Brexit and the chequers agreement ?

Posted by: Stanley Park

Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 01:20 PM

Is the chequers agreement a fair compromise for the vast majority of people in the middle e.g neither hard brexiteers or hard remainers. In my view the vast majority (however they voted in the referendum) want to respect the vote but go out in a way that minimises disruption (this is not my personal opinion it's simply seems to be where most people are I am a hard brexiteer). And if the EU rejects the deal (given May has moved very far to a soft brexit) then if the EU says no no and no then our government is within its rights to say ok then we walk away from negotiations and leave without a deal ?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 01:50 PM

How do you think a no deal will work out for us Stan?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
How do you think a no deal will work out for us Stan?


I think we would have some short term trouble (the impact of which would be grossly exaggerated) then we would move forward and be better off economically. However how well we do depends on how well we do nothing to do with brexit or not and everything to d with innovation and competiveness screw that up and we are stuffed in any scenario. Which is why Corbyn abbot and macdonald terrify me
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:15 PM

In no scenario will you be better off. Maybe in 200 yrs time you may recover but all your own predictions have you worse off. So well done, destroying yourself for no reason
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
In no scenario will you be better off. Maybe in 200 yrs time you may recover but all your own predictions have you worse off. So well done, destroying yourself for no reason


And may I ask how you know that for certain ? Anyway even if true Ireland will be fine you are in the EU you are safe. Germany will look after you can't see any problems there at all
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:22 PM

your govt leaked all 3 possible outcomes...all are worse than what u have now..2 of them way way worse
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
your govt leaked all 3 possible outcomes...all are worse than what u have now..2 of them way way worse


Show me where
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:37 PM

Surprised this leak slipped under ur radar..


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidschrie...t/#4c3943de4c3f

poorer
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:42 PM

whats even worse is you are actually an enemy of yourself, destroying your own country..there is a reason the KGB man wants trump and wants brexit..he is winning the cold war .. putin is laughing at u and the USA ,he owns the white house and can kill your own citizens in chem attacks and you say nothing.. how many meeting did aaron cross have with the russian ambassador ..11 isn't it? 11 meetings in the run up to brexit..this doesn't concern u..u are so entrenched in I am right to actually think about putin owning ur ass..
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:43 PM

That doesn't mean a thing and that report was discredited with 24 hours of coming out it never even modelled the governments preferred scenario then never mind the chequers agreement. In any even how can anyone predict 8% over a 15 year economic cycle subject to god knows what world events. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see that you think it's a definite in which case invest on that scenario you would make tens of billions on the markets you being able to predict the future. But even if we are economically worse off so what ? It's happening and I would not mind you live in a country that's staying in the EU and given the position your crazy prime minister is taken you won't be having anything to do with the UK in future so what's your problem ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:47 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
whats even worse is you are actually an enemy of yourself, destroying your own country..there is a reason the KGB man wants trump and wants brexit..he is winning the cold war .. putin is laughing at u and the USA ,he owns the white house and can kill your own citizens in chem attacks and you say nothing.. how many meeting did aaron cross have with the russian ambassador ..11 isn't it? 11 meetings in the run up to brexit..this doesn't concern u..u are so entrenched in I am right to actually think about putin owning ur ass..


That's fine putin owns our ass. Ireland is having nothing to do with Britain your prime minister has put us in our place. That's fine Germany can fund and subsidise you from now on. Good luck
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 05:48 PM

our crazy leader is just sticking to the agreement, its your mad lot that are chasing their tails. and why worry...well it effects us believe it or not, whether we are in the eu or not.. crazy right? or absolutely perfectly logical and reality.. U stopped living in reality ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
our crazy leader is just sticking to the agreement, its your mad lot that are chasing their tails. and why worry...well it effects us believe it or not, whether we are in the eu or not.. crazy right? or absolutely perfectly logical and reality.. U stopped living in reality ?


Your thoughtful analysis is that putin owns our ass. Very good how long did it take you to come up with that gem from junior school. Britain has just taken delivery of 5th generation fighters F35 planes that will fly over your head protecting Ireland for free because Ireland can't afford an Air Force. Relations between Britain and Ireland have never been worse because of your prime minister. That has consequences pay for your own air defence or pusade the EU to do it for you. As for passports they should be introduced between mainland Britain and Ireland and future bail outs you can whistle.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:07 PM

yeah everyone can go whistle.. you are the epitome of what is wrong with britian atm. You have gone from a thriving western democracy to having the same growth rate as Putin's russia. Good luck with that
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
yeah everyone can go whistle.. you are the epitome of what is wrong with britian atm. You have gone from a thriving western democracy to having the same growth rate as Putin's russia. Good luck with that


So why do you care ireland is going to move away from Britain and hopefully Germany will bail them out and protect their country. You are part of the EU so your economy will grow massively no doubt with your new trading partner Germany. What could possibly go wrong there? Not my opinion there is much anger in Britain with your prime minister be very careful what you wish for
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:14 PM

there is much anger in britain cause u are nuts. nothing to do with ireland. germany are not our new trading partner, we and u and them having very long eu trading systems that have generally made us all wealthy..u wanna dismantle all that cause of nothing..up to u but yeah it effects us cause of obvious reasons. be angry all u like just get back to us when u agree to what u already agreed
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:28 PM

I was talking the other day to someone from Ulster she said people come over all the time from the republic because prices are much cheaper in the north. Your economy is tiny and vulnerable and you are reliant on Britain for pretty much everything be very careful what you wish for. As for Britain we don't need your advice we vote how we want we don't tell the Irish how to vote. The EU are currently weopnising the Irish border but once brexit is agreed Ireland will be an outpost of the EU. THe EU is taking on more poor countries like Albania and Macedonia that's their priority once you have served your purpose as any EU bargaining chip the EU will cast you into the wilderness. Don't come begging to Britain then you made your bed (or rather your dopey PM did) now lie in it.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
In no scenario will you be better off. Maybe in 200 yrs time you may recover but all your own predictions have you worse off. So well done, destroying yourself for no reason


And you know this how? I suggest itís more what you want to happen. Good thing the British people arenít all as negative as you, remainders and leavers alike.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:41 PM

I actually don't want it to happen at all, cause it will effect us too. it is your own govt impact studies
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 06:42 PM

It's also worth noting the chequers agreement keeps us partially in the EU maybe emp has not realised that having posted a year old report. And if emp can predict the British economy then he and anyone who follows his advice could earn billions. There is of course the small possibility he can't predict the future. So caveat emptor. My gut feel is the EU and the UK will come to an agreement but obviously I don't know
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 07:17 PM

Isn't Mr Mogg Mr Brexit... ehhhh why is he moving his business to ireland..like we will take the business but shouldn't you in the uk treat him like a traitor ...i hear he is also in charge of an emerging economies trust which made billions as a result of breixt..yeah brexit is good for him he can just move to ireland..your people won't be able to

A second investment fund has been set up in Ireland by the City firm co-founded by Jacob Rees-Mogg, after it warned earlier this year about the financial dangers of the sort of hard Brexit favoured by the Conservative MP.

The fund, which is backed by $50m (£38m) in seed money from the Swedish national pension plan, was created to meet demand from international investors, according to Somerset Capital Management (SCM).
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Isn't Mr Mogg Mr Brexit... ehhhh why is he moving his business to ireland..like we will take the business but shouldn't you in the uk treat him like a traitor ...i hear he is also in charge of an emerging economies trust which made billions as a result of breixt..yeah brexit is good for him he can just move to ireland..your people won't be able to

A second investment fund has been set up in Ireland by the City firm co-founded by Jacob Rees-Mogg, after it warned earlier this year about the financial dangers of the sort of hard Brexit favoured by the Conservative MP.

The fund, which is backed by $50m (£38m) in seed money from the Swedish national pension plan, was created to meet demand from international investors, according to Somerset Capital Management (SCM).


It's a private investment fund they can do as they like. Maybe it's an indication of the great future Ireland has with Germany looking after it rather than the U.K.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
I actually don't want it to happen at all, cause it will effect us too. it is your own govt impact studies


Studies from some time ago and we all know studies donít always come true. If we all work together including the eu we will all prosper. Seems like thereís plenty that donít want that and would rather play politics than help make this work.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 07:22 PM

yeah he is smart and a ruthless ..bad news for the uk tho
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/07/18 07:23 PM

only in the uk ..the agreements where already made..we just waiting for u to sort ur house out
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
yeah he is smart and a ruthless ..bad news for the uk tho


Anything that's bad news for the uk is bad news for Ireland given you are almost entirely dependant on the uk we even provide you with an Air Force and probably navy as well. Hopefully Germany will provide a similar prop up service for you
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
yeah he is smart and a ruthless ..bad news for the uk tho


Anything that's bad news for the uk is bad news for Ireland given you are almost entirely dependant on the uk we even provide you with an Air Force and probably navy as well. Hopefully Germany will provide a similar prop up service for you


Why, is anybody invading Ireland? Didn't England invade them in the past, I won't be surprised if they did.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 06:02 PM

rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


You are the one who talked about uk protecting Ireland with its airforce and navy, I asked who was invading them?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


You are the one who talked about uk protecting Ireland with its airforce and navy, I asked who was invading them?


You don't have to be on the verge of being invaded to require a navy and Air Force. The RAF protects Ireland for free and its British taxpayers paying for it.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


If you are walking away from Ireland don't forget to give the 6 counties back.

In a spirit of generosity you could also give Gibraltar back to the Spanish and The Falkland Islands back to Argentina.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


If you are walking away from Ireland don't forget to give the 6 counties back.

In a spirit of generosity you could also give Gibraltar back to the Spanish and The Falkland Islands back to Argentina.



It's not ours to give back the people of all the areas you mention WANT to be part of the United Kingdom or rather the vast majority do. They could be independent at any time. I know you struggle with democracy
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


If you are walking away from Ireland don't forget to give the 6 counties back.

In a spirit of generosity you could also give Gibraltar back to the Spanish and The Falkland Islands back to Argentina.



It's not ours to give back the people of all the areas you mention WANT to be part of the United Kingdom or rather the vast majority do. They could be independent at any time. I know you struggle with democracy


I struggle with the British definition of democracy.

Invade a country that doesn't belong to you and then drive the native population from their own land.

Next step is to populate it with those who are loyal to the crown.

Now call a "democratic" election and proclaim that the people living there wish to remain British.

Finally proclaim that you are only respecting the "democratic" vote.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 09:17 PM

And what's the Irish republican definition of democracy ? Deport or kill every person by force who's family was not born there 400 years ago or who has the wrong religion ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And what's the Irish republican definition of democracy ? Deport or kill every person by force who's family was not born there 400 years ago or who has the wrong religion ?


The Republic of Ireland is a sovereign nation. I'm reasonably certain that is not their definition of democracy.

Also isn't it strange that people living on an island nearly 8000 miles from Britain all want to be British. However did that happen or is that the magical power of democracy again?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
rather than invade ireland britain will be walking away from them. Germany is their new partner


You are the one who talked about uk protecting Ireland with its airforce and navy, I asked who was invading them?


You don't have to be on the verge of being invaded to require a navy and Air Force. The RAF protects Ireland for free and its British taxpayers paying for it.


Protecting us from whom? The last nation to invade Ireland was guess who?

So are Britan protecting us from Britain invading us? That's handy because if you are planning a surprise attack you will know all about it in advance and you can then protect us.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 09:33 PM

Also Stan it is interesting to note your shift from Brexiteer to a supporter of Brexit in name only.

The Chequers Agreement is a complete sell out of what Brexit was meant to deliver. However it is refreshing to see that you are now accepting the reality of the situation.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 09:45 PM

Shaggy out of interest what would you propose with the Falkland Islands ? Forcably deport them all and relocate Argentinians there ? As for brexit I reluctantly accept the chequers agreement because otherwise it would not have got past parliament. There are now only two options a deal or WTO. To stop that now MP,s have to motion and pass another act of parliment which effectively would stop brexit. I really can't see that happening. In all the arguments on here about brexit I have been consistent red lines laws trade and money everything else is negotiable. I want to leave the EU but I don't want to have nothing to do with it I want close trade ties. I do accept the chequers agreement just about achieves that but I would not be happy if May conceded more
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy out of interest what would you propose with the Falkland Islands ? Forcably deport them all and relocate Argentinians there ? As for brexit I reluctantly accept the chequers agreement because otherwise it would not have got past parliament. There are now only two options a deal or WTO. To stop that now MP,s have to motion and pass another act of parliment which effectively would stop brexit. I really can't see that happening. In all the arguments on here about brexit I have been consistent red lines laws trade and money everything else is negotiable. I want to leave the EU but I don't want to have nothing to do with it I want close trade ties. I do accept the chequers agreement just about achieves that but I would not be happy if May conceded more


I'm not sure why you are obsessed with forcibly deporting people from their homes. That is what caused this situation in the first place.

Britain returned Hong Kong to China and there were no mass deportations there. Why would there have to be mass deportations if you returned the Falkland Islands to Argentina.

You original red lines if I remember on Brexit were leaving the Single Market, Customs Union and ECJ.

The Chequers Agreement is Brexit in name only but it is once again a form of cherry picking and it offers no workable solution to the Irish border problem.

Brexit has turned into the British Governments worst nightmare. As for the opposition parties they are only glad that is not them that have been charged with trying to deliver it.

I doubt if anyone, whether remainder or leaver could have envisaged the mayhem that the referendum result has unleashed.

Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 10:18 PM

Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/07/18 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem


I think I will save myself the price of a stamp Stan.

I cannot understand how anyone can be happy with a No Deal Brexit.

Again the problem is that the government's position on Brexit is moving on an almost daily basis. May is trying to keep remainers and leavers within her own party happy whilst also dancing to the DUP's tune. That is an impossible task.

David Cameron has a lot to answer for, but of course he couldn't get out quick enough.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 03:43 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem


Therefore you want the EU to just accept May's PROPOSAL in Toto, right, no negotiations, take it or leave it?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem


Therefore you want the EU to just accept May's PROPOSAL in Toto, right, no negotiations, take it or leave it?


Yes and that is the uk governments position as well. Obviously there can be some minor amendments but nothing that changes the shape otherwise may is toast politically. The EU know what. How it will end not sure my gut feel tells me there will be a deal because (dispite all the hot air) the two sides are still negotiating and the EU has not dismissed it out of hand. But the prospect of no deal is equally likely
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem


Therefore you want the EU to just accept May's PROPOSAL in Toto, right, no negotiations, take it or leave it?


To be fair, the EU would like us to just accept what they want too.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 11:55 AM

I think the other point is they are running out of time there is simply not time to ponder a number of options. I think mays strategy was to move to the EU,s position as far as possible. To give them something to accept or not. If the EU stonewall then she can go for no deal and assert we did everything we could to the British public and parliament. One thing about May she is politically very savvy the chequers agreement has not been thrown together there will be deep thinking behind it. Whether it will work who knows ?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ok shaggy suggest you write to the British government and get them to hand over the Falklands to Argentina can't see any issues there. Yes I said single market customs union and ECJ we are leaving all three, just ! Do I like the chequers agreement no I don't but I am prepared to be flexiable and I can live with it just. But not any further concessions which there might be. However no deal is looking likely and I would be happy with that there will be short term troubles but change always has challenges. Brexit is actually on track the mayhem is caused by British politicians trying to sabotage brexit which has been happening since we voted out. Incidently I see no way politically brexit can be reversed if the establishment does then we will see real mayhem


Therefore you want the EU to just accept May's PROPOSAL in Toto, right, no negotiations, take it or leave it?


To be fair, the EU would like us to just accept what they want too.


I think the EU has proposed a few options which already exist with a few twist, ie, Norway or Canada or Turkey options which took a long time to set.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 03:59 PM

Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 04:49 PM

I see today May is taking over direct control of the negotiations. Dominic Rab is her deputy now on Brexit. My take of this is May is going over the head of Barnier and the EU commission and talking direct to EU leaders. The night before May presented her chequers proposal she met with Merkel in Germany it was denied May gave Merkel a "heads up" but frankly I find that impossible to believe. I welcome this there has been too much posturing and mucking about let the organ grinders sort it out not the monkeys.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.


No the EU would prefer UK stayed in the common market if not the EU itself. UK wants something completely different which nobody has
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.


No the EU would prefer UK stayed in the common market if not the EU itself. UK wants something completely different which nobody has


Given the EU has made no proposals of their own to shape brexit out of curiosity how do you know what they want ?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.


No the EU would prefer UK stayed in the common market if not the EU itself. UK wants something completely different which nobody has


Given the EU has made no proposals of their own to shape brexit out of curiosity how do you know what they want ?


Barnier said that several existing options were proposed to the uk, even May said that the proposal bu EU were not good enough, are you following what's going on?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.


No the EU would prefer UK stayed in the common market if not the EU itself. UK wants something completely different which nobody has


Yes I know we want different things but the point I was making is that we both want what we want and just want the other side to accept it. This was in relation to you saying that weíre not budging in what we want but neither are the eu.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 07:11 PM

No I am not following what's going on Vish obviously you are directly in touch with Michael barnier but I hope you are right if the EU offer us same as EEC we should snatch their hands off. We did have that situation for many years it started to go wrong with political union you don't need to have political union to have a common market. Keep us informed when Michael imparts more secret information to you
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Exactly my point. This is what the EU want and would prefer we just accept just as we are doing to them with our proposals.


No the EU would prefer UK stayed in the common market if not the EU itself. UK wants something completely different which nobody has


Given the EU has made no proposals of their own to shape brexit out of curiosity how do you know what they want ?


The EU isn't leaving and their position has been clear from the outset.

Britain can't agree on a set of proposals, even the Chequers Agreement (that's a laugh) has already been compromised by JRM and the far right loonies on the back benches.

It is exceptionally difficult to negotiate when one side doesn't even know what they want.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 08:34 PM

Whatever is agreed or not agreed if it is to Britains advantage in any way you can be sure an Irish republican will be against it. All I see is wanting Britain to fail because if what went on 400 years ago. Still in this great world it takes all sorts let's lose no sleep over that. I will stick by what I said right at the beginning there will be an agreement with the EU but at the back end we still have much posturing to do. That's simply what my gut feel says I don't know. My personal wish is we get no deal but I don't think it will get that far at the end of the day
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Whatever is agreed or not agreed if it is to Britains advantage in any way you can be sure an Irish republican will be against it. All I see is wanting Britain to fail because if what went on 400 years ago. Still in this great world it takes all sorts let's lose no sleep over that. I will stick by what I said right at the beginning there will be an agreement with the EU but at the back end we still have much posturing to do. That's simply what my gut feel says I don't know. My personal wish is we get no deal but I don't think it will get that far at the end of the day


An anti Irish rant that didn't address any of the points I raised.

But brexiteers don't have any answers, just sound bites and attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with them.

I see that the Brexit Department will no longer be responsible for negotiating Brexit. You couldn't make this stuff up.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coup-clai...ficial-11447619
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:18 PM

Oh and exit day won't be exit day.

Put the buntings back in the attic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...461581.html?amp
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:29 PM

If an anti Irish rant is pointing out small mindedness always hoping for bad things for Britain then so be it. Personally I find it boorish if you have a valid point to make about brexit let's hear it rather than relegating it to the brexiteers do x or y the brexiteers are bad people that's childish. There is no such thing as a brexiteer the British people had a vote and rightly or wrongly they voted to leave the EU. The British government are trying their best to get the best deal not just for Britain but the EU as well. And certainly if Britain tanks after leaving the EU the country that will suffer worst is Ireland which relys on trade with the British mainland especially Ulster where its main trading partner by a country mile is mainland Britain. I simply can't understand why someone can have so much hatred for something so pointless forget William if orange or whoever you are so worked about and try living in the real world
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If an anti Irish rant is pointing out small mindedness always hoping for bad things for Britain then so be it. Personally I find it boorish if you have a valid point to make about brexit let's hear it rather than relegating it to the brexiteers do x or y the brexiteers are bad people that's childish. There is no such thing as a brexiteer the British people had a vote and rightly or wrongly they voted to leave the EU. The British government are trying their best to get the best deal not just for Britain but the EU as well. And certainly if Britain tanks after leaving the EU the country that will suffer worst is Ireland which relys on trade with the British mainland especially Ulster where its main trading partner by a country mile is mainland Britain. I simply can't understand why someone can have so much hatred for something so pointless forget William if orange or whoever you are so worked about and try living in the real world


The only person bringing up ancient Irish history is you Stan.

Why would I want Brexit to fail, it would be the equivalent of self harming.

However it has descended into farce and today's announcements only add to the pantomime.

It was your own media thst coined the phrase brexiteer so if you don't like it I suggest you write to them.

Finally, do you have any opinion on today's developments or are you going to continue to lecture us on ancient Irish history.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Oh and exit day won't be exit day.

Put the buntings back in the attic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...461581.html?amp


And here's an example of what I am talking about no opinions of your own no orginal thoughts, no personal judgement or interpretation simply googling for bad news for brexit pasting it and putting his tongue out. Childish and boorish. As I say if you have thoughts of your own shaggy based on your judgement then let's hear them I would be very interested
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:47 PM

In terms if today's developments the prime minister taking direct control is a good thing and shows we are reaching the nub of the negotiation which I expect to be leader vs leader and barnier sidelined. As for the article in the independent (a very pro remain newspaper) I don't understand it's implications it says the 1972 act won't be fully repealed what does that mean? If it's a technicality to align some aspects of the statute book with the transition then it may make sense. Or it might be sinister I have not read the detail have you read the detail shaggy ? Please enlighten us. You also have to consider article 50 which means we leave the EU In march unless all other 27 member states agree how does that work? Shaggy any ideas ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Oh and exit day won't be exit day.

Put the buntings back in the attic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...461581.html?amp


And here's an example of what I am talking about no opinions of your own no orginal thoughts, no personal judgement or interpretation simply googling for bad news for brexit pasting it and putting his tongue out. Childish and boorish. As I say if you have thoughts of your own shaggy based on your judgement then let's hear them I would be very interested


Do you have anything to say about today's developments,.

Are you happy that the Brexit Department has now been entirely frozen out of the Brexit negotiations?

Are you happy with the UK remaining under EU laws for another 21 months?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 10:11 PM

Shaggy newspapers don't print the truth or facts they print what they think will sell the newspaper. The independent is a left wing remain newspaper so anything they can turn to be anti brexit they will highlight. Right wing newspapers do the same in reverse. So when anyone sends a link from a newspaper purporting it to be factual and conclusive proof is...I won't insult. I am not always right but always I give my opinions based on my judgement that's why you rarely see me posting newspaper links. I don't like the way the government is heading with negotiations but I can understand why given the internal politics which is the main problem. My understanding for some time has been there will be a transition period and some EU we will have to obey. So not sure whether this is a new development or the independent creating a story. Presumably shaggy you know you tell me ? My concern is by march 2019 we legally leave the EU or are we still a member ? That's what I need to find out do you know shaggy ? Unless you can come up with your own thoughts I am getting bored of the insults by newspaper links
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy newspapers don't print the truth or facts they print what they think will sell the newspaper. The independent is a left wing remain newspaper so anything they can turn to be anti brexit they will highlight. Right wing newspapers do the same in reverse. So when anyone sends a link from a newspaper purporting it to be factual and conclusive proof is...I won't insult. I am not always right but always I give my opinions based on my judgement that's why you rarely see me posting newspaper links. I don't like the way the government is heading with negotiations but I can understand why given the internal politics which is the main problem. My understanding for some time has been there will be a transition period and some EU we will have to obey. So not sure whether this is a new development or the independent creating a story. Presumably shaggy you know you tell me ? My concern is by march 2019 we legally leave the EU or are we still a member ? That's what I need to find out do you know shaggy ? Unless you can come up with your own thoughts I am getting bored of the insults by newspaper links


So it's all fake news then Stan when you don't like what you read.

Also anyone who gives you their opinion is dismissed for giving views that are only "their" opinion.

So damned if we do, damned if we don't. You can believe the article or you can choose not to, we will all know soon enough.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/07/18 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
In terms if today's developments the prime minister taking direct control is a good thing and shows we are reaching the nub of the negotiation which I expect to be leader vs leader and barnier sidelined. As for the article in the independent (a very pro remain newspaper) I don't understand it's implications it says the 1972 act won't be fully repealed what does that mean? If it's a technicality to align some aspects of the statute book with the transition then it may make sense. Or it might be sinister I have not read the detail have you read the detail shaggy ? Please enlighten us. You also have to consider article 50 which means we leave the EU In march unless all other 27 member states agree how does that work? Shaggy any ideas ?


Divide and conquer isn't going to work with the EU.

May will need to make further concessions and come up with a solution to the Irish border issue if she is to secure a deal with the EU.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 03:58 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
In terms if today's developments the prime minister taking direct control is a good thing and shows we are reaching the nub of the negotiation which I expect to be leader vs leader and barnier sidelined. As for the article in the independent (a very pro remain newspaper) I don't understand it's implications it says the 1972 act won't be fully repealed what does that mean? If it's a technicality to align some aspects of the statute book with the transition then it may make sense. Or it might be sinister I have not read the detail have you read the detail shaggy ? Please enlighten us. You also have to consider article 50 which means we leave the EU In march unless all other 27 member states agree how does that work? Shaggy any ideas ?


Barnier will not be sidelined and there are 27 leaders on the other side who need convincing, it has to be unanimously approved. Merkel and Macron are the main ones for sure but every member vote counts. So anybody feeling UK will have an unfair advantage will not approve the deal. Thus I think it will have to be very close to an existing arrangement.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy newspapers don't print the truth or facts they print what they think will sell the newspaper. The independent is a left wing remain newspaper so anything they can turn to be anti brexit they will highlight. Right wing newspapers do the same in reverse. So when anyone sends a link from a newspaper purporting it to be factual and conclusive proof is...I won't insult. I am not always right but always I give my opinions based on my judgement that's why you rarely see me posting newspaper links. I don't like the way the government is heading with negotiations but I can understand why given the internal politics which is the main problem. My understanding for some time has been there will be a transition period and some EU we will have to obey. So not sure whether this is a new development or the independent creating a story. Presumably shaggy you know you tell me ? My concern is by march 2019 we legally leave the EU or are we still a member ? That's what I need to find out do you know shaggy ? Unless you can come up with your own thoughts I am getting bored of the insults by newspaper links


So it's all fake news then Stan when you don't like what you read.

Also anyone who gives you their opinion is dismissed for giving views that are only "their" opinion.

So damned if we do, damned if we don't. You can believe the article or you can choose not to, we will all know soon enough.


My point which is pretty conclusive by now you have no judgements or opinions of your own links from the guardian or independent are your limit. Newspapers don't print the truth they print opinions from journalists doing their job.....which is....to sell newspapers. The key point for me is do we leave the EU as members next march or don't we? The fact we still have to obey some EU laws is pretty self evident as we are in a transition deal it's just a technicality but it makes a great headline. If I have misinterpreted it and we are remaining as an EU member then for me it's a massive problem. I asked you for clarification as expected none came your limit (as I know now) is posting links from the independent it guardian (pro remain newspapers) I don't even think you read the articles just the headline. I think you are a lovely feller shaggy I really wish you would give your own opinion and move on from this English hating silo you live in which can't be good for your well being
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
In terms if today's developments the prime minister taking direct control is a good thing and shows we are reaching the nub of the negotiation which I expect to be leader vs leader and barnier sidelined. As for the article in the independent (a very pro remain newspaper) I don't understand it's implications it says the 1972 act won't be fully repealed what does that mean? If it's a technicality to align some aspects of the statute book with the transition then it may make sense. Or it might be sinister I have not read the detail have you read the detail shaggy ? Please enlighten us. You also have to consider article 50 which means we leave the EU In march unless all other 27 member states agree how does that work? Shaggy any ideas ?


Barnier will not be sidelined and there are 27 leaders on the other side who need convincing, it has to be unanimously approved. Merkel and Macron are the main ones for sure but every member vote counts. So anybody feeling UK will have an unfair advantage will not approve the deal. Thus I think it will have to be very close to an existing arrangement.


I think barnier is already sidelined macron and merkel are probably working with May as we speak, barniers job is simply to state their position. You are right there are 25 other countries in the EU all with differing needs and opinions one reason why Britain was right to leave any agreements are a mish mash. Their opinions count but I feel bottom line Britain France and Germany will agree the shape of any deal that comes out. I think there will be a deal (I don't want one) but I think there is simply too much to lose and I think it will be a soft brexit which won't please a lot of people but it will be sufficient for May to say she delivered brexit. May will then step down. My big fear is many Tory voters will feel betrayed and withhold their vote at the next election meaning we get the nightmare of a Marxist PM. As I have said before that really will screw the British economy especially post brexit when Britain needs to be competitive. That is my biggest fear at the moment
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 10:35 AM

The other point about these guardian and independent articles is they are part of a campaign to keep us in the EU by guerilla tactics. Open Britain funded by George Soros and people like Blair are running a campaign this summer to try to stop us exiting the EU. So all these daily horror stories (food running out the latest one) you see in the remain papers are I am sure fed by this group to friendly journalists to their cause. Their aim is to stop us leaving by march which is why (from my point of view) we leave as members by that date. After that open Britain will go away and we can return to normal.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The other point about these guardian and independent articles is they are part of a campaign to keep us in the EU by guerilla tactics. Open Britain funded by George Soros and people like Blair are running a campaign this summer to try to stop us exiting the EU. So all these daily horror stories (food running out the latest one) you see in the remain papers are I am sure fed by this group to friendly journalists to their cause. Their aim is to stop us leaving by march which is why (from my point of view) we leave as members by that date. After that open Britain will go away and we can return to normal.


The Mail and the express are of course bastions of unbiased journalism.

It is clear that whenever Britain finally leaves it will be with such a watered down version of Brexit that it won't have been worth the bother.

Also not one of the leading Brexiteers have come forward with a clear roadmap for Britain once you leave.

Farage jumped ship immediately (EU Pension guaranteed) and as you near the point of no return Boris and Davis have abdicated their responsibilities also. Gove has performed a complete u-turn in order to save his own skin and Raab barely lasted a fortnight.

The brexiteers don't have a plan outside of Moggs declaration that it may take 50 years before Britain sees the benefits of Brexit. I don't remember seeing that on the side of any campaign buses.

Brexit has turned the UK into a laughing stock on the world stage and the government stumbles from one crisis to another on an almost daily basis. It is hamstrung by an internal civil war and took two years to present a white paper that was instantly sabotaged by the far right loonies who seek a No deal Brexit.

It has now reached the stage where the Brexit Department will no longer be negotiating the Brexit deal and May has taken over the reins herself. Hostilities in parliament will recommence in the autumn and all the while the clock will be ticking.

Brexiteers including Stan are now happy to accept a customs union with a different name and EU rules with the only definite being that British concessions will continue as the EU holds all the cards.

It seems that any Brexit will do so that brexiteers can claim some kind of victory at the end of all this madness. At the end of it all it will be the ordinary people who suffer most as always.

It is going to be an expensive price to pay for a blue passport.



Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 01:28 PM

Of course the express and mail do the same thing as the guardian / independent. With newspaper articles what you should look at is not what they say but what they don't say and use your judgement. A nice long post there shaggy but nothing in it other than being disparaging. Clearly we are heading for a soft brexit I can live with that provided a) we legally leave the EU as members b) the three red lines are not crossed (I won't repeat them again). For me I would be happy with that the big fear (which might still happen) is the establishment does not allow brexit either keeps making us vote until we give the right answer (a classic EU trait) or indefinitely postpones brexit until we get bored. Either are possible. As for the independent story on reflection (which involves thinking shaggy) I think it's a non story. We know there is a transition period we know we have to obey some EU rules then so contractually we either have to have a new agreement (which requires all 28 to agree and will take years) or we technically retain small elements of the 1972 for a short period. There is also article 50 to consider I assume once this expires we are no longer a member. But I am not an expert on international law I may be wrong anyone clarify? Shaggy you continue to post your links and say people are bad people I now no longer have an expectation of anything better
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 01:39 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Of course the express and mail do the same thing as the guardian / independent. With newspaper articles what you should look at is not what they say but what they don't say and use your judgement. A nice long post there shaggy but nothing in it other than being disparaging. Clearly we are heading for a soft brexit I can live with that provided a) we legally leave the EU as members b) the three red lines are not crossed (I won't repeat them again). For me I would be happy with that the big fear (which might still happen) is the establishment does not allow brexit either keeps making us vote until we give the right answer (a classic EU trait) or indefinitely postpones brexit until we get bored. Either are possible. As for the independent story on reflection (which involves thinking shaggy) I think it's a non story. We know there is a transition period we know we have to obey some EU rules then so contractually we either have to have a new agreement (which requires all 28 to agree and will take years) or we technically retain small elements of the 1972 for a short period. There is also article 50 to consider I assume once this expires we are no longer a member. But I am not an expert on international law I may be wrong anyone clarify? Shaggy you continue to post your links and say people are bad people I now no longer have an expectation of anything better


What you no longer have Stan, indeed what you never had, like all brexiteers is an answer.

Not one acceptable Brexit plan put forward in 2 years.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Of course the express and mail do the same thing as the guardian / independent. With newspaper articles what you should look at is not what they say but what they don't say and use your judgement. A nice long post there shaggy but nothing in it other than being disparaging. Clearly we are heading for a soft brexit I can live with that provided a) we legally leave the EU as members b) the three red lines are not crossed (I won't repeat them again). For me I would be happy with that the big fear (which might still happen) is the establishment does not allow brexit either keeps making us vote until we give the right answer (a classic EU trait) or indefinitely postpones brexit until we get bored. Either are possible. As for the independent story on reflection (which involves thinking shaggy) I think it's a non story. We know there is a transition period we know we have to obey some EU rules then so contractually we either have to have a new agreement (which requires all 28 to agree and will take years) or we technically retain small elements of the 1972 for a short period. There is also article 50 to consider I assume once this expires we are no longer a member. But I am not an expert on international law I may be wrong anyone clarify? Shaggy you continue to post your links and say people are bad people I now no longer have an expectation of anything better


What you no longer have Stan, indeed what you never had, like all brexiteers is an answer.

Not one acceptable Brexit plan put forward in 2 years.


I dont understand an answer to what? Not every person in the UK has exactly the same thought on anything never mind brexit. Somebody wont be happy but if we leave as I describe above I will accept it. We can always adjust by the future ballot box.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 01:54 PM

Hmmm,not always Stan.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 02:08 PM

I will put it in black and white

1 -Another referedum
2- Extending article 50
3- The UK staying in the single market and customs union

Would get my back up

All are possible hence why I will take a soft brexit rather than no brexit at all. Which is what the establishment secretly want. An Irish republican siding with the british establishment against ordinary people funny old world we live in
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I will put it in black and white

1 -Another referedum
2- Extending article 50
3- The UK staying in the single market and customs union

Would get my back up

All are possible hence why I will take a soft brexit rather than no brexit at all. Which is what the establishment secretly want. An Irish republican siding with the british establishment against ordinary people funny old world we live in


So you see the British establishment as an enemy of the British people.

It took a while but well done.

Anyone who thinks Tory brexiteers care about ordinary people needs to catch themselves on.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I will put it in black and white

1 -Another referedum
2- Extending article 50
3- The UK staying in the single market and customs union

Would get my back up

All are possible hence why I will take a soft brexit rather than no brexit at all. Which is what the establishment secretly want. An Irish republican siding with the british establishment against ordinary people funny old world we live in


So you see the British establishment as an enemy of the British people.

It took a while but well done.

Anyone who thinks Tory brexiteers care about ordinary people needs to catch themselves on.



The people who voted for brexit came from all walks of life and all political allegances 7 out of ten labour constituencies voted to leave almost the entire north of England and Midlands (hardly a rich area) voted to leave. So maybe you are the one who needs to catch themselves on. And for the record yes I don't trust the establishment my first lesson was hillsborough and on many occasions since I have never had cause to change my mind. John major recently described the electorate as "the tyranny of the majority" the majority shaggy is is you and me the plebs. John major and establishment figures think the majority of people are thick and are not clever enough to vote on how we are governed it should be left to people like him. Presumably you agree with him ?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I will put it in black and white

1 -Another referedum
2- Extending article 50
3- The UK staying in the single market and customs union

Would get my back up

All are possible hence why I will take a soft brexit rather than no brexit at all. Which is what the establishment secretly want. An Irish republican siding with the british establishment against ordinary people funny old world we live in


So you see the British establishment as an enemy of the British people.

It took a while but well done.

Anyone who thinks Tory brexiteers care about ordinary people needs to catch themselves on.



The people who voted for brexit came from all walks of life and all political allegances 7 out of ten labour constituencies voted to leave almost the entire north of England and Midlands (hardly a rich area) voted to leave. So maybe you are the one who needs to catch themselves on. And for the record yes I don't trust the establishment my first lesson was hillsborough and on many occasions since I have never had cause to change my mind. John major recently described the electorate as "the tyranny of the majority" the majority shaggy is is you and me the plebs. John major and establishment figures think the majority of people are thick and are not clever enough to vote on how we are governed it should be left to people like him. Presumably you agree with him ?


In your democracy you don't vote to govern, ie, vote on decisions/laws but you vote people to govern you, isn't it? Unless I'm mistaken but I think you voted for him to govern you, ie, his party who chose him to be the head of your government, so what has changed now?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 07:31 PM

I think you will find Vish we massively voted john major out it was a landslide for tony Blair we swopped one bad PM for another in 1997. In terms of how we are governed we occassionally have referendums voting system, joining the common market leaving the EU. But Unfortunetly in the modern world the losing side tries to change the result this is a recent development saying people did not know what they were doing, were stupid etc or in the case of john major people should not vote at all.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I will put it in black and white

1 -Another referedum
2- Extending article 50
3- The UK staying in the single market and customs union

Would get my back up

All are possible hence why I will take a soft brexit rather than no brexit at all. Which is what the establishment secretly want. An Irish republican siding with the british establishment against ordinary people funny old world we live in


So you see the British establishment as an enemy of the British people.

It took a while but well done.

Anyone who thinks Tory brexiteers care about ordinary people needs to catch themselves on.



The people who voted for brexit came from all walks of life and all political allegances 7 out of ten labour constituencies voted to leave almost the entire north of England and Midlands (hardly a rich area) voted to leave. So maybe you are the one who needs to catch themselves on. And for the record yes I don't trust the establishment my first lesson was hillsborough and on many occasions since I have never had cause to change my mind. John major recently described the electorate as "the tyranny of the majority" the majority shaggy is is you and me the plebs. John major and establishment figures think the majority of people are thick and are not clever enough to vote on how we are governed it should be left to people like him. Presumably you agree with him ?


Do you even read other people's posts before you reply?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 08:34 PM

if you think the people who voted to leave the EU are all rich Tories you really understand little of Britain and its people.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 08:35 PM

President Blair was a self centred dick.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
if you think the people who voted to leave the EU are all rich Tories you really understand little of Britain and its people.


Do please show me the post where I said that.

Reading other people's posts significantly helps the quality of the debate.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
if you think the people who voted to leave the EU are all rich Tories you really understand little of Britain and its people.


Do please show me the post where I said that.

Reading other people's posts significantly helps the quality of the debate.



Provided they have something worthwhile to add yes seriously I would really appreciate it if you added your own thoughts even if I disagree with them it's very frustrating engaging with a person who just pastes links or relegates complex issues to fictional personalities
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
if you think the people who voted to leave the EU are all rich Tories you really understand little of Britain and its people.


Do please show me the post where I said that.

Reading other people's posts significantly helps the quality of the debate.



Provided they have something worthwhile to add yes seriously I would really appreciate it if you added your own thoughts even if I disagree with them it's very frustrating engaging with a person who just pastes links or relegates complex issues to fictional personalities


Try reading them Stan
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 09:20 PM

Just read a very interesting article about the problems in Italy I know much about it but this was in much more detail. There are a whole bunch of both political and economic problems in the EU around debt, the unfairness of the euro and bad loans. To put in perspective the sub prime loan crisis in America was 5% bad loans Italy is thought to be three times that and endemic across the eurozone. It's very complex but they were warning of a crash that will make the 2008 crash a picnic. Funny enough they said the Target2 system which is the money transfer system across the euro requires the infrastructure and stability of the London financial system and a hard brexit would give them real problems. I don't trust the establishment and there is a lot we don't know in the public and I wonder if there is more than meets the eye in Mays soft brexit and the fact she is meeting the leaders directly. I wonder if something bad is going on we don't know ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 09:28 PM

If you google target2 and add Italy to the search there is a load of stuff on the web brexit is a sideshow
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/07/18 09:34 PM

My eyes might have been deceiving me in the article I received but it said Germany has put 8,000 billion euros into Spain and Italy that can't be right it is it ?

