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#638669 - 12/09/21 11:09 AM How good are FSG?
BARTON42 Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 25/02/14
Posts: 182

FSG have gotten a lot of criticism for not spending this last transfer window and generally not spending as much as their rivals. How much of this criticism is warranted?

Iím not so sure it is fair because in the past when it was required they went out and spent world record fees on the best goalkeeper and centre back in the world and that won us the CL and EPL after a 30 year wait.

The other top 3 have spent megabucks this summer but do we really need to:

We have 4 world class centre backs and more behind them.

Possibly the best right and left back in the league with very good cover both sides.

I think the starting 3 in midfield is probably Fabhino, Henderson and Thiago. Behind them we have Keita, Elliot, OX and Jones.

Up front we have 4 of the best players in the league for 3 spots.

The point Iím making is that I think if Klopp tells them he needs to pay big for a certain player/position they will support him and it seems to me this summer he happy with the players he already has.

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#638670 - 12/09/21 12:03 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: BARTON42]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 27367
Loc: Not the EU
I heard they spent on VVD and allison because they had the money from countinho sale so they invested nothing at all.

But I donít believe that, canít be true.

John Henry paid it out of his own pocket
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#638671 - 12/09/21 12:23 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: BARTON42]
ecnirp98 Online   content
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 5904
Loc: Madchester
On paper you cannot argue with what FSG have delivered in their 10 years, when they took Liverpool FC over we were on the verge of going into administration under Hicks & Gillet, with banks calling on our loans and court battles over ownership, our best players like Alonso & Mascherano had been recently sold off to furnish our debts, with other star players like Torres wanting to leave, we had Hodgson in charge as manager, who could blame them..... since that they have delivered the CL & PL, another CL final, Europa final and played some great football.

FSG have brought in probably the best manager we could have in Klopp, for what he can do on a relatively small budget and for how he works and links with the club/fans, it is a unique relationship in the modern era.

FSG bought us relatively cheap as a distressed club on the verge of banks calling in loans, they have improved our commercial business, based on our global name, which has hugely increase our revenue and has meant we are pretty much self sufficient as a club, they are not sugar daddys who fund the club, they do not take any money out, they will get a hug pay off when they sell the club, as we are valued around 10 times what they paid for us.

The problem is we have an ageing team, key our front like are all 29-30, so need replacing in the next year or so, similar with Midfield, we have the likes of Henderson, Tiago in their early 30's, we need to bring in long term replacement for them to bring in their quality will cost big ££££ unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but not we have more competition from the likes of Leicester buying up & coming players.

VvD, Fab & Allisson were all bought off the back of selling Coutinho for a hugely overpriced fee, we may have got one without selling him, but not all 3. The concern now is there are not the crazy super clubs like Barca & RM paying the huge fee's for the likes of Coutinho as the market has plummeted and they are in big debt. Liverpool's model was to sell high and bring in cheaper replacements and develop them into world class players, like we did with Mane & Salah, but this is harden now as our rivals are doing similar.

I think the big concern is that our rivals like Chelsea, Man Utd & Man City are making big long term investments, buying the best World Class players like Sancho, Havertz, Grealish etc, which in the long term I think will leave us behind as we will struggle to find the equivalent at a cheap price, which we have to spend based on our balancing the books model, where as our rivals do not due to their ownership funding them (apart from Utd who have a unique brand that just generates £££ even when they are crap!!!).

So overall I think FSG have been good owners, if you would have told most LFC fans that we would win the CL & PL and have the best manager on the planet when they took over 10 years ago we would not have believed it. But FSG seem over cautious, just winning the PL & CL our profile was higher than ever, lots of leagues like La Liga , Germany & France are struggling, so their players are available at a lower price, look how Utd got Sancho, we could have done that, same with Havertz and Werner, now was the time to invest for the future and strengthen, but we also seem to try and do it on the cheap, relying on Klopp & Edwards to find diamonds for a quarter of the budget of our rivals......


