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#216736 - 24/04/12 07:12 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Carheex]
Bar Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7552
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
I guess it depends on your definition of 'domination'. I tend to see it has possession, however my argument is that many successful teams base their style around counter attacking and quite often have less possession and appear to be dominated. Dominating is pointless and a waste of energy unless you have the ruthelss strikers to finish the job.
What I am trying to say is that dominating a game isn't necessarily a good thing or even a yardstick to show how we are doing.


Yeah, you're correct. I agree, in fact I remember under GH we had practically mastered the art of counter-attacking. We used to do a lot better away from home than at home, because teams would come to Anfield and park the bus, and it was like we didn't know how to break them down without counter attacking.

The West Brom game was similar to a lot of home games against the lower teams this season - they come to Anfield, sit back, we barrage them, and most of the game is played in their half, but our finishing is so bad that we fail to make the breakthrough. In all my life I've never seen worse finishing from a Liverpool team throughout the course of a whole season, yet I've seen much worse teams and much worse football many times.
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#216738 - 24/04/12 07:21 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Bar]
Carheex Offline
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Registered: 23/03/11
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Loc: The World's Cosiest Armchair!
As much as I found Houllier's reign largely unenjoyable, it was good to see Owen breaking forward at pace time after time, after we'd absorbed so much pressure. The arsenal cup final obviously springs to mind as a text book example. It goes to show you can play well without the ball.
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#216739 - 24/04/12 07:23 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Carheex]
Bar Offline
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Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7552
He's playing well without the ball at Man Ure right now!
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#216754 - 24/04/12 07:49 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Bar]
Carheex Offline
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Registered: 23/03/11
Posts: 8163
Loc: The World's Cosiest Armchair!
grin
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#216755 - 24/04/12 07:52 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Carheex]
Stanley Park Online   crying
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 24591
Loc: Not the EU
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
As much as I found Houllier's reign largely unenjoyable, it was good to see Owen breaking forward at pace time after time, after we'd absorbed so much pressure. The arsenal cup final obviously springs to mind as a text book example. It goes to show you can play well without the ball.


Other than right at the end I loved Houiller's reign anyone who signs Sami Hypia is alright by me. Although on wikapedia it says he was spotted by a TV camerman. Well I never. I also enjoyed Rafa's reign again except at the end of days. Happy days where did it all go wrong?
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#216759 - 24/04/12 08:06 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Stanley Park]
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1st Team Squad

Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7552
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Originally Posted By: CarheeX
As much as I found Houllier's reign largely unenjoyable, it was good to see Owen breaking forward at pace time after time, after we'd absorbed so much pressure. The arsenal cup final obviously springs to mind as a text book example. It goes to show you can play well without the ball.


Other than right at the end I loved Houiller's reign anyone who signs Sami Hypia is alright by me. Although on wikapedia it says he was spotted by a TV camerman. Well I never. I also enjoyed Rafa's reign again except at the end of days. Happy days where did it all go wrong?


Both GH & Rafa had one year in their 6 years each where they finished runners up. Both years we finished with points tallies that would quite often win the league. We finished runners up to an outstanding Arsenal team under GH and under Rafa we finished on 86 points to a Man Ure team with 90 points. I'll never know how they won the league that season and we didn't. I think the difference maker was the experience of being in that position and the mental strength to go with it. They got a ridiculous amount of good fortune/bad refereeing decisions going in their favour though. It was downhill all the way for us from that blow. Until Kenny took over and stopped the rot, that is!
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#216763 - 24/04/12 08:10 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Bar]
Stanley Park Online   crying
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 24591
Loc: Not the EU
Bari apologies but as you know I don't think Kenny has stopped the rot far from it. It all seemed to go wrong when Rafa came up with that mad rant about Ferguson and facts. Then he lost the plot and we have never recovered. Both Hodgson and the out of retirement Dalglish should never have been let within a million miles of the Liverpool job.
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#216768 - 24/04/12 08:23 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Stanley Park]
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Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7552
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Bari apologies but as you know I don't think Kenny has stopped the rot far from it. It all seemed to go wrong when Rafa came up with that mad rant about Ferguson and facts. Then he lost the plot and we have never recovered. Both Hodgson and the out of retirement Dalglish should never have been let within a million miles of the Liverpool job.


Ha, I know your feelings on Kenny. I was quite specific about my wording. He has stopped the rot. We haven't gone downhill worse since Roy's reign end and his began. If there was an overall chart on our progress, it was constantly going downhill from Rafa's final season until Kenny took over. He immediately brought us steeply uphill last season, and we've come back downhill this season from the standards which he opened up with with the beginning of his reign in January, but we still haven't sunk to the depths that Roy had us drowning in. We may not have progressed much under Kenny in your opinion, but we certainly aren't worse off than we were when he took over, would you not agree?
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'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?'
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#216773 - 24/04/12 08:29 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Bar]
Stanley Park Online   crying
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 24591
Loc: Not the EU
Its improved from the position Roy had us in yes but thats not saying much is it? A better comparison would be Rafa's time in the sense it was pretty much standard we qualified for the champions league its now a distant aspiration.
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#216778 - 24/04/12 08:38 PM Re: Question - With every mounting LFC embarrassment do you..... [Re: Stanley Park]
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1st Team Squad

Registered: 18/04/11
Posts: 7552
Originally Posted By: Stanley Park
Its improved from the position Roy had us in yes but thats not saying much is it? A better comparison would be Rafa's time in the sense it was pretty much standard we qualified for the champions league its now a distant aspiration.


It may not be saying much, no, but he did stop the rot. Which my point, and my only point. That doesn't come with any proclamations of Kenny being the messiah and that he's brought us to a whole new level that I never knew existed, because it clearly isn't true. You have to see the difference without pigeon-holing people. There's too much 'dividing' going on here between fans.

Rafa did have us qualifying for the CL every season, yes, and I've always been a fan of Rafa (although I did agree that he had to go by the end of his reign) but it's a fair enough comment to point out that he didn't have a Sheik-driving Manchester City to compete with, nor did he have a strong Spurs team to deal with - infact, as soon as Spurs built a decent team, they finished ahead of us (in Rafa's final season). Aside from that, in his first season, Everton finished ahead of us to get 4th spot.
_________________________
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