I must have got that wrong
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 02:35 AM

So May's proposal regarding the customs partnership is not workable for the EU as I expected. According to me there are only 3 possibilities for trade;
1. stay in the customs union which Rees Mogg etc do not want because they think there are greener pastures outside the EU
2. A Canada, Japan type trade deal acceptable to both the EU and hard Brexiters but not soft Brexiters, cross border business and DUP/Ireland as the border will have to move to the Irish see or on mainland Ireland
3. Crash out without a deal and go on WTO rules which will also mean hard borders.

Which one do you prefer because you'll probably be called to vote again? Do you think they should add option 4, staying in the EU in the ballot?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
So May's proposal regarding the customs partnership is not workable for the EU as I expected. According to me there are only 3 possibilities for trade;
1. stay in the customs union which Rees Mogg etc do not want because they think there are greener pastures outside the EU
2. A Canada, Japan type trade deal acceptable to both the EU and hard Brexiters but not soft Brexiters, cross border business and DUP/Ireland as the border will have to move to the Irish see or on mainland Ireland
3. Crash out without a deal and go on WTO rules which will also mean hard borders.

Which one do you prefer because you'll probably be called to vote again? Do you think they should add option 4, staying in the EU in the ballot?


I think I would prefer WTO the hard border is totally overplayed in Northern Ireland there is already a hard border now not physical but there are different tax systems. The same would happen under WTO the trade between the republic and Northern Ireland is peanuts. If there are tariffs and short term disruption within the uk as a whole so be it. If you want to know what I would do I would have activated article 50 within a month of the vote. However it's not up to me Unfortunetly. Because barnier has rejected something does not mean negotiations have stopped quite the opposite 80% has been agreed and talks are going on quite aggressively my feeling is a deal will be ageed I am just worried I won't like it. If not then no deal. There is also something else QE has finished or slowed down and growth is slowing in Europe and the UK and the EU has massive problems with Italy and the euro so big they could bring the EU down within months. The eu also will be in massive trouble if Britain withholds the £39b if we leave without a deal the eu is insolvent. Another referendum would kill our democracy forever nothing would ever be trusted again and I think there would be civil unrest. There is also not time for another referendum they take years to prepare legally and constitutionally. The best outcome for me (given where we stand) is a so called soft brexit but keeping the red lines (which I understand to be the governments position) and amend occordingly over time via parliament when we are no longer EU members.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 08:15 AM

It would also be legally very difficult to have a muilple choice referendum any more than a binary choice has problems with the maths and legality the so called people's vote which the small number of hard core remainer politicians want is probably not possible they would have to re-run the referendum again which would be crazy. By the way leave would win again by a mile
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It would also be legally very difficult to have a muilple choice referendum any more than a binary choice has problems with the maths and legality the so called people's vote which the small number of hard core remainer politicians want is probably not possible they would have to re-run the referendum again which would be crazy. By the way leave would win again by a mile


You can also just have 2 rounds as some do it for presidential elections. Otherwise how do you go about with the parliament not getting a majority, just crash out?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
So May's proposal regarding the customs partnership is not workable for the EU as I expected. According to me there are only 3 possibilities for trade;
1. stay in the customs union which Rees Mogg etc do not want because they think there are greener pastures outside the EU
2. A Canada, Japan type trade deal acceptable to both the EU and hard Brexiters but not soft Brexiters, cross border business and DUP/Ireland as the border will have to move to the Irish see or on mainland Ireland
3. Crash out without a deal and go on WTO rules which will also mean hard borders.

Which one do you prefer because you'll probably be called to vote again? Do you think they should add option 4, staying in the EU in the ballot?


I think I would prefer WTO the hard border is totally overplayed in Northern Ireland there is already a hard border now not physical but there are different tax systems. The same would happen under WTO the trade between the republic and Northern Ireland is peanuts. If there are tariffs and short term disruption within the uk as a whole so be it. If you want to know what I would do I would have activated article 50 within a month of the vote. However it's not up to me Unfortunetly. Because barnier has rejected something does not mean negotiations have stopped quite the opposite 80% has been agreed and talks are going on quite aggressively my feeling is a deal will be ageed I am just worried I won't like it. If not then no deal. There is also something else QE has finished or slowed down and growth is slowing in Europe and the UK and the EU has massive problems with Italy and the euro so big they could bring the EU down within months. The eu also will be in massive trouble if Britain withholds the £39b if we leave without a deal the eu is insolvent. Another referendum would kill our democracy forever nothing would ever be trusted again and I think there would be civil unrest. There is also not time for another referendum they take years to prepare legally and constitutionally. The best outcome for me (given where we stand) is a so called soft brexit but keeping the red lines (which I understand to be the governments position) and amend occordingly over time via parliament when we are no longer EU members.


Don't think you can have a soft Brexit if you keep the red lines. I think what the EU could agree is a Canada/Japan type trade deal. That would imply a border. Maybe they should agree of not having a border in Ireland. That would mean a border at ports to enter the EU from the British isles. Might be a problem for the ROI but I don't think it would be huge as I don't think there is relatively a lot of exports from Ireland to the EU. In any case the ports in the EU handle lots of shipments from all over the non EU countries. I don't know if the ROI would accept that though.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It would also be legally very difficult to have a muilple choice referendum any more than a binary choice has problems with the maths and legality the so called people's vote which the small number of hard core remainer politicians want is probably not possible they would have to re-run the referendum again which would be crazy. By the way leave would win again by a mile


You can also just have 2 rounds as some do it for presidential elections. Otherwise how do you go about with the parliament not getting a majority, just crash out?


We can't change our constitution to suit a few remainers. A multiple choice referendum there is some debate whether it would be legal. Say there are four options 26% of the voters could win politically it would be a farce. It's also prone to being influenced by action groups given there would be a very low turnout. It would be a farce. The only option would be another in or out referendum because they didn't accept the first answer again completely crazy. Plus either option would take years referendums have to be done strictly to parliament law. Thinking about it today there are only three options

1- we agree a deal that respects the referendum and works for the EU and UK.
2- we go onto WTO
3- we do a straightforward Canada type deal.

I don't believe any other option is possible. There is talk of a chequers minus minus deal however parliament (100 brexit Tory MP,s) would reject that plus the Tories would not be elected ever again. So that's out another referendum is out so that leaves only those three. As for the Irish border well they have allowed it to be a pawn of the EU and hence they will have to take what comes.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/07/18 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It would also be legally very difficult to have a muilple choice referendum any more than a binary choice has problems with the maths and legality the so called people's vote which the small number of hard core remainer politicians want is probably not possible they would have to re-run the referendum again which would be crazy. By the way leave would win again by a mile


You can also just have 2 rounds as some do it for presidential elections. Otherwise how do you go about with the parliament not getting a majority, just crash out?


We can't change our constitution to suit a few remainers. A multiple choice referendum there is some debate whether it would be legal. Say there are four options 26% of the voters could win politically it would be a farce. It's also prone to being influenced by action groups given there would be a very low turnout. It would be a farce. The only option would be another in or out referendum because they didn't accept the first answer again completely crazy. Plus either option would take years referendums have to be done strictly to parliament law. Thinking about it today there are only three options

1- we agree a deal that respects the referendum and works for the EU and UK.
2- we go onto WTO
3- we do a straightforward Canada type deal.

I don't believe any other option is possible. There is talk of a chequers minus minus deal however parliament (100 brexit Tory MP,s) would reject that plus the Tories would not be elected ever again. So that's out another referendum is out so that leaves only those three. As for the Irish border well they have allowed it to be a pawn of the EU and hence they will have to take what comes.


I would be very interested to see how your options 2 or 3 works with a border.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It would also be legally very difficult to have a muilple choice referendum any more than a binary choice has problems with the maths and legality the so called people's vote which the small number of hard core remainer politicians want is probably not possible they would have to re-run the referendum again which would be crazy. By the way leave would win again by a mile


You can also just have 2 rounds as some do it for presidential elections. Otherwise how do you go about with the parliament not getting a majority, just crash out?


We can't change our constitution to suit a few remainers. A multiple choice referendum there is some debate whether it would be legal. Say there are four options 26% of the voters could win politically it would be a farce. It's also prone to being influenced by action groups given there would be a very low turnout. It would be a farce. The only option would be another in or out referendum because they didn't accept the first answer again completely crazy. Plus either option would take years referendums have to be done strictly to parliament law. Thinking about it today there are only three options

1- we agree a deal that respects the referendum and works for the EU and UK.
2- we go onto WTO
3- we do a straightforward Canada type deal.

I don't believe any other option is possible. There is talk of a chequers minus minus deal however parliament (100 brexit Tory MP,s) would reject that plus the Tories would not be elected ever again. So that's out another referendum is out so that leaves only those three. As for the Irish border well they have allowed it to be a pawn of the EU and hence they will have to take what comes.


You do realise that only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Now that is a real farce.

Also the Irish border is a real issue and Britain's failure to come up with a feasible solution is Britain's problem.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 01:08 PM

It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland


And you think everything will be fine when/if the paramilitary in NI decide to knock down the border as they preferred to be Europeans rather than a colony of England
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland


And you think everything will be fine when/if the paramilitary in NI decide to knock down the border as they preferred to be Europeans rather than a colony of England


That would be bad but we can't be ruled by paramilitaries. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK thats a fact. The idiots were fighting and throwing petrol bombs the other week one lady on the news said the average age was 15 or 16 whom had never been born in the troubles. From my reading there are some on the republican side who don't accept the good Friday agreement. So brexit or no brexit Unfortunetly there will always be trouble in that blighted area. My own personal view is I would be happy to see it part of Ireland but the republic don't want it either because they would be responsible to keeping the two sides away from one another's throats. And given Ireland has almost no military they would be incapable of that.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland


And you think everything will be fine when/if the paramilitary in NI decide to knock down the border as they preferred to be Europeans rather than a colony of England


That would be bad but we can't be ruled by paramilitaries. The majority of people in Northern Ireland want to be part of the UK thats a fact. The idiots were fighting and throwing petrol bombs the other week one lady on the news said the average age was 15 or 16 whom had never been born in the troubles. From my reading there are some on the republican side who don't accept the good Friday agreement. So brexit or no brexit Unfortunetly there will always be trouble in that blighted area. My own personal view is I would be happy to see it part of Ireland but the republic don't want it either because they would be responsible to keeping the two sides away from one another's throats. And given Ireland has almost no military they would be incapable of that.


You no even less about N. Ireland than you do about Brexit.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 02:52 PM

[quote=Stanley Park]It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland [/quote

If you go out without a deal it will be entirely your own fault as it is impossible to negotiate a deal when one side doesn't even know what it wants.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 03:02 PM

Shaggy am I wrong about renegade IRA and INLA units ? I accept you are likely to know more about this than I. By the way that is not saying you are connected just you are more likely to hear street talk than I. Why was the petrol bomb thrown at the home of Gerry Adams ? Was that renegade republican units or loyslist have you heard rumour wise? Yes you are right I have no idea and it's not been reported in the press however it will be known who it is.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
[quote=Stanley Park]It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland [/quote

If you go out without a deal it will be entirely your own fault as it is impossible to negotiate a deal when one side doesn't even know what it wants.


The white paper obviously passed you by. However we are running out of time and whose fault it is really no longer matters
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/07/18 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
[quote=Stanley Park]It's fine everyone saying everything is Britains problem and then dissing every solution Britain comes up with. That can only go on for so long we are running out of time fast. The Irish and the EU will either have to start working with Britain or we go out without a deal. Simple as that. And the biggest losers will be the Republic of Ireland [/quote

If you go out without a deal it will be entirely your own fault as it is impossible to negotiate a deal when one side doesn't even know what it wants.


The white paper obviously passed you by. However we are running out of time and whose fault it is really no longer matters


That white paper is unworkable regarding trade. How can you want to have your own tariffs with other countries but no border with EU which have other tariffs with the same countries? It's stupid.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/07/18 01:21 PM

The negotiations on the white paper are ongoing yes we know the EU has issues. By the way I am no fan of the white paper but given the politics in the UK with most of parliament at odds with the electorate it's probably the best chance of getting a deal. What you are not taking account Vish is that no one (not even the press) knows what's happening in those negotiations happening now. At the end of the day it will be a political decision by the EU they know May can't water it down substantially and they know there are only two other options no deal or a basic trade deal. It's a case now of which way the EU will turn the ball is in their court. I have no idea but my instinct tells me a slightly watered down white paper that the UK government can still sell as respecting the referendum is the most likely. Why ? Because they are locked in talks and despite the bluster both sides want a deal
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 04:07 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The negotiations on the white paper are ongoing yes we know the EU has issues. By the way I am no fan of the white paper but given the politics in the UK with most of parliament at odds with the electorate it's probably the best chance of getting a deal. What you are not taking account Vish is that no one (not even the press) knows what's happening in those negotiations happening now. At the end of the day it will be a political decision by the EU they know May can't water it down substantially and they know there are only two other options no deal or a basic trade deal. It's a case now of which way the EU will turn the ball is in their court. I have no idea but my instinct tells me a slightly watered down white paper that the UK government can still sell as respecting the referendum is the most likely. Why ? Because they are locked in talks and despite the bluster both sides want a deal


I know you don't like experts but I don't think there is a better option than a second referendum if the parliament cannot make up their mind

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/995847...ferendum-Remain
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 04:26 AM

You should be demanding a second vote for no other reason than the last one was invalid as the leave campaign cheated and broke the election laws. Simple as that.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The negotiations on the white paper are ongoing yes we know the EU has issues. By the way I am no fan of the white paper but given the politics in the UK with most of parliament at odds with the electorate it's probably the best chance of getting a deal. What you are not taking account Vish is that no one (not even the press) knows what's happening in those negotiations happening now. At the end of the day it will be a political decision by the EU they know May can't water it down substantially and they know there are only two other options no deal or a basic trade deal. It's a case now of which way the EU will turn the ball is in their court. I have no idea but my instinct tells me a slightly watered down white paper that the UK government can still sell as respecting the referendum is the most likely. Why ? Because they are locked in talks and despite the bluster both sides want a deal


I know you don't like experts but I don't think there is a better option than a second referendum if the parliament cannot make up their mind

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/995847...ferendum-Remain


Let me get this right the British people in the biggest turn out in history with a clear instruction to the government who promise to implement that will. The politicians squabble and can't agree. We are then told to vote again because the politicians screwed up.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The negotiations on the white paper are ongoing yes we know the EU has issues. By the way I am no fan of the white paper but given the politics in the UK with most of parliament at odds with the electorate it's probably the best chance of getting a deal. What you are not taking account Vish is that no one (not even the press) knows what's happening in those negotiations happening now. At the end of the day it will be a political decision by the EU they know May can't water it down substantially and they know there are only two other options no deal or a basic trade deal. It's a case now of which way the EU will turn the ball is in their court. I have no idea but my instinct tells me a slightly watered down white paper that the UK government can still sell as respecting the referendum is the most likely. Why ? Because they are locked in talks and despite the bluster both sides want a deal


I know you don't like experts but I don't think there is a better option than a second referendum if the parliament cannot make up their mind

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/995847...ferendum-Remain


Let me get this right the British people in the biggest turn out in history with a clear instruction to the government who promise to implement that will. The politicians squabble and can't agree. We are then told to vote again because the politicians screwed up.


I think the problem Stan is that Brexit is undeliverable.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The negotiations on the white paper are ongoing yes we know the EU has issues. By the way I am no fan of the white paper but given the politics in the UK with most of parliament at odds with the electorate it's probably the best chance of getting a deal. What you are not taking account Vish is that no one (not even the press) knows what's happening in those negotiations happening now. At the end of the day it will be a political decision by the EU they know May can't water it down substantially and they know there are only two other options no deal or a basic trade deal. It's a case now of which way the EU will turn the ball is in their court. I have no idea but my instinct tells me a slightly watered down white paper that the UK government can still sell as respecting the referendum is the most likely. Why ? Because they are locked in talks and despite the bluster both sides want a deal


I know you don't like experts but I don't think there is a better option than a second referendum if the parliament cannot make up their mind

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/995847...ferendum-Remain


Let me get this right the British people in the biggest turn out in history with a clear instruction to the government who promise to implement that will. The politicians squabble and can't agree. We are then told to vote again because the politicians screwed up.


So what do you want to do if your elected politicians cannot agree?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog


I think the problem Stan is that Brexit is undeliverable.


It is deliverable if they all stop fukking around and playing politics. Itíll take compromise on both sides and youíll never keep everyone happy and people need to accept it like it or not. I voted remain but am far from happy that theyíre all fukking about and with people frustrating the process.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 06:58 PM

The politicians frustrating brexit are a mix of firstly those who can't accept the result and are trying to stop it by guerilla tactics including outside funding from soros and other magnates including a massive fake news programme currently ongoing. The second bunch are mainly labour and their aim is to use brexit to bring down the government in effect damaging britains interest to gain political power. There are a number of labour MP,s at the moment facing deselection because they voted to respect brexit and help the government to get a deal. They are facing deselection not because they support brexit but because they did not vote to damage the government even though that would damage Britain. Let's out this in perspective an MP swears an oath to serve the country and they are supposed to represent their consitiuents most labour constituencies voted leave. So if shaggy says brexit is undeliverable it is only because of our political class. They are an utter disgrace and post brexit we need to be thinking of new parties like as been the case in Europe. I understand the party leading France only started a few years ago.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The politicians frustrating brexit are a mix of firstly those who can't accept the result and are trying to stop it by guerilla tactics including outside funding from soros and other magnates including a massive fake news programme currently ongoing. The second bunch are mainly labour and their aim is to use brexit to bring down the government in effect damaging britains interest to gain political power. There are a number of labour MP,s at the moment facing deselection because they voted to respect brexit and help the government to get a deal. They are facing deselection not because they support brexit but because they did not vote to damage the government even though that would damage Britain. Let's out this in perspective an MP swears an oath to serve the country and they are supposed to represent their consitiuents most labour constituencies voted leave. So if shaggy says brexit is undeliverable it is only because of our political class. They are an utter disgrace and post brexit we need to be thinking of new parties like as been the case in Europe. I understand the party leading France only started a few years ago.


Nothing will change politically in Britain until you introduce proportional representation.

As you said Stan, a monkey could get elected in safe labour and conservative seats.

.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:07 PM

Whether PR is the answer I don't know it needs looking at along with a lot of things. Personally I think one of the big issues is we no longer have conviction politicans they are career politicans they go straight from university to one of the political parties with no life experience. Most people would be shocked how naive and stupid are some of our politicans who wield extreme power and would be unemployable in any other walk of life. The reason most of them like the EU is it's a source of employment for them and a very very lucrative one at that.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:14 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtd6DvLoCsU
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:25 PM

Ride with me Stan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mGKXG6TH7A
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Whether PR is the answer I don't know it needs looking at along with a lot of things. Personally I think one of the big issues is we no longer have conviction politicans they are career politicans they go straight from university to one of the political parties with no life experience. Most people would be shocked how naive and stupid are some of our politicans who wield extreme power and would be unemployable in any other walk of life. The reason most of them like the EU is it's a source of employment for them and a very very lucrative one at that.


I would agree that for most a career in politics is just that and it is no longer a calling. Just last week we witnessed Ian Paisley admit in parliament that he had accepted free luxury family holidays in Sri Lanka. In return Ian wrote to David Cameron to lobby against supporting a UN resolution on Human Rights abuses in Sri Lanka. Despite the fact that he was caught red handed and given an unprecedented ban Paisley still hasn't resigned. Arrogance on this scale is breathtaking, but of course Ian is by no means an exception.

If PR achieved nothing else it may end the status quo, which clearly isn't serving the electorate well. I may not agree with you on Brexit Stan, but I understand entirely your frustration at your parliament ignoring the democratic voice of the people who put them there in the first place.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_XS8eQ2NA
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:48 PM

At the end of the day shaggy whatever your view on an individual issue if you have bad politics ultimately we all lose. Remainers may be happy now about politicans not respecting brexit but in a year or two it might be something else, something dear to them. Imagine winning the vote for a United ireland then the politicians saying but what does a United ireland mean ? Did the people understand what they were voting for. Yes Ireland will be United but by the way some laws will be under British control. Maybe we need another vote etc etc etc I would like to say I am shocked about Paisley but I am not there are plenty like him. I am seriously starting to despise politicians which is not healthy
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 09:50 PM

It's never too late Stan.. Vote Corbyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cg_guXQegQ
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/07/18 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
At the end of the day shaggy whatever your view on an individual issue if you have bad politics ultimately we all lose. Remainers may be happy now about politicans not respecting brexit but in a year or two it might be something else, something dear to them. Imagine winning the vote for a United ireland then the politicians saying but what does a United ireland mean ? Did the people understand what they were voting for. Yes Ireland will be United but by the way some laws will be under British control. Maybe we need another vote etc etc etc I would like to say I am shocked about Paisley but I am not there are plenty like him. I am seriously starting to despise politicians which is not healthy


I agree with you Stan, modern politicians have little to be proud about.

I think a lot of remainers have accepted that Brexit is going to take place but it's what form it takes that is causing difficulty. I don't think anyone seriously thinks there is going to be a second referendum.

Any future vote on a United Ireland will have to include safeguards for unionists amongst other things before a vote could take place. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 03:09 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
At the end of the day shaggy whatever your view on an individual issue if you have bad politics ultimately we all lose. Remainers may be happy now about politicans not respecting brexit but in a year or two it might be something else, something dear to them. Imagine winning the vote for a United ireland then the politicians saying but what does a United ireland mean ? Did the people understand what they were voting for. Yes Ireland will be United but by the way some laws will be under British control. Maybe we need another vote etc etc etc I would like to say I am shocked about Paisley but I am not there are plenty like him. I am seriously starting to despise politicians which is not healthy


I agree with you Stan, modern politicians have little to be proud about.

I think a lot of remainers have accepted that Brexit is going to take place but it's what form it takes that is causing difficulty. I don't think anyone seriously thinks there is going to be a second referendum.

Any future vote on a United Ireland will have to include safeguards for unionists amongst other things before a vote could take place. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.


In general yes but I am not sure if hard or soft Brexit is all about politics, for a lot of MPs it's about belief. I doesn't look to me that the likes of Ken Clark or Anna Soubry have a political agenda or a huge ambition as Boris the clown.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 03:40 PM

Ken Clarke and Anna soubry have an agenda all right they are fantatical europhiles. Both are near to retirement good old ken wanted us to join the euro. I remember it him and john major we would (according to them) face economic ruin if we failed to join the euro. Now where have we heard talk like that recently ? In any case it's irrelevant Clarke and soubry have no power in the Tory party they are a minority. The sooner brexit is sorted the better this political nonsense is getting tiresome. A businessman on TV yesterday said something that hit home to me. In business if you procrastinate it's seen as bad if an MP procrastinates they gain more power. And we wonder why the country is in a mess!
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ken Clarke and Anna soubry have an agenda all right they are fantatical europhiles. Both are near to retirement good old ken wanted us to join the euro. I remember it him and john major we would (according to them) face economic ruin if we failed to join the euro. Now where have we heard talk like that recently ? In any case it's irrelevant Clarke and soubry have no power in the Tory party they are a minority. The sooner brexit is sorted the better this political nonsense is getting tiresome. A businessman on TV yesterday said something that hit home to me. In business if you procrastinate it's seen as bad if an MP procrastinates they gain more power. And we wonder why the country is in a mess!


What's their agenda? They are close to retirement as you say, so they are just fighting for their belief. Exactly what I said.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ken Clarke and Anna soubry have an agenda all right they are fantatical europhiles. Both are near to retirement good old ken wanted us to join the euro. I remember it him and john major we would (according to them) face economic ruin if we failed to join the euro. Now where have we heard talk like that recently ? In any case it's irrelevant Clarke and soubry have no power in the Tory party they are a minority. The sooner brexit is sorted the better this political nonsense is getting tiresome. A businessman on TV yesterday said something that hit home to me. In business if you procrastinate it's seen as bad if an MP procrastinates they gain more power. And we wonder why the country is in a mess!


What's their agenda? They are close to retirement as you say, so they are just fighting for their belief. Exactly what I said.


What are they fighting for ? to overturn the referendum result is that their belief ? In which case the sooner they retire the better if they have learned so little about democracy. Anyway Vish if you are putting your faith in that pair to overturn brexit I wish you luck
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Ken Clarke and Anna soubry have an agenda all right they are fantatical europhiles. Both are near to retirement good old ken wanted us to join the euro. I remember it him and john major we would (according to them) face economic ruin if we failed to join the euro. Now where have we heard talk like that recently ? In any case it's irrelevant Clarke and soubry have no power in the Tory party they are a minority. The sooner brexit is sorted the better this political nonsense is getting tiresome. A businessman on TV yesterday said something that hit home to me. In business if you procrastinate it's seen as bad if an MP procrastinates they gain more power. And we wonder why the country is in a mess!


What's their agenda? They are close to retirement as you say, so they are just fighting for their belief. Exactly what I said.


What are they fighting for ? to overturn the referendum result is that their belief ? In which case the sooner they retire the better if they have learned so little about democracy. Anyway Vish if you are putting your faith in that pair to overturn brexit I wish you luck


Why should I turn anything or put faith anywhere in your mess? I was just telling you that it's not all politics as you stated, that's all. You have your beliefs but not everybody has the same and they can fight for their beliefs as much the want. Live with it. If you thought everything would be plain sailing in such a divided country, you were deluding yourself.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 07:07 PM

The whole thing is a sorry mess and it looks like we are going to have a hard border forced upon us here in Ireland.




Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
The whole thing is a sorry mess and it looks like we are going to have a hard border forced upon us here in Ireland.



I am not sure what a hard border is in this context certaintly no one sees watchtowers however there might have to be more checks than otherwise would be the case. Britain has proposed a solution that would have needed no checks and seemed perfectly sensible to me. It was rejected by the EU and it's assistant the Republic of Ireland. Ireland had opportunity to work with Britain to create an amicable solution but shunned it in favour of allowing the EU to weaponise it. And now the price must be paid and the Irish will pay it. I know shaggy will say it's Britains mess Britain must sort it but only solution will require both sides to work together in the right spirit and time is rapidly running out. The stupid prime minister of Ireland has allowed the EU to use the Irish people as pawns in the EU,s game. The other claim to fame of the republics PM was threatening not to let British planes fly over Irish airspace not realising the RAF protect Irish airspace for free and that Ireland relies on British air traffic control. Not the brightest star in the sky for sure
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/07/18 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
The whole thing is a sorry mess and it looks like we are going to have a hard border forced upon us here in Ireland.



I am not sure what a hard border is in this context certaintly no one sees watchtowers however there might have to be more checks than otherwise would be the case. Britain has proposed a solution that would have needed no checks and seemed perfectly sensible to me. It was rejected by the EU and it's assistant the Republic of Ireland. Ireland had opportunity to work with Britain to create an amicable solution but shunned it in favour of allowing the EU to weaponise it. And now the price must be paid and the Irish will pay it. I know shaggy will say it's Britains mess Britain must sort it but only solution will require both sides to work together in the right spirit and time is rapidly running out. The stupid prime minister of Ireland has allowed the EU to use the Irish people as pawns in the EU,s game. The other claim to fame of the republics PM was threatening not to let British planes fly over Irish airspace not realising the RAF protect Irish airspace for free and that Ireland relies on British air traffic control. Not the brightest star in the sky for sure


Only insults Stan, no answers. That's all brexiteers have left now. That and blue passports.

Britain created this mess, not Ireland and not the EU. They still haven't offered a credible, workable solution two years later.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 10:21 AM

Britain in the negotiations has given way continuously the EU has given up nothing. In terms of the Irish border Britain has proposed a solution and the backstop Ireland and the EU have offered nothing other than rejecting every proposal and banking concessions and asking for more. We know what the EU gets from it but what does Ireland gain. It's clear now Britain has offered everything the EU have stonewalled the foreign secretary yesterday at last started to talk hardball with the EU. And a no deal looks very much on the cards. I read in that instance the worst country to be hit would be the Republic of Ireland with talk of their GDP falling 4% overnight. It's very hard to understand how the Irish prime ministers stance has helped Ireland. It's fine just keep saying it's Britains problem but time is running out. As for his idiotic comments about aircraft he just made a fool of himself. Britain didn't create this mess the British people voted to leave the EU that should be respected if Northern Ireland ever voted to rejoin the republic that would also create massive change should that then be rejected because of that reason ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Britain in the negotiations has given way continuously the EU has given up nothing. In terms of the Irish border Britain has proposed a solution and the backstop Ireland and the EU have offered nothing other than rejecting every proposal and banking concessions and asking for more. We know what the EU gets from it but what does Ireland gain. It's clear now Britain has offered everything the EU have stonewalled the foreign secretary yesterday at last started to talk hardball with the EU. And a no deal looks very much on the cards. I read in that instance the worst country to be hit would be the Republic of Ireland with talk of their GDP falling 4% overnight. It's very hard to understand how the Irish prime ministers stance has helped Ireland. It's fine just keep saying it's Britains problem but time is running out. As for his idiotic comments about aircraft he just made a fool of himself. Britain didn't create this mess the British people voted to leave the EU that should be respected if Northern Ireland ever voted to rejoin the republic that would also create massive change should that then be rejected because of that reason ?


Britain have given ground continuously because what they have been asking for is unattainable. Think "cake and eat it".

It's funny that if you read something in an article it is passed of as fact and if someone else posts an article it is project fear.

Your own government and your own parliament won't even respect the vote because they don't know that Brexit means. You have already folded on your original red lines and the current white paper is Brexit in Name Only.

The Good Friday Agreement is an internationally recognised peace agreement that Britain signed up to. The return of a hard border on the island of Ireland will destroy the Good Friday Agreement and the progress made in the last 20 years. Why should the 6 counties, who voted to remain, suffer because of a group of Tory right wing loonies obsessied with delivering a hard Brexit or a no deal Brexit.

Britain created the hard border nightmare just like they created the 6 counties statelet. It is up to Britain to provide an acceptable solution. But still we wait. We of course realise that there will be no solution whilst May is beholding to the DUP. Incidentally that's the same DUP that were the only party to vote against the Good Friday Agreement.

Get ready to fold again because you don't hold any cards.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Britain in the negotiations has given way continuously the EU has given up nothing. In terms of the Irish border Britain has proposed a solution and the backstop Ireland and the EU have offered nothing other than rejecting every proposal and banking concessions and asking for more. We know what the EU gets from it but what does Ireland gain. It's clear now Britain has offered everything the EU have stonewalled the foreign secretary yesterday at last started to talk hardball with the EU. And a no deal looks very much on the cards. I read in that instance the worst country to be hit would be the Republic of Ireland with talk of their GDP falling 4% overnight. It's very hard to understand how the Irish prime ministers stance has helped Ireland. It's fine just keep saying it's Britains problem but time is running out. As for his idiotic comments about aircraft he just made a fool of himself. Britain didn't create this mess the British people voted to leave the EU that should be respected if Northern Ireland ever voted to rejoin the republic that would also create massive change should that then be rejected because of that reason ?


What has UK given way again? There are existing models when in comes to relationship with the EU, UK want something else, they haven't given anything. What comes to your mind, I don't understand?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 03:14 PM

if the good Friday agreement is so important I would have thought the Irish prime minister would be keen to work with Britain to formulate an acceptable plan for the Irish border. He should also refrain from stupid provocative statements about aircraft particularly when he appears to know nothing about it. Also why the good Friday agreement keeps being thrown in by remainers I don't know border trade is not even in the good Friday agreement. The people who keep raking it up to stop brexit are the ones harming the peace process. May has moved to a soft brexit with the chequers agreement and the EU has offered nothing in return. Anything less than chequers is still in the EU. As I guessed a couple of weeks ago and turned out to be right Britain is now talking direct to EU leaders she is staying at macrons residence as we speak I wonder what they could be discussing ? Frogs legs ? Frances World Cup win ? Britain has moved as far as it can and no deal very much is on the cards now. If that means the Irish border is not to anyone's liking so be it in blame the Irish PM. May needs the DUP to get any deal through parliament so if it was too bad they would no doubt step in.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
if the good Friday agreement is so important I would have thought the Irish prime minister would be keen to work with Britain to formulate an acceptable plan for the Irish border. He should also refrain from stupid provocative statements about aircraft particularly when he appears to know nothing about it. Also why the good Friday agreement keeps being thrown in by remainers I don't know border trade is not even in the good Friday agreement. The people who keep raking it up to stop brexit are the ones harming the peace process. May has moved to a soft brexit with the chequers agreement and the EU has offered nothing in return. Anything less than chequers is still in the EU. As I guessed a couple of weeks ago and turned out to be right Britain is now talking direct to EU leaders she is staying at macrons residence as we speak I wonder what they could be discussing ? Frogs legs ? Frances World Cup win ? Britain has moved as far as it can and no deal very much is on the cards now. If that means the Irish border is not to anyone's liking so be it in blame the Irish PM. May needs the DUP to get any deal through parliament so if it was too bad they would no doubt step in.


So the best you can come up with is the Irish border issue is now the Irish Taoiseach's fault.

That's the thing with brexiteers, they have no answers.

Where is Farage, Boris, JRM or Davis's in depth plan for making Britain great after Brexit?
Gove had accepted the game is up and is now peddling Brexit in name only.

The Irish border problem may be a non issue for you but it is very real for the people living here.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 08:40 PM

Gove has slithered away in the background waiting to slither back and take Mays job.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/08/18 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Gove has slithered away in the background waiting to slither back and take Mays job.


A true statesman.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 09:15 AM

I dÚnt think you give a fig about the Irish border shaggy if you did you would be angry the EU and British remain politicans are using the good Friday agreement to weaponise the border in order for the EU to extract concessions from the UK it's their best weapon. The Irish people are being used as pawns in a wider game. The border and trade has nothing to do with the good Friday agreement as you well know. If there is to be a proper solution all sides involved have to work together carry on saying no no no to every suggestion Britain makes to destabilise our government and brexit will have one outcome and it's coming soon NO DEAL and the biggest sufferer will be the Republic of Ireland. Pity their prime minister has another agenda maybe he has a future EU role lined up.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dÚnt think you give a fig about the Irish border shaggy if you did you would be angry the EU and British remain politicans are using the good Friday agreement to weaponise the border in order for the EU to extract concessions from the UK it's their best weapon. The Irish people are being used as pawns in a wider game. The border and trade has nothing to do with the good Friday agreement as you well know. If there is to be a proper solution all sides involved have to work together carry on saying no no no to every suggestion Britain makes to destabilise our government and brexit will have one outcome and it's coming soon NO DEAL and the biggest sufferer will be the Republic of Ireland. Pity their prime minister has another agenda maybe he has a future EU role lined up.


Shocking ignorance on your part. But sadly not surprising. You are Brexit in a nutshell. Sound bites and no substance.

Britain will suffer worst from No Deal, but do keep deluding yourself.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dÚnt think you give a fig about the Irish border shaggy if you did you would be angry the EU and British remain politicans are using the good Friday agreement to weaponise the border in order for the EU to extract concessions from the UK it's their best weapon. The Irish people are being used as pawns in a wider game. The border and trade has nothing to do with the good Friday agreement as you well know. If there is to be a proper solution all sides involved have to work together carry on saying no no no to every suggestion Britain makes to destabilise our government and brexit will have one outcome and it's coming soon NO DEAL and the biggest sufferer will be the Republic of Ireland. Pity their prime minister has another agenda maybe he has a future EU role lined up.


Shocking ignorance on your part. But sadly not surprising. You are Brexit in a nutshell. Sound bites and no substance.

Britain will suffer worst from No Deal, but do keep deluding yourself.


Ignorance is not been able to article a coherant thought of your own. No deal will harm britain (but in my view only in the short term) but in a negotiation both sides have to work together. If that does not happen there will be no deal. In my view though there will be a deal its clear Barnier and the EU commission are not running things now. Its leader to leader and that should have been the case from day one. I may not like the deal but I fear it will come as long as it meets the red lines I have said many times previous then reluctantly I will accept it. The rest can be cleaned up in following elections.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dÚnt think you give a fig about the Irish border shaggy if you did you would be angry the EU and British remain politicans are using the good Friday agreement to weaponise the border in order for the EU to extract concessions from the UK it's their best weapon. The Irish people are being used as pawns in a wider game. The border and trade has nothing to do with the good Friday agreement as you well know. If there is to be a proper solution all sides involved have to work together carry on saying no no no to every suggestion Britain makes to destabilise our government and brexit will have one outcome and it's coming soon NO DEAL and the biggest sufferer will be the Republic of Ireland. Pity their prime minister has another agenda maybe he has a future EU role lined up.


Shocking ignorance on your part. But sadly not surprising. You are Brexit in a nutshell. Sound bites and no substance.

Britain will suffer worst from No Deal, but do keep deluding yourself.


Ignorance is not been able to article a coherant thought of your own. No deal will harm britain (but in my view only in the short term) but in a negotiation both sides have to work together. If that does not happen there will be no deal. In my view though there will be a deal its clear Barnier and the EU commission are not running things now. Its leader to leader and that should have been the case from day one. I may not like the deal but I fear it will come as long as it meets the red lines I have said many times previous then reluctantly I will accept it. The rest can be cleaned up in following elections.


No, ignorance is pretending a problem doesn't exist when you haven't got a solution.

Still waiting for even one brexiteers plan for making Britain a success after Brexit.

Also your assertion that Britain are going to divide and conquer the EU is naive in the extreme. No solution to the Irish border problem and there will be no deal.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 05:53 PM

Michael barnier has apparently announced he is improving the EU,s offer on the Irish border. Well there's a surprise !!!

Also some woman from sein fein has said they should have a referendum on a United ireland as if it was a threat. Go for it girl and I hope you win ! People in Northern Ireland get more services per head than the rest of the UK and almost their entire economy is public sector jobs HMRC have a very big complex in Belfast. I am sure mainland Britain would be delighted to have those jobs especially the poorer areas likewise public services. We don't know how brexit will turn out but it's a certainty Northern Ireland would be massively worse off with the republic. However some republicans might say so what ? I would rather have independence than economic things. I can respect that point of view. However I believe there is no way NI would vote to leave the UK obviously the unionists would not want it and I feel sure many Catholics when seeing the alternative would think twice. But whatever it would not bother me nor most people in Britain. I am sick of hearing what NI thinks with regard to brexit how many live there ? One million ? Two million ? There are 66 million in Britain it's about time we listened to what they think
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 07:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Michael barnier has apparently announced he is improving the EU,s offer on the Irish border. Well there's a surprise !!!

Also some woman from sein fein has said they should have a referendum on a United ireland as if it was a threat. Go for it girl and I hope you win ! People in Northern Ireland get more services per head than the rest of the UK and almost their entire economy is public sector jobs HMRC have a very big complex in Belfast. I am sure mainland Britain would be delighted to have those jobs especially the poorer areas likewise public services. We don't know how brexit will turn out but it's a certainty Northern Ireland would be massively worse off with the republic. However some republicans might say so what ? I would rather have independence than economic things. I can respect that point of view. However I believe there is no way NI would vote to leave the UK obviously the unionists would not want it and I feel sure many Catholics when seeing the alternative would think twice. But whatever it would not bother me nor most people in Britain. I am sick of hearing what NI thinks with regard to brexit how many live there ? One million ? Two million ? There are 66 million in Britain it's about time we listened to what they think


The EU never had an issue to do a Canada type trade deal with the UK if UK didn't want to be in the customs union, however, EU's problem has always been the Irish border. UK business however do not want a border and May is trying her luck with the Chequers proposal, ie, a different jurisdiction but without a border, this doesn't work in principle.