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#638672 - 12/09/21 02:32 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: ecnirp98]
BARTON42 Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 25/02/14
Posts: 182
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
On paper you cannot argue with what FSG have delivered in their 10 years, when they took Liverpool FC over we were on the verge of going into administration under Hicks & Gillet, with banks calling on our loans and court battles over ownership, our best players like Alonso & Mascherano had been recently sold off to furnish our debts, with other star players like Torres wanting to leave, we had Hodgson in charge as manager, who could blame them..... since that they have delivered the CL & PL, another CL final, Europa final and played some great football.

FSG have brought in probably the best manager we could have in Klopp, for what he can do on a relatively small budget and for how he works and links with the club/fans, it is a unique relationship in the modern era.

FSG bought us relatively cheap as a distressed club on the verge of banks calling in loans, they have improved our commercial business, based on our global name, which has hugely increase our revenue and has meant we are pretty much self sufficient as a club, they are not sugar daddys who fund the club, they do not take any money out, they will get a hug pay off when they sell the club, as we are valued around 10 times what they paid for us.

The problem is we have an ageing team, key our front like are all 29-30, so need replacing in the next year or so, similar with Midfield, we have the likes of Henderson, Tiago in their early 30's, we need to bring in long term replacement for them to bring in their quality will cost big ££££ unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but not we have more competition from the likes of Leicester buying up & coming players.

VvD, Fab & Allisson were all bought off the back of selling Coutinho for a hugely overpriced fee, we may have got one without selling him, but not all 3. The concern now is there are not the crazy super clubs like Barca & RM paying the huge fee's for the likes of Coutinho as the market has plummeted and they are in big debt. Liverpool's model was to sell high and bring in cheaper replacements and develop them into world class players, like we did with Mane & Salah, but this is harden now as our rivals are doing similar.

I think the big concern is that our rivals like Chelsea, Man Utd & Man City are making big long term investments, buying the best World Class players like Sancho, Havertz, Grealish etc, which in the long term I think will leave us behind as we will struggle to find the equivalent at a cheap price, which we have to spend based on our balancing the books model, where as our rivals do not due to their ownership funding them (apart from Utd who have a unique brand that just generates £££ even when they are crap!!!).

So overall I think FSG have been good owners, if you would have told most LFC fans that we would win the CL & PL and have the best manager on the planet when they took over 10 years ago we would not have believed it. But FSG seem over cautious, just winning the PL & CL our profile was higher than ever, lots of leagues like La Liga , Germany & France are struggling, so their players are available at a lower price, look how Utd got Sancho, we could have done that, same with Havertz and Werner, now was the time to invest for the future and strengthen, but we also seem to try and do it on the cheap, relying on Klopp & Edwards to find diamonds for a quarter of the budget of our rivals......



Thanks for the great post. One question; You say Man Utd have a unique brand but I donít thick LFC is far behind them in that regard. Is it not just a case of our commercial operation catching up with Man Utd for us to have the same spending power?

Currently Man Utd monitise their brand better than us but we can catch up.


Edited by BARTON42 (12/09/21 02:33 PM)

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#638673 - 12/09/21 03:18 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: BARTON42]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22377
Originally Posted By BARTON42

FSG have gotten a lot of criticism for not spending this last transfer window and generally not spending as much as their rivals. How much of this criticism is warranted?

Iím not so sure it is fair because in the past when it was required they went out and spent world record fees on the best goalkeeper and centre back in the world and that won us the CL and EPL after a 30 year wait.

The other top 3 have spent megabucks this summer but do we really need to:

We have 4 world class centre backs and more behind them.

Possibly the best right and left back in the league with very good cover both sides.

I think the starting 3 in midfield is probably Fabhino, Henderson and Thiago. Behind them we have Keita, Elliot, OX and Jones.

Up front we have 4 of the best players in the league for 3 spots.

The point Iím making is that I think if Klopp tells them he needs to pay big for a certain player/position they will support him and it seems to me this summer he happy with the players he already has.


We have, if I am not mistaken, the 12th Net spend and we only bought Alisson and VVD because we sold Coutinho. And if Klopp asks for a player, they'll say, ok, but find the money yourself from selling players. Weird you didn't notice this

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#638674 - 12/09/21 03:18 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: BARTON42]
kernowred Online   content
Under 23 Player

Registered: 25/10/09
Posts: 1919
Loc: the pasty capital.
they are good at increasing the value of their asset.

