100 million pound a race you saying he's not expected to win every one and when he doesn't you think it's fair to use the excuse he's only human? Sorry no chance not in a million years.

I will give you another example and use your Usain Bolt anology...
If you are a runner and run 100 meters in 15 seconds and get paid 100k a race and a sponsor comes across and says they will pay you a million pound a race but you have to run it in 10 seconds firstly you have to decide wether you are able to put your name on the contract and run 10 seconds a race and if you do put your name on the contract are you telling me you shouldn't be expected to be judged on what you have said you will do and the money you will then be picking up. I think if a person picks up super human wages they definitely have to be judged by super human standards so the excuse they can't play well all the time doesn't apply with that sort of money involved especially when you have signed a contract which says you will play well all the time, can't manage it or don't like those judgement standards...simple don't sign the contract...

What kind of players would we have if we offered them � 20 per played game then?

Only players used were paid, and substitutes only paid for the fraction of the game played.

That would be financially perfect for the club, wouldn't it?

All the TV money has inflated player wages. If we don't pay them someone else will.

Sadly this is where we have landed. Deal with it or don't.

And don't tell me moaning about it will help solve any problems, because it won't!

The fact is we're all guilty of creating this monster by feeding it!

The point I am making is a simple one, don't use the excuse they are only human and can't play well all the time...they aren't because they are payed super human wages so they have to be judged on superhuman standards which means for that sort of money you have to play well all the time. If players don't like that, don't think it's fair to expect them to play well all the time or think they are being judged too harshly then fine....just don't put your name on a contract giving you an obscene amount of money or a weeks money it takes an average man about 5 years too earn...simple....

In their contract it is written NOWHERE that that have to play all games, so as usual you are talking crap. Even super humans (I am not sure what that is) get injured or out of form or tired. Use your brain a bit not your bitterness

Very true. I also believe that the incentive for many players and their agent is to do enough to win that big contract then you have "made it" and onfield performance doesn't matter much at all.

like I say I did mention that they get judged on face value by fans but being your so far away it might have been lost in translation so I will try to make it simple for a person like you to understand. Fans judge players certain ways we don't know the nuts and bolts of what's actually in his contract so we judge on what we see and know. If Lucas and Steven Gerrard are both on 50k a week and all of a sudden Gerrard is given 100k a week we as fans expect Gerrard to play twice a well as Lucas for that sort of money, if he doesn't and plays the same or just a little bit better then Gerrard is open to critism. If you look at another example, why did Andy Carroll get treated differently from Craig Bellamy and David NGog...it was because for 35 million pounds he had to play considerably better to justify that outlay, this is the way fans judge players and why players can't hide behind the excuse he's only human he can't play well all the time, that might work for a bog standard ordinary player on 20 grand a week but certainly not one on 100k a week.

When all else fails you always show your ignorance.

It was always going to happen.

must be ignorance because I haven't the foggiest about what you are now talking about ?

I don't know why people are so bitter about how much footballers earn, it just comes over as sad. It's obscene but who cares. Film stars, sports stars, F1 drivers... they get paid because they can do what others can't and it makes the owners a lot of money, who wouldn't take an extra 50k a week from FSG if they could?
It's a short career, would you be happier if they earnt the average wage?

I take it you don't go to the match then, maybe if you did you would feel differently about forking out so much money towards funding John Henry's a*se pocket or primal Donna players wages which they will never spend...

Agree. The amount of money coming into football, why do the players not deserve a cut? It's a huge amount but like you say, there are plenty of others getting as much or close to what they do.

Nobody is forcing you to go and if there were no players you would be watching the turf. You can even pay less to watch another team in a lower division where players earn less, why don't you try that? When Henry doesn't pay high wages you complain, when he does you complain about players' wages...do you get your picture?