My feeling is that the EU will propose a Canada type trade deal without a border in Ireland but a border on mainland Europe. This will however mean a border between ROI and Europe, I don't know how disruptive that would be to ROI business. It will definitely be very disruptive to the like of Airbus, BMW etc.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/08/18 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Michael barnier has apparently announced he is improving the EU,s offer on the Irish border. Well there's a surprise !!!

Also some woman from sein fein has said they should have a referendum on a United ireland as if it was a threat. Go for it girl and I hope you win ! People in Northern Ireland get more services per head than the rest of the UK and almost their entire economy is public sector jobs HMRC have a very big complex in Belfast. I am sure mainland Britain would be delighted to have those jobs especially the poorer areas likewise public services. We don't know how brexit will turn out but it's a certainty Northern Ireland would be massively worse off with the republic. However some republicans might say so what ? I would rather have independence than economic things. I can respect that point of view. However I believe there is no way NI would vote to leave the UK obviously the unionists would not want it and I feel sure many Catholics when seeing the alternative would think twice. But whatever it would not bother me nor most people in Britain. I am sick of hearing what NI thinks with regard to brexit how many live there ? One million ? Two million ? There are 66 million in Britain it's about time we listened to what they think


And yet you have no bother with 10 DUP loonies leading your government around by the nose.

Brexit is so attractive to people in N. Ireland that they voted against it in the referendum. But you just ignore facts as usual.

You are making all the right brexiteer noises at the moment but as usual you offer neither solutions or a plan for moving forward after Brexit.

For many Brexiteers including you, it has become Brexit at any cost.

Nice to see your anti Irish bigotry raising its head again.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 10:18 AM

Plenty of anti British bigotry from you shaggy but given you are a hard line republican I guess that's in your genes. One question ? Should there be a new referendum on a United ireland as the president of sein fein wants assuming the republican side won the referendum do you think the vote should be respected and implemented in full ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Michael barnier has apparently announced he is improving the EU,s offer on the Irish border. Well there's a surprise !!!

Also some woman from sein fein has said they should have a referendum on a United ireland as if it was a threat. Go for it girl and I hope you win ! People in Northern Ireland get more services per head than the rest of the UK and almost their entire economy is public sector jobs HMRC have a very big complex in Belfast. I am sure mainland Britain would be delighted to have those jobs especially the poorer areas likewise public services. We don't know how brexit will turn out but it's a certainty Northern Ireland would be massively worse off with the republic. However some republicans might say so what ? I would rather have independence than economic things. I can respect that point of view. However I believe there is no way NI would vote to leave the UK obviously the unionists would not want it and I feel sure many Catholics when seeing the alternative would think twice. But whatever it would not bother me nor most people in Britain. I am sick of hearing what NI thinks with regard to brexit how many live there ? One million ? Two million ? There are 66 million in Britain it's about time we listened to what they think


The EU never had an issue to do a Canada type trade deal with the UK if UK didn't want to be in the customs union, however, EU's problem has always been the Irish border. UK business however do not want a border and May is trying her luck with the Chequers proposal, ie, a different jurisdiction but without a border, this doesn't work in principle.

My feeling is that the EU will propose a Canada type trade deal without a border in Ireland but a border on mainland Europe. This will however mean a border between ROI and Europe, I don't know how disruptive that would be to ROI business. It will definitely be very disruptive to the like of Airbus, BMW etc.


You may be right and that could work no solution is without its downsides including staying in the EU. The country and business will always adapt
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Michael barnier has apparently announced he is improving the EU,s offer on the Irish border. Well there's a surprise !!!

Also some woman from sein fein has said they should have a referendum on a United ireland as if it was a threat. Go for it girl and I hope you win ! People in Northern Ireland get more services per head than the rest of the UK and almost their entire economy is public sector jobs HMRC have a very big complex in Belfast. I am sure mainland Britain would be delighted to have those jobs especially the poorer areas likewise public services. We don't know how brexit will turn out but it's a certainty Northern Ireland would be massively worse off with the republic. However some republicans might say so what ? I would rather have independence than economic things. I can respect that point of view. However I believe there is no way NI would vote to leave the UK obviously the unionists would not want it and I feel sure many Catholics when seeing the alternative would think twice. But whatever it would not bother me nor most people in Britain. I am sick of hearing what NI thinks with regard to brexit how many live there ? One million ? Two million ? There are 66 million in Britain it's about time we listened to what they think


The EU never had an issue to do a Canada type trade deal with the UK if UK didn't want to be in the customs union, however, EU's problem has always been the Irish border. UK business however do not want a border and May is trying her luck with the Chequers proposal, ie, a different jurisdiction but without a border, this doesn't work in principle.

My feeling is that the EU will propose a Canada type trade deal without a border in Ireland but a border on mainland Europe. This will however mean a border between ROI and Europe, I don't know how disruptive that would be to ROI business. It will definitely be very disruptive to the like of Airbus, BMW etc.


You may be right and that could work no solution is without its downsides including staying in the EU. The country and business will always adapt


Business will adapt but doesn't mean they will be in a better place.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 06:25 PM

I think business will be better post brexit but some may not agree with me there are millions of opinions I think Corbyn would be an economic catastrophe but some people think the economy will boom under Corbyn. We live in a democracy and the majority opinion prevails.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Plenty of anti British bigotry from you shaggy but given you are a hard line republican I guess that's in your genes. One question ? Should there be a new referendum on a United ireland as the president of sein fein wants assuming the republican side won the referendum do you think the vote should be respected and implemented in full ?


No denial of what you really are Stan , just more mud slinging.

If we had a referendum we wouldn't ask someone who campaigned to remain to implement it for us. On the subject, we had an all Ireland vote in 1918 which resulted in an absolute landslide for Sinn Fein. Did Britain respect that result. I give you N. Ireland, created under threat of all out war.

We also wouldn't be making ludicrous demands of 27 other sovereign nations.

Hope this helps.

Any sign of those plans at all?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Plenty of anti British bigotry from you shaggy but given you are a hard line republican I guess that's in your genes. One question ? Should there be a new referendum on a United ireland as the president of sein fein wants assuming the republican side won the referendum do you think the vote should be respected and implemented in full ?


No denial of what you really are Stan , just more mud slinging.

If we had a referendum we wouldn't ask someone who campaigned to remain to implement it for us. On the subject, we had an all Ireland vote in 1918 which resulted in an absolute landslide for Sinn Fein. Did Britain respect that result. I give you N. Ireland, created under threat of all out war.

We also wouldn't be making ludicrous demands of 27 other sovereign nations.

Hope this helps.

Any sign of those plans at all?


1918 ???? Oh I see fairly recent then ? No one lives in the past quite like an Irish republican - can't stop long I am just going to enlist to fight World War One - hope I am not too late ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/08/18 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Plenty of anti British bigotry from you shaggy but given you are a hard line republican I guess that's in your genes. One question ? Should there be a new referendum on a United ireland as the president of sein fein wants assuming the republican side won the referendum do you think the vote should be respected and implemented in full ?


No denial of what you really are Stan , just more mud slinging.

If we had a referendum we wouldn't ask someone who campaigned to remain to implement it for us. On the subject, we had an all Ireland vote in 1918 which resulted in an absolute landslide for Sinn Fein. Did Britain respect that result. I give you N. Ireland, created under threat of all out war.

We also wouldn't be making ludicrous demands of 27 other sovereign nations.

Hope this helps.

Any sign of those plans at all?


1918 ???? Oh I see fairly recent then ? No one lives in the past quite like an Irish republican - can't stop long I am just going to enlist to fight World War One - hope I am not too late ?


From a man who claims britain owns Gibraltar because it was given to them in 1713.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also I notice you made no attempt to dispute anything I stated.

Brexit plan due anything soon?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/08/18 01:16 PM

The people of Gibraltar are free to detach from Britain at any time I think the last vote on it was almost exclusively to remain. Our Irish republican friend wants presumably to remove them from Gibraltar at a rifle butt ? Because that's the only way they are going under Spanish rule. Likewise Northern Ireland the majority want to remain British shaggy doesn't like that tough ! Rather than argue that point with me why not go into the loyalist areas and tell them they are wrong shaggy ? I won't hold my breath on that one. As for the brexit plan there is a 107 page document online I would bet money shaggy you have not even looked at the cover never mind read it. The only thought that circles your brain is the sins of the British hundreds of years ago everything and I mean EVERYTHING revolves around that. In some ways I envy you it must be nice to have everything laid out so simple I bet you don't have a care in the world
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/08/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The people of Gibraltar are free to detach from Britain at any time I think the last vote on it was almost exclusively to remain. Our Irish republican friend wants presumably to remove them from Gibraltar at a rifle butt ? Because that's the only way they are going under Spanish rule. Likewise Northern Ireland the majority want to remain British shaggy doesn't like that tough ! Rather than argue that point with me why not go into the loyalist areas and tell them they are wrong shaggy ? I won't hold my breath on that one. As for the brexit plan there is a 107 page document online I would bet money shaggy you have not even looked at the cover never mind read it. The only thought that circles your brain is the sins of the British hundreds of years ago everything and I mean EVERYTHING revolves around that. In some ways I envy you it must be nice to have everything laid out so simple I bet you don't have a care in the world


You do like your violence Stan.

I won't explain British colonial democracy to you again as obviously it is beyond you.

How is the assassination of the North Korean leader coming along. It must be refreshing to realise that you are even madder than Donald Trump.

Any sign of a Brexit plan or is it going to be just an endless series of anti Irish rants until Brexit in Name Only is rolled out as a victory for the Brexiteers?

Still, you will always have your blue passport.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/08/18 08:14 PM

As I say they are free to leave Britain anytime they like what shaggy does not like is they choose to remain part of Britain and that includes Ulster. Shaggy speaks for the minority in Ulster. If the people of Ulster the Falklands Gibraltar or anywhere else wanted to detach from Britain and it was democractic I am sure not only would it be accepted but Britain would support them in the transition. If that is an anti Irish rant then so be it
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/08/18 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As I say they are free to leave Britain anytime they like what shaggy does not like is they choose to remain part of Britain and that includes Ulster. Shaggy speaks for the minority in Ulster. If the people of Ulster the Falklands Gibraltar or anywhere else wanted to detach from Britain and it was democractic I am sure not only would it be accepted but Britain would support them in the transition. If that is an anti Irish rant then so be it


It's an anti-democracy rant, but it's not your first.

Ignoring history doesn't change the facts.

Brexit plans any time soon?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/08/18 09:51 PM

Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...477686.html?amp
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As I say they are free to leave Britain anytime they like what shaggy does not like is they choose to remain part of Britain and that includes Ulster. Shaggy speaks for the minority in Ulster. If the people of Ulster the Falklands Gibraltar or anywhere else wanted to detach from Britain and it was democractic I am sure not only would it be accepted but Britain would support them in the transition. If that is an anti Irish rant then so be it


It's an anti-democracy rant, but it's not your first.

Ignoring history doesn't change the facts.

Brexit plans any time soon?



The only anti democracy rant is those who want to overturn a democractic referendum. There is a published brexit plan online one hundred and seven pages I would bet money you have not read it or even understand the basics of what's in it. For the record I am not happy with the chequers agreement and it's looking like no deal or Canada type arrangements are the most likely now. Either would be fine by me. I am sure we will hear wailing about the Irish border let them wail they should not have been so stupid to be pawns in the EU,s game
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As I say they are free to leave Britain anytime they like what shaggy does not like is they choose to remain part of Britain and that includes Ulster. Shaggy speaks for the minority in Ulster. If the people of Ulster the Falklands Gibraltar or anywhere else wanted to detach from Britain and it was democractic I am sure not only would it be accepted but Britain would support them in the transition. If that is an anti Irish rant then so be it


It's an anti-democracy rant, but it's not your first.

Ignoring history doesn't change the facts.

Brexit plans any time soon?



The only anti democracy rant is those who want to overturn a democractic referendum. There is a published brexit plan online one hundred and seven pages I would bet money you have not read it or even understand the basics of what's in it. For the record I am not happy with the chequers agreement and it's looking like no deal or Canada type arrangements are the most likely now. Either would be fine by me. I am sure we will hear wailing about the Irish border let them wail they should not have been so stupid to be pawns in the EU,s game


The Irish are stupid. Tells us what you are really all about Stan.

Tell me Stan, are these people guilty of treachery? They are after all asking for a second referendum or a double referendum.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po...477686.html?amp

The madness that is Brexit.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 04:15 PM

I never said the Irish are stupid the Irish are exactly like the English some people can present their own thoughts some are incapable of it. Nothing to do with nationalities everything to do with the individual.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 04:17 PM

And constantly posting links from the guardian or independent is not a thought the very opposite it shows an empty vessel
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And constantly posting links from the guardian or independent is not a thought the very opposite it shows an empty vessel


It shows hard line brexiteers recommending a second vote on Brexit.

Are they guilty of treachery?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I never said the Irish are stupid the Irish are exactly like the English some people can present their own thoughts some are incapable of it. Nothing to do with nationalities everything to do with the individual.


"I am sure we will hear wailing about the Irish border. Let them wail, they should not have been so stupid".

Over to you.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/08/18 11:37 PM

Yeah but we are getting called stupid by a climate change denier, perspective required. Getting called stupid by someone willingly happy to ignore facts and let his own country go to crap because some russian linked stock broker wanted to make money on brexit and boris the buffoon wanted to lose patriotically.

I like your find there shaggy, hardliners calling for a second vote but now not cause they are messing everything up and all their lies are coming home. A shambles the tories, did nothing at all since the vote.nothing.nothing .nothing.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I never said the Irish are stupid the Irish are exactly like the English some people can present their own thoughts some are incapable of it. Nothing to do with nationalities everything to do with the individual.


"I am sure we will hear wailing about the Irish border. Let them wail, they should not have been so stupid".

Over to you.


I did not mean the Irish generally I meant those weaponising the Irish border to stop brexit. There is a campaign in Ireland to have their own referendum in EU membership so the notion all Irish think as you do holds no water in fact your views are probably the minority in Ulster.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Yeah but we are getting called stupid by a climate change denier, perspective required. Getting called stupid by someone willingly happy to ignore facts and let his own country go to crap because some russian linked stock broker wanted to make money on brexit and boris the buffoon wanted to lose patriotically.

I like your find there shaggy, hardliners calling for a second vote but now not cause they are messing everything up and all their lies are coming home. A shambles the tories, did nothing at all since the vote.nothing.nothing .nothing.


Complete and utter tripe the British people voted to leave the EU not a Russian stock broker. You live in a parallel universe but you are happy so I am happy for you you carry on enjoying yoyrself
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 07:02 PM

the people were mislead with lies, were targeted by foreign cyber attacks, mislead by buffoon politicians,influenced by cheating leaving campaign(shocking u let people cheat democracy and say nothing stan lol) and basically didn't have a clue about what they were doing. "what is the EU" was the most googled term in the uk the next day... now u see the mess it is, the absolute pointlessness and destructiveness of it all.. it will destroy the uk, boris called it a "meltdown" ..the police are now saying they can't ensure public safety...total mess and your politicians got nothing at all done ..nothing..created a brexit office that did nothing at all..no plan
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
the people were mislead with lies, were targeted by foreign cyber attacks, mislead by buffoon politicians,influenced by cheating leaving campaign(shocking u let people cheat democracy and say nothing stan lol) and basically didn't have a clue about what they were doing. "what is the EU" was the most googled term in the uk the next day... now u see the mess it is, the absolute pointlessness and destructiveness of it all.. it will destroy the uk, boris called it a "meltdown" ..the police are now saying they can't ensure public safety...total mess and your politicians got nothing at all done ..nothing..created a brexit office that did nothing at all..no plan


So you don't think things are good then ?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 07:10 PM

That dick Fox said no deal was likely, so no not good. The Uk will be in a "meltdown" and u will take us down with u probably..well done over there morons
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
That dick Fox said no deal was likely, so no not good. The Uk will be in a "meltdown" and u will take us down with u probably..well done over there morons


How's your prime ministers air blockade shaping up? If the UK is in meltdown I thought you would be pleased a major western country and supporter of Israel and the USA finished what's not to like about that if you are a far left anarchist ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 08:45 PM

Britain has record low employment and yesterday announced its exports are at the highest level in our history so if this is meltdown then long may it continue
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I never said the Irish are stupid the Irish are exactly like the English some people can present their own thoughts some are incapable of it. Nothing to do with nationalities everything to do with the individual.


"I am sure we will hear wailing about the Irish border. Let them wail, they should not have been so stupid".

Over to you.


I did not mean the Irish generally I meant those weaponising the Irish border to stop brexit. There is a campaign in Ireland to have their own referendum in EU membership so the notion all Irish think as you do holds no water in fact your views are probably the minority in Ulster.


I have reread your post and strangely enough it doesn't mention only those Irish who you claim are weaponising the Irish border to stop Brexit. I think we all know your views on the Irish Stan, you let it slip every now and then.

The audacity of Irish people living on the border being worried about what will happen to the Irish border after Brexit.

There already was a referendum in N.ireland and we voted remain. It will be excellent if we get a rerun. Reruns are all the rage with brexiteers now, they all want a second referendum. I notice you have ignored that. Though it must hurt when even your most ardent brexiteers think there should be a rerun.

I see Liam Fox is now talking about a no deal Brexit. That's quite a come down from it being the easiest trade deal in history.

That's Liam baffled, Gove jumping ship and Farage, Johnson and Davis have all abandoned Brexit. Now that's real leadership.

Any sign of a Brexit plan from anyone? Even one from you would do now Stan.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/08/18 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Britain has record low employment and yesterday announced its exports are at the highest level in our history so if this is meltdown then long may it continue


You do realise you haven't left the EU yet.

Though I think we all know now that you won't really be leaving anyway.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 09:43 AM

Yeah see what exports are like when the channel tunnel is backed up for 2 days.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Britain has record low employment and yesterday announced its exports are at the highest level in our history so if this is meltdown then long may it continue


You do realise you haven't left the EU yet.

Though I think we all know now that you won't really be leaving anyway.


That demonstrates a lack of understanding (nothing new here) business and economics is based on future confidence we are close to six months from leaving the EU. Do you really think the stock market employment, investment, exports would be soaring if business and the markets thought we were heading for a disaster ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
Yeah see what exports are like when the channel tunnel is backed up for 2 days.


Channel tunnel and the ports are regularly blocked with strikes and lorries backed up (normally on the french side) the sky does not fall in. Complete twaddle
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
Yeah see what exports are like when the channel tunnel is backed up for 2 days.


Channel tunnel and the ports are regularly blocked with strikes and lorries backed up (normally on the french side) the sky does not fall in. Complete twaddle


Maybe you are right, maybe not, that's the whole problem, nobody knows. Best thing is UK crashes out on the 29th March, then everybody will know exactly.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 02:26 PM

No one knows the future Vish we all have opinions there is no such thing as the correct opinion around politics. Everyone thinks they know best. We go with what the majority think not perfect no but the alternative is we go with what the minority think
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No one knows the future Vish we all have opinions there is no such thing as the correct opinion around politics. Everyone thinks they know best. We go with what the majority think not perfect no but the alternative is we go with what the minority think


The DUP in N.Ireland have no problem going with what the minority's think when it comes to Brexit.

Is that acceptable?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No one knows the future Vish we all have opinions there is no such thing as the correct opinion around politics. Everyone thinks they know best. We go with what the majority think not perfect no but the alternative is we go with what the minority think


Before the referendum all the leavers said the EU will do a trade deal and there won't be hard borders for goods (easiest trade deal in history according to Farage, Fox etc), what if you don't get that? Then you need to know what the majority wants, ie border with the EU or stay as is, no? Is this what you mean?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/08/18 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No one knows the future Vish we all have opinions there is no such thing as the correct opinion around politics. Everyone thinks they know best. We go with what the majority think not perfect no but the alternative is we go with what the minority think


Before the referendum all the leavers said the EU will do a trade deal and there won't be hard borders for goods (easiest trade deal in history according to Farage, Fox etc), what if you don't get that? Then you need to know what the majority wants, ie border with the EU or stay as is, no? Is this what you mean?


The trade deal has not been abandoned yet in fact I think it will happen albeit I would rather we went WTO or Canada. We leave EU membership is what we voted for that was on the ballot paper in effect. What shape it is, is up for grabs but the fact we are no longer an EU member is critical. Another referedum would be crazy and it would not be accepted by the public as legitimate.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/08/18 01:03 AM

Be crazy not to have one since the last one was illegal , a cheated result as has been proven. I see the ex pats in europe have launched this case in the courts..how any judge could rule otherwise would be completely shocking.. Caught cheating,no other solution but to have another vote but this time a legal one where the leave campaign don't cheat.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/08/18 07:10 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
Be crazy not to have one since the last one was illegal , a cheated result as has been proven. I see the ex pats in europe have launched this case in the courts..how any judge could rule otherwise would be completely shocking.. Caught cheating,no other solution but to have another vote but this time a legal one where the leave campaign don't cheat.


And if we still vote leave? Would you accept it then? How do you think another vote would affect our (and Irelandís) economy?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 03:38 AM

no way would you vote to leave , and if u leave without a deal then its a complete disaster ..it will tank both our economies, its the stupidest thing ever, like literally ever. U gonna destroy society , any sector u look at is looking at disaster. Gonna go from a world leader to a bloody 18th century sea faring economy, exporting [oops] to canada and australia by fecking boat!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 07:12 AM

That little rant (none of which will happen) doesnít answer my question. What if we vote leave again? Will you accept the democratic vote?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 08:41 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By EMP
Be crazy not to have one since the last one was illegal , a cheated result as has been proven. I see the ex pats in europe have launched this case in the courts..how any judge could rule otherwise would be completely shocking.. Caught cheating,no other solution but to have another vote but this time a legal one where the leave campaign don't cheat.


And if we still vote leave? Would you accept it then? How do you think another vote would affect our (and Irelandís) economy?


If we voted leave again then emp would say leave cheated then we would have another vote and another until we voted remain. Then of course there would be no cheating.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:12 AM

I'm not sure if leave cheated this time round but there are reports of it. Could just be remain propaganda for all I know. But I do think their campaign was based on lies tinged with racism. But that's just my view.

And I think you're right. He probably would claim they cheated again, and again, and again. Where does it stop? We chose to leave, rightly or wrongly and the worst thing for the country would be to drag it out or to vote again. We may no be better off out but we'll be even less better off with all this dragging on.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:18 AM

At the last general election many thousands of students voted twice or more in marginal seats that really was cheating. But there are no calls to re-run the last election
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:48 AM

Yeah it goes on. There are always irregularities and some who'll try and cheat the system.
Posted by: redordead13

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 05:04 PM

I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


Blue passports
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


£300m to the nhs.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 05:22 PM

Something to moan about for the rest of our lives!!
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


£300m to the nhs.


£350m wilki.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3EIogaEwxY
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


Presumably you think the war of independence was a waste of time ?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:31 PM

The Will Smith one?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:31 PM

the £350m has been delivered and more but not if you never read the news. Theresa May made an announcement just a month ago now and prior to that a further £4b was added it's about £500m delivered
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
The Will Smith one?


Don't tax your brain too much yeah will smith
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:39 PM

We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive!
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive!


Great film but that alien in the mothership in charge of the docking was the thickest bloke I have ever seen
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
the £350m has been delivered and more but not if you never read the news. Theresa May made an announcement just a month ago now and prior to that a further £4b was added it's about £500m delivered


How can it have been delivered when weíre still in the eu? More reason not to leave if we can already give that to the nhs.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
the £350m has been delivered and more but not if you never read the news. Theresa May made an announcement just a month ago now and prior to that a further £4b was added it's about £500m delivered


How can it have been delivered when weíre still in the eu? More reason not to leave if we can already give that to the nhs.


She also said it would be part of the Brexit dividend which we were told afterwards will not exist.

Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
the £350m has been delivered and more but not if you never read the news. Theresa May made an announcement just a month ago now and prior to that a further £4b was added it's about £500m delivered


How can it have been delivered when weíre still in the eu? More reason not to leave if we can already give that to the nhs.


The funding for the EU is over 10 years and the government allocates over that period the current assumption is there will be more money for the NHS when we leave. Its all in the press £4b then a further £20b 10 of which is the money we no longer give the EU 10 is extra tax / growth. Not my opinion its a fact it amounts to £500m a week for the NHS
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:02 PM

assumption lol..yeah right , you going back to thatcher times
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
the £350m has been delivered and more but not if you never read the news. Theresa May made an announcement just a month ago now and prior to that a further £4b was added it's about £500m delivered


How can it have been delivered when weíre still in the eu? More reason not to leave if we can already give that to the nhs.


The funding for the EU is over 10 years and the government allocates over that period the current assumption is there will be more money for the NHS when we leave. Its all in the press £4b then a further £20b 10 of which is the money we no longer give the EU 10 is extra tax / growth. Not my opinion its a fact it amounts to £500m a week for the NHS


You may have been misinformed . The Brexit dividend will not exist.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2018/06/there-no-brexit-dividend-spend-nhs

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-dividend-nhs-obr-fiscal-
sustainability-report-a8450731.html

https://news.sky.com/story/mays-claim-of-brexit-dividend-for-nhs-dismissed-as-tosh-11407561
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:28 PM

Great to see some links from the normal anti brexit liberal left newspapers I have not nor will I ever open one shaggy just so you know. If you ever have a thought of your own one day let me know
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:48 PM

yeah but the blinkers on and read the red top crap like the sun and the mail
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Great to see some links from the normal anti brexit liberal left newspapers I have not nor will I ever open one shaggy just so you know. If you ever have a thought of your own one day let me know


I know you don't open them Stan. Brexiteers are sick of experts and reality of course.

Keep burying your head in the sand, but the clock is ticking.
Posted by: redordead13

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 16/08/18 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


Presumably you think the war of independence was a waste of time ?



So were you a colony of the EU? News to me. I thought it was a commercial alliance and union of friendly nations, not an empire seizing lands crazy
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By redordead13
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By redordead13
I don't have a horse in this race, but what do you stand to actually gain by leaving? Seems like madness to me.


Presumably you think the war of independence was a waste of time ?


So were you a colony of the EU? News to me. I thought it was a commercial alliance and union of friendly nations, not an empire seizing lands crazy


For some it's the battle for Britain laugh

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/100459...-michel-barnier
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 10:10 AM

Tally ho

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zyBLd1eRgts
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 10:24 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdwB1lJ4AIw
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 10:35 AM




grin grin grin
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 10:37 AM

Defence cuts.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 06:17 PM

I would have thought £24 billion more a year on the national health service is good news even for an Irish republican it seems not.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 17/08/18 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I would have thought £24 billion more a year on the national health service is good news even for an Irish republican it seems not.


No answers anymore Stan?

You said it was a Brexit windfall, despite the fact you haven't left the EU yet. The fact that even the tories are saying that there will be no Brexit dividend also seems to have passed you by. Remarkably you also seemed to have missed the fact that Theresa May said there will have to be tax rises to pay for the NHS spending.

Also do you realise that you are now in direct conflict with the architects of Brexit.
You are happy to accept the Chequers Agreement (Brexit in name only) unlike Boris, Davis and JRM.
Maybe you aren't a brexiteer after all, but you may have betrayed the will of the people.

But at least you have seen the light
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 04:30 PM

I am not a fan of links but make of this what you will

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/9794-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-reaction-barnier-comments
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I would have thought £24 billion more a year on the national health service is good news even for an Irish republican it seems not.


Itíll never happen Stan and you know it.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I would have thought £24 billion more a year on the national health service is good news even for an Irish republican it seems not.


Itíll never happen Stan and you know it.


I don't control treasury finances so no I don't know. But I thought the funds were already commited certaintly the £4 billion has been delivered and I understand the £20 billion has been commited by the gvernment. Do you you know different because I only know what's in the media
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 07:13 PM

All I know is what was on the side of a bus was a lie. I imagine that when we agree our deal weíll still be paying into the eu as Norway do for example (something like 80% of the membership fee per head I think?) so the only way weíll get that extra money is through taxes as the government has already said.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
All I know is what was on the side of a bus was a lie. I imagine that when we agree our deal weíll still be paying into the eu as Norway do for example (something like 80% of the membership fee per head I think?) so the only way weíll get that extra money is through taxes as the government has already said.


Don't think the Norway option is acceptable to leavers as you still have freedom of movement.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/08/18 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
All I know is what was on the side of a bus was a lie. I imagine that when we agree our deal weíll still be paying into the eu as Norway do for example (something like 80% of the membership fee per head I think?) so the only way weíll get that extra money is through taxes as the government has already said.


As far as I can remember it said we can spend what we give to the EU on the NHS whats a lie about that ? It's perfectly possible. We don't what the deal is yet I doubt very much it will be a Norway type deal but let's see. As for lies no one told more than Osbourne and project fear which turned out to be entirely untrue. As chancellor he would have known it was not true which was why may sacked him as her first action as PM. But whatever who cares ? It's the future that matters and it's about time all sides concentrated on that and worked together for the benefit of the nation. I know I am naive expecting that
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 07:36 AM

Come on Stan. The people telling that yarn had no power to deliver what they were saying. It was a lie to fool the stupid into voting their way. They could just as easily said the public could have it back as a tax rebate or that itíd be spent on anything. It was propaganda to win votes and was never going to be delivered. Iím sure the remain side did the same sort of things but I donít remember them pasting shitte on a bus?

As for who cares, all those who are going to be out of pocket for no reason based on some nuggets putting lies on the side of a bus who had no power to deliver what they were promising. Then to top it all off all those doing the lying have now fukked off into the wilderness to leave us all to it. Couldnít make this shitte up.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 08:06 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Come on Stan. The people telling that yarn had no power to deliver what they were saying. It was a lie to fool the stupid into voting their way. They could just as easily said the public could have it back as a tax rebate or that itíd be spent on anything. It was propaganda to win votes and was never going to be delivered. Iím sure the remain side did the same sort of things but I donít remember them pasting shitte on a bus?

As for who cares, all those who are going to be out of pocket for no reason based on some nuggets putting lies on the side of a bus who had no power to deliver what they were promising. Then to top it all off all those doing the lying have now fukked off into the wilderness to leave us all to it. Couldnít make this shitte up.



The insanity of Brexit in a nutshell. We lied to you in order to get you to vote leave. But who cares?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 08:30 AM

Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:17 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


The problem with leave lying is that they then had to deliver on their lies.

And that's when the fun began.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


That would be david Cameron did he not publically promise (on several occasions) the government would deliver on people's choice. He was the leader of the serving government. He chose to resign on the morning after the vote. He was the one who allowed the vote my opinion he should have been prepared to deal with either option. That said I am glad he resigned when he did.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


That would be david Cameron did he not publically promise (on several occasions) the government would deliver on people's choice. He was the leader of the serving government. He chose to resign on the morning after the vote. He was the one who allowed the vote my opinion he should have been prepared to deal with either option. That said I am glad he resigned when he did.


He resigned to screw Boris over. Boris' plan all along was to pick up the pieces win or lose. Don't delude yourself that he actually believed in what he was selling. Unfortunately for him Cameron had the measure of him as do most of the British public.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 10:25 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


The problem with leave lying is that they then had to deliver on their lies.

And that's when the fun began.


They weren't in a position to deliver on it though. Why were people so stupid to think that they would be?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 11:07 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


The problem with leave lying is that they then had to deliver on their lies.

And that's when the fun began.


They weren't in a position to deliver on it though. Why were people so stupid to think that they would be?


I think that's a question you would need to ask a brexiteer.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Both side lied or embellished the truth if you like. I suppose that's what politicians do. But surely to make leaving a little bit more plausible, it would've been nice to have someone who could actually deliver what they were promising i.e someone in power?


That would be david Cameron did he not publically promise (on several occasions) the government would deliver on people's choice. He was the leader of the serving government. He chose to resign on the morning after the vote. He was the one who allowed the vote my opinion he should have been prepared to deal with either option. That said I am glad he resigned when he did.


Having all information both internally and the EU, only somebody crazy could be prepared to deal with leave. Look at May, she came up with a half in half out plan and nobody is happy. She can choose a side but her party is divided in more or less half, therefore no majority. What a mess
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 12:18 PM

If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


Cherish your blue passports as you sit in an NHS A&E ward wondering where your £350 million a week went.

No denial of the fact that you were lied to by brexiteers. Just conveniently ignored. Any old berxit will do now, even if it damages the country.

So 17.4 million is the majority of a 45.7 million voting population. I can see now how you were easily fooled. Do stop making things up Stan
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


That 17.4m equates to less than 40% of the population so IF it all goes tits up, then we'll see what the actual majority of people think.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


That 17.4m equates to less than 40% of the population so IF it all goes tits up, then we'll see what the actual majority of people think.


It will all be the Eu's fault then for giving the UK a bad deal.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


That 17.4m equates to less than 40% of the population so IF it all goes tits up, then we'll see what the actual majority of people think.


Do you only class an election result as valid if 100% of voters vote for it? The turnout for the referedum was a record turnout far more than we get in general elections. I also find it odd British people wanting the country to do badly to prove themselves right. I have just looked at the last two posts nothing said of any significance or reason just slagging off because the national vote (over two years ago now) did not go to your liking. Tough ! If you want to rewrite history campaign for something useful like replaying the 2018 champions league final you might have more luck with that.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


That 17.4m equates to less than 40% of the population so IF it all goes tits up, then we'll see what the actual majority of people think.


Do you only class an election result as valid if 100% of voters vote for it? The turnout for the referedum was a record turnout far more than we get in general elections. I also find it odd British people wanting the country to do badly to prove themselves right. I have just looked at the last two posts nothing said of any significance or reason just slagging off because the national vote (over two years ago now) did not go to your liking. Tough ! If you want to rewrite history campaign for something useful like replaying the 2018 champions league final you might have more luck with that.



I think we were correcting your assertion that the majority of your countrymen will be happy with brexit when the actual number is less than 40% of the population. You are just making stuff up now and passing if off as fact Stan. I'm not British so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Also I'm not sure how many of that 40% will be happy with the Chequers Agreement which is as we all know Brexit in Name Only.

But you will have your shiny new blue passport. I suppose this would be a bad time to remind you that you could've had any colour you liked whilst in the EU, even blue.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
If we leave the EU I will be happy and so will the majority of my countrymen all 17.4 million of us the biggest vote for anything in British history. You three are not happy how terrible whatever shall we do ?


That 17.4m equates to less than 40% of the population so IF it all goes tits up, then we'll see what the actual majority of people think.


Do you only class an election result as valid if 100% of voters vote for it? The turnout for the referedum was a record turnout far more than we get in general elections. I also find it odd British people wanting the country to do badly to prove themselves right. I have just looked at the last two posts nothing said of any significance or reason just slagging off because the national vote (over two years ago now) did not go to your liking. Tough ! If you want to rewrite history campaign for something useful like replaying the 2018 champions league final you might have more luck with that.


As I've said many, many times, I accept the result (after more than a little moaning). But don't go quoting that 17.4m people is the majority of people in this country as it's not true. I think there were something like 16.8m that voted for remain and add those to the rest that didn't or couldn't vote and there you have the majority of people in this country.

17.4m people was a very small majority of those who voted. Big difference.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 07:17 PM

It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Well you have accepted Brexit in name only. By the time the negotiations are finished what the rest of us have to accept won't differ much from what we have now.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Exactly. The majority of those who voted NOT the majority of the country.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:20 PM

You would like another referendum I take it?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:33 PM

No. I want them to get the fukk on with it and get a deal done.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 09:57 PM

election law certainly doesn't seem to matter
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Well you have accepted Brexit in name only. By the time the negotiations are finished what the rest of us have to accept won't differ much from what we have now.


The chequers agreement meets the red lines as far as I am concerned I have no idea what you are talking about. I agree there won't be much difference we will look back and wonder what the fuss was about.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Exactly. The majority of those who voted NOT the majority of the country.


Well we don't know that they might be ! as many could not be bothered to vote and some were not eligiable to vote you are assuming they all would have voted remain you don't know that. What we know for sure is it was the biggest turnout in history and when the votes were counted more voted to leave or are you disputing that ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/08/18 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Well you have accepted Brexit in name only. By the time the negotiations are finished what the rest of us have to accept won't differ much from what we have now.


The chequers agreement meets the red lines as far as I am concerned I have no idea what you are talking about. I agree there won't be much difference we will look back and wonder what the fuss was about.


Well Farage, Davis and Johnson don't agree with you. They were the main architects of Brexit and they see the Chequers Agreement as a sellout.

But you probably know better than them.

Brexit in Name Only.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 07:33 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It was the majority of who voted that's all that matters in elections. More people want brexit in Britain than don't. That is the reality and I am afraid you are going to have to accept that unless you are one of those who wants another referedum ?


Exactly. The majority of those who voted NOT the majority of the country.


Well we don't know that they might be ! as many could not be bothered to vote and some were not eligiable to vote you are assuming they all would have voted remain you don't know that. What we know for sure is it was the biggest turnout in history and when the votes were counted more voted to leave or are you disputing that ?


No we donít know. But what we do know for sure is that 17.4m people are NOT the majority of the country.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 12:24 PM

They are the majority of the voters though. I cannot think of any election ever where all the country votes otherwise babies would be casting their vote.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
They are the majority of the voters though. I cannot think of any election ever where all the country votes otherwise babies would be casting their vote.


You are still wrong.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
They are the majority of the voters though. I cannot think of any election ever where all the country votes otherwise babies would be casting their vote.


Well say that then as they're not the majority of the country as you said.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
They are the majority of the voters though. I cannot think of any election ever where all the country votes otherwise babies would be casting their vote.


Well say that then as they're not the majority of the country as you said.


In matters of democracy I think they are the majority they may also be in number for all we know. However if the only argument left for remaining in the EU is every person (including babies) did not vote to leave the EU then it shows the debate is pretty much over. We are leaving the EU and that's the way it is. I also see Dominic rabb is to have a six hour meeting with barnier who knows what's to be discussed but this very much sounds like thrashing out the finer detail of a deal that's taking shape.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 03:11 PM

I'm not arguing that we should remain. What I'm arguing and still can't seem to grasp is that you said that 17.4m people were the majority of the country which they're not. They are the majority of those who voted. Big difference.

There are roughly 45.77m people registered to vote which makes 17.4m not even a majority of electorate. This changes nothing and I don't want to change the vote because of it but get your comments right in the future.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
I'm not arguing that we should remain. What I'm arguing and still can't seem to grasp is that you said that 17.4m people were the majority of the country which they're not. They are the majority of those who voted. Big difference.

There are roughly 45.77m people registered to vote which makes 17.4m not even a majority of electorate. This changes nothing and I don't want to change the vote because of it but get your comments right in the future.


Ok I will say the majority of those who voted. By the way how do you know the large number who could not be bothered to vote are remain supporters given you seem to know conclusively the majority of people do not want to leave the EU?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
I'm not arguing that we should remain. What I'm arguing and still can't seem to grasp is that you said that 17.4m people were the majority of the country which they're not. They are the majority of those who voted. Big difference.

There are roughly 45.77m people registered to vote which makes 17.4m not even a majority of electorate. This changes nothing and I don't want to change the vote because of it but get your comments right in the future.


Ok I will say the majority of those who voted. By the way how do you know the large number who could not be bothered to vote are remain supporters given you seem to know conclusively the majority of people do not want to leave the EU?


