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#637895 - 30/04/21 08:17 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: jim_beam]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22139
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.

I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


I am not even talking about City and Chelsea type owners, but I cannot accept that 7 clubs have owners who have invested more than FSG, especially when we needed to buy a top CB because of our injuries and we ended up buying a guy for 2m from the championship who doesn't even make the bench, it's a joke. FSG will get what they deserve when we don't qualify for CL.

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#637917 - 04/05/21 02:14 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: EnergisedReds]
jim_beam Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 26/01/17
Posts: 163
Loc: North Wales
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.

I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


I am not even talking about City and Chelsea type owners, but I cannot accept that 7 clubs have owners who have invested more than FSG, especially when we needed to buy a top CB because of our injuries and we ended up buying a guy for 2m from the championship who doesn't even make the bench, it's a joke. FSG will get what they deserve when we don't qualify for CL.


Obviously going round in circles with this but fair enough if you can't accept that the owners have not invested as much as you would like then that is your opinion and that is fine. My opinion is I couldn't care less what the investment figure is but when I see we have a top class team who won 4 trophies (2 majors) in the last couple of years as a fan I'm happy.

Again yes fair enough with the defensive issue, it was obvious and I wouldn't have argued against bringing a top guy in to secure top 4 but why would FSG not invest to get into the top 4 on purpose if it hurts them in the long run? The other argument is how do you get a top class CB for 80 odd mil to sign for half a season and then tell him he is back of the queue when next seasson starts?

I don't know, this is where we are speculating that we know what Klopps plans are, are VVD and Gomez his main guys for next season, does he think Kabak and Phillips are good back up for the odd week they might be injured? Did he want a top class new CB the play alongside VVD and gomes was going to be 3rd choice? We don't know or at least I don't know.

This might be the type of stuff we only hear about after Klopp has left and he writes a book spilling the beans about what goes on behind the scenes.

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#637920 - 04/05/21 08:42 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: jim_beam]
Pickles Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 23/12/15
Posts: 5179
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.


I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


The history books have no room for personal sentiment or inclination, they record who won.

If there is no regulation on doping then if you can't beat'em, join'em, however it's a fact FSG won't be doing that. If other teams are being selfish t.wats and winning trophies regularly, then we need to be selfish t.wats too.

Top

#637921 - 04/05/21 10:56 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: Pickles]
jim_beam Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 26/01/17
Posts: 163
Loc: North Wales
Originally Posted By Pickles
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.


I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


The history books have no room for personal sentiment or inclination, they record who won.

If there is no regulation on doping then if you can't beat'em, join'em, however it's a fact FSG won't be doing that. If other teams are being selfish t.wats and winning trophies regularly, then we need to be selfish t.wats too.






That's a very good point.

If there is no real framework for controlling how much clubs spend then yeah I guess it's all fair game then isn't it?

I still wouldn't want to see football just go down this crazy wild west route but it is where we are at now and nobody is doing a thing about it.

Again just a personal note but I feel as a fan I can take more joy from 1 league win than many of city's titles combined. The way we did it genuienly makes me feel happy. Same with Liecester I feel that the 1 they won for themselves was such a staggering acheivement I will always put it ahead of any City title. However I do completely get your point... if other people are doing it and it's allowed then why shouldn't we try and level the field.

Top

#637922 - 05/05/21 03:10 AM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: jim_beam]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22139
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Originally Posted By Pickles
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.


I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


The history books have no room for personal sentiment or inclination, they record who won.

If there is no regulation on doping then if you can't beat'em, join'em, however it's a fact FSG won't be doing that. If other teams are being selfish t.wats and winning trophies regularly, then we need to be selfish t.wats too.






That's a very good point.

If there is no real framework for controlling how much clubs spend then yeah I guess it's all fair game then isn't it?

I still wouldn't want to see football just go down this crazy wild west route but it is where we are at now and nobody is doing a thing about it.

Again just a personal note but I feel as a fan I can take more joy from 1 league win than many of city's titles combined. The way we did it genuienly makes me feel happy. Same with Liecester I feel that the 1 they won for themselves was such a staggering acheivement I will always put it ahead of any City title. However I do completely get your point... if other people are doing it and it's allowed then why shouldn't we try and level the field.


I wonder if City fans are happier today than when they were a 'poor' mid table team, sometimes even battling relegation.

Again, I was not comparing with City owners which FSG can never be, but at least buy a good Centre Back when all our first teamers are injured long term. They decided not to spend, but now they need to face the consequences of missing on at least 30m by not qualifying for CL.

As for being back of the queue, we should have signed a player who is better than Matip and Gomez because these 2 will not play whoke seasons anyway as per their injury history


Edited by EnergisedReds (05/05/21 03:13 AM)

Top

#637923 - 05/05/21 12:23 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: EnergisedReds]
jim_beam Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 26/01/17
Posts: 163
Loc: North Wales
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Originally Posted By Pickles
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Yeah you both are making some good points.