The only point you ended up making is that you are ignorant and judging on ignorance. The only person to be blamed for ignorance is you isn't it?

nope I will never agree with you and the poster above you on that opinion am afraid, both of you don't go to the match or if you do it's the odd occasion so your opinion doesn't carry much weight, maybe if you did then your opinion would change when you have to cough up your hard earned cash and watch players go through the motions half the time or playing in dead competition like the League when there's nothin on it.
I think that's probably why it's so easy for people like you to say to match going fans if you don't like it then don't go, if you had any idea how hard for a person who has always gone the match to do that you wouldn't pass it off so lightly.
A person who doesn't go the match will never think like a person who regularly goes it's a bit like this mythical season ticket list that has about 2 million on it according to some, we all know that if you actualy offered a season ticket to these people and demanded 850 quid a season most wouldn't take you up on that offer and instead make an excuse...

So because you go to games and pay your hard earned cash to do so, you want players to become robots who shouldn't get tired, out of form or injured? Keep hoping then and good luck.

Why are you bothering Vish?

I know you're right but it is not easy not to answer to such crap sometimes...

yes that's exactly what I expect and if I don't get that after parting with my hard earned cash I will moan, complain and say it's not good enough, that's how it works. Why did people on here complain when we got beat by Swansea City and Hull City recently, according to you they shouldn't because the team can't play well all the time or the team can't win every game that's what your saying isn't it the team is not a robot after all...

Why do you cry and moan here then, this is not the right forum, send a letter to the club or go and cry infront of Anfield, you should even think of a hunger strike maybe at the gate if they don't let you in. Good luck anyway.

Exactly.

yes suppose you could be right so if that goes for me it surely has to go for all those other posters on here who were not happy and moaned about the defeats against Swansea and Hull recently...fine good look telling them they should write a letter or go on a hunger strike as you say. I look forward to you posting the same thing to all those posters who complain next time we get beat by a Crystal Palace or Bournemouth at home when you say they can't play well all the time or even better there only human...quality post tho made me chuckle...

Yeah I went a couple weeks ago, cost me �140. It was a season ticket holder from Europe :-) Can't get tickets for love nor money otherwise. Usually my brother gets corporate from EON. Not sure what you'd find worse..

I don't care where the money goes or how much he makes, it's my choice to go and I had a great day/night in Liverpool. Ended up competing in a bodyweight squat competition with a 56 yr old Scouse woman! The worst thing is she beat me, and I do boxing circuits 5 times a week (she cheated).

I hope you're just wumming. It doesn't make a difference to me, I don't post much, it'd just be sad if you weren't. I understand why you're so bitter though, I guess an American billionaire has bought the club, on the cheap, make hundreds of millions and local working class are being priced out of their own club. It's tough but you need to move on, times change. Spending your hours here bitching isn't gonna help. I'd probably start by stopping going.

yes you make some good points but like I said previously your opinion doesn't really count as you sound like a day tripper to me who makes a pilgrimage to Anfield maybe a couple of times a season, 140 quid isn't bad at all for the amount of games you probably attend and I am quite sure you would feel different if you had to shell out about 300 hundred quid a month for games like a lot of match going fans do when some months we can play 3 home games in a week. I am glad you had a good time in my fair City and hope you return soon, hope you post on here more frequently from now on as I like your contribution.

So do you think Anfield is sold out now Wiseone? I know we have discussed the stadium expansion a few times, so not really debating that, but you seemed to be convinced that Anfield was on average 1000 below capacity, to allot of people that is fans/corporate not turning up, as people just can't get hold of tickets unless they buy from season ticket holders on the black market.