I don't know how they voted and don't think I've said conclusively that they wouldn't vote to leave. Just saying that it wasn't the majority of the country, just those who voted.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 04:47 PM

Well I am glad we cleared that up then. I think once we leave the EU in march people will move on from brexit despite George Osbournes lurid predictions the country is doing pretty well and the sun is shining. A report in the press is that London is the major city in the world for investment and other major cities in England are in the top 20 in the world. Not bad for an economy going off a cliff. I was rather hoping Vish or shaggy would by now have shown us a link to it but they must have been busy elsewhere. Once we leave the EU the establishment knows its over and you will find all these horror stories will dry up much to the sorry of some
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am glad we cleared that up then. I think once we leave the EU in march people will move on from brexit despite George Osbournes lurid predictions the country is doing pretty well and the sun is shining. A report in the press is that London is the major city in the world for investment and other major cities in England are in the top 20 in the world. Not bad for an economy going off a cliff. I was rather hoping Vish or shaggy would by now have shown us a link to it but they must have been busy elsewhere. Once we leave the EU the establishment knows its over and you will find all these horror stories will dry up much to the sorry of some


I don't think you have left yet, have you? It's good that the high inflation due to the depreciation of the GBP especially on petroleum products is not hurting you too much.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 31/08/18 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am glad we cleared that up then. I think once we leave the EU in march people will move on from brexit despite George Osbournes lurid predictions the country is doing pretty well and the sun is shining. A report in the press is that London is the major city in the world for investment and other major cities in England are in the top 20 in the world. Not bad for an economy going off a cliff. I was rather hoping Vish or shaggy would by now have shown us a link to it but they must have been busy elsewhere. Once we leave the EU the establishment knows its over and you will find all these horror stories will dry up much to the sorry of some


I think weíll get a deal in the end and hopefully weíll do well. I think itís up to us as a country how well we do and thereís no point keeping on moaning about it or we will end up destroying ourselves. Itís not all doom and gloom just yet.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/09/18 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am glad we cleared that up then. I think once we leave the EU in march people will move on from brexit despite George Osbournes lurid predictions the country is doing pretty well and the sun is shining. A report in the press is that London is the major city in the world for investment and other major cities in England are in the top 20 in the world. Not bad for an economy going off a cliff. I was rather hoping Vish or shaggy would by now have shown us a link to it but they must have been busy elsewhere. Once we leave the EU the establishment knows its over and you will find all these horror stories will dry up much to the sorry of some


I don't think you have left yet, have you? It's good that the high inflation due to the depreciation of the GBP especially on petroleum products is not hurting you too much.


I can honestly say things have never been better in my lifetime in Britain. Yes there are problems (there always are) but overall things are going very well. And again today the mood music is a deal with the EU is very close some of the press are reporting by October.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/09/18 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am glad we cleared that up then. I think once we leave the EU in march people will move on from brexit despite George Osbournes lurid predictions the country is doing pretty well and the sun is shining. A report in the press is that London is the major city in the world for investment and other major cities in England are in the top 20 in the world. Not bad for an economy going off a cliff. I was rather hoping Vish or shaggy would by now have shown us a link to it but they must have been busy elsewhere. Once we leave the EU the establishment knows its over and you will find all these horror stories will dry up much to the sorry of some


I don't think you have left yet, have you? It's good that the high inflation due to the depreciation of the GBP especially on petroleum products is not hurting you too much.


I can honestly say things have never been better in my lifetime in Britain. Yes there are problems (there always are) but overall things are going very well. And again today the mood music is a deal with the EU is very close some of the press are reporting by October.


Food banks don't bother you?

Thousands dying after being declared fit for work doesn't tug at your heart strings?

Zero hours contracts don't bother you?

A government embroiled in a civil war doesn't cost you a thought?

Brexit in Name Only doesn't concern you?

Totally delusional Stan.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 12:48 PM

As I said not everything is right or perfect. But overall the country is doing very well. I agree about wage compression and zero hour contracts which is directly due to gross over supply of manual labour. I am glad shaggy you are concerned now you will see why me and millions like me voted for brexit and control over our laws. But we are not in the huge recession some predicted and many remainers hoped for the country has record employment one of the highest inward investments in the developed world and London is actually the highest in the world. Also you keep saying chequers is brexit in name only can you provide detail with reference to the appropriate section in the chequers agreement so I can examine your assertions because it was not my reading. I know there is not a hope in hell of you answering that so please feel free to change the subject as per normal
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As I said not everything is right or perfect. But overall the country is doing very well. I agree about wage compression and zero hour contracts which is directly due to gross over supply of manual labour. I am glad shaggy you are concerned now you will see why me and millions like me voted for brexit and control over our laws. But we are not in the huge recession some predicted and many remainers hoped for the country has record employment one of the highest inward investments in the developed world and London is actually the highest in the world. Also you keep saying chequers is brexit in name only can you provide detail with reference to the appropriate section in the chequers agreement so I can examine your assertions because it was not my reading. I know there is not a hope in hell of you answering that so please feel free to change the subject as per normal


I think you should be concerned at your ignorance of what is going on around you but as long as Stan's OK that's all that matters.

Nice of you to blame wage compression on EU citizens and not greedy employers. Tell me who is driving the wage compression in the public service?

You are in denial Stan.

You do realise that Johnson and Davis resigned from the government because of the contents of the Chequers Agreement. Of course you do but if you recognise that you have to accept that the Brexit you sought is never going to happen. But as this stage any Brexit will do to save face.

By all means keep deluding yourself if that gets you through the day. Just don't expect the rest of us to buy into your fantasy world.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 07:16 PM

I read the chequers agreement there are parts of it I am concerned about yes but overall I can live with it. You keep saying it's brexit in name only I asked you to explain you have not done so. A few insults then telling me Johnson and Davies resigned. We all know you have no knowledge of even the most basic detail hence the slogans and links. I am no expert either but at least I try to be informed you don't even try
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I read the chequers agreement there are parts of it I am concerned about yes but overall I can live with it. You keep saying it's brexit in name only I asked you to explain you have not done so. A few insults then telling me Johnson and Davies resigned. We all know you have no knowledge of even the most basic detail hence the slogans and links. I am no expert either but at least I try to be informed you don't even try


You do know who Johnson and Davies are don't you?

Here's what one of them thinks of the Chequers Agreement

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics...925696.html?amp

But as always you probably know better than everyone.

Oh and here's Barnier's response to said Chequers Agreement.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/michel-ba...for-eu-11488846

Still feeling fabulous Stan?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 08:06 PM

Shaggy I am neither Boris Johnson or David Davies my brain is not a sub set of whatever they say or think. I can actually think for myself why not give it a try sometime ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/09/18 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy I am neither Boris Johnson or David Davies my brain is not a sub set of whatever they say or think. I can actually think for myself why not give it a try sometime ?


Haha, if you move your Brexit goalposts much further Stan you are going to be off the pitch.

Brexit means a sort of Brexit, doesn't sound as well.

It is interesting to see that you are starting to realise that the Brexit they sold you isn't deliverable.

But you will have your blue passport.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/09/18 11:49 AM

Well shaggy at least I can formulate an opinion based on my own personal reasoning I may be completely wrong but I at least am capable of that.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/09/18 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well shaggy at least I can formulate an opinion based on my own personal reasoning I may be completely wrong but I at least am capable of that.


An opinion formulated on the basis of a false promise on the side of a bus and undeliverable promises from Boris and Farage. You are very astute Stan.

But you will get your blue passport.

I see the civil war within the Tory party has erupted again today.

Strong and stable indeed.

Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/09/18 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well shaggy at least I can formulate an opinion based on my own personal reasoning I may be completely wrong but I at least am capable of that.


An opinion formulated on the basis of a false promise on the side of a bus and undeliverable promises from Boris and Farage. You are very astute Stan.

But you will get your blue passport.

I see the civil war within the Tory party has erupted again today.

Strong and stable indeed.



Just a few insults nothing of substance. Hey ho ! yes the tories are at war but so are labour our politics is a joke I make no secret of that. But thats nothing to do with brexit. If we look to Ulster though things go to another level of conflict how long is it since you had a government ? we are not as barmy as you yet but we might get there.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/09/18 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well shaggy at least I can formulate an opinion based on my own personal reasoning I may be completely wrong but I at least am capable of that.


An opinion formulated on the basis of a false promise on the side of a bus and undeliverable promises from Boris and Farage. You are very astute Stan.

But you will get your blue passport.

I see the civil war within the Tory party has erupted again today.

Strong and stable indeed.



Just a few insults nothing of substance. Hey ho ! yes the tories are at war but so are labour our politics is a joke I make no secret of that. But thats nothing to do with brexit. If we look to Ulster though things go to another level of conflict how long is it since you had a government ? we are not as barmy as you yet but we might get there.


Stan if you can't distinguish between reality and fantasy I am not to blame.
You are now actively supporting a Brexit plan that has been trashed by every major brexiteer and yet still you maintain that it is good enough for you. Oh dear

You now accept that your politics is a joke yet you said in another post that things in Britain have never been better in your lifetime. Oh dear.

As for N. Ireland, the British and Irish Governments are meant to be honest brokers. This was agreed in the Good Friday Agreement. How exactly can the British government claim to be honest brokers in any talks here when the DUP have them by the balls. Oh dear
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 10:14 AM

You keep saying "oh dear" that's your safety prop that you are enable to express an opinion of your own. I agree with some brexiteers about the chequers agreement as I have said many times I don't like it myself. I actually think chequers might be rejected by parliament. However in my opinion (it is possible shaggy to have opinions of your own without copying what famous people think) chequers given the politics in Britain is probably the best option. It is quite possible for the country to be doing well with lousy politics shaggy politicians don't drive the country they don't invest or create industries. What you really need to do is get off these forums and do some educating yourself go to the library take time out to do some reading. It will be to your benefit you clearly are passionate but Unfortunetly can't articulate your own opinions. I have lost count of the links and person x or y said this or that. Think for yourself
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You keep saying "oh dear" that's your safety prop that you are enable to express an opinion of your own. I agree with some brexiteers about the chequers agreement as I have said many times I don't like it myself. I actually think chequers might be rejected by parliament. However in my opinion (it is possible shaggy to have opinions of your own without copying what famous people think) chequers given the politics in Britain is probably the best option. It is quite possible for the country to be doing well with lousy politics shaggy politicians don't drive the country they don't invest or create industries. What you really need to do is get off these forums and do some educating yourself go to the library take time out to do some reading. It will be to your benefit you clearly are passionate but Unfortunetly can't articulate your own opinions. I have lost count of the links and person x or y said this or that. Think for yourself


Stan make your mind up. You wanted a no deal brexit and now you want Brexit in Name only.

Reading the Daily Express every day is not educating yourself that is brain washing yourself.

Instead of calling me names why don't you try and explain how your vision of brexit in name only is best for the country and Farage, Johnson and Davis are all wrong.

The fact that Britain is experiencing poor economic growth and sterling has been severely weakened seems to be lost on you. Add to that failed austerity, zero hour contracts an NHS in crisis, poor wages, a government involved in an open civil war and I cannot see how you can come to the conclusion that things have never been better in your lifetime.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 01:39 PM

Shaggy the reason we are experiencing austerity is due to the high deficit browns labour government left us that was six years before the brexit vote just another example of your lack of education. My view on brexit which you don't seem to grasp is that I don't agree with chequers but given the politics it's probably the most pragmatic solution. The important thing is we get out. The alternative to chequers is no deal which again I can live with. Time is running out fast and so on balance chequers is probably the least worst path. That's my opinion I HAVE AN OPINION not boris johnsons or other politicians MINE and the day I am too stupid to work an opinion out for myself is the time to pack in.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the reason we are experiencing austerity is due to the high deficit browns labour government left us that was six years before the brexit vote just another example of your lack of education. My view on brexit which you don't seem to grasp is that I don't agree with chequers but given the politics it's probably the most pragmatic solution. The important thing is we get out. The alternative to chequers is no deal which again I can live with. Time is running out fast and so on balance chequers is probably the least worst path. That's my opinion I HAVE AN OPINION not boris johnsons or other politicians MINE and the day I am too stupid to work an opinion out for myself is the time to pack in.


You do realise that the Tories have borrowed more than labour when in government.

We also all know how well austerity has worked. Britains national debt has increased by over £500 billion since Osborne took office in 2010. Another of those pesky facts making an absolute nonsense of your argument.

As for your opinion on brexit it is not an opinion it is a series's of opinions depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Any brexit will do and you prove that.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the reason we are experiencing austerity is due to the high deficit browns labour government left us that was six years before the brexit vote just another example of your lack of education. My view on brexit which you don't seem to grasp is that I don't agree with chequers but given the politics it's probably the most pragmatic solution. The important thing is we get out. The alternative to chequers is no deal which again I can live with. Time is running out fast and so on balance chequers is probably the least worst path. That's my opinion I HAVE AN OPINION not boris johnsons or other politicians MINE and the day I am too stupid to work an opinion out for myself is the time to pack in.


You do realise that the Tories have borrowed more than labour when in government.

We also all know how well austerity has worked. Britains national debt has increased by over £500 billion since Osborne took office in 2010. Another of those pesky facts making an absolute nonsense of your argument.

As for your opinion on brexit it is not an opinion it is a series's of opinions depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Any brexit will do and you prove that.


Of course the Tories have borrowed more they inherited a deficit put 10 years borrowing 150 billion a year to keep afloat you will soon increase borrowing. Deficit is not the same as borrowing again your lack of education is clear. The deficit is like your wages vs your outgoings your borrowing is your overdraft. As for opinions on brexit there are plenty unless you are waiting for the day everyone in the UK has excatly the same thought in which case you will be waiting a long time. I have an opinion it's mine and mine alone and I worked it out myself I may be wrong but unlike some I can at least form an opinion
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the reason we are experiencing austerity is due to the high deficit browns labour government left us that was six years before the brexit vote just another example of your lack of education. My view on brexit which you don't seem to grasp is that I don't agree with chequers but given the politics it's probably the most pragmatic solution. The important thing is we get out. The alternative to chequers is no deal which again I can live with. Time is running out fast and so on balance chequers is probably the least worst path. That's my opinion I HAVE AN OPINION not boris johnsons or other politicians MINE and the day I am too stupid to work an opinion out for myself is the time to pack in.


You do realise that the Tories have borrowed more than labour when in government.

We also all know how well austerity has worked. Britains national debt has increased by over £500 billion since Osborne took office in 2010. Another of those pesky facts making an absolute nonsense of your argument.

As for your opinion on brexit it is not an opinion it is a series's of opinions depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Any brexit will do and you prove that.


Of course the Tories have borrowed more they inherited a deficit put 10 years borrowing 150 billion a year to keep afloat you will soon increase borrowing. Deficit is not the same as borrowing again your lack of education is clear. The deficit is like your wages vs your outgoings your borrowing is your overdraft. As for opinions on brexit there are plenty unless you are waiting for the day everyone in the UK has excatly the same thought in which case you will be waiting a long time. I have an opinion it's mine and mine alone and I worked it out myself I may be wrong but unlike some I can at least form an opinion


"Of course the tories have borrowed more". You should have stopped there.

As for your opinion. I can confirm that it is wrong. Sorry I can conform that they are wrong.
Brexit in Name only today: No deal brexit tomorrow.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 03:28 PM

Shaggy you say my opinion is wrong ok

Tell me what is the right opinion ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy you say my opinion is wrong ok

Tell me what is the right opinion ?


Stan that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I am entitled to mine also and in my opinion your opinion is wrong.

You have moved completely on brexit and how anyone can believe that chequers and a no deal brexit are both acceptable is beyond me. The two couldn't be further from each other. One is damage limitation, the other is total chaos.
I could understand support for one of them, but claiming that either is acceptable
is beyond me.

No one knows exactly what brexit means. As we have seen during the negotiations it is extremely difficult to argue your cause when you don't actually know what your cause is.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 04:16 PM

But what is your opinion ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
But what is your opinion ?


That brexit is as painless as possible for ordinary people. The people were sold a lie but brexit will go ahead, however little of what was promised will be delivered.

The idea of a no deal brexit is insanity.

We both know Stan that ordinary people will gain nothing from whatever brexit is agreed.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
But what is your opinion ?


That brexit is as painless as possible for ordinary people. The people were sold a lie but brexit will go ahead, however little of what was promised will be delivered.

The idea of a no deal brexit is insanity.

We both know Stan that ordinary people will gain nothing from whatever brexit is agreed.



Well firstly you don't know what I do or don't know or think you have enough trouble with your own mind never mind taking over someone else's. Above is not an answer it's just a generalised complaint about about brexit and the government. I am not happy with aspects of the Brexit negotiations and chequers is certainly not my favoured option however I have expressed a way forward probably about fifty times now. What shaggy would be your way forward ? Cancel brexit? Go with chequers ? Blow up the houses of parliment ? What ? We can all moan and whine go on for once in your life express a coherent suggestion ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
But what is your opinion ?


That brexit is as painless as possible for ordinary people. The people were sold a lie but brexit will go ahead, however little of what was promised will be delivered.

The idea of a no deal brexit is insanity.

We both know Stan that ordinary people will gain nothing from whatever brexit is agreed.



Well firstly you don't know what I do or don't know or think you have enough trouble with your own mind never mind taking over someone else's. Above is not an answer it's just a generalised complaint about about brexit and the government. I am not happy with aspects of the Brexit negotiations and chequers is certainly not my favoured option however I have expressed a way forward probably about fifty times now. What shaggy would be your way forward ? Cancel brexit? Go with chequers ? Blow up the houses of parliment ? What ? We can all moan and whine go on for once in your life express a coherent suggestion ?


Stan make some bread and forget about the empire. It's gone.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 06:32 PM

Blowing up the houses of parliament would save an absolute fortune.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/09/18 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Blowing up the houses of parliament would save an absolute fortune.


You old lefty revolutionary
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By lumba
Blowing up the houses of parliament would save an absolute fortune.


It's being extensively refurbished so that's probably true blow it up and relocate to Birmingham in the centre of Britain London is not Britain
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 11:56 AM

Why relocate to a place where the inhabitants are not british?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
Why relocate to a place where the inhabitants are not british?


There's even less British in London
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 02:04 PM

If you end up in Stratford,East Ham or Southall out west,then that is the case.Tottenham 50/50.

However all those areas like Kensington,Earls Court,Belgravia,

Knightbridge are 90% English.

Terrace house in Kensington £3.5 million,Detached £6 million.

Two bed flat in Belgravia £2.2 million average.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
If you end up in Stratford,East Ham or Southall out west,then that is the case.Tottenham 50/50.

However all those areas like Kensington,Earls Court,Belgravia,

Knightbridge are 90% English.

Terrace house in Kensington £3.5 million,Detached £6 million.

Two bed flat in Belgravia £2.2 million average.



Not realised they are as cheap as that might put a bid in
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 03:45 PM

Damn those foreigners living over here.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 03:49 PM

I thought the russians owned most of posh London now.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 04:32 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0rAvZtM7w
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
If you end up in Stratford,East Ham or Southall out west,then that is the case.Tottenham 50/50.

However all those areas like Kensington,Earls Court,Belgravia,

Knightbridge are 90% English.

Terrace house in Kensington £3.5 million,Detached £6 million.

Two bed flat in Belgravia £2.2 million average.



How can so many non British are in London, are they illegal residents and/or from EU? Sorry I am not sure to understand.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 05:43 PM

I'm looking at Mauritius again Vish,liking Flic en Flac beach.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I'm looking at Mauritius again Vish,liking Flic en Flac beach.


How big is your army? I am sure you'll let me use my beach house after occupation.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 06:12 PM

mi casa, su casa Vish grin
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
mi casa, su casa Vish grin


What's that, Portuguese?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/09/18 08:21 PM

I hope you're gonna take me out when I visit Vish,I like fish .
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/09/18 03:52 AM

Originally Posted By lumba
I hope you're gonna take me out when I visit Vish,I like fish .


Sure
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/09/18 06:44 PM

Is March a good time?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/09/18 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Is March a good time?


Yes. You are thinking of staying in a hotel or self catering apartment?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/09/18 06:51 PM

I usually go self catering wherever i go in Europe but not sure tbh,what would you suggest?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/09/18 04:51 AM

Originally Posted By lumba
I usually go self catering wherever i go in Europe but not sure tbh,what would you suggest?


Up to you, hotels are more expensive. If you are thinking of beach hotels in Flic En Flac you can check on booking.com Sugar Beach, La Pirogue on the high end and Pearl Beach on the lower end. For self catering Cap Ouest is right on the beach and West Terraces just behind the beach road. It depends on your budget.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/09/18 05:13 AM

phew looks like a deal will be done..bloody brits had us all worried.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/09/18 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
phew looks like a deal will be done..bloody brits had us all worried.


If we are getting you lot worried we are doing something right. I have said from day one a deal will be done there is simply too much to lose for both sides. Whether it gets accepted by parliment is another question
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/09/18 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
phew looks like a deal will be done..bloody brits had us all worried.


If we are getting you lot worried we are doing something right. I have said from day one a deal will be done there is simply too much to lose for both sides. Whether it gets accepted by parliment is another question


Brexit in Name Only anyone?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/09/18 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
phew looks like a deal will be done..bloody brits had us all worried.


If we are getting you lot worried we are doing something right. I have said from day one a deal will be done there is simply too much to lose for both sides. Whether it gets accepted by parliment is another question


Brexit in Name Only anyone?


Was just listening to an interview of the Jaguar Land Rover boss. SP will probably say he knows nothing.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/09/18 01:28 AM

I am sure he is a very clever man but he does not speak for or control the British nation
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/09/18 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure he is a very clever man but he does not speak for or control the British nation


No he only speaks for his company and the workers in his company, those who might lose their jobs if JLR moves to Slovakia for example.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/09/18 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure he is a very clever man but he does not speak for or control the British nation


No one does. Britain is a basket case right now.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/09/18 02:07 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure he is a very clever man but he does not speak for or control the British nation


No one does. Britain is a basket case right now.


May I ask how you came about that information ? Did someone in the pub tell you ? One thing I know for sure you didn't reason it yourself
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/09/18 08:52 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure he is a very clever man but he does not speak for or control the British nation


No one does. Britain is a basket case right now.


May I ask how you came about that information ? Did someone in the pub tell you ? One thing I know for sure you didn't reason it yourself


No, I'm sorry you may not ask, as you are very rude.
Posted by: RafaB

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 19/09/18 04:43 PM

Here's what has been discovered regarding our alleged brexit.. BS programme... The scare mongering of how everything is going to collapse after we (don't) Exit.. EEA is what I say..

EEA which is not effected by Brexit - this is a commercial agreement among the EU members, Norway, Iceland, Lichenstien.. Yet Swiss are not part of either yet can move freely as if in EU.... Go Figure....

EEA wants my signature on a data protection form for my kids school???
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 20/09/18 09:59 PM

R.I.P. The Chequers Agreement.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 02:33 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
R.I.P. The Chequers Agreement.


Excellent no deal it is then !
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 04:24 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
R.I.P. The Chequers Agreement.


Excellent no deal it is then !


Looks like you are happy, let's see what happens to the GBP this morning.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 04:49 AM

Shaggy is just following the latest headline day by day and taking it as unchangeable fact. There is a lot of posturing going on at the moment especially by the EU the truth is no one other than the negotiators know the position not even the press. Although stories sell newspapers and TV advertising hence they will keep coming. My instinct (which I have said from day one) is there will be a deal. Let's see if I am right. If I am wrong then no deal it is which is fine by me.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 06:49 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
R.I.P. The Chequers Agreement.


Excellent no deal it is then !


Looks like you are happy, let's see what happens to the GBP this morning.


The insanity of Brexit in a nutshell. No deal is now an excellent outcome.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 04:49 PM

We have people on this forum who live in Great Britain (while claiming they are not british) who take glee in the negotiations going badly, who home in on every setback. That's pretty dumb in my book if you live in Britain. I have watched Theresa mays speach and read the news nothing has changed I still maintain a deal will be done. What we are seeing now is political sparring. However if it's not so be it no deal it will have to be.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 06:52 PM

Weíll get a deal as itís in everyoneís interest.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 21/09/18 07:53 PM

[quote=Stanley Park]We have people on this forum who live in Great Britain (while claiming they are not british) who take glee in the negotiations going badly, who home in on every setback. That's pretty dumb in my book if you live in Britain. I have watched Theresa mays speach and read the news nothing has changed I still maintain a deal will be done. What we are seeing now is political sparring. However if it's not so be it no deal it will have to be

The only person on here who thinks a No Deal Brexit is excellent is you.
I see you have now moved from a supporter of Chequers to a fan of a no deal brexit.

When it comes to Brexit you are consistently erratic.

What we saw yesterday was May trying to play hardball and having her ar5e handed to her.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/09/18 06:06 AM

Our resident brain of Britain is telling us how bad brexit is. If only he could work it out for himself (for good or bad) instead he follows every day's headline and sends us newspaper links as a substitute for individual thought. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but it's reasonable to expect some articulate response.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/09/18 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Our resident brain of Britain is telling us how bad brexit is. If only he could work it out for himself (for good or bad) instead he follows every day's headline and sends us newspaper links as a substitute for individual thought. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but it's reasonable to expect some articulate response.


Name calling is all you have left. Still waiting for that Brexit plan that offers everyone a better future.

Are you Chequers, no deal or remain today?

Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/09/18 05:16 PM

There will never be a brexit deal that suits everyone just as in any election. Unless you are used to political solutions in Ulster where 100% agree? From experience you take every headline and take it as unchangable fact. Whereas most people are capable of taking a wider judgement. Take your comment the "the EU showed Theresa May her arse" that is uneducated childish tripe. Most people with an ounce of intelligence can see both sides are posturing before the final deal. I am convinced there will be a deal in my judgement but I may be wrong and if there is a deal not everyone will be happy. That's impossible
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/09/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There will never be a brexit deal that suits everyone just as in any election. Unless you are used to political solutions in Ulster where 100% agree? From experience you take every headline and take it as unchangable fact. Whereas most people are capable of taking a wider judgement. Take your comment the "the EU showed Theresa May her arse" that is uneducated childish tripe. Most people with an ounce of intelligence can see both sides are posturing before the final deal. I am convinced there will be a deal in my judgement but I may be wrong and if there is a deal not everyone will be happy. That's impossible


You are capable of taking a very wide judgement.

Chequers one day, no deal the next. I suppose it depends on the Daily Express headline.

Yet again you fail to provide any evidence of a Brexit plan that shows that we will all be better off after we leave the EU.

Do please convince us how we will all be better off and how the evil EU is oppressing Britain.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 22/09/18 08:46 PM

In sure people will justify the outcome of this madness no matter what the result ,it's hard to take these people seriously anymore.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 01:58 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There will never be a brexit deal that suits everyone just as in any election. Unless you are used to political solutions in Ulster where 100% agree? From experience you take every headline and take it as unchangable fact. Whereas most people are capable of taking a wider judgement. Take your comment the "the EU showed Theresa May her arse" that is uneducated childish tripe. Most people with an ounce of intelligence can see both sides are posturing before the final deal. I am convinced there will be a deal in my judgement but I may be wrong and if there is a deal not everyone will be happy. That's impossible


You are capable of taking a very wide judgement.

Chequers one day, no deal the next. I suppose it depends on the Daily Express headline.

Yet again you fail to provide any evidence of a Brexit plan that shows that we will all be better off after we leave the EU.

Do please convince us how we will all be better off and how the evil EU is oppressing Britain.



Was watching Carole Malone on The Pledge Sky debate recently where she was saying that the British employers will have to get ready to increase wages with Brexit as British workers would ask for more money for the same jobs when EU migrants won't be allowed in after Brexit. What she didn't say is that it would be the British prices which would go up and/or British jobs will move to the cheaper EU countries as private companies/investors will always look into maintaining their profits.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 04:44 PM

So we should stay in the EU so greedy employers can pay next to nothing to EU nationals? Isn't that all but slavery?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
So we should stay in the EU so greedy employers can pay next to nothing to EU nationals? Isn't that all but slavery?


I am not saying if you have to stay or not but investors have been investing where costs are lower for quite a few decades now and this will continue, especially with the free trade your government want to sign with the whole world, in fact the EU is a relatively protected market. Do you buy more expensive made in UK products or the cheaper made in China? Why do you think most of what we buy now come from China?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 07:03 PM

Maybe itís about time companies started paying decent money? If they can get away with not doing then theyíll have to. Not everyone will move production abroad. Iíd buy from where ever the best quality comes from and that generally isnít China if weíre honest and Iíd pay for that quality. Plus if we invest in manufacturing etc. in the uk prices from the uk will start coming down.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Maybe itís about time companies started paying decent money? If they can get away with not doing then theyíll have to. Not everyone will move production abroad. Iíd buy from where ever the best quality comes from and that generally isnít China if weíre honest and Iíd pay for that quality. Plus if we invest in manufacturing etc. in the uk prices from the uk will start coming down.


Most branded electronic and electrical appliances are manufactured in China, I am not talking about the simple stuff. My point is investors will not invest in manufacturing where costs are higher, why would they?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 23/09/18 08:01 PM

I get that but if they invest and get economies of scale right then prices will come down. We need more manufacturing in this country regardless of Brexit but whether we'll get it or not is another thing.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 03:47 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
I get that but if they invest and get economies of scale right then prices will come down. We need more manufacturing in this country regardless of Brexit but whether we'll get it or not is another thing.


Manufacturing has been moving to lower cost countries since globalisation and will continue unless there is protectionism that can only work for huge economies like the US and EU. Services is different to some extent as very often you need to be where it is being delivered. JLR is building a plant in Slovakia because of that.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 06:01 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There will never be a brexit deal that suits everyone just as in any election. Unless you are used to political solutions in Ulster where 100% agree? From experience you take every headline and take it as unchangable fact. Whereas most people are capable of taking a wider judgement. Take your comment the "the EU showed Theresa May her arse" that is uneducated childish tripe. Most people with an ounce of intelligence can see both sides are posturing before the final deal. I am convinced there will be a deal in my judgement but I may be wrong and if there is a deal not everyone will be happy. That's impossible


You are capable of taking a very wide judgement.

Chequers one day, no deal the next. I suppose it depends on the Daily Express headline.

Yet again you fail to provide any evidence of a Brexit plan that shows that we will all be better off after we leave the EU.

Do please convince us how we will all be better off and how the evil EU is oppressing Britain.



To convince you of anything you would have to be capable of reasoning. You have shown no evidence of that to date. You have not even read the chequers proposal never mind understood it. What hope is there ?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 07:23 AM

Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There will never be a brexit deal that suits everyone just as in any election. Unless you are used to political solutions in Ulster where 100% agree? From experience you take every headline and take it as unchangable fact. Whereas most people are capable of taking a wider judgement. Take your comment the "the EU showed Theresa May her arse" that is uneducated childish tripe. Most people with an ounce of intelligence can see both sides are posturing before the final deal. I am convinced there will be a deal in my judgement but I may be wrong and if there is a deal not everyone will be happy. That's impossible


You are capable of taking a very wide judgement.

Chequers one day, no deal the next. I suppose it depends on the Daily Express headline.

Yet again you fail to provide any evidence of a Brexit plan that shows that we will all be better off after we leave the EU.

Do please convince us how we will all be better off and how the evil EU is oppressing Britain.



To convince you of anything you would have to be capable of reasoning. You have shown no evidence of that to date. You have not even read the chequers proposal never mind understood it. What hope is there ?


What hope is there? None for the Chequers Agreement. If you read the entire Chequers agreement as you claimed then obviously you would have realised that it would never be acceptable to the EU as it was just more cherry picking. Maybe you missed that section?

Yet again I will ask for the Brexiteer plan that will leave us all better off after we leave the EU.

Any chance of an answer or will there just be more name calling?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?


It isn't labours problem. It's a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The tories have made a complete mess of the negotiations not labour.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?


It isn't labours problem. It's a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The tories have made a complete mess of the negotiations not labour.





Have they made a mess of the negotiations? This has never been done before so what are you bench marking this against?

This is just Corbyn and his cronies trying to muscle into power. Watch that 70's throw back McDonald earlier calling for a general election nearly made me physically sick. They're like the kid at school who was shitte at footie who would start a game and be captain so he didn't get picked last.

All they're doing is trying to frustrate the process for their own political game which with 6 months left is the worst possible thing they can do. And when asked the question of whether anyone within the EU would work with them IF they were to be in power and he gave the standard politician question dodging answer. I can only imagine that the EU, like any normal democracy supporting person in this country, just wants the negotiations finished with so we can all get on with our lives.

Labour doing this won't make that happen and all it will do is create further uncertainty that'll hit the home markets and ultimately US in the pocket.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?


It isn't labours problem. It's a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The tories have made a complete mess of the negotiations not labour.





Have they made a mess of the negotiations? This has never been done before so what are you bench marking this against?

This is just Corbyn and his cronies trying to muscle into power. Watch that 70's throw back McDonald earlier calling for a general election nearly made me physically sick. They're like the kid at school who was shitte at footie who would start a game and be captain so he didn't get picked last.

All they're doing is trying to frustrate the process for their own political game which with 6 months left is the worst possible thing they can do. And when asked the question of whether anyone within the EU would work with them IF they were to be in power and he gave the standard politician question dodging answer. I can only imagine that the EU, like any normal democracy supporting person in this country, just wants the negotiations finished with so we can all get on with our lives.

Labour doing this won't make that happen and all it will do is create further uncertainty that'll hit the home markets and ultimately US in the pocket.


Yes they have made a mess of the negotiations.

Firstly May called an election when she already had a majority and came out of it with a minority government dependant on the DUP for support.

She then triggered Article 50 without having any idea of what exactly Britain's negotiating position was going to be.

She then set a series of red lines that gave her no wriggle room as negotiations progressed.

Her government wasted 2 years fighting amongst themselves, failing utterly to offer any semblance of a viable Brexit plan.

The Chequers Plan, which cost her two of her most senior ministers was rejected by the EU as it again included cherry picking. Her insistence that it is Chequers or no deal is deeply worrying as she seems to have run out of ideas.

None of this has anything to do with labour and all they are doing is sitting tight as the tories destroy themselves.

I challenge anyone to show us how we will be better off out of the EU at the end of all this.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:17 PM

Wilki blaming Labour is just typical.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:22 PM

Any opposition party watching this mess unfold would be nuts not pushing for a general election ,would you be saying the same thing if Labour was putting the country through this,I think not.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:25 PM

Let's face it ,if the Tories were a dog they would have been euthanized by now.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Wilki blaming Labour is just typical.


Where did I blame Labour? Them wanting to frustrate the process for their own political gain is happening and that's what I'm taking issue with.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:34 PM

The tory infighting is doing a fine job of that all on their own though Wilks,
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?


It isn't labours problem. It's a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The tories have made a complete mess of the negotiations not labour.





Have they made a mess of the negotiations? This has never been done before so what are you bench marking this against?

This is just Corbyn and his cronies trying to muscle into power. Watch that 70's throw back McDonald earlier calling for a general election nearly made me physically sick. They're like the kid at school who was shitte at footie who would start a game and be captain so he didn't get picked last.

All they're doing is trying to frustrate the process for their own political game which with 6 months left is the worst possible thing they can do. And when asked the question of whether anyone within the EU would work with them IF they were to be in power and he gave the standard politician question dodging answer. I can only imagine that the EU, like any normal democracy supporting person in this country, just wants the negotiations finished with so we can all get on with our lives.

Labour doing this won't make that happen and all it will do is create further uncertainty that'll hit the home markets and ultimately US in the pocket.


Yes they have made a mess of the negotiations.

Firstly May called an election when she already had a majority and came out of it with a minority government dependant on the DUP for support.

She then triggered Article 50 without having any idea of what exactly Britain's negotiating position was going to be.

She then set a series of red lines that gave her no wriggle room as negotiations progressed.

Her government wasted 2 years fighting amongst themselves, failing utterly to offer any semblance of a viable Brexit plan.

The Chequers Plan, which cost her two of her most senior ministers was rejected by the EU as it again included cherry picking. Her insistence that it is Chequers or no deal is deeply worrying as she seems to have run out of ideas.

None of this has anything to do with labour and all they are doing is sitting tight as the tories destroy themselves.

I challenge anyone to show us how we will be better off out of the EU at the end of all this.





No ruling political party wanted Brexit yet have to carry out the will of the people. It was a shock that leave won so I'm not surprised there was no exit plan even if there should have been one. Those who promised it had no power to carry out what they were selling so those who voted for it were pretty damn stupid in my eyes.

But May, for me, is doing her best in trying to do something that has never been done before. There is no handbook for doing this and while trying to please the UK she also has to try and please 27 other countries. That will never happen whether it's the Torries or Labour negotiating. Hearing some of the 70's throwbacks comments earlier about what they would do then we may as well not leave. Now that will obviously please you as a remainer but if the country voted to leave then we have to be out. That's how democracy works but obviously not those who are trying to rise to power at any cost.

All this is doing is damaging the country. We may not be better off out but we will be better off out than in some sort of limbo as we are now. We voted to leave the EU and triggering article 50 had to be done regardless of when. Had she not done it straight away we'd have been in another kind of limbo which would have created more uncertainty in the markets and damaged us more.

So you can say the Torries have messed up all you want and no doubt you will for your own reasons but like it or not the best thing to do is let them get the best deal possible for the nation. They did win the general election after all on a mandate to get us out of the EU. Anyone trying to stall this for their own political gain is nothing short of a cvnt and will damage the country in the long run (and I count Labour, Torries and Lib Dems in that cvnt category).

It seems democracy only works for some when it suits their own needs now days.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
The tory infighting is doing a fine job of that all on their own though Wilks,


So? Where did I blame Labour for anything but frustrating this process for their own gain, which they're doing? I'd also suggest, as you have, that if this was the other way around you'd be doing the same as me.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:47 PM

May is doing her job,whether she's good enough at performing her job remains to be seen,i mean even the A-Team had a back up plan.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
The tory infighting is doing a fine job of that all on their own though Wilks,


So? Where did I blame Labour for anything but frustrating this process for their own gain, which they're doing? I'd also suggest, as you have, that if this was the other way around you'd be doing the same as me.
I wouldn't dare show my face never mind try to defend it.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
May is doing her job,whether she's good enough at performing her job remains to be seen,i mean even the A-Team had a back up plan.


She's trying to do something that has never been done before and she needs to try and please everyone which will never happen. NO ONE would do a better job.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Well it looks like labour want to frustrate the process just for their own political gain now. Will these cvnts ever just get on with this and stop fukking with our future?


It isn't labours problem. It's a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The tories have made a complete mess of the negotiations not labour.





Have they made a mess of the negotiations? This has never been done before so what are you bench marking this against?

This is just Corbyn and his cronies trying to muscle into power. Watch that 70's throw back McDonald earlier calling for a general election nearly made me physically sick. They're like the kid at school who was shitte at footie who would start a game and be captain so he didn't get picked last.

All they're doing is trying to frustrate the process for their own political game which with 6 months left is the worst possible thing they can do. And when asked the question of whether anyone within the EU would work with them IF they were to be in power and he gave the standard politician question dodging answer. I can only imagine that the EU, like any normal democracy supporting person in this country, just wants the negotiations finished with so we can all get on with our lives.

Labour doing this won't make that happen and all it will do is create further uncertainty that'll hit the home markets and ultimately US in the pocket.


The role of any opposition is to get in power, isn't it, especially if the ruling party cannot agree on a way forward? Instead of negotiating with the EU they have been negotiating with themselves for 2 years or so and have still not agreed, complete joke. Corbyn is just doing his job.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 06:57 PM

When the future of the country, my country, is at stake then politics should take a back seat for the good of the country. Corbyn and his 70's throw backs would do no better. No one would as it's the impossible job.

But if everyone pulled together and got on with it instead of trying to use the situation for their own gain, things may go a little more smoothly and the outcome might be a little more palatable.

This just shows that ALL politicians are complete cvnts who are in it for themselves no matter how they portray themselves.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
When the future of the country, my country, is at stake then politics should take a back seat for the good of the country. Corbyn and his 70's throw backs would do no better. No one would as it's the impossible job.

But if everyone pulled together and got on with it instead of trying to use the situation for their own gain, things may go a little more smoothly and the outcome might be a little more palatable.

This just shows that ALL politicians are complete cvnts who are in it for themselves no matter how they portray themselves.


As somebody said, football is a simple game made complicated by some, that's exactly what your government is doing regarding Brexit. In fact everything is in the EU rules which UK helped drafting. I'll try to explain. There are 3 options if you are out of the EU (Not counting no deal)

1. Be part of the customs union and free market like Norway, the least disruptive. However, this will be unacceptable by the Brexiters as you are out in name only but pay in the EU budget and accept free movement. Some remainers want that as it contains least uncertainty, therefore least risk.