We have had barron years under FSG but again I think that's why FSG and Klopp worked well because it's about building towards something.

I personally would have put up with a few years of development to get to where we are now, breaking that premier league duck was a massive ask. For me winnig the League and champions league will always be more then 4 Europa Leagues or multiple FA cups etc.

Under rodgers we were competative in the league at times and had finals but I think thats just the class difference between Rodgers and Klopp where the latter has more experience and is a proven winner. I'm sure Rodgers will have some success over his career.

I'm hoping now that we have put the foundations in place over the last few years that FSG and Klopp can keep on the ball and keep re-developing the team and keep us up there, that remains to be seen and for me depends on how next year goes. If it's bad from Klopp or FSG they are going to have problems, if we are back on track next season then fair enough.

You have to remember as well we are trying to compete against clubs who are basically money doping their teams over the last 15 years, not so easy to just go out and win stuff anymore when City have basically won everything in the past 10 years.

This is just my personal opinion but I would rather do it how we are now more on sporting merit rather than just a club that has unlimited funds, I love the way Pep and City play football but it leaves a sour taste when they just have an embarrasment of riches available to them every single season.


I guess that is where we are differing on our opinions of the owners is I think they have done well with what they have whereas I guess you are wanting a different type of ownership if thats fair to say? So who is buying Liverpool from FSG to start pumping unlimited funds into the club? I don't know the answer to that and I've never heard of any takeover attempts? If a rich Saudi came along and offered the cash to FSG to buy and then told the fans he has a blank cheque ready then that's the time to have that conversation but right now I don't think thats happening?


The history books have no room for personal sentiment or inclination, they record who won.

If there is no regulation on doping then if you can't beat'em, join'em, however it's a fact FSG won't be doing that. If other teams are being selfish t.wats and winning trophies regularly, then we need to be selfish t.wats too.






That's a very good point.

If there is no real framework for controlling how much clubs spend then yeah I guess it's all fair game then isn't it?

I still wouldn't want to see football just go down this crazy wild west route but it is where we are at now and nobody is doing a thing about it.

Again just a personal note but I feel as a fan I can take more joy from 1 league win than many of city's titles combined. The way we did it genuienly makes me feel happy. Same with Liecester I feel that the 1 they won for themselves was such a staggering acheivement I will always put it ahead of any City title. However I do completely get your point... if other people are doing it and it's allowed then why shouldn't we try and level the field.


I wonder if City fans are happier today than when they were a 'poor' mid table team, sometimes even battling relegation.

Again, I was not comparing with City owners which FSG can never be, but at least buy a good Centre Back when all our first teamers are injured long term. They decided not to spend, but now they need to face the consequences of missing on at least 30m by not qualifying for CL.

As for being back of the queue, we should have signed a player who is better than Matip and Gomez because these 2 will not play whoke seasons anyway as per their injury history


I think city fans are exstatic and so they should be.

Look I think they have done amazing work and Pep is one of the best managers ever, they play amazing football which isn't all down to the money but trying to speak as a neutral football fan I will never find their achievements that special. Porto winning the champions league amazing, Wigan beating city in the FA cup, us winning a champions league 2005 with a dog sh!t squad, Leicester winning the league, all of these things to me are what make football special as a fan. I just don't take that much joy from a team with 2 first 11's winning stuff which the ought to be winning. but like I said they won't care and so they shouldn't.

Agree with the defenders point, I'd say if it was down to FSG not wanting to spend money then they have shot themselves in the foot, but again maybe Klopp wasn't so keen? I personally don't know.

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#637924 - 05/05/21 12:59 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: jim_beam]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22139
Originally Posted By jim_beam


I think city fans are exstatic and so they should be.

Look I think they have done amazing work and Pep is one of the best managers ever, they play amazing football which isn't all down to the money but trying to speak as a neutral football fan I will never find their achievements that special. Porto winning the champions league amazing, Wigan beating city in the FA cup, us winning a champions league 2005 with a dog sh!t squad, Leicester winning the league, all of these things to me are what make football special as a fan. I just don't take that much joy from a team with 2 first 11's winning stuff which the ought to be winning. but like I said they won't care and so they shouldn't.

Agree with the defenders point, I'd say if it was down to FSG not wanting to spend money then they have shot themselves in the foot, but again maybe Klopp wasn't so keen? I personally don't know.



Difficult for me to think that Klopp was not so keen to bring a top central defender after the injuries of his first teamers, cannot believe he can be that stupid. But if he is, then he is to be blamed for our debacle and take full responsibility. But then I cannot explain why we brought 2 CD in, one on loan and the other still invisible


Edited by EnergisedReds (05/05/21 01:00 PM)

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#637927 - 05/05/21 07:08 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: EnergisedReds]
ecnirp98 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 5778
Loc: Madchester
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By jim_beam


I think city fans are exstatic and so they should be.