I think all we can deal in is what we know, we know the stadium holds a touch over 54k, we know the average has been 52,949 which is more than a thousand down, people say that it doesn't count because it's only hospitality which never sells out anyway which is fine so the question is why is the average attendances for so called rivals United 500 seats below, Arsenal 400 below, West Ham 50 seats below, City is 1k below, Chelsea 300 below and Everton 200 seats all below there stadiums capacity. We were told Liverpool has all these supporters worldwide, tickets so hard to get and the stadium should have a much bigger capacity than 54k yet the facts prove otherwise don't they, people can't hide behind they are corporate seats excuse because clubs with bigger stadiums and bigger corporate areas are still not as many below capacity as what we are apart from Manchester City who are building up and not shrinking like us.
Another point I want to make is posters saying you can't get tickets well I am telling you now there are loads of tickets going around where I work for home games and people don't want them, people selling them are even knocking money off them to get shut of them some even leave there seats empty like the recent Cup game against Plymouth.
I think because the Club has been starved of success for such a long time now and the Club is starting to run on fumes regarding trading on past glory and reputation the customer base is now shrinking, not filling out is a clear indication. I wouldn't be surprised if FSG knew they wouldn't fill a 57k stadium and that's the real reason there's going to be no Anfield Road expansion, imagine how foolish we would look if we did and the attendence fell further which in time it will. Seen this before back in the 70s when Chelsea built there massive east stand and within two years they got relegated and it became a massive white elephant when attendances dropped, not that we would get relegated....

If you try and buy tickets online, which i need to do to get to games, it costs �120+ a ticket.....that's a fact. That gives me the impression that the demand for tickets for games is very high. I have friends that are Spurs fans that can easily get tickets for games for under �50 and they can't believe how in demand LFC tickets are.

If you really do have loads of mates/colleagues at work that are not bothering to go to games or giving their tickets away then they must be stupid. Why have a season ticket in the first place and if they can't be ar$sed to go to certain games why not sell the tickets online and make a massive profit (or give them to me)?

Complaining is one thing but bitching, crying moaning like you is another. You should change your name to the BitterOne or the DepressedOne. Don't you get it, most people don't like you here and want you gone, I suppose it is like that in real life so you are used to it, BitterOne.

His mates are probably as wise as him unless he is lying.

My opinion counts as I pay a lot more per game than you and hundreds more on hotels and entertainment etc.. If I had to shell out twice as much for 3-4 times more games... I'd be quite happy if I chose to go. I paid 75 for corporate in November and it was a 5-0 drumming. I wouldn't pay �140 again anytime soon, but that's my decision.

Tickets are very much in demand though. These sites have hundreds available and they wouldn't let them go to waste by pricing too high. It's just a fact.

Good points RedJohn, unfortunately Glad you enjoy your trips to my hometown and we are always pleased to welcome visitors as they provide a valuable income to our City. The thing is RedJohn , Liverpool Football Club doesn't get a cut out of the money you spend on hotels or in the bars so unfortunately so your defence is a bit flawed. About you spending more money. You may spend more on a corporate seat than an ordinary seat though which is fine as am sure John Henry will appreciate that, in fact I know John and his wife Linda would rather have people like your good self spending money on a corporate seat than us season ticket holders because he gets nearly 3 times as much money for each seat. My point remains however I think if you had to shell out the money it costs for a ticket constantly on a regular basis instead of once in a blue moon which you do now then you would certainly have a different point of view, as it is now going the match for people like your good self and also some posters on here is seen as a bit of a novelty or a little tick on the bucket list where they can say they have attended a Premier League Game...if I have that wrong I will apologise in advance....

This kind of stuff isn't welcome on KopTalk.

I feel 2-3 games per season is more than a blue moon, but thats just my opinion.

'my hometown', 'we are pleased' ;-)

My opinion, if i didnt like the product i was paying semi-decent money for, would be to stop paying it, not isolate fellow fans on a forum. I'd say you're doing just what fsg want and should accept your part in the clubs current predicament.
I should add, though i did my best to rally the locals, the atmosphere was poor. Sad to see my club in such decline.

Come on Dunk give him a chance he's new on here

Silence is the sleep that nourishes wisdom.

Probably first time you are warning him under this name, but not first time he is doing this even under this new name. Everytime we have to suck up for a few weeks...

.... and gone

Shame it's the same poster who has been banned many times before but keeps coming back and spouting the same rubbish.

You know it'll always come to this so why bother letting back on time and time again?