2. Be part only of the customs Union as Turkey. No free movement but no borders for goods, so no hard border, therefore no borders in Ireland. I sort of understand that this is what Labour wants. You will still have to negotiate a few things like services but 2 years would have been well enough. The hard Brexiters do not want that because they think there is more to gain by negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world and it's also an ego thing as trade deals will be negotiated by the EU, with which the UK has been prospering for a few decades, but they think they can do better, just through belief.

3. A Canada type free trade deal, the most disruptive (excluding no deal of course). The problem here is mainly Ireland and companies who work within an integrated supply chain. Hard Brexiters want this but they don't care about Ireland or business, you know, the fk business statement.

The problem has been that your cabinet, let alone government or country, haven't been able to agree on any of the 3 options. So it is a bloody joke created by the Tories. I must add that Corbyn is just too socialist for me, so, unfortunately, looks like you people are fked either way. The EU has been saying they won't go out of their way to rewrite the rules because of UK, and rightly so, but May thought she could force them to, maybe she is right.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 10:12 PM

As I said, she has an impossible job of trying to keep everyone happy. But whether you like what sheís doing or not isnít the point here. Itís whether Corbyn and his cronies should be playing politics and trying to seize power at such a crucial time in our country. For me the answer is a massive no and it just shows him and them all up for what they really are.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 24/09/18 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
As I said, she has an impossible job of trying to keep everyone happy. But whether you like what sheís doing or not isnít the point here. Itís whether Corbyn and his cronies should be playing politics and trying to seize power at such a crucial time in our country. For me the answer is a massive no and it just shows him and them all up for what they really are.


Why do you think Cameron called the referendum in the first place wilki?

If the party in opposition isn't trying to seize power it isn't much of an opposition.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 03:43 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
As I said, she has an impossible job of trying to keep everyone happy. But whether you like what sheís doing or not isnít the point here. Itís whether Corbyn and his cronies should be playing politics and trying to seize power at such a crucial time in our country. For me the answer is a massive no and it just shows him and them all up for what they really are.


As I said before, the job of the opposition is to seize power especially if the opponent is doing a lousy job. What should they do according to you, just disappear? You cannot even say support the government as there are different factions of the government, which one should they support?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 04:39 AM

All politicians whether they are labour or not swear an allegiance to the queen and country to act in its best interests, They do they once they take the job and swear on the bible.

It's not their duty to screw the country to suit Party interests Vish is plain wrong
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:25 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
As I said, she has an impossible job of trying to keep everyone happy. But whether you like what sheís doing or not isnít the point here. Itís whether Corbyn and his cronies should be playing politics and trying to seize power at such a crucial time in our country. For me the answer is a massive no and it just shows him and them all up for what they really are.


Why do you think Cameron called the referendum in the first place wilki?

If the party in opposition isn't trying to seize power it isn't much of an opposition.


Time and a place shaggy and this is neither. Democracy for them and a lot of others it seems is only good when it suits them.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
As I said, she has an impossible job of trying to keep everyone happy. But whether you like what sheís doing or not isnít the point here. Itís whether Corbyn and his cronies should be playing politics and trying to seize power at such a crucial time in our country. For me the answer is a massive no and it just shows him and them all up for what they really are.


As I said before, the job of the opposition is to seize power especially if the opponent is doing a lousy job. What should they do according to you, just disappear? You cannot even say support the government as there are different factions of the government, which one should they support?


If you care to read what Iíve said they should leave it until the process is done. This isnít the time to be playing politics and it will ultimately damage the country more than brexit itself which I thought youíd be against as you seem so interested in it?

We have 6 months to get this done. How will trying forcing a general election help? How will trying to force a public vote on a deal help? How will trying to force us to stay help? None of those options will help.

What will help is for red Jezza and his cronies to help us get the best deal possible, one that will benefit the country. Unfortunately they seem more interested in their own political gain than the future of the country or the majority of their voters for that matter.

No doubt theyíll cry democracy at some point the very democracy that theyíre making a mockery of.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
All politicians whether they are labour or not swear an allegiance to the queen and country to act in its best interests, They do they once they take the job and swear on the bible.

It's not their duty to screw the country to suit Party interests Vish is plain wrong


It seems that even the whiter than white, leftie politicians are just as big a bunch of cvnts as the rest of them. Sad when our future is at stake.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 10:11 AM

Unbelievable that despite the Tory created brexit disaster labour is still being attacked.

The future of labour voters is at stake also or does that not matter.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 10:17 AM

They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 10:54 AM

Sorry Wilki but you're talking shitttt if you think your beloved Tory party wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing if Labour were in control of this mess.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


So are you saying that what the Tory party is doing is good for your country?

This is a Tory created mess and they are no nearer sorting it out than they were two years ago.

But sure let's blame Corbyn.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 11:15 AM

Woke up with a toothache this morning..Damn you Corbyn!
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


Seriously, I don't understand what you expect the opposition to do, in fact it's not only Labour. Are you saying they shouldn't say or do anything? If they don't like the Chequers proposal (they are not the only one btw), what are they supposed to do according to you?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
All politicians whether they are labour or not swear an allegiance to the queen and country to act in its best interests, They do they once they take the job and swear on the bible.

It's not their duty to screw the country to suit Party interests Vish is plain wrong


What's the best interest of the country?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Sorry Wilki but you're talking shitttt if you think your beloved Tory party wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing if Labour were in control of this mess.


I'm sure I would as I hold no love for either party. I hold those Torries who are trying to frustrate the process in as much contempt as I do anyone from any other party.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


So are you saying that what the Tory party is doing is good for your country?

This is a Tory created mess and they are no nearer sorting it out than they were two years ago.

But sure let's blame Corbyn.


Again, please show me where I'm blaming Labour for any mess we might be in. I'm blaming them and rightly so for playing politics with this and trying to gain an advantage for their own good at a time when we all need to pull together.

Trying to force an election at this point is only in the interests of the Labour party and NO ONE else as all it will do is create even more uncertainty and will mean we will leave without a deal as they won't have time to push their agenda on the EU.

What the Torrie party is doing is trying to negotiate us out of the EU as per the public vote. I know you don't seem to be able to accept that vote, a democratic vote but it's what is happening and a mess or not we have to live by that vote or where does that leave democracy?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


Seriously, I don't understand what you expect the opposition to do, in fact it's not only Labour. Are you saying they shouldn't say or do anything? If they don't like the Chequers proposal (they are not the only one btw), what are they supposed to do according to you?


I expect them to object to things they don't want. I expect them to try and get what they want written into the negotiations.

But I don't expect them to be playing politics for their own gain at such a crucial time for the future of this country. If that's OK with you then fine but it's not with me and it effects me a whole lot more than it does you.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


So are you saying that what the Tory party is doing is good for your country?

This is a Tory created mess and they are no nearer sorting it out than they were two years ago.

But sure let's blame Corbyn.


Again, please show me where I'm blaming Labour for any mess we might be in. I'm blaming them and rightly so for playing politics with this and trying to gain an advantage for their own good at a time when we all need to pull together.

Trying to force an election at this point is only in the interests of the Labour party and NO ONE else as all it will do is create even more uncertainty and will mean we will leave without a deal as they won't have time to push their agenda on the EU.

What the Torrie party is doing is trying to negotiate us out of the EU as per the public vote. I know you don't seem to be able to accept that vote, a democratic vote but it's what is happening and a mess or not we have to live by that vote or where does that leave democracy?


I have no problem accepting the vote it is the pathetic handling of the negotiations that worries me most. However if you campaigned to leave you maybe should of thought up a plan that you would implement to replace your arrangement with the EU. Unfortunately brexiteers seem to have overlooked this small matter.

The Tory party is unable to negotiate the U.K. out of the EU. because of the civil war that is raging within its own party.

How has Johnson and Davis resigning helped the negotiations, did they put the interests of the country before their own agendas?

How is the constant undermining of the Chequers Plan by Jacob Rees Mogg helping the country secure a better deal? That's the same Rees Mogg who has set up business in Dublin to avoid the coming disaster.

This whole mess was created by the tories for party political reasons. It has backfired spectacularly on them and they have no one to blame but themselves.






Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:52 PM

Like I've said, I hold all those who are hindering the process in equal contempt. The one thing those who left haven't done is go around calling for a general election at such a crucial time so there is a slight difference there between what they've done and what Labour are doing.

I'd suggest Labour are also quite divided here too. A lot of Labour's heartland voted to leave yet here is red Jezza trying to not leave. How does that promote unity? Most Labour MP's also vowed to uphold the vote so again how does that fit with them doing what they are?

I'd also like to ask again what you're bench marking our pathetic negotiations against? This hasn't been done before so I'm not clear on how or what you're comparing them to? How could Labour, who are also divided, or anyone else do any better?

And if you have no problem with upholding the vote, why do you seem to want it to fail? Would you be happy for another referendum and would you vote to leave as you want to uphold the original vote which was democratic and fair?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


Seriously, I don't understand what you expect the opposition to do, in fact it's not only Labour. Are you saying they shouldn't say or do anything? If they don't like the Chequers proposal (they are not the only one btw), what are they supposed to do according to you?


I expect them to object to things they don't want. I expect them to try and get what they want written into the negotiations.

But I don't expect them to be playing politics for their own gain at such a crucial time for the future of this country. If that's OK with you then fine but it's not with me and it effects me a whole lot more than it does you.


Well, it has already affected me when the GBP lost 12% or so in value, but that's not relevant to anybody in the UK, I understand that and there is nothing I can do about it.

Coming back to the opposition, from what I have understood, the Lib dems want a vote on the deal and the Labour want to negotiate along a customs union line deal. As non of those are being considered by the government, they have every right to find another way, else they are not doing the job they have been elected to do.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Like I've said, I hold all those who are hindering the process in equal contempt. The one thing those who left haven't done is go around calling for a general election at such a crucial time so there is a slight difference there between what they've done and what Labour are doing.

I'd suggest Labour are also quite divided here too. A lot of Labour's heartland voted to leave yet here is red Jezza trying to not leave. How does that promote unity? Most Labour MP's also vowed to uphold the vote so again how does that fit with them doing what they are?

I'd also like to ask again what you're bench marking our pathetic negotiations against? This hasn't been done before so I'm not clear on how or what you're comparing them to? How could Labour, who are also divided, or anyone else do any better?

And if you have no problem with upholding the vote, why do you seem to want it to fail? Would you be happy for another referendum and would you vote to leave as you want to uphold the original vote which was democratic and fair?


May has been tasked with trying to deliver the undeliverable because no one knows what Brexit means and her own cabinet is split over it. No one has a feasible brexit plan either. The negotiations are pathetic because she has tried to run with a Chequers plan that she knew Europe wouldn't accept. Nearly two years wasted on a plan that would never be accepted.

Why would I want it to fail? We on the Irish border will suffer as much as anyone else. People were promised things that were never deliverable and those who promised them were allowed to slink away and abdicate their responsibilities.

Those same people now sit on the sidelines and snipe at May, knowing she can never deliver what they promised.

By the way May called an election after Brexit when negotiations could have been taking place. Probably Corbyn's fault.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
They're being attacked for trying to get a political gain at a time when our country needs to pull together. If you can't see that and think what they're doing is right then that's your problem.

I want what is best for my country and them trying to force through a general election, a fresh referendum or whatever they plan to do to try and seize power at this time is not good for my country. Not for anyone and that includes Labour voters, most of which what they're trying to do will go against by the way. Remember those Labour voters who wanted to leave.

Like I keep saying, democracy seems to only be a good thing when it goes in some's favour.


Seriously, I don't understand what you expect the opposition to do, in fact it's not only Labour. Are you saying they shouldn't say or do anything? If they don't like the Chequers proposal (they are not the only one btw), what are they supposed to do according to you?


I expect them to object to things they don't want. I expect them to try and get what they want written into the negotiations.

But I don't expect them to be playing politics for their own gain at such a crucial time for the future of this country. If that's OK with you then fine but it's not with me and it effects me a whole lot more than it does you.


Well, it has already affected me when the GBP lost 12% or so in value, but that's not relevant to anybody in the UK, I understand that and there is nothing I can do about it.

Coming back to the opposition, from what I have understood, the Lib dems want a vote on the deal and the Labour want to negotiate along a customs union line deal. As non of those are being considered by the government, they have every right to find another way, else they are not doing the job they have been elected to do.


How do you think more uncertainty, created by Labour, will help the pound?

I have no problem with them trying to get what they want from the negotiations. But what they're doing is going further than that and isn't right.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Like I've said, I hold all those who are hindering the process in equal contempt. The one thing those who left haven't done is go around calling for a general election at such a crucial time so there is a slight difference there between what they've done and what Labour are doing.

I'd suggest Labour are also quite divided here too. A lot of Labour's heartland voted to leave yet here is red Jezza trying to not leave. How does that promote unity? Most Labour MP's also vowed to uphold the vote so again how does that fit with them doing what they are?

I'd also like to ask again what you're bench marking our pathetic negotiations against? This hasn't been done before so I'm not clear on how or what you're comparing them to? How could Labour, who are also divided, or anyone else do any better?

And if you have no problem with upholding the vote, why do you seem to want it to fail? Would you be happy for another referendum and would you vote to leave as you want to uphold the original vote which was democratic and fair?


May has been tasked with trying to deliver the undeliverable because no one knows what Brexit means and her own cabinet is split over it. No one has a feasible brexit plan either. The negotiations are pathetic because she has tried to run with a Chequers plan that she knew Europe wouldn't accept. Nearly two years wasted on a plan that would never be accepted.

Why would I want it to fail? We on the Irish border will suffer as much as anyone else. People were promised things that were never deliverable and those who promised them were allowed to slink away and abdicate their responsibilities.

Those same people now sit on the sidelines and snipe at May, knowing she can never deliver what they promised.

By the way May called an election after Brexit when negotiations could have been taking place. Probably Corbyn's fault.


Lets face it, the only plan the EU would want is one that means we give them nearly all the money of the membership fee with all the trappings that come with it but have no say in what goes on. Like Norway. That isn't Brexit to most who voted hence why they are trying to get us a bespoke deal and that is why the EU will reject it. As you say it's the impossible.

Your bit in bold is what annoys me most about all this too and even more so why people would vote for something that those selling couldn't or had no power to deliver. It was bonkers and Cameron has a lot to answer for.

I understand why May called a snap election, which she won by the way. Yes they could've been negotiating then but she wanted a clear mandate and term to try and deliver an effective Brexit. Nothing wrong with that but it's a shame she didn't feel the need to campaign once she called it!
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Like I've said, I hold all those who are hindering the process in equal contempt. The one thing those who left haven't done is go around calling for a general election at such a crucial time so there is a slight difference there between what they've done and what Labour are doing.

I'd suggest Labour are also quite divided here too. A lot of Labour's heartland voted to leave yet here is red Jezza trying to not leave. How does that promote unity? Most Labour MP's also vowed to uphold the vote so again how does that fit with them doing what they are?

I'd also like to ask again what you're bench marking our pathetic negotiations against? This hasn't been done before so I'm not clear on how or what you're comparing them to? How could Labour, who are also divided, or anyone else do any better?

And if you have no problem with upholding the vote, why do you seem to want it to fail? Would you be happy for another referendum and would you vote to leave as you want to uphold the original vote which was democratic and fair?


May has been tasked with trying to deliver the undeliverable because no one knows what Brexit means and her own cabinet is split over it. No one has a feasible brexit plan either. The negotiations are pathetic because she has tried to run with a Chequers plan that she knew Europe wouldn't accept. Nearly two years wasted on a plan that would never be accepted.

Why would I want it to fail? We on the Irish border will suffer as much as anyone else. People were promised things that were never deliverable and those who promised them were allowed to slink away and abdicate their responsibilities.

Those same people now sit on the sidelines and snipe at May, knowing she can never deliver what they promised.

By the way May called an election after Brexit when negotiations could have been taking place. Probably Corbyn's fault.


Lets face it, the only plan the EU would want is one that means we give them nearly all the money of the membership fee with all the trappings that come with it but have no say in what goes on. Like Norway. That isn't Brexit to most who voted hence why they are trying to get us a bespoke deal and that is why the EU will reject it. As you say it's the impossible.

Your bit in bold is what annoys me most about all this too and even more so why people would vote for something that those selling couldn't or had no power to deliver. It was bonkers and Cameron has a lot to answer for.

I understand why May called a snap election, which she won by the way. Yes they could've been negotiating then but she wanted a clear mandate and term to try and deliver an effective Brexit. Nothing wrong with that but it's a shame she didn't feel the need to campaign once she called it!


Wilki she ended up with a minority government and reliant on the DUP to form a government. We all know how well that has gone. But you are right about her campaign, she has zero charisma.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 03:49 PM

May fought a diabolical election campaign. Their fatal mistake was assuming Corbyn was such a joke anyone with any sense would turn away from him. To be fair to May the polls were saying that. However the British people saw through that they don't like governments that say vote for me because the opposition is a joke they like governments to present positive reasons to vote. It was a fatal error and it backfired badly. I have read the comments wilki has made which are very sensible and in my view are the majority opinion in the UK even among voters who voted remain. People simply want the politicans to get on with brexit and to work together for the benefit of the country at a time of major national change. Sadly that's not the way our modern politicans work.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975


How do you think more uncertainty, created by Labour, will help the pound?

I have no problem with them trying to get what they want from the negotiations. But what they're doing is going further than that and isn't right.


I don't know but does the Tory government even listen to the opposition, did they for example propose a cross party platform to agree on the way forward? I don't think so, therefore it's normal for the opposition to do their job, no?

And I don't think things will get any more uncertain than with your divided government, looks to me that anything would be better. If May cannot even convince/lead her cabinet how can she work with the opposition or unite the country?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 06:14 PM

Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?


It may prevent a no deal wilki.

Also no deal is going to be better than the deal Britain already has/had with the EU.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?


I think Labour will negotiate a customs union deal with the EU which according to me is acceptable by most. It's true you will not be able to negotiate trade deals on your own but will benefit from all the trade deals you have been benefiting for decades and there is more to come. The Irish border issue will be solved and so would uncontrolled migration. You might have to pay something for it but you will benefit more than what you pay. The Brexiters in labour care mainly about uncontrolled migration. In fact Chequers is to some extent a customs union but where you can have your own trade deals and therefore differing tariffs, which doesn't make any sense as they are mutually exclusive and too complicated.

That said, I don't think raising taxes and forcing companies to give away 10% of their shares will attract investors. So yes, from what I have seen,a Labour government would get you a better deal instead of the limbo you are in now, but I don't think the current Labour is good for business, therefore the economy. Don't know what happened to the Blairites, not Blair but the Blairites.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?


It may prevent a no deal wilki.

Also no deal is going to be better than the deal Britain already has/had with the EU.


The only way it would prevent a no deal is if they would go there and bend over for the eu. Thatís leaving without leaving and would be s massive kop out. That wouldnít make them good negotiators as even I could do that.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:43 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?


I think Labour will negotiate a customs union deal with the EU which according to me is acceptable by most. It's true you will not be able to negotiate trade deals on your own but will benefit from all the trade deals you have been benefiting for decades and there is more to come. The Irish border issue will be solved and so would uncontrolled migration. You might have to pay something for it but you will benefit more than what you pay. The Brexiters in labour care mainly about uncontrolled migration. In fact Chequers is to some extent a customs union but where you can have your own trade deals and therefore differing tariffs, which doesn't make any sense as they are mutually exclusive and too complicated.

That said, I don't think raising taxes and forcing companies to give away 10% of their shares will attract investors. So yes, from what I have seen,a Labour government would get you a better deal instead of the limbo you are in now, but I don't think the current Labour is good for business, therefore the economy. Don't know what happened to the Blairites, not Blair but the Blairites.


So basically the softest of brexits? How would the 52% of voters who wanted to leave feel about that? Not good Iíd imagine. But itís the only way theyíd get a deal in such a short time and the eu would absolutely love it (and not doubt be p!ssing themselves with laughter while accepting it). I also wonder whether labour would put their deal to a public vote like theyíre calling for now?

I completely agree about their policies though. They havenít a fecking clue and would drive business from this country. Their policies are outdated and would have worked 59 years ago let alone now.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Do you think Labour would be any less divided? Do you know how most labour voters /areas voted in the referendum?

And there should have been a cross party group for dealing with brexit. But labour, for me, are going beyond what the need to be doing at this moment. Trying to force a general election this close to our exit isnít trying to help itís trying to seize power any way they can. Itís a pathetic attempt to get where they probably never should.

Let me ask you though. Should they force a general election, do you think that would help us get s better deal?


I think Labour will negotiate a customs union deal with the EU which according to me is acceptable by most. It's true you will not be able to negotiate trade deals on your own but will benefit from all the trade deals you have been benefiting for decades and there is more to come. The Irish border issue will be solved and so would uncontrolled migration. You might have to pay something for it but you will benefit more than what you pay. The Brexiters in labour care mainly about uncontrolled migration. In fact Chequers is to some extent a customs union but where you can have your own trade deals and therefore differing tariffs, which doesn't make any sense as they are mutually exclusive and too complicated.

That said, I don't think raising taxes and forcing companies to give away 10% of their shares will attract investors. So yes, from what I have seen,a Labour government would get you a better deal instead of the limbo you are in now, but I don't think the current Labour is good for business, therefore the economy. Don't know what happened to the Blairites, not Blair but the Blairites.


So basically the softest of brexits? How would the 52% of voters who wanted to leave feel about that? Not good Iíd imagine. But itís the only way theyíd get a deal in such a short time and the eu would absolutely love it (and not doubt be p!ssing themselves with laughter while accepting it). I also wonder whether labour would put their deal to a public vote like theyíre calling for now?

I completely agree about their policies though. They havenít a fecking clue and would drive business from this country. Their policies are outdated and would have worked 59 years ago let alone now.


No, the softest of deals is a Norway like one ie part of the customs union AND the EU single market. I am talking about being ONLY in the customs union like Turkey, how can that be the softest of Brexits? Most of the 52% would be happy as you will be able to control immigration
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 08:18 PM

It still wouldn't be the Brexit that a lot voted for and would also have to pass through the EU. No guarantee of that in what would be a lot less than the 6 months left now. The EU would most definitely have us over a barrel with our pants down.

And like I asked, do you think Labour should or would put any deal they could come up with to a public vote like they want now?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 25/09/18 10:34 PM

Immigration was the sole reason for most of the leave vote.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 02:37 AM

Unless there is a deal we leave on no deal that's the current act of parliment. To stop that would require a reversing act of parliment (a majority of MP,s would need to reverse the act they have just agreed the justification for that will be interesting) then all 27 EU countries will have to agree. If just one objects the process cannot be allowed. That's a lot of very big hurdles to cross. Assuming that is achieved then after the biggest British vote in history our lovely politicians will tell the people we are not allowing you to leave your vote is meaningless. That's going to be fun to watch
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 03:35 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Unless there is a deal we leave on no deal that's the current act of parliment. To stop that would require a reversing act of parliment (a majority of MP,s would need to reverse the act they have just agreed the justification for that will be interesting) then all 27 EU countries will have to agree. If just one objects the process cannot be allowed. That's a lot of very big hurdles to cross. Assuming that is achieved then after the biggest British vote in history our lovely politicians will tell the people we are not allowing you to leave your vote is meaningless. That's going to be fun to watch


You mean it will get even funnier than it has been since the vote?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 05:01 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Unless there is a deal we leave on no deal that's the current act of parliment. To stop that would require a reversing act of parliment (a majority of MP,s would need to reverse the act they have just agreed the justification for that will be interesting) then all 27 EU countries will have to agree. If just one objects the process cannot be allowed. That's a lot of very big hurdles to cross. Assuming that is achieved then after the biggest British vote in history our lovely politicians will tell the people we are not allowing you to leave your vote is meaningless. That's going to be fun to watch


You mean it will get even funnier than it has been since the vote?


I agree our politcians have been an utter disgrace. But this now is the last throw of the remoaners dice
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:21 AM

Originally Posted By lumba
Immigration was the sole reason for most of the leave vote.


Was it? Where have you seen those figures?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:40 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Unless there is a deal we leave on no deal that's the current act of parliment. To stop that would require a reversing act of parliment (a majority of MP,s would need to reverse the act they have just agreed the justification for that will be interesting) then all 27 EU countries will have to agree. If just one objects the process cannot be allowed. That's a lot of very big hurdles to cross. Assuming that is achieved then after the biggest British vote in history our lovely politicians will tell the people we are not allowing you to leave your vote is meaningless. That's going to be fun to watch


You mean it will get even funnier than it has been since the vote?


I agree our politcians have been an utter disgrace. But this now is the last throw of the remoaners dice


I don't think it's only what you call remoaners. Yesterday May said that a Canada type agreement would be worse than a no deal but Rees Mogg, Davis, Boris only want a Canada type agreement, they are all Brexiters in the Tory party, so how do you sort that out? What does Labour got to do with this?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
It still wouldn't be the Brexit that a lot voted for and would also have to pass through the EU. No guarantee of that in what would be a lot less than the 6 months left now. The EU would most definitely have us over a barrel with our pants down.

And like I asked, do you think Labour should or would put any deal they could come up with to a public vote like they want now?


I am not sure what Brexit a lot of people voted for, are you? Labour recently said that if the majority of their members want to put any deal to the public, they would do so, I don't know what else they could say or do. If May cannot lead the Tory party to a consensus, then of course the opposition should try, it's their job. I understand you feel them incapable to do better, but who knows?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
Immigration was the sole reason for most of the leave vote.


Was it? Where have you seen those figures?
I don't need figures Wilki.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
Immigration was the sole reason for most of the leave vote.


Was it? Where have you seen those figures?
I don't need figures Wilki.


Oh ok.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:22 PM

What do you think the majority voted for then ?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 07:30 PM

Remember this? ... Goebbels would be so proud.



Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 26/09/18 09:43 PM

How do I know what they voted for? I voted remain. Iím sure there were a number for which immigration was the main thing but I doubt it was the majority and without any numbers itís pure assumption.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 03:44 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
How do I know what they voted for? I voted remain. Iím sure there were a number for which immigration was the main thing but I doubt it was the majority and without any numbers itís pure assumption.


Indeed it can only be an assumption but I doubt most wanted to mainly go and negotiate trade deals with China and India on their own.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 07:31 AM

Again an assumption. Granted an easy one to make having voted for something being sold by Farage but is a little unfair to those who had genuine reasons, whatever that may have been.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 08:41 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Again an assumption. Granted an easy one to make having voted for something being sold by Farage but is a little unfair to those who had genuine reasons, whatever that may have been.


Yes, not knowing what the majority of Brexiters wanted through Brexit is making this whole process ever so difficult and dividing. As in business, of you don't know what your client wants you will struggle to sell and make money. In business again, you would do a marketing survey to find out first and also use macro economic projections to assume the future, but for that, you need to have some level of trust to experts. So now nobody really knows.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 09:14 AM

People all have their reason for voting the way they did but with no clear vision of what Brexit would be I find it really hard to see why anyone would vote for it. Even worse was they were voting for something, in some cases, that was being sold by people who had no power to deliver it.

It's just bonkers and is a right mess which is why it needs putting to bed as quickly as possible hence why I'm so p!ssed of at what Labour are doing. They'd do no better in getting a deal as even they don't know that what they'd propose would be accepted.

They're just trying to seize power at the worst possible time which is just plain wrong. You can say they're just being the opposition and what they have to but they're going beyond that at such a crucial time. To me they just look like a selfish bunch of cvnts trying to look after themselves and not the best interests of the country. And even if they did get in now, the time they have to get a deal will mean it won't be the best deal for the UK but for the EU.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
People all have their reason for voting the way they did but with no clear vision of what Brexit would be I find it really hard to see why anyone would vote for it. Even worse was they were voting for something, in some cases, that was being sold by people who had no power to deliver it.

It's just bonkers and is a right mess which is why it needs putting to bed as quickly as possible hence why I'm so p!ssed of at what Labour are doing. They'd do no better in getting a deal as even they don't know that what they'd propose would be accepted.

They're just trying to seize power at the worst possible time which is just plain wrong. You can say they're just being the opposition and what they have to but they're going beyond that at such a crucial time. To me they just look like a selfish bunch of cvnts trying to look after themselves and not the best interests of the country. And even if they did get in now, the time they have to get a deal will mean it won't be the best deal for the UK but for the EU.


It doesn't matter who is negotiating on behalf of the UK. They are not going to leave the EU with a better deal than they currently have.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 02:56 PM

The genuine reasons for voting for Brexit was to go to your town centre and hear English again, instead of Polish,Bulgarian and Rumanian.

Now we are going to get Spanish and Portuguese, from Colombia and Brazil,to make up for the 5 % reduction in Eastern European immigration.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 03:13 PM

Good to know there hutchey!
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 03:15 PM

Thanks.

I wouldnt mind if pretty women only, arrived from these foreign places.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 04:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29RKnB7l7o
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
The genuine reasons for voting for Brexit was to go to your town centre and hear English again, instead of Polish,Bulgarian and Rumanian.

Now we are going to get Spanish and Portuguese, from Colombia and Brazil,to make up for the 5 % reduction in Eastern European immigration.


If that is true then that would show the narrowmindedness of those Brexiters. I think the more languages you know the better it is.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 06:05 PM

sono d'accordo Vish.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 27/09/18 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
sono d'accordo Vish.


TrŤs bien
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/09/18 07:29 AM

Speak English boys! We didnít vote brexit for this foreign muck.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 28/09/18 12:35 PM

Watched "this week" last night and they interviewed the excellent Kate Andrews about a amended Canada plus type deal, Micheal Portillo agreed with her analysis but said May will not change chequers before next weeks tory conference but after that we could see an about turn. And that could be the direction things go. The EU has already offered that so a variant of that could be how it ends up with elements of chequers to save face. My guess (which I have said from day one) is there are two elements. One is the negotiations which are serious, ongoing and technical by officials. The second element is the political theatre. That's why I believe it's important to judge yourself rather than follow every daily press headline. Of course none of us knows but that's my feeling at the moment
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 03:01 AM


Why is Mauritius first in line for UN sustained development, and have begun their Smart settlements?

Corruption at every level.

Time to get out.Isle of Man is tax free and within range of Anfield.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1

Why is Mauritius first in line for UN sustained development, and have begun their Smart settlements?

Corruption at every level.

Time to get out.Isle of Man is tax free and within range of Anfield.






Please don't talk about something you don't know, smart cities doesn't even represent 1% of our cities and it's a new concept to encourage promoters to build in a sustainable way, nobody is being moved out of their homes, these were are today a few acres of bare land or sugarcane fields. Stop talking shyte.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 01:25 PM

What part of "begun" didnt you understand.

Cant beloeve you fell for the BS explanation from the UN.

Good luck.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
What part of "begun" didnt you understand.

Cant beloeve you fell for the BS explanation from the UN.

Good luck.


Can't believe you are so mad
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 08:30 PM

No idea what this is about but given Vish has spent the last two years telling British people how to run their country it's going to be fun telling the Mauritian people how to run theirs. Let me make my position clear whatever they are doing it's wrong.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 09:15 PM

Pantomime season starting early this year.

Tory party conference beginning next week.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 29/09/18 09:28 PM

Yep and kicked off by labour.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 05:45 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No idea what this is about but given Vish has spent the last two years telling British people how to run their country it's going to be fun telling the Mauritian people how to run theirs. Let me make my position clear whatever they are doing it's wrong.


You are probably right but our cabinet is United and the government
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No idea what this is about but given Vish has spent the last two years telling British people how to run their country it's going to be fun telling the Mauritian people how to run theirs. Let me make my position clear whatever they are doing it's wrong.


You are probably right but our cabinet is United and the government


Where all politicians agree is this good or a sign of weak democracy ?
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 02:28 PM

Mauritius decided to open up an embassy in Israel.

Israeli companies are offering tax free offshore accounts in Mauritius.
Together with HSBC and Barclays.

So the City of London owns the central bank and Israel is running the economy.
The UN owns the countryside.

Whats left for the population -coconuts and bananas.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
Mauritius decided to open up an embassy in Israel.

Israeli companies are offering tax free offshore accounts in Mauritius.
Together with HSBC and Barclays.

So the City of London owns the central bank and Israel is running the economy.
The UN owns the countryside.

Whats left for the population -coconuts and bananas.


I am shocked to hear this what a shambles ! The people of Mauritius would do well to listen to what I think I know far more about their country than they do.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No idea what this is about but given Vish has spent the last two years telling British people how to run their country it's going to be fun telling the Mauritian people how to run theirs. Let me make my position clear whatever they are doing it's wrong.


You are probably right but our cabinet is United and the government


Where all politicians agree is this good or a sign of weak democracy ?


In the cabinet, really? Who needs an opposition then?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Markhutch1
Mauritius decided to open up an embassy in Israel.

Israeli companies are offering tax free offshore accounts in Mauritius.
Together with HSBC and Barclays.

So the City of London owns the central bank and Israel is running the economy.
The UN owns the countryside.

Whats left for the population -coconuts and bananas.


I am shocked to hear this what a shambles ! The people of Mauritius would do well to listen to what I think I know far more about their country than they do.


That guy is fking crazy, Mauritius is not opening any embassy in Israel and Barclays in Mauritius now is ABSA (Barclays divested from Africa), but yes we do have all the major banks here as we have the most advanced financial services sector in Africa.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Markhutch1
Mauritius decided to open up an embassy in Israel.

Israeli companies are offering tax free offshore accounts in Mauritius.
Together with HSBC and Barclays.

So the City of London owns the central bank and Israel is running the economy.
The UN owns the countryside.

Whats left for the population -coconuts and bananas.


I am shocked to hear this what a shambles ! The people of Mauritius would do well to listen to what I think I know far more about their country than they do.


Try to learn about your own country first, it might help you open up your perspective, the empire will not strike back, believe me.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 06:30 PM

Consulate of Mauritius in Tel Aviv,Israel.

2 1BN Gvirol Street

Tel Aviv

Consul general - N.J Regev.


Israeli Consulate General in Mauritius

25 Lionel Cox Street

Port Louis
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
Consulate of Mauritius in Tel Aviv,Israel.

2 1BN Gvirol Street

Tel Aviv

Consul general - N.J Regev.


Israeli Consulate General in Mauritius

25 Lionel Cox Street

Port Louis



A consulate is not an embassy and the consul is not a Mauritian. Are you saying we shouldn't have any diplomatic relationship with Israel like the Islamic republics or what? Most civilised countries have it. I don't even know why you brought this Israel embassy up, what's your point? Wtf are you talking about, you are crazy?
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 07:33 PM

A consulate is a small embassy.

A little strange for a 3rd world country in Africa to have one of these in Israel.

Particularly as you have concerns about Israeli treatment of the Palestinians - I would have expected you to be disappointed that your country has such close ties with Israel.

However,principles can be compromised when defending Mauritius, which it seems you have limited knowledge of.

Must be because you know that Israel effectively runs Mauritius with their offshore companies.

Shalom.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 30/09/18 09:43 PM

ITV's Daniel Hewitt on the Tory Party Conference

Jeremy Hunt: Chequers is not dead.
Iain Duncan Smith: Chequers is dead.
Julian Smith: Chequers is not dead.
Marcus Fysh: Chequers is dead.
Jeremy Wright: Chequers is not dead.

Now that is a United front.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 03:42 AM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
A consulate is a small embassy.

A little strange for a 3rd world country in Africa to have one of these in Israel.

Particularly as you have concerns about Israeli treatment of the Palestinians - I would have expected you to be disappointed that your country has such close ties with Israel.

However,principles can be compromised when defending Mauritius, which it seems you have limited knowledge of.

Must be because you know that Israel effectively runs Mauritius with their offshore companies.

Shalom.




I don't have any issues with the existence of the state of Israel but with the policies of the current government, if you can understand the difference, though I doubt it and we have diplomatic relationship with almost every country of the world. A consulate is not a small embassy you fool, it's a local person representing us for admin matters, it's basically an office, I know this as a fact as I have a couple of colleagues who are consuls of foreign countries.

Coming to running Mauritius, we have embassies (Not consulates) in UK, France, India, Pakistan, US, South Africa, Madagascar, Mozambique, Australia to name some, are they all running Mauritius? Anyway i prefer not discuss with a crazy guy, let's keep it there.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 03:44 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
ITV's Daniel Hewitt on the Tory Party Conference

Jeremy Hunt: Chequers is not dead.
Iain Duncan Smith: Chequers is dead.
Julian Smith: Chequers is not dead.
Marcus Fysh: Chequers is dead.
Jeremy Wright: Chequers is not dead.

Now that is a United front.







It's democracy...apparently. Some people would justify any shyte.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 07:15 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
ITV's Daniel Hewitt on the Tory Party Conference

Jeremy Hunt: Chequers is not dead.
Iain Duncan Smith: Chequers is dead.
Julian Smith: Chequers is not dead.
Marcus Fysh: Chequers is dead.
Jeremy Wright: Chequers is not dead.

Now that is a United front.







Just like labour, theyíre keeping everything on the table. Apart from a new referendum. But everything is still on the table.

All a united front isnít it?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 07:16 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
ITV's Daniel Hewitt on the Tory Party Conference

Jeremy Hunt: Chequers is not dead.
Iain Duncan Smith: Chequers is dead.
Julian Smith: Chequers is not dead.
Marcus Fysh: Chequers is dead.
Jeremy Wright: Chequers is not dead.

Now that is a United front.







It's democracy...apparently. Some people would justify any shyte.


It is democracy isnít it? Everyone has a voice and a choice? Should we turn into a dictatorship?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 08:48 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
ITV's Daniel Hewitt on the Tory Party Conference

Jeremy Hunt: Chequers is not dead.
Iain Duncan Smith: Chequers is dead.
Julian Smith: Chequers is not dead.
Marcus Fysh: Chequers is dead.
Jeremy Wright: Chequers is not dead.

Now that is a United front.







It's democracy...apparently. Some people would justify any shyte.


It is democracy isnít it? Everyone has a voice and a choice? Should we turn into a dictatorship?


Voicing out your opposition IN PUBLIC while you are part of the same team/cabinet/party is not democracy but anarchy. You should sort your differences within your party.

No problem however when the opposition makes noise in public though, this is true democracy, something you were completely against a few days back. Are you saying that when the Tories make the noise against your PM it's democracy but not when the opposition is doing it? Looks completely biassed to me.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 08:52 AM

Not at all. I never said I was in favour of any torries doing what labour are. I also said itís fine for labour to voice their opinions on the matter. You see, democracy. I also said that the torries trying to get a personal gain from this are dirty little cvnts the same as Corbyn and his cronies.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Not at all. I never said I was in favour of any torries doing what labour are. I also said itís fine for labour to voice their opinions on the matter. You see, democracy. I also said that the torries trying to get a personal gain from this are dirty little cvnts the same as Corbyn and his cronies.


That's fair enough wilki, but the tories are supposed to be negotiating a Brexit deal right now.
Instead we have continued infighting and no clear idea of what it is that they are trying to achieve.
Boris's attacks on May and his refusal to rule himself out of a leadership challenge merely add fuel to the fire.
One certainty is that whatever deal they cobble together at this late stage will be worse than the deal they have at present.
Then, the negative impact post Brexit will most likely hand Corbyn the keys to No.10
The tories seem hell bent on destroying themselves but they may take the country with them before they are finished
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 01:54 PM

I agree the Tory party need to come together and agree on brexit the danger is we end up with a lunatic Marxist government in the UK then we really will have something to worry about. The mood music now seems to be deliver brexit and move on to running the country the labour conference had a lot of new ideas (albeit financially ruinous) but if the Tories are seen to be squabbling and back stabbing that could let in Corbyn and his soviet style governance. In terms of the deal my guess it's a chequers and Canada variant pitched in such a way it pacifies the hard brexiteers and allows Theresa May to claim it's the chequers deal in form. That's what I think will happen but the political wind is very definitely non brexit issues now and so expect brexit to be delivered swiftly. I still maintain in my opinion there will definitely be a deal although obviously I don't know
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 02:02 PM

As for Mauritius they are doing everything wrong the country is a mess the government a shambles. I am an expert on Mauritius

Don't want to boast but I have read about it on sky news website
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Not at all. I never said I was in favour of any torries doing what labour are. I also said itís fine for labour to voice their opinions on the matter. You see, democracy. I also said that the torries trying to get a personal gain from this are dirty little cvnts the same as Corbyn and his cronies.