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#638675 - 12/09/21 03:24 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: ecnirp98]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22377
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
On paper you cannot argue with what FSG have delivered in their 10 years, when they took Liverpool FC over we were on the verge of going into administration under Hicks & Gillet, with banks calling on our loans and court battles over ownership, our best players like Alonso & Mascherano had been recently sold off to furnish our debts, with other star players like Torres wanting to leave, we had Hodgson in charge as manager, who could blame them..... since that they have delivered the CL & PL, another CL final, Europa final and played some great football.

FSG have brought in probably the best manager we could have in Klopp, for what he can do on a relatively small budget and for how he works and links with the club/fans, it is a unique relationship in the modern era.

FSG bought us relatively cheap as a distressed club on the verge of banks calling in loans, they have improved our commercial business, based on our global name, which has hugely increase our revenue and has meant we are pretty much self sufficient as a club, they are not sugar daddys who fund the club, they do not take any money out, they will get a hug pay off when they sell the club, as we are valued around 10 times what they paid for us.

The problem is we have an ageing team, key our front like are all 29-30, so need replacing in the next year or so, similar with Midfield, we have the likes of Henderson, Tiago in their early 30's, we need to bring in long term replacement for them to bring in their quality will cost big ££££ unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but not we have more competition from the likes of Leicester buying up & coming players.

VvD, Fab & Allisson were all bought off the back of selling Coutinho for a hugely overpriced fee, we may have got one without selling him, but not all 3. The concern now is there are not the crazy super clubs like Barca & RM paying the huge fee's for the likes of Coutinho as the market has plummeted and they are in big debt. Liverpool's model was to sell high and bring in cheaper replacements and develop them into world class players, like we did with Mane & Salah, but this is harden now as our rivals are doing similar.

I think the big concern is that our rivals like Chelsea, Man Utd & Man City are making big long term investments, buying the best World Class players like Sancho, Havertz, Grealish etc, which in the long term I think will leave us behind as we will struggle to find the equivalent at a cheap price, which we have to spend based on our balancing the books model, where as our rivals do not due to their ownership funding them (apart from Utd who have a unique brand that just generates £££ even when they are crap!!!).

So overall I think FSG have been good owners, if you would have told most LFC fans that we would win the CL & PL and have the best manager on the planet when they took over 10 years ago we would not have believed it. But FSG seem over cautious, just winning the PL & CL our profile was higher than ever, lots of leagues like La Liga , Germany & France are struggling, so their players are available at a lower price, look how Utd got Sancho, we could have done that, same with Havertz and Werner, now was the time to invest for the future and strengthen, but we also seem to try and do it on the cheap, relying on Klopp & Edwards to find diamonds for a quarter of the budget of our rivals......



Their strategy is to spend the least to qualify for CL and if we don't win any trophy, I prefer we don't qualify for CL, so that they either change their model or sell and go. We won't go very far with them, we are already huffing and puffing with our ageing squad


Edited by EnergisedReds (12/09/21 03:24 PM)

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#638677 - 12/09/21 06:10 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: EnergisedReds]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 27367
Loc: Not the EU
Liverpool were not close to administration under Gillette and hicks how many times do we have to hear that nonsense ? Gillette and hicks could not refinance the loan not the same as the club being insolvent and because gillet and hicks were over a barrel financing FSG got the club on the cheap. And they have continued that trend
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#638678 - 12/09/21 06:23 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: Stanley Park]
ecnirp98 Online   content
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 5904
Loc: Madchester
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Liverpool were not close to administration under Gillette and hicks how many times do we have to hear that nonsense ? Gillette and hicks could not refinance the loan not the same as the club being insolvent and because gillet and hicks were over a barrel financing FSG got the club on the cheap. And they have continued that trend