Look I think they have done amazing work and Pep is one of the best managers ever, they play amazing football which isn't all down to the money but trying to speak as a neutral football fan I will never find their achievements that special. Porto winning the champions league amazing, Wigan beating city in the FA cup, us winning a champions league 2005 with a dog sh!t squad, Leicester winning the league, all of these things to me are what make football special as a fan. I just don't take that much joy from a team with 2 first 11's winning stuff which the ought to be winning. but like I said they won't care and so they shouldn't.

Agree with the defenders point, I'd say if it was down to FSG not wanting to spend money then they have shot themselves in the foot, but again maybe Klopp wasn't so keen? I personally don't know.



Difficult for me to think that Klopp was not so keen to bring a top central defender after the injuries of his first teamers, cannot believe he can be that stupid. But if he is, then he is to be blamed for our debacle and take full responsibility. But then I cannot explain why we brought 2 CD in, one on loan and the other still invisible


They were cheap, a loan fee with an option to buy at a decent price for Kabak and Davies who I expect we will just flip in the summer to make some money as he was near the end of his contract when we got him cheap, probably spent less than £5 million on them 2.

Top

#637928 - 06/05/21 03:11 AM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: ecnirp98]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 22139
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By jim_beam


I think city fans are exstatic and so they should be.

Look I think they have done amazing work and Pep is one of the best managers ever, they play amazing football which isn't all down to the money but trying to speak as a neutral football fan I will never find their achievements that special. Porto winning the champions league amazing, Wigan beating city in the FA cup, us winning a champions league 2005 with a dog sh!t squad, Leicester winning the league, all of these things to me are what make football special as a fan. I just don't take that much joy from a team with 2 first 11's winning stuff which the ought to be winning. but like I said they won't care and so they shouldn't.

Agree with the defenders point, I'd say if it was down to FSG not wanting to spend money then they have shot themselves in the foot, but again maybe Klopp wasn't so keen? I personally don't know.



Difficult for me to think that Klopp was not so keen to bring a top central defender after the injuries of his first teamers, cannot believe he can be that stupid. But if he is, then he is to be blamed for our debacle and take full responsibility. But then I cannot explain why we brought 2 CD in, one on loan and the other still invisible


They were cheap, a loan fee with an option to buy at a decent price for Kabak and Davies who I expect we will just flip in the summer to make some money as he was near the end of his contract when we got him cheap, probably spent less than £5 million on them 2.


Exactly, they were cheap and FSG probably thought that we will at least make top 4 even if the defence is not taken proper care of as we were top at Christmas. Now it looks like they'll get what they deserve.

Top

#637932 - 06/05/21 12:43 PM Re: How good are our owners? [Re: EnergisedReds]
ecnirp98 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 5778
Loc: Madchester
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By jim_beam


I think city fans are exstatic and so they should be.

Look I think they have done amazing work and Pep is one of the best managers ever, they play amazing football which isn't all down to the money but trying to speak as a neutral football fan I will never find their achievements that special. Porto winning the champions league amazing, Wigan beating city in the FA cup, us winning a champions league 2005 with a dog sh!t squad, Leicester winning the league, all of these things to me are what make football special as a fan. I just don't take that much joy from a team with 2 first 11's winning stuff which the ought to be winning. but like I said they won't care and so they shouldn't.

Agree with the defenders point, I'd say if it was down to FSG not wanting to spend money then they have shot themselves in the foot, but again maybe Klopp wasn't so keen? I personally don't know.



Difficult for me to think that Klopp was not so keen to bring a top central defender after the injuries of his first teamers, cannot believe he can be that stupid. But if he is, then he is to be blamed for our debacle and take full responsibility. But then I cannot explain why we brought 2 CD in, one on loan and the other still invisible


They were cheap, a loan fee with an option to buy at a decent price for Kabak and Davies who I expect we will just flip in the summer to make some money as he was near the end of his contract when we got him cheap, probably spent less than £5 million on them 2.


Exactly, they were cheap and FSG probably thought that we will at least make top 4 even if the defence is not taken proper care of as we were top at Christmas. Now it looks like they'll get what they deserve.


Looks like FSG gambled and it back fired, Kabak brought in at the start of the Transfer window may have made the difference with the games we had in New Year. It would be interesting to know Klopp's thought's/attitude on it all and what he wanted, he has often said he does not want a huge squad as he wants to work with players who play, so maybe he was happy with what he had, but with 3 first choice CB out for the season, he must have realised we needed re-enforcements to get 4th.

One thing that struck me with all these injuries, is we used so few of the squad players when first team players look shattered, players like Origi, Shaq, Davies, Kostas & Keita have hardly been used, preferring other players like Fab to be played out of position, surely that shows Klopp has no faith in them and they need to be moved on and we need decent squad players who we can rotate in the squad, no point having them on the books if they are not good enough to play regularly for us, we might not get big money for them, but they are best moved on now.

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