That's fair enough wilki, but the tories are supposed to be negotiating a Brexit deal right now.
Instead we have continued infighting and no clear idea of what it is that they are trying to achieve.
Boris's attacks on May and his refusal to rule himself out of a leadership challenge merely add fuel to the fire.
One certainty is that whatever deal they cobble together at this late stage will be worse than the deal they have at present.
Then, the negative impact post Brexit will most likely hand Corbyn the keys to No.10
The tories seem hell bent on destroying themselves but they may take the country with them before they are finished


Yeah theyíre all shitte houses thatís for sure. This is the time when ALL parties should be working together and not trying to get a personal gain. I had no real respect for politicians before this and even less now.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 05:41 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As for Mauritius they are doing everything wrong the country is a mess the government a shambles. I am an expert on Mauritius

Don't want to boast but I have read about it on sky news website


You don't have sky news on your tv?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As for Mauritius they are doing everything wrong the country is a mess the government a shambles. I am an expert on Mauritius

Don't want to boast but I have read about it on sky news website


You don't have sky news on your tv?


I do but the news from your country is so bad I am only able to see it online and I take my time only watching small bits at carefully planned intervals. . It would be too much to bear on TV in real time. I am an expert me !
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As for Mauritius they are doing everything wrong the country is a mess the government a shambles. I am an expert on Mauritius

Don't want to boast but I have read about it on sky news website


You don't have sky news on your tv?


I do but the news from your country is so bad I am only able to see it online and I take my time only watching small bits at carefully planned intervals. . It would be too much to bear on TV in real time. I am an expert me !


I think you need to get yourself checked, you are losing it. I suppose the hospitals are too crowded with EU cheap migrants for you to get an appointment, don't worry everything will be great after the 29th of March, hospitals will be free. Only a few months.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 01/10/18 08:28 PM

Hospitals are free now
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 02:43 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Hospitals are free now


But overcrowded with EU nationals, right?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Hospitals are free now


But overcrowded with EU nationals, right?


They are a bit yeah. When my wife gave birth and went to the post natal ward she was one of the few English people in there.

I know this is only one incident but if itís the same country wide then it will be straining the nhs as the eu nationals wonít have paid that much in through taxes and national insurance.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Hospitals are free now


But overcrowded with EU nationals, right?


Millions of mainly unskilled poor people have come over from the poorest ex soviet parts of the EU and good for them I don't blame them. However this has caused massive strain on housing and public services as you admit. The main people suffering are the poor people in Britain of which there are a lot. Post brexit we will still have immigration (we need it) but it will be skills based and on need. Pretty much like the immigration system in most of the world including Mauritius. You are once again making fun of the British but you would never accept that situation in your own country.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Hospitals are free now


But overcrowded with EU nationals, right?


Millions of mainly unskilled poor people have come over from the poorest ex soviet parts of the EU and good for them I don't blame them. However this has caused massive strain on housing and public services as you admit. The main people suffering are the poor people in Britain of which there are a lot. Post brexit we will still have immigration (we need it) but it will be skills based and on need. Pretty much like the immigration system in most of the world including Mauritius. You are once again making fun of the British but you would never accept that situation in your own country.


We have a lot of Blangladesh and Chinese workers who work in our garment industry and without them there would be no textiles factories and hundreds of Mauritian workers (supervisors, managers, sales people, accountants to name a few) would lose their jobs. You might have to face that soon, a good case to study then. Maybe things will be better though, I am impatient to see what happens.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 12:14 PM

The minimum wage jobs in the UK are exploitative.

If the overseas workers left,then the wages would rise to market value in order to recruit British workers.

A lot of the eastern europeans are working,but also getting subsidised
housing.

A couple living in a "cheap" area of London,in a 1 bedroom flat,would

need to earn a minimum of £30000 per year in the private sector.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 12:31 PM

You may have a lot of Chinese workers Vish and I am sure they are needed and make a valuable contribution. However the key point you have missed is your government is in control. Would you accept a foreign power having control of your government and societies immingration policy ? I suspect not
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You may have a lot of Chinese workers Vish and I am sure they are needed and make a valuable contribution. However the key point you have missed is your government is in control. Would you accept a foreign power having control of your government and societies immingration policy ? I suspect not


Not if my government was not part of the decision making and had a veto, of course. However, your government was apparently very forceful about it, I wonder why and what has changed.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 12:52 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You may have a lot of Chinese workers Vish and I am sure they are needed and make a valuable contribution. However the key point you have missed is your government is in control. Would you accept a foreign power having control of your government and societies immingration policy ? I suspect not


Not if my government was not part of the decision making and had a veto, of course. However, your government was apparently very forceful about it, I wonder why and what has changed.


Not sure I understand our government was weak in the past in accepting the mastrict treaty which formed the EU it was done by stealth and john major the prime minster refused to allow the public a vote to join the EU because he knew what the answer would be. No British government was ever forceful about accepting freedom of movement it was something we had to endure until things got totally out of control. Mauritius would never accept the situation Britain was in and neither would you but you are happy to support it from thousands of miles away safe in the knowledge you are ok
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 01:11 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You may have a lot of Chinese workers Vish and I am sure they are needed and make a valuable contribution. However the key point you have missed is your government is in control. Would you accept a foreign power having control of your government and societies immingration policy ? I suspect not


Not if my government was not part of the decision making and had a veto, of course. However, your government was apparently very forceful about it, I wonder why and what has changed.


Not sure I understand our government was weak in the past in accepting the mastrict treaty which formed the EU it was done by stealth and john major the prime minster refused to allow the public a vote to join the EU because he knew what the answer would be. No British government was ever forceful about accepting freedom of movement it was something we had to endure until things got totally out of control. Mauritius would never accept the situation Britain was in and neither would you but you are happy to support it from thousands of miles away safe in the knowledge you are ok


Ok, but why is it that all your governments from John Major to Cameron wanted the UK to stay in the EU? Any explanation? In fact, I think even now, only a minority want out completely, the likes of Patel, Rees Mogg, Boris, Davies etc, else May would have lost her job.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 01:21 PM

The EU is another career for MP,s and a very lucrative one too. Once there career in the UK government stalls or is over they go to the lords or become an MEP or EU commissoner. But you are confused Vish our democracy is based on what the people think and want MP,s are supposed to implement it. To be fair I understand why you are confused so am I our political class is self serving and has been for a long time.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The EU is another career for MP,s and a very lucrative one too. Once there career in the UK government stalls or is over they go to the lords or become an MEP or EU commissoner. But you are confused Vish our democracy is based on what the people think and want MP,s are supposed to implement it. To be fair I understand why you are confused so am I our political class is self serving and has been for a long time.


Yes, must say I am confused
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The EU is another career for MP,s and a very lucrative one too. Once there career in the UK government stalls or is over they go to the lords or become an MEP or EU commissoner. But you are confused Vish our democracy is based on what the people think and want MP,s are supposed to implement it. To be fair I understand why you are confused so am I our political class is self serving and has been for a long time.


Yes, must say I am confused


There is (and has been for many years) a vast gulf between the political class and the people in Britain. But it's not just Britain the same is happening all over the EU and in the USA. I don't know much about Mauritius but I assume you have politicians who respect and work for the people. In which case you are very lucky
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The EU is another career for MP,s and a very lucrative one too. Once there career in the UK government stalls or is over they go to the lords or become an MEP or EU commissoner. But you are confused Vish our democracy is based on what the people think and want MP,s are supposed to implement it. To be fair I understand why you are confused so am I our political class is self serving and has been for a long time.


Yes, must say I am confused


There is (and has been for many years) a vast gulf between the political class and the people in Britain. But it's not just Britain the same is happening all over the EU and in the USA. I don't know much about Mauritius but I assume you have politicians who respect and work for the people. In which case you are very lucky


No, we also have politicians who look after themselves too much, probably more than UK, however, most of our governments have worked more or less closely with the private sector/ business, because without it, there will be no investment and we'll end up like Cuba and the likes (not too many these days). What I find extraordinary with Brexit is that the Tory hard Brexiters, who are supposedly pro business, are saying fk business. From experience I know that business know more about the economy than the government.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 04:47 PM

I don't think they are saying fk business Vish boris Johnson might have said it but he not the government. The government has shaped the chequers deal to help manufacturing business. However it's wrong to assume brexit will affect all businesses in the UK equally many sectors will gain from brexit from day one.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I don't think they are saying fk business Vish boris Johnson might have said it but he not the government. The government has shaped the chequers deal to help manufacturing business. However it's wrong to assume brexit will affect all businesses in the UK equally many sectors will gain from brexit from day one.


Probably but which businesses would do better and what do they represent in your econony? I am sure that if the likes of BMW, Nissan, JLR, Airbus left, you'll have a major problem
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I don't think they are saying fk business Vish boris Johnson might have said it but he not the government. The government has shaped the chequers deal to help manufacturing business. However it's wrong to assume brexit will affect all businesses in the UK equally many sectors will gain from brexit from day one.


Probably but which businesses would do better and what do they represent in your econony? I am sure that if the likes of BMW, Nissan, JLR, Airbus left, you'll have a major problem


It wouldnt be good no - are they leaving then ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 10:52 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
our crazy leader is just sticking to the agreement, its your mad lot that are chasing their tails. and why worry...well it effects us believe it or not, whether we are in the eu or not.. crazy right? or absolutely perfectly logical and reality.. U stopped living in reality ?


Your thoughtful analysis is that putin owns our ass. Very good how long did it take you to come up with that gem from junior school. Britain has just taken delivery of 5th generation fighters F35 planes that will fly over your head protecting Ireland for free because Ireland can't afford an Air Force. Relations between Britain and Ireland have never been worse because of your prime minister. That has consequences pay for your own air defence or pusade the EU to do it for you. As for passports they should be introduced between mainland Britain and Ireland and future bail outs you can whistle.


Relations between Britain and Ireland were much worse during the plantation, the famine, the penal laws or whenever you invaded us.

The only nation to invade us is Britain, so you will be protecting us from yourselves. Thanks for that, I think.

You have no solution to the Irish border problem (a border that Britain created under threat of all out war) so you attack the Irish. Brexiteers really are strange people.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 11:07 PM

It wasn't really an invasion as in a war but a colonisation this was occurring all over Europe as any history book will tell you were you ever to read one. Scotland has invaded England France has invaded England

The colonisation of Ireland was in the 16th century brexit was not a part of that. But again it is in your world. There is probably no where else in the world that's still fighting battles of 400 years ago there was a civil war in England then in fact three civil wars never in my life have a met anyone who today is remotely bothered most probably could not even state those facts.

The fact there are still people like you is immensely depressing and it makes me think there is no hope for Ulster the bitterness and hatred are always under the surface and for what reason ? I don't believe it's anything to do with the 1600,s more likely turf wars over drugs / other crime and frankly very small minded communities where this is allowed to foster.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 02/10/18 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It wasn't really an invasion as in a war but a colonisation this was occurring all over Europe as any history book will tell you were you ever to read one. Scotland has invaded England France has invaded England

The colonisation of Ireland was in the 16th century brexit was not a part of that. But again it is in your world. There is probably no where else in the world that's still fighting battles of 400 years ago there was a civil war in England then in fact three civil wars never in my life have a met anyone who today is remotely bothered most probably could not even state those facts.

The fact there are still people like you is immensely depressing and it makes me think there is no hope for Ulster the bitterness and hatred are always under the surface and for what reason ? I don't believe it's anything to do with the 1600,s more likely turf wars over drugs / other crime and frankly very small minded communities where this is allowed to foster.


So your argument is that because something happened long ago it doesn't really count. Even if the consequences are still felt today. Also a brexiteer accusing others of being small minded is actually very funny.

Add that to the fact that you are literally huffing like a child because Ireland won't dance to Britain's tune and it still doesn't mean that you can post utter drivel.

Even at this late date we are still waiting for the brexiteers alternative plan that will break the deadlock and lead Britain into a period of wealth and prosperity.

What better time to launch this plan than during the Tory party conference, but unbelievably we are still waiting.

Surely they have a plan?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 04:51 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I don't think they are saying fk business Vish boris Johnson might have said it but he not the government. The government has shaped the chequers deal to help manufacturing business. However it's wrong to assume brexit will affect all businesses in the UK equally many sectors will gain from brexit from day one.


Probably but which businesses would do better and what do they represent in your econony? I am sure that if the likes of BMW, Nissan, JLR, Airbus left, you'll have a major problem


It wouldnt be good no - are they leaving then ?


Probably, if they are not happy with the deal
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 04:53 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
It wasn't really an invasion as in a war but a colonisation this was occurring all over Europe as any history book will tell you were you ever to read one. Scotland has invaded England France has invaded England

The colonisation of Ireland was in the 16th century brexit was not a part of that. But again it is in your world. There is probably no where else in the world that's still fighting battles of 400 years ago there was a civil war in England then in fact three civil wars never in my life have a met anyone who today is remotely bothered most probably could not even state those facts.

The fact there are still people like you is immensely depressing and it makes me think there is no hope for Ulster the bitterness and hatred are always under the surface and for what reason ? I don't believe it's anything to do with the 1600,s more likely turf wars over drugs / other crime and frankly very small minded communities where this is allowed to foster.


So your argument is that because something happened long ago it doesn't really count. Even if the consequences are still felt today. Also a brexiteer accusing others of being small minded is actually very funny.

Add that to the fact that you are literally huffing like a child because Ireland won't dance to Britain's tune and it still doesn't mean that you can post utter drivel.

Even at this late date we are still waiting for the brexiteers alternative plan that will break the deadlock and lead Britain into a period of wealth and prosperity.

What better time to launch this plan than during the Tory party conference, but unbelievably we are still waiting.

Surely they have a plan?


He keeps coming up with UK army defending ROI, not sure who is preparing the next invasion.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 11:19 AM

I would like to bet if I walked down the street in Derry and randomly asked people what happened in Ireland in the 1600's the average person would not have a clue. In the 1600's England had three civil wars that were far more bloody and discriminatory than anything in Ireland. But over here again the person in the street hasn't a clue. What's happening in Ulster is small minded bigotry plain and simple. Sectarianism is not unique to Northern Ireland in Liverpool in the 1920's there was violent sectarianism orange marches still take place today Glasgow still has mild sectarianism I remember in the 1970's end of term our catholic school used to have a mass fight with the prodestant school next door. We did so because we wanted to fight and they were different. We were children places like Glasgow and Liverpool have grown up. The only place that has not grown up is Northern Ireland where people kill one another simply because they live in a different street and have a different religion. To survive this requires stupidlity and it seems stupidity is not in short supply among some people in Northern Ireland. Thankfully as time progresses people like you shaggy full of bitterness and hatred of your neighbours (for no rational reason) are becoming less and less as society in Northern Ireland becomes more educated. Some immigration would do no harm either but whereas immigrants come to England in their millions for some reason Northern Ireland is not popular with them
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 05:45 PM

Must be the rain.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Must be the rain.


Yes I am sure that's the reason
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 06:34 PM

Do you think we'll get less rain when we leave?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Do you think we'll get less rain when we leave?


Without a doubt
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I would like to bet if I walked down the street in Derry and randomly asked people what happened in Ireland in the 1600's the average person would not have a clue. In the 1600's England had three civil wars that were far more bloody and discriminatory than anything in Ireland. But over here again the person in the street hasn't a clue. What's happening in Ulster is small minded bigotry plain and simple. Sectarianism is not unique to Northern Ireland in Liverpool in the 1920's there was violent sectarianism orange marches still take place today Glasgow still has mild sectarianism I remember in the 1970's end of term our catholic school used to have a mass fight with the prodestant school next door. We did so because we wanted to fight and they were different. We were children places like Glasgow and Liverpool have grown up. The only place that has not grown up is Northern Ireland where people kill one another simply because they live in a different street and have a different religion. To survive this requires stupidlity and it seems stupidity is not in short supply among some people in Northern Ireland. Thankfully as time progresses people like you shaggy full of bitterness and hatred of your neighbours (for no rational reason) are becoming less and less as society in Northern Ireland becomes more educated. Some immigration would do no harm either but whereas immigrants come to England in their millions for some reason Northern Ireland is not popular with them


Oh dear.

Still no Brexit plan then?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 10:46 PM

The English civil war in the 1600,s was partly fought over catholic and prodestants also if you look through English medieval history religion played a massive part in conflicts and segtarianism was normal.

After several centuries we grew up

Looking forward to the day when the men of evil in Northern Ireland grow up and their stupid supporters. Until that day there will never be peace and the innocents will suffer. Most people in Northern Ireland are decent people (even in the height of the troubles) Unfortunetly a few idiots and half wits still have influence
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 03/10/18 11:19 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The English civil war in the 1600,s was partly fought over catholic and prodestants also if you look through English medieval history religion played a massive part in conflicts and segtarianism was normal.

After several centuries we grew up

Looking forward to the day when the men of evil in Northern Ireland grow up and their stupid supporters. Until that day there will never be peace and the innocents will suffer. Most people in Northern Ireland are decent people (even in the height of the troubles) Unfortunetly a few idiots and half wits still have influence


Get all that hatred out Stan.

Meanwhile, any sign of a brexiteer plan to lead us all to a prosperous wealthy future?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/10/18 09:52 AM

To my mind the segtarianism in Northern Ireland is (in principle) no different to us schoolkids in the 1970's fighting the school next door because it was a prodestant school. They were different to us so let's fight it's a natural human reaction we are tribal animals and the same can be seen across the world. But in modern educated society in most places we have evolved out of it. Some friends of mine recently had a booze up in Northern Ireland they enjoyed it Belfast they said was a nice city. As you know terrorism history is now a tourist attraction they went to Derry and the areas of Belfast in the taxi tour of the gruesome tales. What they were shocked about was how small it is and how close the warring sides are to each other. World famous names like the shankhill and falls road are right next to each other. The murals are still there and literally one street can have prodestant murals mocking the Catholics and a streer or two away is the same for the Catholics mocking the prodestants. Complete and utter madness. I don't buy this is due to what happened in the 1600,s far worse things happened in the English civil war at the same time villages who refused to yield were put to the sword and burnt to the ground in England yet today no one bothers most are totally unaware of the history the X factor is what most think of. To me Northern Ireland is a tribal thing that's got out of hand. As for brexit I am reluctantly supporting the chequers agreement I am not totally happy but given the internal politics it's probably the only realistic option.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 04/10/18 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To my mind the segtarianism in Northern Ireland is (in principle) no different to us schoolkids in the 1970's fighting the school next door because it was a prodestant school. They were different to us so let's fight it's a natural human reaction we are tribal animals and the same can be seen across the world. But in modern educated society in most places we have evolved out of it. Some friends of mine recently had a booze up in Northern Ireland they enjoyed it Belfast they said was a nice city. As you know terrorism history is now a tourist attraction they went to Derry and the areas of Belfast in the taxi tour of the gruesome tales. What they were shocked about was how small it is and how close the warring sides are to each other. World famous names like the shankhill and falls road are right next to each other. The murals are still there and literally one street can have prodestant murals mocking the Catholics and a streer or two away is the same for the Catholics mocking the prodestants. Complete and utter madness. I don't buy this is due to what happened in the 1600,s far worse things happened in the English civil war at the same time villages who refused to yield were put to the sword and burnt to the ground in England yet today no one bothers most are totally unaware of the history the X factor is what most think of. To me Northern Ireland is a tribal thing that's got out of hand. As for brexit I am reluctantly supporting the chequers agreement I am not totally happy but given the internal politics it's probably the only realistic option.


Tory conference all week and still no brexiteer plan?

Brexit in Name Only it is then.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 05/10/18 11:56 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To my mind the segtarianism in Northern Ireland is (in principle) no different to us schoolkids in the 1970's fighting the school next door because it was a prodestant school. They were different to us so let's fight it's a natural human reaction we are tribal animals and the same can be seen across the world. But in modern educated society in most places we have evolved out of it. Some friends of mine recently had a booze up in Northern Ireland they enjoyed it Belfast they said was a nice city. As you know terrorism history is now a tourist attraction they went to Derry and the areas of Belfast in the taxi tour of the gruesome tales. What they were shocked about was how small it is and how close the warring sides are to each other. World famous names like the shankhill and falls road are right next to each other. The murals are still there and literally one street can have prodestant murals mocking the Catholics and a streer or two away is the same for the Catholics mocking the prodestants. Complete and utter madness. I don't buy this is due to what happened in the 1600,s far worse things happened in the English civil war at the same time villages who refused to yield were put to the sword and burnt to the ground in England yet today no one bothers most are totally unaware of the history the X factor is what most think of. To me Northern Ireland is a tribal thing that's got out of hand. As for brexit I am reluctantly supporting the chequers agreement I am not totally happy but given the internal politics it's probably the only realistic option.


Tory conference all week and still no brexiteer plan?

Brexit in Name Only it is then.


The brexiteer plan is probably Canada plus. Who knows what the final deal will be but michael portillo on this week last night re-affirmed his view post tory conference May will move to a chequers (so she can say its her deal) and tweaked canada (to get the brexiteers onside). Thats my view also which to be fair to me I have posted quite a few times in the last weeks. I do think a deal will be agreed the problem is the politics both in UK and EU but mainly UK
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 06/10/18 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To my mind the segtarianism in Northern Ireland is (in principle) no different to us schoolkids in the 1970's fighting the school next door because it was a prodestant school. They were different to us so let's fight it's a natural human reaction we are tribal animals and the same can be seen across the world. But in modern educated society in most places we have evolved out of it. Some friends of mine recently had a booze up in Northern Ireland they enjoyed it Belfast they said was a nice city. As you know terrorism history is now a tourist attraction they went to Derry and the areas of Belfast in the taxi tour of the gruesome tales. What they were shocked about was how small it is and how close the warring sides are to each other. World famous names like the shankhill and falls road are right next to each other. The murals are still there and literally one street can have prodestant murals mocking the Catholics and a streer or two away is the same for the Catholics mocking the prodestants. Complete and utter madness. I don't buy this is due to what happened in the 1600,s far worse things happened in the English civil war at the same time villages who refused to yield were put to the sword and burnt to the ground in England yet today no one bothers most are totally unaware of the history the X factor is what most think of. To me Northern Ireland is a tribal thing that's got out of hand. As for brexit I am reluctantly supporting the chequers agreement I am not totally happy but given the internal politics it's probably the only realistic option.


Tory conference all week and still no brexiteer plan?

Brexit in Name Only it is then.


The brexiteer plan is probably Canada plus. Who knows what the final deal will be but michael portillo on this week last night re-affirmed his view post tory conference May will move to a chequers (so she can say its her deal) and tweaked canada (to get the brexiteers onside). Thats my view also which to be fair to me I have posted quite a few times in the last weeks. I do think a deal will be agreed the problem is the politics both in UK and EU but mainly UK


There are no politics in EU, this is what the British have been getting wrong, there are rules that needs to be followed, otherwise the EU will have a big chance of disintegration. It will either be customs union, what is favoured by May and remainers or a Canada style trade agreement but with a solution for NI, that's the most complicated. With a Canada type deal, major manufacturing multinationals will move out.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 07/10/18 09:09 PM

No politics in the EU are you joking ?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 07:54 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No politics in the EU are you joking ?


What politics, as everybody says, they are not even elected. Do you see the commission fighting each other over the deal? I see it in UK, not only between parties, but within parties. For the EU there are already options to choose from, the only complication is NI.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No politics in the EU are you joking ?


What politics, as everybody says, they are not even elected. Do you see the commission fighting each other over the deal? I see it in UK, not only between parties, but within parties. For the EU there are already options to choose from, the only complication is NI.


The EU has a commission which is not elected but highly political many of whom are regularly in the press juncker is almost a celebrity. Then we have the heads of the 27 EU states who are elected. I don't see the commission fighting over the brexit deal but I bet behind closed doors there is plenty going on. The EU commision is practically at war with many of the EU member states Italy Poland and Hungary spring to mind. In the electorate in Europe things are in meltdown with far right and left parties coming to power alongside riots. No politics in the EU ? Really ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No politics in the EU are you joking ?


What politics, as everybody says, they are not even elected. Do you see the commission fighting each other over the deal? I see it in UK, not only between parties, but within parties. For the EU there are already options to choose from, the only complication is NI.


The EU has a commission which is not elected but highly political many of whom are regularly in the press juncker is almost a celebrity. Then we have the heads of the 27 EU states who are elected. I don't see the commission fighting over the brexit deal but I bet behind closed doors there is plenty going on. The EU commision is practically at war with many of the EU member states Italy Poland and Hungary spring to mind. In the electorate in Europe things are in meltdown with far right and left parties coming to power alongside riots. No politics in the EU ? Really ?


You have no idea what is going on behind closed doors at the EU. Not surprisingly you assume the worst.

As a brexiteer you should be more concerned with the fact that those who delivered Brexit have no plan to deliver any kind of a feasible Brexit plan going forward. We discovered that last week at the Tory party conference. Their silence was deafening.

May for all her faults, has tried to patch something together. Ultimately she will make further concessions to secure a deal and the brexiteer cowards will condemn her, despite the fact that they offered no plan or leadership.

British politics is in melt down right now and you are in the position where neither main political party is truly electable. The choice now is who is the lesser of the two evils.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 06:51 PM

And your point is what exactly ?

No I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors at the EU commssion

Few do
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And your point is what exactly ?

No I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors at the EU commssion

Few do


If you don't know, why are you saying there is a lot of politics behind closed doors then? Just talking the usual crap I presume
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And your point is what exactly ?

No I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors at the EU commssion

Few do


If you don't know, why are you saying there is a lot of politics behind closed doors then? Just talking the usual crap I presume


because its common sense unless they are robots who agree on everything maybe you think they are ? while we are on the subject of talking crap
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 09:43 PM

Heres [oops] Juncker from the EU commission showing his no politics

https://news.sky.com/video/watch-juncker-mimic-mays-abba-dance-11521436
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 09:43 PM

after drinking a vat of brandy
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 08/10/18 10:43 PM

If I was you,I would be concerning myself with what the United Nations

have planned for the Mauritius countryside and why all the bent

politicians there have given them free reign.

Instead you are worried about Nissan leaving the UK.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 07:56 AM

Originally Posted By Markhutch1
If I was you,I would be concerning myself with what the United Nations

have planned for the Mauritius countryside and why all the bent

politicians there have given them free reign.

Instead you are worried about Nissan leaving the UK.



Why should I be worried about UN again, are they trying to colonize us or something?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 07:57 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Heres [oops] Juncker from the EU commission showing his no politics

https://news.sky.com/video/watch-juncker-mimic-mays-abba-dance-11521436


How is that politics? Looks quite funny to me. Did you like what May did by the way?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 08:18 AM

Nothing wrong with what May did. Took the p!ss out of herself and why not? Showed a bit of a sense of humour even if it did look as awkward as her real dancing.
Posted by: Markhutch1

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 10:38 AM

I think that is the idea.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 10:41 AM

Junker is president of the EU and he is taking the p1ss out of Theresa May its pure politics trying to demean your opponent. Juncker by the way is rumoured to be an alcoholic and there is film of him at an EU conference basically staggering all over the place and fooling around and having to be supported. It was explained away as a bad back no one believes that. This is a man the EU puts as president why ? My guess political favours the EU is riddled with politics most of it not nice. Thank god we are leaving
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Junker is president of the EU and he is taking the p1ss out of Theresa May its pure politics trying to demean your opponent. Juncker by the way is rumoured to be an alcoholic and there is film of him at an EU conference basically staggering all over the place and fooling around and having to be supported. It was explained away as a bad back no one believes that. This is a man the EU puts as president why ? My guess political favours the EU is riddled with politics most of it not nice. Thank god we are leaving


I think it's called having a sense of humour.

So your reason for leaving the EU this week is that Juncker drinks.

Jaysus, you're good for a laugh Stan I will give you that.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Junker is president of the EU and he is taking the p1ss out of Theresa May its pure politics trying to demean your opponent. Juncker by the way is rumoured to be an alcoholic and there is film of him at an EU conference basically staggering all over the place and fooling around and having to be supported. It was explained away as a bad back no one believes that. This is a man the EU puts as president why ? My guess political favours the EU is riddled with politics most of it not nice. Thank god we are leaving


I think it's called having a sense of humour.

So your reason for leaving the EU this week is that Juncker drinks.

Jaysus, you're good for a laugh Stan I will give you that.


I don't recall saying juncker is the reason I want to leave the EU just to counter Vish claim the EU is devoid of politics it clearly us not. And May was being self deprecating poking fun at herself which worked incidently people warmed to her the British love self depreciation. Juncker was simply poking fun at Britain probably while drunk. I don't expect you to be able to work that out or anything from bitter experience
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Junker is president of the EU and he is taking the p1ss out of Theresa May its pure politics trying to demean your opponent. Juncker by the way is rumoured to be an alcoholic and there is film of him at an EU conference basically staggering all over the place and fooling around and having to be supported. It was explained away as a bad back no one believes that. This is a man the EU puts as president why ? My guess political favours the EU is riddled with politics most of it not nice. Thank god we are leaving


I think it's called having a sense of humour.

So your reason for leaving the EU this week is that Juncker drinks.

Jaysus, you're good for a laugh Stan I will give you that.


I don't recall saying juncker is the reason I want to leave the EU just to counter Vish claim the EU is devoid of politics it clearly us not. And May was being self deprecating poking fun at herself which worked incidently people warmed to her the British love self depreciation. Juncker was simply poking fun at Britain probably while drunk. I don't expect you to be able to work that out or anything from bitter experience


Junker was poking fun because it was funny or stupid, and for me personally, May looked stupid, but it's a personal feeling, if the British public liked it, so be it, it's not a major thing.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 01:15 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Junker is president of the EU and he is taking the p1ss out of Theresa May its pure politics trying to demean your opponent. Juncker by the way is rumoured to be an alcoholic and there is film of him at an EU conference basically staggering all over the place and fooling around and having to be supported. It was explained away as a bad back no one believes that. This is a man the EU puts as president why ? My guess political favours the EU is riddled with politics most of it not nice. Thank god we are leaving


I think it's called having a sense of humour.

So your reason for leaving the EU this week is that Juncker drinks.

Jaysus, you're good for a laugh Stan I will give you that.


I don't recall saying juncker is the reason I want to leave the EU just to counter Vish claim the EU is devoid of politics it clearly us not. And May was being self deprecating poking fun at herself which worked incidently people warmed to her the British love self depreciation. Juncker was simply poking fun at Britain probably while drunk. I don't expect you to be able to work that out or anything from bitter experience


Junker was poking fun because it was funny or stupid, and for me personally, May looked stupid, but it's a personal feeling, if the British public liked it, so be it, it's not a major thing.


May does a funny dance and all of a sudden everyone warms to her.

Juncker does a funny dance and he's an alcoholic.

Jesus wept.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 01:45 PM

Junker has a long history of alcohol problems at recent EU conference he had to be supported by Macron the french president. Brandy is his tipple. Lets bear in mind this man is president of the EU in charge of 500 million people does there not have to be dignity in such a position? Anyway I dont care we are leaving the EU in less than 6 months leave them to it
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 01:49 PM

Here is the chap official reason is a sciatia attack.

Look at his face and judge for yourself this is one incident of many and I bet he was drunk when he made fun of may. This is weeks before an important EU and UK summit. The sober EU offcials including barnier must have their head in their hands

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44812352
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Here is the chap official reason is a sciatia attack.

Look at his face and judge for yourself this is one incident of many and I bet he was drunk when he made fun of may. This is weeks before an important EU and UK summit. The sober EU offcials including barnier must have their head in their hands

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44812352


Not too different to your hero

https://www.explainthatstuff.com/winstonchurchill.html
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Here is the chap official reason is a sciatia attack.

Look at his face and judge for yourself this is one incident of many and I bet he was drunk when he made fun of may. This is weeks before an important EU and UK summit. The sober EU offcials including barnier must have their head in their hands

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44812352


So the problem with his leg would have nothing to do with the 3 weeks he spent in a coma and the 6 months he spent in a wheelchair after a car accident.

Pathetic attempt to demonise the man.

But then I suppose you have to talk about something as you cannot talk about the non existent brexiteers plan for post EU Britain.

Brexit in Name Only is hardly leaving the EU. .
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 07:10 PM

So we are all juncker fans are we ? Good luck to you his drinking is well known and his behaviour is embarrassing to millions of people in the EU. But if you rate him that's fine by me it's a lot better than supporting the IRA. He can do what he likes though in five months it won't be any concern of the British people hopefully.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 09/10/18 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
So we are all juncker fans are we ? Good luck to you his drinking is well known and his behaviour is embarrassing to millions of people in the EU. But if you rate him that's fine by me it's a lot better than supporting the IRA. He can do what he likes though in five months it won't be any concern of the British people hopefully.


And still no brexiteer plan.

I think Brexit in Name Only will mean that it will be of great concern to the British.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 04:23 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
So we are all juncker fans are we ? Good luck to you his drinking is well known and his behaviour is embarrassing to millions of people in the EU. But if you rate him that's fine by me it's a lot better than supporting the IRA. He can do what he likes though in five months it won't be any concern of the British people hopefully.


I suppose the SNP leader was also drunk when she made fun of May's dirty dancing...ha
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
So we are all juncker fans are we ? Good luck to you his drinking is well known and his behaviour is embarrassing to millions of people in the EU. But if you rate him that's fine by me it's a lot better than supporting the IRA. He can do what he likes though in five months it won't be any concern of the British people hopefully.


And still no brexiteer plan.

I think Brexit in Name Only will mean that it will be of great concern to the British.


Brexiteers (whoever they are) are not the government but as I have said to you (but nothing sinks in) Canada plus is probably the plan based on what I recall in the pre 2016 debates. You keep saying brexit in name only care to explain how either chequers or Canada plus are that ? I know you won't it's just a taunt you have no idea what either are do you ? prove me wrong and no links please
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
So we are all juncker fans are we ? Good luck to you his drinking is well known and his behaviour is embarrassing to millions of people in the EU. But if you rate him that's fine by me it's a lot better than supporting the IRA. He can do what he likes though in five months it won't be any concern of the British people hopefully.


And still no brexiteer plan.

I think Brexit in Name Only will mean that it will be of great concern to the British.


Brexiteers (whoever they are) are not the government but as I have said to you (but nothing sinks in) Canada plus is probably the plan based on what I recall in the pre 2016 debates. You keep saying brexit in name only care to explain how either chequers or Canada plus are that ? I know you won't it's just a taunt you have no idea what either are do you ? prove me wrong and no links please


Oh Dear. Are you now claiming you don't even know who the brexiteers are?

So you have never heard of Davis, Johnson or Gove. They were all part of the government.

Davis and Johnson jumped ship when they realised that the brexit they promised the electorate was never deliverable.

Easiest trade deal in history, have our cake and eat it, f**k business. You know, that kind of stuff.

Gove simply switched camps and is now quite happy with Chequers, surprising to see that, given that he is a man of such honour. Just ask Boris.

It's not me you have to convince that Chequers is not Brexit in Name Only, its Boris and Davis along with JRM and several dozen other conservative MP's. They both resigned because of it or did Theresa's dancing lead to you missing that fact.

As for Canada plus, good luck selling that to May and the DUP. Another General Election anyone?

Brexiteers have no feasible plan as witnessed by their silence at the Tory party conference. May"s leadership has never been safer and the UK will end up with a version of Chequers with further UK concessions. But you will have your blue passports.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 06:48 PM

No answer to why it's brexit in name only just stuff about boris Johnson Micheal give etc and general stuff. Nothing new there then your limit is taunting a few phrases you have picked up but clearly don't understand. As far as I understand boris Johnson supports a Canada deal but boris Johnson other than his vote is not in charge of brexit. As for myself reluctantly I support Theresa Mays position. It's far from ideal but it is probably the best path between the conflicting politics. I don't have the answers to what is a complex arrangement but if we are out of the single market, customs union and limited to occasional trade verdicts with the EU with the ECJ and can still strike independent trade deals that will do for me. I said from day one a deal will be done from the EU and not everyone will be happy (no one ever is). But I thank god I am capable of expressing an opinion of my own
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 07:01 PM

For me the massive red line is staying in the single market that would be brexit in name only
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 10/10/18 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No answer to why it's brexit in name only just stuff about boris Johnson Micheal give etc and general stuff. Nothing new there then your limit is taunting a few phrases you have picked up but clearly don't understand. As far as I understand boris Johnson supports a Canada deal but boris Johnson other than his vote is not in charge of brexit. As for myself reluctantly I support Theresa Mays position. It's far from ideal but it is probably the best path between the conflicting politics. I don't have the answers to what is a complex arrangement but if we are out of the single market, customs union and limited to occasional trade verdicts with the EU with the ECJ and can still strike independent trade deals that will do for me. I said from day one a deal will be done from the EU and not everyone will be happy (no one ever is). But I thank god I am capable of expressing an opinion of my own


You are not alone. There isn't one brexiteer that has an answer to this most complex of arrangements. Plenty of cowards though who completely abdicated their responsibility and left May to clear up their mess.

As for your acceptance of Chequers it just merely reinforces the view that for many brexiteers any Brexit will do.

I think your final deal will be "Chequers Light" which would be touted by the right wing press as a glorious victory for Brexit Britain.

A terrible lot of bother for a blue passport you could have had all along.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:54 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No answer to why it's brexit in name only just stuff about boris Johnson Micheal give etc and general stuff. Nothing new there then your limit is taunting a few phrases you have picked up but clearly don't understand. As far as I understand boris Johnson supports a Canada deal but boris Johnson other than his vote is not in charge of brexit. As for myself reluctantly I support Theresa Mays position. It's far from ideal but it is probably the best path between the conflicting politics. I don't have the answers to what is a complex arrangement but if we are out of the single market, customs union and limited to occasional trade verdicts with the EU with the ECJ and can still strike independent trade deals that will do for me. I said from day one a deal will be done from the EU and not everyone will be happy (no one ever is). But I thank god I am capable of expressing an opinion of my own


You are not alone. There isn't one brexiteer that has an answer to this most complex of arrangements. Plenty of cowards though who completely abdicated their responsibility and left May to clear up their mess.

As for your acceptance of Chequers it just merely reinforces the view that for many brexiteers any Brexit will do.

I think your final deal will be "Chequers Light" which would be touted by the right wing press as a glorious victory for Brexit Britain.

A terrible lot of bother for a blue passport you could have had all along.


I actually think that in any deal the UK will be able to control it's borders when it comes to migration. IMO, that was the main reason for Brexit at it will be achieved, however, in practice, though controlled, there will be as much migration but not only from the EU. Businesses will still need people and a lot of jobs won't be done by the British, in addition, companies will fight rising wages, Unless they are forced to, otherwise they will move to cheaper countries, delocalise.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 10:35 AM

That's nonesense Vish I distinctly remember the brexit debates before the vote the argument was not against immigration generally but uncontrolled immigration. Yes you are right Britain needs skills and our post EU position will be one of a points based system based on skill need. What has massively damaged our society has been a flood of low skilled labour into Britain which has overwhelmed public services / social housing and driven wages down of the poorest in Britain. We want an immigration like Mauritius has and you are saying we can't have that. What a strange position to be in.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
That's nonesense Vish I distinctly remember the brexit debates before the vote the argument was not against immigration generally but uncontrolled immigration. Yes you are right Britain needs skills and our post EU position will be one of a points based system based on skill need. What has massively damaged our society has been a flood of low skilled labour into Britain which has overwhelmed public services / social housing and driven wages down of the poorest in Britain. We want an immigration like Mauritius has and you are saying we can't have that. What a strange position to be in.



This is what I said "I actually think that in any deal the UK will be able to control it's borders when it comes to migration", which part is nonsense according to you?