The Liverpool MD said we were 1 day off administration

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/fo...tration-3344139

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/03/fr...ers-in-new-era/



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#638679 - 12/09/21 06:41 PM Re: How good are FSG? [Re: BARTON42]
ecnirp98 Online   content
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 5904
Loc: Madchester
Originally Posted By BARTON42
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
On paper you cannot argue with what FSG have delivered in their 10 years, when they took Liverpool FC over we were on the verge of going into administration under Hicks & Gillet, with banks calling on our loans and court battles over ownership, our best players like Alonso & Mascherano had been recently sold off to furnish our debts, with other star players like Torres wanting to leave, we had Hodgson in charge as manager, who could blame them..... since that they have delivered the CL & PL, another CL final, Europa final and played some great football.

FSG have brought in probably the best manager we could have in Klopp, for what he can do on a relatively small budget and for how he works and links with the club/fans, it is a unique relationship in the modern era.

FSG bought us relatively cheap as a distressed club on the verge of banks calling in loans, they have improved our commercial business, based on our global name, which has hugely increase our revenue and has meant we are pretty much self sufficient as a club, they are not sugar daddys who fund the club, they do not take any money out, they will get a hug pay off when they sell the club, as we are valued around 10 times what they paid for us.

The problem is we have an ageing team, key our front like are all 29-30, so need replacing in the next year or so, similar with Midfield, we have the likes of Henderson, Tiago in their early 30's, we need to bring in long term replacement for them to bring in their quality will cost big ££££ unless we are very lucky in the transfer market but not we have more competition from the likes of Leicester buying up & coming players.

VvD, Fab & Allisson were all bought off the back of selling Coutinho for a hugely overpriced fee, we may have got one without selling him, but not all 3. The concern now is there are not the crazy super clubs like Barca & RM paying the huge fee's for the likes of Coutinho as the market has plummeted and they are in big debt. Liverpool's model was to sell high and bring in cheaper replacements and develop them into world class players, like we did with Mane & Salah, but this is harden now as our rivals are doing similar.

I think the big concern is that our rivals like Chelsea, Man Utd & Man City are making big long term investments, buying the best World Class players like Sancho, Havertz, Grealish etc, which in the long term I think will leave us behind as we will struggle to find the equivalent at a cheap price, which we have to spend based on our balancing the books model, where as our rivals do not due to their ownership funding them (apart from Utd who have a unique brand that just generates £££ even when they are crap!!!).

So overall I think FSG have been good owners, if you would have told most LFC fans that we would win the CL & PL and have the best manager on the planet when they took over 10 years ago we would not have believed it. But FSG seem over cautious, just winning the PL & CL our profile was higher than ever, lots of leagues like La Liga , Germany & France are struggling, so their players are available at a lower price, look how Utd got Sancho, we could have done that, same with Havertz and Werner, now was the time to invest for the future and strengthen, but we also seem to try and do it on the cheap, relying on Klopp & Edwards to find diamonds for a quarter of the budget of our rivals......



Thanks for the great post. One question; You say Man Utd have a unique brand but I donít thick LFC is far behind them in that regard. Is it not just a case of our commercial operation catching up with Man Utd for us to have the same spending power?

Currently Man Utd monitise their brand better than us but we can catch up.


Man Utd monetarise their brand better than us, they have not won a major trophy in about 8 years and they still have the largest income in the PL, their major success happened in the early 90's, when the PL and SKY TV happened, they were the top team in the UK for nearly 20 years, so that branding was all over the world, making them one of the most supported teams in the world, they had the biggest stadia (as they expanded), so even when Gate receipts were the major income, they earned more from that than any other club, add onto that regular CL qualification, which became a cash cow when we often missed out.

FSG have hugely improved our commercial revenue and we have closed the gap significantly, but we are still behind them with all the success we have had in the last 5 years, this is also with the Glazers taking money out of the club regularly (which FSG do not do).

It is also unfortunate that we became PL champions in the year of Covid, so allot of the commercial leverage/income that would been brought in has been lessened compared to a normal year, unfortunate timing, like when we were dominant in the 70's & 80's, when success on the field did not really reflect as much on the bank balance/income of the club, compared to the 90's and since.

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