In Mauritius we control our migration, where did I say you cannot have it, I've said you'll probably get it? What I said is that despite controlling your migration, you will still have low skilled migration as I am sure lots of British do not want those jobs probably because they don't like such jobs and/or they are not well paid. If you pay higher wages, companies will prefer to delocalise to lower cost countries. This is why in Mauritius, though it's controlled, there are some low skilled migrants and companies want more of them. Because there has been too much control according to companies, they have been moving their operations to Madagascar.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 01:35 PM

Oh I see your point. Yes we will have low skilled migration such as fruit picking on a short term visa. Although I see the government has set a financial threshold you have to earn x which I don't quite understand. I have no problem with anyone coming to Britain long term or short term provided they have the skills and there is a need that cannot be met internally. That seems reasonable and common sense to me. I don't agree with the government setting a financial threshold. In the madness of the EU britain was allowing in unskilled people and criminals as well and turning away IT specialists and engineers from India etc.. That is clearly madness and the British people who I believe are one of the most welcoming in the world clearly felt enough was enough. And in case anyone wants to throw the race card at me in the EU freedom of movement white people from Eastern Europe were free to come to Britain and brown people from India were refused irrespective of what they had to offer Britain that is real racisim to me. Thank god it's going to stop
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Oh I see your point. Yes we will have low skilled migration such as fruit picking on a short term visa. Although I see the government has set a financial threshold you have to earn x which I don't quite understand. I have no problem with anyone coming to Britain long term or short term provided they have the skills and there is a need that cannot be met internally. That seems reasonable and common sense to me. I don't agree with the government setting a financial threshold. In the madness of the EU britain was allowing in unskilled people and criminals as well and turning away IT specialists and engineers from India etc.. That is clearly madness and the British people who I believe are one of the most welcoming in the world clearly felt enough was enough. And in case anyone wants to throw the race card at me in the EU freedom of movement white people from Eastern Europe were free to come to Britain and brown people from India were refused irrespective of what they had to offer Britain that is real racisim to me. Thank god it's going to stop


Ah it all makes sense now. You voted leave because you were concerned about potential immigrants from India being turned away.

"Unskilled people and criminals".Is that you Donald?

The most welcoming people in the world would not be closing their borders to their nearest neighbours.

You do realise that Britain signed up to Freedom of Movement and that over 1 million British people are currently enjoying life in countries throughout Europe.

You are getting worse by the day, no one needs to throw the race cards at you, they wouldn't even come close to the hatchet job you have just done on yourself.

We aren't racist but we don't want Europeans over here.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:43 PM

How dumb was that last post? We are not closing the door to immigrants from the EU just not favouring them over people from the rest of the world which seems fair to me. Anyone from anywhere is welcome in post brexit Britain provided there is the need and they have the skills.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:46 PM

Donald Where's Your Troosers.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:47 PM

What about the crappy low paid jobs no self respecting English teenager would get out of bed for?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
What about the crappy low paid jobs no self respecting English teenager would get out of bed for?


Well maybe they should get out of bed then. For the record I started out at 16 on a crappy low paid job and worked my way up and got exams. There is no way my parents would let me stay in bed on the dole.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
How dumb was that last post? We are not closing the door to immigrants from the EU just not favouring them over people from the rest of the world which seems fair to me. Anyone from anywhere is welcome in post brexit Britain provided there is the need and they have the skills.


Would that be the unskilled and criminal Europeans.

So is it fine if all British people in Europe are only welcome if there is a need and they have the skills?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By lumba
What about the crappy low paid jobs no self respecting English teenager would get out of bed for?


Well maybe they should get out of bed then. For the record I started out at 16 on a crappy low paid job and worked my way up and got exams. There is no way my parents would let me stay in bed on the dole.


So that's a British youth problem. Your solution: get rid of the Europeans who are willing to do the work.

Brilliant.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:05 PM

I never got a lie in as a kid,stupid bloody paper round.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
How dumb was that last post? We are not closing the door to immigrants from the EU just not favouring them over people from the rest of the world which seems fair to me. Anyone from anywhere is welcome in post brexit Britain provided there is the need and they have the skills.


Would that be the unskilled and criminal Europeans.

So is it fine if all British people in Europe are only welcome if there is a need and they have the skills?


Yes is the answer to that which again is reasonable. Anyone with a criminal record in Europe should not be allowed immigration into the UK post brexit that's not the case today as our jails testify were you to do your research which of course you want. Try even travelling to the USA, Canada or Australia if you have a criminal record see how far you get. The other bit of nonsense you posted was one million British live in Europe that might be true but you have deliberately omitted or more likely you don't realise is they are largely well off retirees who want some sun. Provided they can support themselves I am sure they will be welcome to a sunny retirement in Spain post brexit providing they can support themselves. If they can't why should the Spanish support them ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I never got a lie in as a kid,stupid bloody paper round.


Clearly you would get out of bed for a crappy low paid job and I am sure it did you no harm, I had a paper round as well for many years
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
How dumb was that last post? We are not closing the door to immigrants from the EU just not favouring them over people from the rest of the world which seems fair to me. Anyone from anywhere is welcome in post brexit Britain provided there is the need and they have the skills.


Would that be the unskilled and criminal Europeans.

So is it fine if all British people in Europe are only welcome if there is a need and they have the skills?


Yes is the answer to that which again is reasonable. Anyone with a criminal record in Europe should not be allowed immigration into the UK post brexit that's not the case today as our jails testify were you to do your research which of course you want. Try even travelling to the USA, Canada or Australia if you have a criminal record see how far you get. The other bit of nonsense you posted was one million British live in Europe that might be true but you have deliberately omitted or more likely you don't realise is they are largely well off retirees who want some sun. Provided they can support themselves I am sure they will be welcome to a sunny retirement in Spain post brexit providing they can support themselves. If they can't why should the Spanish support them ?


If you bothered to read something other than the Daily Express you would know that two thirds of British people living in other EU countries are of working age. Another of those pesky facts making an absolute nonsense of a brexiteers argument.

Interesting that you are fighting for the rights of Indian immigrants to come to Britain but you don't give a toss about your fellow British citizens living throughout Europe.

How easy it is to blame all Britain's economic and social failings on the EU and it's citizens and not on the tories horrendous austerity.

And all for a blue passport.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 04:38 PM

Started my working life on £1 an hour making hardwood window frames at a local Joinery,was glued to a window frame by my work mates on my first day.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Started my working life on £1 an hour making hardwood window frames at a local Joinery,was glued to a window frame by my work mates on my first day.


That kind of behaviour is hard to stick whistle
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 06:38 PM

Well shaggy unless Britain agrees to staying in the single market then I am afraid you are going to have to suck up the situation as freedom of movement with the EU will soon be history. You can send as many taunts at me as you like but it won't change that. However it's great you are so enthused by uncontrolled immigration. Derry sounds a lovely place a good dose of mass unskilled immigration will do it the world of good. It might dilute the segtarianism for one reason, funny enough immigrants to date have not been keen and almost exclusively choose England as their destination. Hopefully that will change and Derry will be their number one destination in future
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 06:43 PM

So brexit. Good or bad?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
So brexit. Good or bad?


Yip any old sh1te will do
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
So brexit. Good or bad?


Even a Norway arrangement would be better than being in the EU the norweigans have voted for full membership in recent years but have rejected it. Sovereignty clearly matters to them too. Who knows what deal May is working on but clearly something is happening as we speak the cabinet have been summoned by May and as you saw in the news politicians on both sides have been making positive noises. Rumour is May wants to keep us in a customs union which I would not be happy about. My guess is a deal will be announced in say the next three weeks or so. The next step is whether parliment accepts or rejects it. But anything is better than being an EU member the storm clouds over Italy are still building we don't want to be anywhere near that when it breaks
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 07:07 PM

I just wanna know if there's something we can do to stop Cher murdering AbbA songs.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I just wanna know if there's something we can do to stop Cher murdering AbbA songs.


Lovely scenery in whistler
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 07:36 PM

I thought you were back.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I thought you were back.


I am I was just saying
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 08:37 PM

Did you go on any mountain trails?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Did you go on any mountain trails?


Yes and alone with a black bear for about quarter of a mile me and him / her and stuff all else. I eventually decided to withdraw because although it was not bothered about me that could change at will by the bear and there would only be one loser and it would not be the bear. But what an experience
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 11/10/18 10:51 PM

Back to brexit worrying rumours about us staying in customs union I would really not be happy with that
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 04:21 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Back to brexit worrying rumours about us staying in customs union I would really not be happy with that


Chequers is a version of that, ie, trade tariffs and rule book alignment but with exclusions and duty collection for the EU. Basically a customs union with exclusions which will give UK a competitive advantage over the EU, as a starting negotiating position.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 07:29 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By lumba
I just wanna know if there's something we can do to stop Cher murdering AbbA songs.


Lovely scenery in whistler


Iíd love to go there with the mountain bike. Looks proper good there.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:20 AM

Wilk I go mountain biking in the lakes and Wales whistler is another level you can take a gondaler up to the top of the mountain and across to blackcomb mountain with trails on the way down. Pretty much the best place in the world for mountain biking I would say Unfortunetly for family reasons was not able to spare a day on it. I have been all over world but Canada up there with the best
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:23 AM

I remember these brexit arguments from the day after we voted to leave. I said then there would be posturing and news articles coming out of your ears until near the end when both sides would knuckle down and agree a deal. Obviously anything could yet happen but it very much looks like that's exactly what's going to happen. What a shame we have to go through this still that's politicians I suppose
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wilk I go mountain biking in the lakes and Wales whistler is another level you can take a gondaler up to the top of the mountain and across to blackcomb mountain with trails on the way down. Pretty much the best place in the world for mountain biking I would say Unfortunetly for family reasons was not able to spare a day on it. I have been all over world but Canada up there with the best


u been to saudi? would u go into a saudi murder embassy looking for a visa? still happy selling them bombs to drop on yemen kids schools? wonder if the knifes they murdered that journalist with were from uk
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:47 AM

Oh dear.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wilk I go mountain biking in the lakes and Wales whistler is another level you can take a gondaler up to the top of the mountain and across to blackcomb mountain with trails on the way down. Pretty much the best place in the world for mountain biking I would say Unfortunetly for family reasons was not able to spare a day on it. I have been all over world but Canada up there with the best


Iíve been to Wales a few times with the bike and love it over there. Looks another level as you say in Whistler. Iíll get there one day or maybe to the Alps as thereís some good riding there too.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Oh dear.


Whose feelings I hurting now , military arms sales people?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 12:45 PM

Interesting, I just thought uk citizens would be in uproar about propping up such a hoodlum state, with weapons of destruction.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 01:11 PM

No opinion? I suppose this is the new norm in right wing elite fascist Western Society ..journo's are the enemy of the people right, ridicule them, punch them , arrest them and murder them.... drip drip towards the 4th reich.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 05:30 PM

Oh dear.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Oh dear.


I think we have a genius in our midst only emp could link mountain biking on whistler mountain British Columbia with bombing in Yemen. As the Canadian mountain bikers whizzed past I made sure I shouted "what about Yemen you b&asrds !
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 07:13 PM

It's just some rambling mad man. bunch of words that don't really add up to much. Oh dear is all 95% of what he says deserves now days.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 07:52 PM

What bike have you got Wilki?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 08:09 PM

Got a Propain Two Face from a few years ago. Way too much bike for the flatlands of Northamptonshire but is great when I go somewhere good.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 08:14 PM

LOL just googled propain two face as i've never heard of it and clicked on Bikeradar forum and it's you posting about it. grin
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 08:28 PM

Haha! I forgot I'd put it on there. You've got to show off your ride you know! I did get a dropper post in the end too!

They're not very big over here. I got the frame direct from them in Germany.

A little lucky with the cost as I ordered it just before the Brexit vote. Had I ordered it after that with the pound crashing it would've cost me nearly £200 more! Good old Brexit!
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 08:44 PM

I really wanna get back into bikes,Mrs bikes everywhere and she keeps on at me about getting one,what would you go for at around 600 notes ?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 09:55 PM

Go to your nearest Devathlon. Their road bikes are especially good for that money. Mountain bikes arenít too bad either or maybe Go Outdoors for MTBís.

I donít do nearly as much as I should or want. I might get an indoor trainer for the winter this year.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 10:31 PM

My bike is getting in for 20 years old but it was over £5k when I bought it.

It's a Scott strike limited edition carbon.

It's a really good cross country and about 20 pound full suspension which is light even today. At the time it was a top spec race bike. However it's only got light recreational use from me albeit in some tough trails in Wales and lakes. Being so light and with the gearing and suspension it's a great climber and easy ride XC. But with my age and fitness I will probably pack in before it packs in.
Posted by: Derek

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:01 PM

I bike a bit in Maine. 2 years ago I bought a Klein, I love it. I bought it this time of year used. It's well worth checking out used ones around now, lots of fair weather bikers (me) sell their bikes that they bought at the start of the summer and used a few times and gave up.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 12/10/18 11:39 PM

I agree with derek if I was buying a bike with a budget if £600 I would look at used MTB depreciate rapidly and you can get some real bargains if you don't mind a cosmetic scratch or two
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 03:22 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Oh dear.


I think we have a genius in our midst only emp could link mountain biking on whistler mountain British Columbia with bombing in Yemen. As the Canadian mountain bikers whizzed past I made sure I shouted "what about Yemen you b&asrds !


I wasn't linking I was asking an opinion. The fact you don't care says a lot.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 08:07 AM

Oh dear.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 08:08 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My bike is getting in for 20 years old but it was over £5k when I bought it.

It's a Scott strike limited edition carbon.

It's a really good cross country and about 20 pound full suspension which is light even today. At the time it was a top spec race bike. However it's only got light recreational use from me albeit in some tough trails in Wales and lakes. Being so light and with the gearing and suspension it's a great climber and easy ride XC. But with my age and fitness I will probably pack in before it packs in.


Nice bikes those. Good that youíre still using it too as people tend to treat them like trophies a bit now.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Oh dear.


I think we have a genius in our midst only emp could link mountain biking on whistler mountain British Columbia with bombing in Yemen. As the Canadian mountain bikers whizzed past I made sure I shouted "what about Yemen you b&asrds !


I wasn't linking I was asking an opinion. The fact you don't care says a lot.


Ah you have sobered up now
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 12:30 PM

The uk arms the murderers , so it permits the genocide of school kids in yemen (watch reporter footage if u can handle the terror on these little girls faces) and murdering of journos in his own bloody embassay. HAcked to death.. You all should be outside downing st protesting , disgrace you ain;t
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
The uk arms the murderers , so it permits the genocide of school kids in yemen (watch reporter footage if u can handle the terror on these little girls faces) and murdering of journos in his own bloody embassay. HAcked to death.. You all should be outside downing st protesting , disgrace you ain;t


Wrong again as we speak I am outside Downing Street protesting about Yemen. In a minute or two I am about to set myself ablaze (then they will be sorry) however I can't see you there is only me here.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 05:04 PM

Yeah the bedroom revolutionist. All he does is spout off on a football forum. Probably not left his bedroom for the last few years. But hey ho. Whatever floats his boat.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 05:50 PM

Looking at a Nucleus VR,what do you think?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 05:57 PM

From Vitus? They look great value too. Their bikes always get good write ups too
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 06:01 PM

At the price range i'm looking at it's between that and a Calibre
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 06:16 PM

Hmmm or maybe even the Voodoo Bizango.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
The uk arms the murderers , so it permits the genocide of school kids in yemen (watch reporter footage if u can handle the terror on these little girls faces) and murdering of journos in his own bloody embassay. HAcked to death.. You all should be outside downing st protesting , disgrace you ain;t


Wrong again as we speak I am outside Downing Street protesting about Yemen. In a minute or two I am about to set myself ablaze (then they will be sorry) however I can't see you there is only me here.


Not my country arming these savages. Well if you care not about humans and humans rights , is it any wonder Russians are casually murdering your own citizens with chemical poison. This is the right wing facist end time scenario, murder ,elitism and racial hate.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 07:10 PM

Oh dear.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Hmmm or maybe even the Voodoo Bizango.


Theyíd all be good for that money. Check out Boardman bikes too as there might be one in that range too.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 13/10/18 11:15 PM

Cheers Wilki,had a look at the Boardman bikes and now I'm wondering if to go for a hybrid.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 08:26 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Yeah the bedroom revolutionist. All he does is spout off on a football forum. Probably not left his bedroom for the last few years. But hey ho. Whatever floats his boat.



I actually have a long history of protest, when I was living in the uk i was in london ( with a million of ur fellow citizens) protesting your govts disgusting murder invasion of the middle east that has caused most of the worlds problems since..You there or taking the middle do nothing ground?

Saudi Arabia are scum, they bomb children on purpose , strike down any form of democracy and now think themselves so easy in this new right wing world that they can butcher journo's in their own embassy . Get off ur ass and do something
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 08:35 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018...ers-data-misuse

Again as for your Brexit..the vote was criminal but latched onto by right wing tories so now the police refuse to investigate ..joke . Listened to canadian MP's investigating for u, had cambridge analytica exec for questioning and the mp was not impressed. The scandal you are refusing to look into is delivering an illegal vote and poverty.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 12:24 PM

Oh dear.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Yeah the bedroom revolutionist. All he does is spout off on a football forum. Probably not left his bedroom for the last few years. But hey ho. Whatever floats his boat.



I actually have a long history of protest, when I was living in the uk i was in london ( with a million of ur fellow citizens) protesting your govts disgusting murder invasion of the middle east that has caused most of the worlds problems since..You there or taking the middle do nothing ground?

Saudi Arabia are scum, they bomb children on purpose , strike down any form of democracy and now think themselves so easy in this new right wing world that they can butcher journo's in their own embassy . Get off ur ass and do something


Good for you. What you doing now besides belly aching on s football forum? Nothing I guess. The worst kind of hypocrite.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 12:39 PM

I do not scrape the barrel with personal speculations on other people's private life but if you must know I am active in social and civil rights movements , not as much as when I was younger mainly due to financial responsibilities, but yes my core life is one of engaging in making the world better for humans not corporations or military arms sellers. Thank you
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:06 PM

No you donít make personal speculations. You just tell people how they should live their lives and what they should do and believe in. Youíre no better than the rest of us no matter what you pretend youíve done compared to us (not that you know anything of what weíve done in our lives, hope youíre not making personal speculations?).

This is the leftie twatiness that speaks volumes of how tolerant you idiots are. Youíre welcome.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:21 PM

We're all under the influence from the powers that be on how we live our life's ,what's the problem with wanting something different?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:24 PM

Nothing as long as itís for the better. Being different for the sake of being different will get us no where.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
No you donít make personal speculations. You just tell people how they should live their lives and what they should do and believe in. Youíre no better than the rest of us no matter what you pretend youíve done compared to us (not that you know anything of what weíve done in our lives, hope youíre not making personal speculations?).

This is the leftie twatiness that speaks volumes of how tolerant you idiots are. Youíre welcome.


You are the one delving into comparisons , I have no zero interest for what u did or didn't do. What matters is the future, I will be at Barcelona for the world social forum next year, I highly recommend should you wish to see people come together to try and pull us back from the brink.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Nothing as long as itís for the better. Being different for the sake of being different will get us no where.


We are at nowhere already.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:49 PM

Are we really? Your opinion not fact.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
No you donít make personal speculations. You just tell people how they should live their lives and what they should do and believe in. Youíre no better than the rest of us no matter what you pretend youíve done compared to us (not that you know anything of what weíve done in our lives, hope youíre not making personal speculations?).

This is the leftie twatiness that speaks volumes of how tolerant you idiots are. Youíre welcome.


You are the one delving into comparisons , I have no zero interest for what u did or didn't do. What matters is the future, I will be at Barcelona for the world social forum next year, I highly recommend should you wish to see people come together to try and pull us back from the brink.


If I could afford to go to Barcelona I can think of a whole bunch of better things to do with the time ta very much.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Oh dear.


Looks like he is back on the paraffin again
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 02:11 PM

Well the saudi's control the price of that , will be too expensive soon. Their response to murdering an innocent man in his own embassy- to threaten everybody. Be interesting to see what the uk does on this, like it will be the exact same as Donald but its mad how long u wait to get ur American instructions these days.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 02:23 PM

And people think we're leaving the EU to make our own decisions..gotta laugh.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
And people think we're leaving the EU to make our own decisions..gotta laugh.


If you believe what emp says you are as daft as him
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 03:23 PM

Rumours leaked from a German newspaper suggest a brexit deal could be agreed tomorrow. Who knows ? Anything could happen but rabb is meeting barnier right now. One thing for sure the next month is going to be interesting
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Rumours leaked from a German newspaper suggest a brexit deal could be agreed tomorrow. Who knows ? Anything could happen but rabb is meeting barnier right now. One thing for sure the next month is going to be interesting


Very interesting, probably a general election soon
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By lumba
And people think we're leaving the EU to make our own decisions..gotta laugh.


If you believe what emp says you are as daft as him


He has a point regarding UK waiting for US to decide what to do.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By lumba
And people think we're leaving the EU to make our own decisions..gotta laugh.


If you believe what emp says you are as daft as him


He has a point regarding UK waiting for US to decide what to do.


You could say that about 95% of the world. Like it or not, as the most powerful country in the world you have to to an extent.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:23 PM

The USA is our biggest ally and the leader of the free world why would we not wait to see what they advise. It's also nothing directly to do with Britain but a more wider issue Britain going off piste would make no sense. Emp is simply trying to drive a wedge between Britain and the USA fairly standard far left tactics
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:25 PM

Trying to make the world better is a standard tactic yes. The saudi tactic of killing kids is the one you should be against.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The USA is our biggest ally and the leader of the free world why would we not wait to see what they advise. It's also nothing directly to do with Britain but a more wider issue Britain going off piste would make no sense. Emp is simply trying to drive a wedge between Britain and the USA fairly standard far left tactics


and free world is a bit of a joke..free world yet biggest allies are the saudi's lol..be better if they you didn't use the free world tag again maybe
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:29 PM

anybody actually wants to be free and the "free world" crushes them..historical fact.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Trying to make the world better is a standard tactic yes. The saudi tactic of killing kids is the one you should be against.


The far left have created human misery over 100 million died from Marxism in the last century murder mass starvation and torture. I am concerned what is happening in Yemen just as I am in other areas of the world. But the far left are very selective I don't believe you give a damn about the civilians in Yemen why you are concentrating here is Saudi is an ally of the west and a key oil supplier disrupting that would harm the west which is your real motive.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:31 PM

Iran was free, secular , wanted to share the oil wealth with its people...violently crushed by guess who? Say the same about every region in the world.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
Trying to make the world better is a standard tactic yes. The saudi tactic of killing kids is the one you should be against.


The far left have created human misery over 100 million died from Marxism in the last century murder mass starvation and torture. I am concerned what is happening in Yemen just as I am in other areas of the world. But the far left are very selective I don't believe you give a damn about the civilians in Yemen why you are concentrating here is Saudi is an ally of the west and a key oil supplier disrupting that would harm the west which is your real motive.


That was a far left failure..in as much as it wasn't far left..the far left in russia was crushed early. Lenin and co were dictators . That "far left" is gone. The left now is basically the Roosevelt left which used to be the centre and which saved the west and capitalism , the move to crazy town right and corporate take over of the world is where we are at now. You are stuck in the past.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
Trying to make the world better is a standard tactic yes. The saudi tactic of killing kids is the one you should be against.


The far left have created human misery over 100 million died from Marxism in the last century murder mass starvation and torture. I am concerned what is happening in Yemen just as I am in other areas of the world. But the far left are very selective I don't believe you give a damn about the civilians in Yemen why you are concentrating here is Saudi is an ally of the west and a key oil supplier disrupting that would harm the west which is your real motive.


As for not giving a damn about cilivians I think that is just sick, how anybody could say that i don't know.. I cried uncontrollably as a i watched a little girl no more than 6 panicked and roared in terror as bombs dropped all around her.. so yeah i care
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:52 PM

Hopefully you will also cry uncontrollably when you see films of the civilians starved to death under Stalin pol pot mao and all the other communist and socialist dictators who have come to power. And I don't believe you cried uncontrollably at news from Yemen over dramatisation fools no one politics is all you care about and pretty nasty politics at that
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 04:53 PM

Believe what u like, you sound twisted to me. Hopefully others in the uk and the "free world" will stand up and demand action , sadly i think most in the uk and usa are like u
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:01 PM

I must admit I don't know much about the Yemen conflict but had a read and I lost the will to live after a couple of minutes. It's not Saudi bombing kids for no reason other than they are bored or evil or both. It's a full scale civil war similar to Syria. Like all these conflicts in the Middle East there are multiple Islamic factions fighting one another to death with civilians caught in the middle. Nothing new here then. Thankfully Britain and the west are not involved in this one. However it seems the far left are doing all they can to make it our fault. And emp if you feel so strongly about this conflict from your cork social revolutionary bunker that you burst into tears in front of the tele then have some backbone instread of posting on koptalk go and help with the humanitarian work on the ground. That would impress me posting nonsense in your string vest surrounded by empty beer cans and half eaten pizzas is not impressive
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I must admit I don't know much about the Yemen conflict but had a read and I lost the will to live after a couple of minutes. It's not Saudi bombing kids for no reason other than they are bored or evil or both. It's a full scale civil war similar to Syria. Like all these conflicts in the Middle East there are multiple Islamic factions fighting one another to death with civilians caught in the middle. Nothing new here then. Thankfully Britain and the west are not involved in this one. However it seems the far left are doing all they can to make it our fault. And emp if you feel so strongly about this conflict from your cork social revolutionary bunker that you burst into tears in front of the tele then have some backbone instread of posting on koptalk go and help with the humanitarian work on the ground. That would impress me posting nonsense in your string vest surrounded by empty beer cans and half eaten pizzas is not impressive


I liked that bit! But he won't as it's way too comfy in the West that he hates so much to bother with that. He is off to Barcelona to make the world a better place though so I'll cut him some slack.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:06 PM

yeah i used to live out there, worked for a UN aid agency gathering stats in iraq during the war , so I know all about the suffering down there. Again you admit a lack of knowledge but proceed to tell us whats what. That doesn't make sense. And yes they are targeting children cause they want to wipe out the other side completely. They are evil, and you are heavily involved cause its your bombs they are dropping on these schools.

this is the saudi leader explaining his targeting of women and kids

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/08/2...ite-intl-outcry
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:07 PM

Do not care about international criticism. We want to leave a big impact on the consciousness of Yemeni generations. We want their children, women and even their men to shiver whenever the name of Saudi Arabia is mentioned,Ē

good luck defending that
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The USA is our biggest ally and the leader of the free world why would we not wait to see what they advise. It's also nothing directly to do with Britain but a more wider issue Britain going off piste would make no sense. Emp is simply trying to drive a wedge between Britain and the USA fairly standard far left tactics


I suppose you had a similar feeling when Blair went into Iraq with Bush, did you?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I must admit I don't know much about the Yemen conflict but had a read and I lost the will to live after a couple of minutes. It's not Saudi bombing kids for no reason other than they are bored or evil or both. It's a full scale civil war similar to Syria. Like all these conflicts in the Middle East there are multiple Islamic factions fighting one another to death with civilians caught in the middle. Nothing new here then. Thankfully Britain and the west are not involved in this one. However it seems the far left are doing all they can to make it our fault. And emp if you feel so strongly about this conflict from your cork social revolutionary bunker that you burst into tears in front of the tele then have some backbone instread of posting on koptalk go and help with the humanitarian work on the ground. That would impress me posting nonsense in your string vest surrounded by empty beer cans and half eaten pizzas is not impressive


I liked that bit! But he won't as it's way too comfy in the West that he hates so much to bother with that. He is off to Barcelona to make the world a better place though so I'll cut him some slack.


you both like that kinda ridicule , is it close to home or something?
I dont drink bty and rarely ever eat pizza
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Do not care about international criticism. We want to leave a big impact on the consciousness of Yemeni generations. We want their children, women and even their men to shiver whenever the name of Saudi Arabia is mentioned,Ē

good luck defending that


Silence is deafening on that one Emp.

Britain has been selling missiles to the Saudis to use in Yemen. Another awkward truth.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:16 PM

Stoned cold kid murdering - silence
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
Trying to make the world better is a standard tactic yes. The saudi tactic of killing kids is the one you should be against.


The far left have created human misery over 100 million died from Marxism in the last century murder mass starvation and torture. I am concerned what is happening in Yemen just as I am in other areas of the world. But the far left are very selective I don't believe you give a damn about the civilians in Yemen why you are concentrating here is Saudi is an ally of the west and a key oil supplier disrupting that would harm the west which is your real motive.


The country disrupting oil supply recently is the US with their unilateral sanction on Iran, only Israel and Saudis are in agreement. So have some perspective.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:16 PM

I am not defending anything Saudi is a nasty bit of work. However I fail to see how cutting off diplomatic relations will help matters china is also a nasty bit of work but we deal with them. Saudi also is the home of Islam which we are constantly told by the far west is the religion of peace and no threat to western societies. Let's say we cut off all relations with Saudi as I presume you want ? How is that going to play out with the large Muslim populations in Europe do we not have enough problems as it is ? Yes we may need to take action against Saudi but my understanding is we are likely to your anti christ president trump has already threatened that. And simply sending a link from a website does not make it true or in context but I agree Saudi is a nasty bit of work
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am not defending anything Saudi is a nasty bit of work. However I fail to see how cutting off diplomatic relations will help matters china is also a nasty bit of work but we deal with them. Saudi also is the home of Islam which we are constantly told by the far west is the religion of peace and no threat to western societies. Let's say we cut off all relations with Saudi as I presume you want ? How is that going to play out with the large Muslim populations in Europe do we not have enough problems as it is ? Yes we may need to take action against Saudi but my understanding is we are likely to your anti christ president trump has already threatened that. And simply sending a link from a website does not make it true or in context but I agree Saudi is a nasty bit of work


Fyi, the majority of Islamists don't like the Saudi regime
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:20 PM

fail to see how making a stand against evil will do anything ? You stop giving them weapons and actually work the UN and it will stop the killing.. this picking which evil to hate and which evil is on our side has to stop. We must empower the UN in all matters, the UN nearly always votes fairly. Its the evil money makers that veto the fairness
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:25 PM

Meanwhile back in Brexit lalaland I see that seasoned negotiator David Davis is putting his country first.

I blame Corbyn.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:26 PM

If we weren't so linked to it I would have tuned out a year ago.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am not defending anything Saudi is a nasty bit of work. However I fail to see how cutting off diplomatic relations will help matters china is also a nasty bit of work but we deal with them. Saudi also is the home of Islam which we are constantly told by the far west is the religion of peace and no threat to western societies. Let's say we cut off all relations with Saudi as I presume you want ? How is that going to play out with the large Muslim populations in Europe do we not have enough problems as it is ? Yes we may need to take action against Saudi but my understanding is we are likely to your anti christ president trump has already threatened that. And simply sending a link from a website does not make it true or in context but I agree Saudi is a nasty bit of work


Fyi, the majority of Islamists don't like the Saudi regime


Really how come you know that ? But irrespective if the west turned against Saudi in a big way it's hard to see what we would gain or how it would help Yemen. Also with Yemen with all these Islamic mad conflicts there is no right or wrong no good or bad side we have seen what happens when the west interferes in these medeval tribal Islamic conflicts getting involved in Yemen would be lunacy. And with certainty insulting the home of Islam with Mecca would without any doubt set off Islamic populations in the west who would see it as a grave insult to Islam. We have enough trouble as it is
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
fail to see how making a stand against evil will do anything ? You stop giving them weapons and actually work the UN and it will stop the killing.. this picking which evil to hate and which evil is on our side has to stop. We must empower the UN in all matters, the UN nearly always votes fairly. Its the evil money makers that veto the fairness


Nobody gives weapons to Saudi, US and UK make billions selling them, not easy to give up, helps balancing the budget big time.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am not defending anything Saudi is a nasty bit of work. However I fail to see how cutting off diplomatic relations will help matters china is also a nasty bit of work but we deal with them. Saudi also is the home of Islam which we are constantly told by the far west is the religion of peace and no threat to western societies. Let's say we cut off all relations with Saudi as I presume you want ? How is that going to play out with the large Muslim populations in Europe do we not have enough problems as it is ? Yes we may need to take action against Saudi but my understanding is we are likely to your anti christ president trump has already threatened that. And simply sending a link from a website does not make it true or in context but I agree Saudi is a nasty bit of work


Fyi, the majority of Islamists don't like the Saudi regime


Really how come you know that
? But irrespective if the west turned against Saudi in a big way it's hard to see what we would gain or how it would help Yemen. Also with Yemen with all these Islamic mad conflicts there is no right or wrong no good or bad side we have seen what happens when the west interferes in these medeval tribal Islamic conflicts getting involved in Yemen would be lunacy. And with certainty insulting the home of Islam with Mecca would without any doubt set off Islamic populations in the west who would see it as a grave insult to Islam. We have enough trouble as it is


Have you ever had Arab or muslim friends, do you even know an Arab? Seriously
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:49 PM

Vish they don't even know who all the Islamists are never mind ask them to complete an opinion poll. Everything about Islam is opaque even Saudi there is a grey area between the government and the Saudi princes corruption is also rife
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish they don't even know who all the Islamists are never mind ask them to complete an opinion poll. Everything about Islam is opaque even Saudi there is a grey area between the government and the Saudi princes corruption is also rife


I was talking about Muslims/Arabs Not extremist, do you know any well enough to have a discussion about Islam or Saudi?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish they don't even know who all the Islamists are never mind ask them to complete an opinion poll. Everything about Islam is opaque even Saudi there is a grey area between the government and the Saudi princes corruption is also rife


I was talking about Muslims/Arabs Not extremist, do you know any well enough to have a discussion about Islam or Saudi?


Islamists are the terms for muslim extemists ? I know one or two muslims in my home town I have never asked them anything more complicated than isnt this rain awful so I would not know their opinion on Saudi I suspect they would not have a clue
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 06:00 PM

More news on brexit apparently the 27 leaders have been summond tonight according to a strong rumour. The word on the street is May has caved in probably customs without an end date my guess. Would not bet against new election and David Davies as leader front runner. But I dont know obviously
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
More news on brexit apparently the 27 leaders have been summond tonight according to a strong rumour. The word on the street is May has caved in probably customs without an end date my guess. Would not bet against new election and David Davies as leader front runner. But I dont know obviously


If May has caved in (accepted reality) you are probably looking at a leadership contest and/ or an election.

The DUP will definitely end their agreement with the government.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish they don't even know who all the Islamists are never mind ask them to complete an opinion poll. Everything about Islam is opaque even Saudi there is a grey area between the government and the Saudi princes corruption is also rife


I was talking about Muslims/Arabs Not extremist, do you know any well enough to have a discussion about Islam or Saudi?


Islamists are the terms for muslim extemists ? I know one or two muslims in my home town I have never asked them anything more complicated than isnt this rain awful so I would not know their opinion on Saudi I suspect they would not have a clue


Well, I know quite a few muslims, some friends and had Arab friends when I was studying, this is how I know. Lots of Muslims dont like the Saudi regime because they say that Saudis don't do enough for muslims, especially from the poorer countries and they instead throw money away on things prohibited by Islam.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
More news on brexit apparently the 27 leaders have been summond tonight according to a strong rumour. The word on the street is May has caved in probably customs without an end date my guess. Would not bet against new election and David Davies as leader front runner. But I dont know obviously


It's not the 27 leaders, but the 27 EU ambassadors and it is getting very interesting indeed. I say a new election and another hung parliament.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
More news on brexit apparently the 27 leaders have been summond tonight according to a strong rumour. The word on the street is May has caved in probably customs without an end date my guess. Would not bet against new election and David Davies as leader front runner. But I dont know obviously


It's not the 27 leaders, but the 27 EU ambassadors and it is getting very interesting indeed. I say a new election and another hung parliament.


If we had another election I agree another hung parliment or small majority for conservatives would be the most likely result and I can't see how that would solve brexit any more than the existing government. There is also the question of who would be Tory leader. Too many problems here. Looking at labour if there is a deal why would they vote against it other than to create an election (which I agree is a reason) but in terms of brexit they would be voting for no deal and against their constituents. Because of this although it might be tight I think the government will win the parliment vote. It also looks like work in progress agreement on customs and the Irish border. Vish it's a bit unfair to correct me on the detail when this is breaking and fresh news coming out by the hour
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 07:03 PM

You must be a very sociable person Vish if you know the billions of Muslims in the world. Yes you may have a few friends of the Muslim faith but it's hard to see how you can extrapolate their collective view across all Muslims
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 07:10 PM

Latest news is the talks have broken down but I think it's a short term postponement big picture I think is they are very close it was always going to go to the wire that's the way these things work
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I must admit I don't know much about the Yemen conflict but had a read and I lost the will to live after a couple of minutes. It's not Saudi bombing kids for no reason other than they are bored or evil or both. It's a full scale civil war similar to Syria. Like all these conflicts in the Middle East there are multiple Islamic factions fighting one another to death with civilians caught in the middle. Nothing new here then. Thankfully Britain and the west are not involved in this one. However it seems the far left are doing all they can to make it our fault. And emp if you feel so strongly about this conflict from your cork social revolutionary bunker that you burst into tears in front of the tele then have some backbone instread of posting on koptalk go and help with the humanitarian work on the ground. That would impress me posting nonsense in your string vest surrounded by empty beer cans and half eaten pizzas is not impressive


I liked that bit! But he won't as it's way too comfy in the West that he hates so much to bother with that. He is off to Barcelona to make the world a better place though so I'll cut him some slack.


you both like that kinda ridicule , is it close to home or something?
I dont drink bty and rarely ever eat pizza


Well maybe you should have a bear and a slice of pizza. It might lighten you up a bit and stop you spouting so much bollox.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 09:16 PM

Its not bollox its the only way the human race is gonna survive, and its not me concluding that, i listen and read the civil and human rights academics of the day.They are the ones flashing big warning signs about the direction we are going, we have to change. Martin L King, Howard Zinn, Edward Said, Sheldon Wolin, Chomsky these kinda people u should read, even Einstein warned we were heading for destruction . You may call it bollox but i reckon you just haven't looked at it properly , who do u read about social and civil issues?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 09:25 PM

Well we better all listen then as it must be true.

I read Viz and The Sport. Gives me all I need.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 09:31 PM

Have a read or listen to them and u can judge whether they speak the truth or not.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 09:48 PM

Iíll get straight on it. Iíve been having trouble sleeping lately so it might help.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 10:11 PM

I am sure it will help you in an entirely more holistic way. I hope it does anyway.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 14/10/18 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Its not bollox its the only way the human race is gonna survive, and its not me concluding that, i listen and read the civil and human rights academics of the day.They are the ones flashing big warning signs about the direction we are going, we have to change. Martin L King, Howard Zinn, Edward Said, Sheldon Wolin, Chomsky these kinda people u should read, even Einstein warned we were heading for destruction . You may call it bollox but i reckon you just haven't looked at it properly , who do u read about social and civil issues?


Me ? I never read anything ever I am as thick as a plank. Not like you mr emp who can read stuff. Anyway mr emp sir in the little difference of opinion going on in Yemen I wonder if you could be so kind enough to suggest which of the various Islamic lunatic warlords we should support ?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/10/18 12:20 AM

None , the west has enough blood on its hands, Stop using the middle east as a war zone to sell arms to , the UN must be empowered . The west has shown itself to be a complete disaster for people in the middle east.death is all the west brings.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? - 15/10/18 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
None , the west has enough blood on its hands, Stop using the middle east as a war zone to sell arms to , the UN must be empowered . The west has shown itself to be a complete disaster for people in the middle east.death is all the west brings.


Sounds like the west is an awful rotter, death to the west. Got a busy week ahead I have ordered your nine books from Amazon aim to read them by the end of the week or maybe I will have a cup of tea and clotted cream scone and not read them at all.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:36 AM

By the way I understand the correct order is the Jam first on the scone and then (and only then) spread the clotted cream. Sorry emp for interrupting just thought this needed straightening out before we go further
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 06:41 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
By the way I understand the correct order is the Jam first on the scone and then (and only then) spread the clotted cream. Sorry emp for interrupting just thought this needed straightening out before we go further


Btw, your Tory govt is a fking mess, incredible. The EU says customs union or Canada type trade deal, your Tory party doesn't know what to do, or rather, you have some who want a sort of customs union and the other trade deal. May has to sort out her party first, before even starting to negotiate with the EU. Only thing to sort that out MAYBE is a new government. Until then the madhouse continues. UK is ending up being a joke, seriously, all because of the Tory party, and I am not even a leftie.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:21 AM

Theyíd all be a joke vish. Despite what they might say no one party is fully united in Brexit apart from maybe the Lib Demís who want to cancel it. So in that respect not even a new government would work or be able to get us a good deal in what is now only 165 days.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 09:52 AM

labour would get a deal easily because they wouldn't have the DUP calling the shots which is what the actual problem is. Calling that election has killed the Tories.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 10:59 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
labour would get a deal easily because they wouldn't have the DUP calling the shots which is what the actual problem is. Calling that election has killed the Tories.


Well we don't have labour in power and hopefully we never will while that Marxist student politician has control of what was once a mainstream party. With the likes of keir starmer around they probably would easy get a deal because they would agree to everything the EU wants. Agreed it was a mistake to call that snap election (we may well get another) however I don't agree the DUP are calling the shots they have supported the government up to now they are right though to stop the government treating Northern Ireland different to the rest of the United Kingdom that seems perfectly reasonable and they are right to put their foot down
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:02 PM

But they choose when they want to be different..like womens health ,or gay rights..when u put ur foot down to them?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
labour would get a deal easily because they wouldn't have the DUP calling the shots which is what the actual problem is. Calling that election has killed the Tories.


Well we don't have labour in power and hopefully we never will while that Marxist student politician has control of what was once a mainstream party. With the likes of keir starmer around they probably would easy get a deal because they would agree to everything the EU wants. Agreed it was a mistake to call that snap election (we may well get another) however I don't agree the DUP are calling the shots they have supported the government up to now they are right though to stop the government treating Northern Ireland different to the rest of the United Kingdom that seems perfectly reasonable and they are right to put their foot down


I actually think labour would be more up ur alley now, they want out and a deal and to take back control of industry which u have lamented before was thatchers one big mistake.. and bty thatcher loved europe , tories voted in and supported all sorts of EU intanglements ..you still a big tory back then, when did u develop your more anti eu persona was it when a more popular hate movement came along?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
labour would get a deal easily because they wouldn't have the DUP calling the shots which is what the actual problem is. Calling that election has killed the Tories.


Well we don't have labour in power and hopefully we never will while that Marxist student politician has control of what was once a mainstream party. With the likes of keir starmer around they probably would easy get a deal because they would agree to everything the EU wants. Agreed it was a mistake to call that snap election (we may well get another) however I don't agree the DUP are calling the shots they have supported the government up to now they are right though to stop the government treating Northern Ireland different to the rest of the United Kingdom that seems perfectly reasonable and they are right to put their foot down


A lot of Tories would want what he wants as a deal, don't you know that. Tories are a fking joke right now, and for some time.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:15 PM

Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:15 PM

damn u must have never voted tory again after that
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
But they choose when they want to be different..like womens health ,or gay rights..when u put ur foot down to them?


Look I did not vote for the DUP i cant even if I wanted to. Who did vote them in power ? That would be the good people of Northern Ireland any issues you have take it up with them. However I do agree with the DUP,s stance Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and should not be treated differently
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:23 PM

Breaking news May is going to make a statement at 2pm this is going to be interesting
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:25 PM

just its citizens , like womens human rights. Its a pay off, you give them loads of money and they vote for u once u don't nation status different to them, but human rights issues..blaaaa feck the people of n ireland they ain't british?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Breaking news May is going to make a statement at 2pm this is going to be interesting


2pm means october 2021 in brexit time
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
just its citizens , like womens human rights. Its a pay off, you give them loads of money and they vote for u once u don't nation status different to them, but human rights issues..blaaaa feck the people of n ireland they ain't british?


How you deduce that gibberish from what I posted god knows.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:40 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Breaking news May is going to make a statement at 2pm this is going to be interesting


Probably resigning, who would blame her? Or get prepared for a no deal because of the wicked EU are not giving the UK their self promised cake?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:41 PM

You posted N ireland should not be treated different than the uk , but it is, by the DUP's choice. We all bloody know its just a pay off so the tories can remain in charge , we saw the pay off ...meanwhile uk citizens in N ireland are treated different to the rest of the UK in urgent basic things like womens health. So they choose to be different in somethings but not others
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
But they choose when they want to be different..like womens health ,or gay rights..when u put ur foot down to them?


Look I did not vote for the DUP i cant even if I wanted to. Who did vote them in power ? That would be the good people of Northern Ireland any issues you have take it up with them. However I do agree with the DUP,s stance Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and should not be treated differently


Who entered into partnership with the DUP? The Tory party

Who initiated Brexit? The Tory party

N. Ireland should not be treated differently. Apart from when it comes to gay rights and abortion laws.

This whole sorry mess was created by the Tory party. You should take it up with them.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:51 PM

From what I can find out both sides are very close but the EU wanted to expand border checks in Northern Ireland pointing out they already happen between NI and Scotland at larne. The British have refused I presume the DUP are behind it. Shaggy I thought that was what you wanted to avoid so are you going to thank the DUP ? And if you don't like the DUP then vote them out I am not responsible for the DUP the majority of people in Northern Ireland are.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:53 PM

he should thank them for what u presume?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:54 PM

Maybe Northern Ireland should be run from Downing Street? Would that ale people happy?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 12:55 PM

already is. The DUP don't want their scandals investigated ,losing millions and millions in cash for ash , so they sent it back to downing st.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
already is. The DUP don't want their scandals investigated ,losing millions and millions in cash for ash , so they sent it back to downing st.


Spot on emp. The scandal ridden DUP have wasted upwards of half a billion pounds in the cash for ash scandal.

The people who have put the DUP in this position of power are the Tory party. No one else.

Also the DUP are going against the "democratic" wishes of the electorate in N. Ireland who voted to remain.

The pantomime continues.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 01:07 PM

Even more sinister than wasting it seems as this inquiry gets into it..more like stealing, evidence that DUP members were telling friendlies to leave their heat on for more cash.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 01:11 PM

Still least they can spend that uk tax payer pay off the tories gave them
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By EMP
already is. The DUP don't want their scandals investigated ,losing millions and millions in cash for ash , so they sent it back to downing st.


Spot on emp. The scandal ridden DUP have wasted upwards of half a billion pounds in the cash for ash scandal.

The people who have put the DUP in this position of power are the Tory party. No one else.

Also the DUP are going against the "democratic" wishes of the electorate in N. Ireland who voted to remain.

The pantomime continues.


Surely itís the people of Northern Ireland who voted them in thatís out then in this position? Yes the Conservatives have teamed up with them but if they werenít voted in in the first place they wouldnít have been able to would they? Personally, Iíd blame Corbyn grin

Also, donít you want to go against the democratic will of the nation, one that includes Northern Ireland?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By EMP
already is. The DUP don't want their scandals investigated ,losing millions and millions in cash for ash , so they sent it back to downing st.


Spot on emp. The scandal ridden DUP have wasted upwards of half a billion pounds in the cash for ash scandal.

The people who have put the DUP in this position of power are the Tory party. No one else.

Also the DUP are going against the "democratic" wishes of the electorate in N. Ireland who voted to remain.

The pantomime continues.


Surely itís the people of Northern Ireland who voted them in thatís out then in this position? Yes the Conservatives have teamed up with them but if they werenít voted in in the first place they wouldnít have been able to would they? Personally, Iíd blame Corbyn grin

Also, donít you want to go against the democratic will of the nation, one that includes Northern Ireland?


The tories were free to enter into agreement with any party in Britain, they chose the DUP.

I'm Irish wilki so what people in Britain want to do is up to you. We in Ireland are just collateral damage

Here in N. Ireland we voted to remain. The DUP however are completely ignoring their electorate and pushing for the hardest possible Brexit. I know who is ignoring the democratic will of their electorate over here.

Also we are no different from anywhere else in the UK until it comes to gay rights and abortion law. The DUP are indeed having their cake and eating it.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 03:02 PM

I get that the Torties chose to deal with the DUP but someone over there yet like them or they wouldnít have the MPís that they do. That part isnít down to the Torries.

Unfortunately for you youíre part of the UK which has voted leave whether NI did or not. Scotland are in the same position and I feel for you all as a remain voter but thatís just how it is Iím afraid. Thereís no way around it for you and that sucks.

I donít know exactly how NI is governed but Iím sure itís democratic and if the majority want change in hay rights and abortion then surely you can do something about it? Or is it up to the PM to step in? I do t know as I said.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
I get that the Torties chose to deal with the DUP but someone over there yet like them or they wouldnít have the MPís that they do. That part isnít down to the Torries.

Unfortunately for you youíre part of the UK which has voted leave whether NI did or not. Scotland are in the same position and I feel for you all as a remain voter but thatís just how it is Iím afraid. Thereís no way around it for you and that sucks.

I donít know exactly how NI is governed but Iím sure itís democratic and if the majority want change in hay rights and abortion then surely you can do something about it? Or is it up to the PM to step in? I do t know as I said.


I have no problem with the overall vote, my problem is with the DUP completely ignoring their own electorate.

No, unfortunately in N. Ireland democracy is a strange beast. The DUP are able to use a petition of concern veto which blocks legislation being introduced. During the most recent vote on same sex marriage in the assembly 53 voted in favour 52 against and still the DUP were able to block implementation. Welcome to democracy in N. Ireland in the 21st Century.

Corbyn is probably behind the whole thing.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 04:33 PM

Like I said, I donít know how it works there. How can they veto a vote like that then? Does seem strange that they have that power. But you are a democracy (of sorts by the look of that) so surely it can be changed?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 05:12 PM

the hell was this 2pm announcement? its 2pm and all is the same...the feck is going on over there.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 05:18 PM

"Another nothing-has-changed moment from this shambles of a government.Ē
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 05:39 PM

The announcement will come when Jose is sacked.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
"Another nothing-has-changed moment from this shambles of a government.Ē


What should they say when nothing has changed? From what I read theyíre not far apart from a solution. But donít let that stop you criticising when thereís nothing to criticise.

At least Corbyn is still playing politics and waiting to swoop in and save the day by showing his arse to the EU.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
"Another nothing-has-changed moment from this shambles of a government.Ē


What should they say when nothing has changed? From what I read theyíre not far apart from a solution. But donít let that stop you criticising when thereís nothing to criticise.

At least Corbyn is still playing politics and waiting to swoop in and save the day by showing his arse to the EU.


And what is Bojo and/or Davis doing, are they not supposed to support their leader?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 06:07 PM

I would say do yes but we all know theyíre self serving w[email protected] like ALL politicians.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 06:42 PM

Have you got a dropper post?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 06:45 PM

My reading of the situation is the EU are milking the Irish border issue until the last minute hoping to extract maximum concessions from the British. The British are holding their ground a stand off is happening. But ask yourself this ? Will a small amount of cross border farm produce (across the Irish border) result in a no deal with all the implications for trade across the EU and UK including germanys massive manufacturing industry with vast markets in the U.K. Maybe ? But I can't see it more theatre to follow but a deal will be done. Both sides agree other than the Irish border the deal is almost complete and was almost completed this weekend. I may be wrong but let's see
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Have you got a dropper post?


Back to a proper subject again grin

Yeah I got one last year after I went to Wales. It was something I didnít think I needed but it got annoying to keep stopping and dropping my post manually. Was a right pain in the arse to fit though as the cable runs inside the frame for a bit.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:04 PM

I can see how handy they could be,best buy the bike first.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:06 PM

You're a big lad like myself.. 22" frame?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My reading of the situation is the EU are milking the Irish border issue until the last minute hoping to extract maximum concessions from the British. The British are holding their ground a stand off is happening. But ask yourself this ? Will a small amount of cross border farm produce (across the Irish border) result in a no deal with all the implications for trade across the EU and UK including germanys massive manufacturing industry with vast markets in the U.K. Maybe ? But I can't see it more theatre to follow but a deal will be done. Both sides agree other than the Irish border the deal is almost complete and was almost completed this weekend. I may be wrong but let's see


Pretending the Irish border is a non-issue will not make it go away.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:15 PM

Do you think a bike thread would be popular?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Do you think a bike thread would be popular?


Well the trial version has gone well grin
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
You're a big lad like myself.. 22" frame?


Frame size is a bit different now than it used to be. Iím big so yeah I get the biggest frame normally but bikes tend to be longer in the top tube now while being quite low so itís difficult to compare to the old standard. Have a google at bike geometry as it might help but itís best just to try one.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:26 PM

Gonna nip down to Halfords this week and give the Bizango a go go.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By lumba
Do you think a bike thread would be popular?


Well the trial version has gone well grin

laugh Yeh soz about that.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My reading of the situation is the EU are milking the Irish border issue until the last minute hoping to extract maximum concessions from the British. The British are holding their ground a stand off is happening. But ask yourself this ? Will a small amount of cross border farm produce (across the Irish border) result in a no deal with all the implications for trade across the EU and UK including germanys massive manufacturing industry with vast markets in the U.K. Maybe ? But I can't see it more theatre to follow but a deal will be done. Both sides agree other than the Irish border the deal is almost complete and was almost completed this weekend. I may be wrong but let's see


Pretending the Irish border is a non-issue will not make it go away.


It's the EU,s main lever once it's no longer useful to the EU it will return to its rightful place as a total non issue. Unless the cabbages and potatoes going over the border are the engine room of the European economy even you are not going to claim that surely ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
My reading of the situation is the EU are milking the Irish border issue until the last minute hoping to extract maximum concessions from the British. The British are holding their ground a stand off is happening. But ask yourself this ? Will a small amount of cross border farm produce (across the Irish border) result in a no deal with all the implications for trade across the EU and UK including germanys massive manufacturing industry with vast markets in the U.K. Maybe ? But I can't see it more theatre to follow but a deal will be done. Both sides agree other than the Irish border the deal is almost complete and was almost completed this weekend. I may be wrong but let's see


Pretending the Irish border is a non-issue will not make it go away.


It's the EU,s main lever once it's no longer useful to the EU it will return to its rightful place as a total non issue. Unless the cabbages and potatoes going over the border are the engine room of the European economy even you are not going to claim that surely ?


The border issue is a huge concern to the people of Ireland. Britain made a commitment to provide a backstop and you are simply being asked to honour that commitment.

Trying to blame everyone else but yourselves won't make the problem go away.
After today you now have a dead duck PM no feasible Brexit strategy and a parliament that is more divided than ever.

Who's fault is that?

Personally I blame Corbyn
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 08:05 PM

Wrong Shaggy its Jew hating Corbyn. Strong and stable
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Wrong Shaggy its Jew hating Corbyn. Strong and stable


If that's strong and stable she's never building a wall for me.

All for a blue passport.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 08:17 PM

I am sure the border is important to the people who live around the border with the republic and the british government and the northern ireland leader from the DUP have pledged to ensure no hard border and I am 1000% sure that will happen. However lovely scenery though it is its not even a rounding error in UK / EU trade. I recall mentioning that to you many times before as always you cant grasp it. I also believe once the republic has outlived its usefulness in brexit it will also be an abandoned outpost of the EU. Irexit will grow and grow its inevitable trade / social / culture everything in ireland is very closely linked to britain. since 1923 we have had free movement of peoples and that will continue
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure the border is important to the people who live around the border with the republic and the british government and the northern ireland leader from the DUP have pledged to ensure no hard border and I am 1000% sure that will happen. However lovely scenery though it is its not even a rounding error in UK / EU trade. I recall mentioning that to you many times before as always you cant grasp it. I also believe once the republic has outlived its usefulness in brexit it will also be an abandoned outpost of the EU. Irexit will grow and grow its inevitable trade / social / culture everything in ireland is very closely linked to britain. since 1923 we have had free movement of peoples and that will continue


Oh dear. So your the solution now is that the Republic will exit the EU.

What country in their right mind would push to leave the EU after the Brexit pantomime.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure the border is important to the people who live around the border with the republic and the british government and the northern ireland leader from the DUP have pledged to ensure no hard border and I am 1000% sure that will happen. However lovely scenery though it is its not even a rounding error in UK / EU trade. I recall mentioning that to you many times before as always you cant grasp it. I also believe once the republic has outlived its usefulness in brexit it will also be an abandoned outpost of the EU. Irexit will grow and grow its inevitable trade / social / culture everything in ireland is very closely linked to britain. since 1923 we have had free movement of peoples and that will continue


Oh dear. So your the solution now is that the Republic will exit the EU.

What country in their right mind would push to leave the EU after the Brexit pantomime.


That is precisely the EU,s plan to punish any country that dares leave and frighten others into not attempting it. Fortunately the British people don't take kindly to threats and bullies. Cant see how post brexit Ireland fits the EU model of eventual United States of Europe.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure the border is important to the people who live around the border with the republic and the british government and the northern ireland leader from the DUP have pledged to ensure no hard border and I am 1000% sure that will happen. However lovely scenery though it is its not even a rounding error in UK / EU trade. I recall mentioning that to you many times before as always you cant grasp it. I also believe once the republic has outlived its usefulness in brexit it will also be an abandoned outpost of the EU. Irexit will grow and grow its inevitable trade / social / culture everything in ireland is very closely linked to britain. since 1923 we have had free movement of peoples and that will continue


Oh dear. So your the solution now is that the Republic will exit the EU.

What country in their right mind would push to leave the EU after the Brexit pantomime.


That is precisely the EU,s plan to punish any country that dares leave and frighten others into not attempting it. Fortunately the British people don't take kindly to threats and bullies. Cant see how post brexit Ireland fits the EU model of eventual United States of Europe.


It is a negotiation not a war. Britain gave a commitment and is being asked to deliver on that commitment. The fact that May can't now deliver that commitment is not the fault of the EU.

But if you want to pass the whole thing off as a conspiracy you go right ahead.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 09:31 PM

The £39 billion was the commitment that's agreed. We are now discussing the withdrawal agreement. It feels like a war the EU simply stonewalls and they are aided by many British politicians who want to stop brexit by undermining our negotiating position. To an extent they have succeeded. I do believe a deal will be done eventually but I feel it will be worse deal than had our politicians worked together for the good of Britain. No chance of that our politicians are a disgrace and completely out of touch with ordinary British people.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 09:35 PM

take to streets like u said.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 15/10/18 10:22 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The £39 billion was the commitment that's agreed. We are now discussing the withdrawal agreement. It feels like a war the EU simply stonewalls and they are aided by many British politicians who want to stop brexit by undermining our negotiating position. To an extent they have succeeded. I do believe a deal will be done eventually but I feel it will be worse deal than had our politicians worked together for the good of Britain. No chance of that our politicians are a disgrace and completely out of touch with ordinary British people.


You also agreed on a backstop for the Irish border. Pretending you didn't won't make it go away.

Your government has no plausible Brexit strategy, but neither does the brexiteers.

Your politicians lied to you, promising a Brexit that could never be delivered in the real world. No wonder you are angry.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 03:34 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am sure the border is important to the people who live around the border with the republic and the british government and the northern ireland leader from the DUP have pledged to ensure no hard border and I am 1000% sure that will happen. However lovely scenery though it is its not even a rounding error in UK / EU trade. I recall mentioning that to you many times before as always you cant grasp it. I also believe once the republic has outlived its usefulness in brexit it will also be an abandoned outpost of the EU. Irexit will grow and grow its inevitable trade / social / culture everything in ireland is very closely linked to britain. since 1923 we have had free movement of peoples and that will continue


Oh dear. So your the solution now is that the Republic will exit the EU.

What country in their right mind would push to leave the EU after the Brexit pantomime.


That is precisely the EU,s plan to punish any country that dares leave and frighten others into not attempting it. Fortunately the British people don't take kindly to threats and bullies. Cant see how post brexit Ireland fits the EU model of eventual United States of Europe.


Can you please explain how the EU is punishing UK?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:39 AM

British politicans were senior members of the EU , made the uk rich as hell.. British politicans knew full well the difficulties of leaving cause they would have helped make it so difficult .
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 11:04 AM

The EU holds all the cards in the negotiations because they are being assisted by the Labour Party and assorted hard core remain politicians who want to stop brexit many of these are MP,s whose constituents voted leave. With this support all the EU has to do is stonewall. Even if we get a deal the next big hurdle is parliment agreeing it. The negotiations have been simple the politics is the difficulty. Despite all this I do think there will be a deal at the last minute and I do think it will be approved by parliment. But it won't be as good a deal as we could have got thanks to treacherous British MP,s. The EU is inflexiable and immovable and treats nation states with contempt pre the referedum all these remain politicians who said we could reform the EU from within we're talking tripe. The EU is a dictatorship and has one long term aim a United States of Europe controlled by Germany and France nothing must stand in the way of that. Not my opinion many of the Eastern European countries are openly in conflict with the EU, Italy is in complete economic and political meltdown and the other southern EU states are not far behind. The British people voted to leave the EU and they were absolutely right to do so. Whatever the politicians come up with Britain leaving the EU is irreversable politically
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 11:19 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The EU holds all the cards in the negotiations because they are being assisted by the Labour Party and assorted hard core remain politicians who want to stop brexit many of these are MP,s whose constituents voted leave. With this support all the EU has to do is stonewall. Even if we get a deal the next big hurdle is parliment agreeing it. The negotiations have been simple the politics is the difficulty. Despite all this I do think there will be a deal at the last minute and I do think it will be approved by parliment. But it won't be as good a deal as we could have got thanks to treacherous British MP,s. The EU is inflexiable and immovable and treats nation states with contempt pre the referedum all these remain politicians who said we could reform the EU from within we're talking tripe. The EU is a dictatorship and has one long term aim a United States of Europe controlled by Germany and France nothing must stand in the way of that. Not my opinion many of the Eastern European countries are openly in conflict with the EU, Italy is in complete economic and political meltdown and the other southern EU states are not far behind. The British people voted to leave the EU and they were absolutely right to do so. Whatever the politicians come up with Britain leaving the EU is irreversable politically


I read the first line where the whole thing is the fault of the Labour Party and didn't bother reading the rest of it.

Utterly pathetic
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 11:30 AM

I didn't say the whole thing was the fault of the Labour Party as anyone who can read English and has a semblance of inteligence can see. However the Labour Party have clearly paid party politics rather than for the good of the nation even more disgraceful when almost all labour heartlands in the Midlands and north voted to leave.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I didn't say the whole thing was the fault of the Labour Party as anyone who can read English and has a semblance of inteligence can see. However the Labour Party have clearly paid party politics rather than for the good of the nation even more disgraceful when almost all labour heartlands in the Midlands and north voted to leave.


Nope, still pathetic. Everyone's fault but the mad brexiteers.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 12:26 PM

Fairly standard answer from you which we are all used too. Slogans and taunts is the limit of your capability. Emp is at times as mad as a hatter but he can articulate a view I don't agree with most of Vish,s poltics but he clearly is educated on current affairs. Don't you ever feel embarrassed shaggy ? I dont welcome this or take any pleasure from it people post to debate not receive these childish taunts
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Fairly standard answer from you which we are all used too. Slogans and taunts is the limit of your capability. Emp is at times as mad as a hatter but he can articulate a view I don't agree with most of Vish,s poltics but he clearly is educated on current affairs. Don't you ever feel embarrassed shaggy ? I dont welcome this or take any pleasure from it people post to debate not receive these childish taunts


Name calling is all you have left Stan because you have no answers.

You are now pretending that your government didn't give a backstop assurance on the Irish border issue.

Today's gem is that the Brexit negotiations fiasco is labour's fault.

# Blue passports
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 01:22 PM

Oh well I have long since accepted no coherent thoughts will come from that direction. No matter

Back in the real world my thoughts are the sides are very close even in principle they both agree a backstop for Northern Ireland as far as I can see all other others are agreed unless others know differently? As far as the backstop concerned it's the detailed technical wording that's the issue and defined end date. What the answer is above my pay grade but to my mind it's unlikely that would end the agreement having come this far. I could be wrong but my guess is at the final hour agreement will be reached and it will be sold as a great success by both sides. Even though it will be probably a mish mash I am naive I still think policians should work for the people's benefit. How naive am I ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Oh well I have long since accepted no coherent thoughts will come from that direction. No matter

Back in the real world my thoughts are the sides are very close even in principle they both agree a backstop for Northern Ireland as far as I can see all other others are agreed unless others know differently? As far as the backstop concerned it's the detailed technical wording that's the issue and defined end date. What the answer is above my pay grade but to my mind it's unlikely that would end the agreement having come this far. I could be wrong but my guess is at the final hour agreement will be reached and it will be sold as a great success by both sides. Even though it will be probably a mish mash I am naive I still think policians should work for the people's benefit. How naive am I ?


Back in the real world brexiteers are now beginning to realise that you can't have your cake and eat it.

You will get the deal that best suits Europe. But you're right, it will be dressed up as a great victory for Britain.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 04:09 PM

There you go again "have your cake and eat it" a saying you have picked up and I know if I asked you to explain it in context you couldn't. Of course if we leave the EU we cant expect to have the same terms as members odd politicians might have said that but anyone with half (or in some cases less) a brain can see that can't happen nor should it. We are no longer members of the EU. But we could still get a fair trading deal with the EU while respecting the wishes of the majority of the electorate. I don't know whether it's social media 24x7 news channels but politics is now all cosmetic. My feeling is right at the very end we will get a fudged deal that suits neither party and both sides will be congratulating themselves. On nothing.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There you go again "have your cake and eat it" a saying you have picked up and I know if I asked you to explain it in context you couldn't. Of course if we leave the EU we cant expect to have the same terms as members odd politicians might have said that but anyone with half (or in some cases less) a brain can see that can't happen nor should it. We are no longer members of the EU. But we could still get a fair trading deal with the EU while respecting the wishes of the majority of the electorate. I don't know whether it's social media 24x7 news channels but politics is now all cosmetic. My feeling is right at the very end we will get a fudged deal that suits neither party and both sides will be congratulating themselves. On nothing.


So what does a fudge achieve? Nothing. So what was the Point?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Oh well I have long since accepted no coherent thoughts will come from that direction. No matter

Back in the real world my thoughts are the sides are very close even in principle they both agree a backstop for Northern Ireland as far as I can see all other others are agreed unless others know differently? As far as the backstop concerned it's the detailed technical wording that's the issue and defined end date. What the answer is above my pay grade but to my mind it's unlikely that would end the agreement having come this far. I could be wrong but my guess is at the final hour agreement will be reached and it will be sold as a great success by both sides. Even though it will be probably a mish mash I am naive I still think policians should work for the people's benefit. How naive am I ?


I think youíre right. This is all posturing from both sides. A deal will be done as itís in the EUís interest as much as it is ours. It wonít keep everyone happy but it never would have.

The sooner it gets done the better and the sooner our cvnt fizzle politicians stop playing politics with the future of the UK the better.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Oh well I have long since accepted no coherent thoughts will come from that direction. No matter

Back in the real world my thoughts are the sides are very close even in principle they both agree a backstop for Northern Ireland as far as I can see all other others are agreed unless others know differently? As far as the backstop concerned it's the detailed technical wording that's the issue and defined end date. What the answer is above my pay grade but to my mind it's unlikely that would end the agreement having come this far. I could be wrong but my guess is at the final hour agreement will be reached and it will be sold as a great success by both sides. Even though it will be probably a mish mash I am naive I still think policians should work for the people's benefit. How naive am I ?


I think youíre right. This is all posturing from both sides. A deal will be done as itís in the EUís interest as much as it is ours. It wonít keep everyone happy but it never would have.

The sooner it gets done the better and the sooner our cvnt fizzle politicians stop playing politics with the future of the UK the better.


Once you leave the EU wilki those same politicians have free reign in the U.K.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:11 PM

Thatís fair enough. Back to normal then. But now when we have so little time to get a deal with all thatís gone on and hard work going on on that deal, isnít the time for fukkwits to be calling for a general election or for even bigger fukkwits to be dicking around with their own party.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:34 PM

Perfect time to call for an election.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:37 PM

Who thinks it would be a good idea to have a national holiday for the burning of David Cameron effigies?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Perfect time to call for an election.


Why?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:55 PM

Oh dear.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Thatís fair enough. Back to normal then. But now when we have so little time to get a deal with all thatís gone on and hard work going on on that deal, isnít the time for fukkwits to be calling for a general election or for even bigger fukkwits to be dicking around with their own party.


It's normal for the opposition to call for elections when the divided cabinet and government is doing a shytty job
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Oh dear.


Hey thatís my line.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Thatís fair enough. Back to normal then. But now when we have so little time to get a deal with all thatís gone on and hard work going on on that deal, isnít the time for fukkwits to be calling for a general election or for even bigger fukkwits to be dicking around with their own party.


It's normal for the opposition to call for elections when the divided cabinet and government is doing a shytty job


What are you benchmarking their shittey job against? And do you not think itíd be best to all work for the good of the country and not the good of themselves?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:15 PM

So now you want collectivism.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Thatís fair enough. Back to normal then. But now when we have so little time to get a deal with all thatís gone on and hard work going on on that deal, isnít the time for fukkwits to be calling for a general election or for even bigger fukkwits to be dicking around with their own party.


It's normal for the opposition to call for elections when the divided cabinet and government is doing a shytty job


What are you benchmarking their shittey job against? And do you not think itíd be best to all work for the good of the country and not the good of themselves?


Against what makes sense. After 2 years your government hasn't agreed among themselves whether they want a Canada type trade deal or a customs union. I am sure they all think they are working for the good of their country.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:30 PM

Probably missed in all this news is employment is at record levels and wage growth is increasing. If this is as bad then I hope it remains bad for a long time. I don't know what to make of Theresa May but most reasonable people would have to conceed she has had probably the most difficult job as prime minister since thatcher and Churchill. I note our remain experts on here are good at pointing out what is wrong not quite so good at explaining what they would do were they in mays shoes other than cancelling brexit the day after the vote. I don't like the chequers deal but given the politics I am not sure what I would have done differently. What a pity in this time of national need opposition parties could not support the government in the national interest instead of playing party politics with such an important issue
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Thatís fair enough. Back to normal then. But now when we have so little time to get a deal with all thatís gone on and hard work going on on that deal, isnít the time for fukkwits to be calling for a general election or for even bigger fukkwits to be dicking around with their own party.


It's normal for the opposition to call for elections when the divided cabinet and government is doing a shytty job


What are you benchmarking their shittey job against? And do you not think itíd be best to all work for the good of the country and not the good of themselves?


Against what makes sense. After 2 years your government hasn't agreed among themselves whether they want a Canada type trade deal or a customs union. I am sure they all think they are working for the good of their country.


Ah so youíve done a few of these type of deals and know whatís best for our country then? Best anyone else who wants to leave comes to see you then.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
So now you want collectivism.


There shouldíve been a cross party group to do this not just the government. Iím sure I read people wanted it but May didnít which is a mistake in my eyes. To get whatís best for the whole country needs everyoneís input. But it was her perogative not to I guess.
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:39 PM

I'm gonna rob your punchline again... Oh dear.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:40 PM

I am not talking about the solution but the process to get to the solution. She hasn't been able to unite her cabinet, let alone the government and no need to mention the MPs. I understand it's almost impossible to get the opposition on your side, but your own cabinet is the minimum, don't you think? She is a shyte leader to me, not even being able to unite her cabinet.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
I am not talking about the solution but the process to get to the solution. She hasn't been able to unite her cabinet, let alone the government and no need to mention the MPs. I understand it's almost impossible to get the opposition on your side, but your own cabinet is the minimum, don't you think? She is a shyte leader to me, not even being able to unite her cabinet.


You have a point but she had a minority government and hence did not have a lot of power. With hindsight she should have stuck to her Lancaster house position moving from that has caused the split we are seeing now.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
I am not talking about the solution but the process to get to the solution. She hasn't been able to unite her cabinet, let alone the government and no need to mention the MPs. I understand it's almost impossible to get the opposition on your side, but your own cabinet is the minimum, don't you think? She is a shyte leader to me, not even being able to unite her cabinet.


So how do you keep all your MPís on side? Should she have just sacked them? There is no way to make people tow the line if the really donít want to especially the likes of Boris who are just out for themselves. I canít remember the last time there werenít rebels in any political party. For me it says more about those going against her than it does her leadership.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I'm gonna rob your punchline again... Oh dear.


Why and stop it! Itís reserved for me and me only.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
I am not talking about the solution but the process to get to the solution. She hasn't been able to unite her cabinet, let alone the government and no need to mention the MPs. I understand it's almost impossible to get the opposition on your side, but your own cabinet is the minimum, don't you think? She is a shyte leader to me, not even being able to unite her cabinet.


So how do you keep all your MPís on side? Should she have just sacked them? There is no way to make people tow the line if the really donít want to especially the likes of Boris who are just out for themselves. I canít remember the last time there werenít rebels in any political party. For me it says more about those going against her than it does her leadership.


This shows that she has no leadership. There are disagreements in any organisation but it's up to the leader to lead, to influence, to convince. Not saying it's easy, but do you think it was easier for Churchill or De Gaule or Gandhi or Mandela? Your country is so divided that only a good leader could work something out to unite a majority, wrong person at the wrong place.

In fact the choice is clear, do you think you will be better to trade with the EU without borders (customs union) or trade with the world (trade deal)? Politicians don't know that but they can get economists and businessmen (from both sides of the equation) to help them out, get them to debate openly to the cabinet and then agree a vision. Only then you go into negotiations. Regarding your MPs, you tell them that if there is no majority you'll have no option but to call a general election, very few who are already elected would like to go for elections. She is useless.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 07:56 PM

Sheís trying to keep people in line that donít want to be kept in line. Itís not like running a company. These are people who are out for themselves and themselves only. Politicians have shown time and time again that they canít be kept in line and I canít remember any leader in this country that has managed this. So not really sure how it shows sheís a bad leader?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 16/10/18 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Probably missed in all this news is employment is at record levels and wage growth is increasing. If this is as bad then I hope it remains bad for a long time. I don't know what to make of Theresa May but most reasonable people would have to conceed she has had probably the most difficult job as prime minister since thatcher and Churchill. I note our remain experts on here are good at pointing out what is wrong not quite so good at explaining what they would do were they in mays shoes other than cancelling brexit the day after the vote. I don't like the chequers deal but given the politics I am not sure what I would have done differently. What a pity in this time of national need opposition parties could not support the government in the national interest instead of playing party politics with such an important issue


You do realise you are STILL in the EU?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 03:52 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Sheís trying to keep people in line that donít want to be kept in line. Itís not like running a company. These are people who are out for themselves and themselves only. Politicians have shown time and time again that they canít be kept in line and I canít remember any leader in this country that has managed this. So not really sure how it shows sheís a bad leader?


What's the main job of a leader (this is what she is, isn't t) according to you? She cannot handle them as she has no authority. She moves with the wave instead of forcing through her convictions, if she has them of course. She has a big stick if required, which is called general elections, all PMs have this and all MPs in power are afraid of this. She also has a big advantage, nobody seems to want her job.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 06:52 AM

Not yet anyway, they just need her there for the bad news part then the vultures like boris will swoop. Some leaders then u will have.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Sheís trying to keep people in line that donít want to be kept in line. Itís not like running a company. These are people who are out for themselves and themselves only. Politicians have shown time and time again that they canít be kept in line and I canít remember any leader in this country that has managed this. So not really sure how it shows sheís a bad leader?


What's the main job of a leader (this is what she is, isn't t) according to you? She cannot handle them as she has no authority. She moves with the wave instead of forcing through her convictions, if she has them of course. She has a big stick if required, which is called general elections, all PMs have this and all MPs in power are afraid of this. She also has a big advantage, nobody seems to want her job.


The thing is you canít compare her job to any normal job. As a manager or leader of a company itís much easier to keep people in line and most workers respect their authority. MOís are so much different. Yes she has a big stick but then who ever itís used on is on the back benches and can still effect what happens. Itís a democracy you know? If she deselected any of them then there would be big questions to answer around that democracy.

Iím also not entirely sure why MOís would be that concerned about a general election either? A lot of seats are safe so it would only worry the few and people like Boris wouldnít give a crap about it as heíll be safe as people seem to love him for some reason.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
Not yet anyway, they just need her there for the bad news part then the vultures like boris will swoop. Some leaders then u will have.


Agree with that. Her job is impossible and once itís done sheíll be off I would think. Maybe not straight away but it wonít be long. Good on her for being brave enough (or stupid enough) for at least trying to carry out the will of the country and get whatís best for us all. Shame others just want to benefit from it.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Sheís trying to keep people in line that donít want to be kept in line. Itís not like running a company. These are people who are out for themselves and themselves only. Politicians have shown time and time again that they canít be kept in line and I canít remember any leader in this country that has managed this. So not really sure how it shows sheís a bad leader?


What's the main job of a leader (this is what she is, isn't t) according to you? She cannot handle them as she has no authority. She moves with the wave instead of forcing through her convictions, if she has them of course. She has a big stick if required, which is called general elections, all PMs have this and all MPs in power are afraid of this. She also has a big advantage, nobody seems to want her job.


The thing is you canít compare her job to any normal job. As a manager or leader of a company itís much easier to keep people in line and most workers respect their authority. MOís are so much different. Yes she has a big stick but then who ever itís used on is on the back benches and can still effect what happens. Itís a democracy you know? If she deselected any of them then there would be big questions to answer around that democracy.

Iím also not entirely sure why MOís would be that concerned about a general election either? A lot of seats are safe so it would only worry the few and people like Boris wouldnít give a crap about it as heíll be safe as people seem to love him for some reason.


So what is she leading then? She doesn't seem to have much authority and as much as I know, it's the PM who chooses the candidates of the party in an election, isn't it? In my country it's like this, so the leader has significant leverage.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 10:46 AM

The leader doesnít really choose who is an MP. Thatís down to the public. I could join the Tory party and stand in local elections. Sheíll chose the cabinet but booting them out of that just puts them on the back benches where they can still be a pain in the arse and even harder to control. Thatís the only reason Boris was given a cabinet job. I might be wrong but thatís how I think it goes and once you start getting rid of people whoíre democratically elected because they cause a few problems you then start getting into the realms of dictatorships.

Her main problem is that theyíre so devided Iíve this as a party. Obviously when most agree itís easier and sheíd look like a stronger leader.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
The leader doesnít really choose who is an MP. Thatís down to the public. I could join the Tory party and stand in local elections. Sheíll chose the cabinet but booting them out of that just puts them on the back benches where they can still be a pain in the arse and even harder to control. Thatís the only reason Boris was given a cabinet job. I might be wrong but thatís how I think it goes and once you start getting rid of people whoíre democratically elected because they cause a few problems you then start getting into the realms of dictatorships.

Her main problem is that theyíre so devided Iíve this as a party. Obviously when most agree itís easier and sheíd look like a stronger leader.


Hey common, I do understand democracy and as such I never said the PM chooses the MPs, what I asked was whether she was choosing the candidates to become MPs if elected by the people. In my country it's ultimately the PM who chooses the candidate though he us advised. Is it different in UK?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 11:50 AM

Vish local members decide who stand are MP,s e.g for say Wakefield its the local conservative members in wakefield nothing at all to do with the PM. Same policy with labour. The PM chooses the cabinet though from MP,s as for being divided I have never known a british government EVER where there was not division Blairs cabinet was all over the place and the war between brown and blair was famous.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 12:06 PM

To explain further anyone can be a member of the conservative party its £30 a year. Then in my example those people who are members in say wakefield have several candidates put forward in what are called hustings. Each candidate explains why they are best and the members vote. If the candidate gets most votes in the general public election he / she becomes the MP for wakefield
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To explain further anyone can be a member of the conservative party its £30 a year. Then in my example those people who are members in say wakefield have several candidates put forward in what are called hustings. Each candidate explains why they are best and the members vote. If the candidate gets most votes in the general public election he / she becomes the MP for wakefield


Ok I understand, as I said, in Mauritius it at the end the party leader's ultimate choice, probably because everybody knows everybody given our size and there are only 60 candidates per party for a general election. That said, your PMs have leverage on the cabinet and therefore could have authority if well led.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 12:43 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
The leader doesnít really choose who is an MP. Thatís down to the public. I could join the Tory party and stand in local elections. Sheíll chose the cabinet but booting them out of that just puts them on the back benches where they can still be a pain in the arse and even harder to control. Thatís the only reason Boris was given a cabinet job. I might be wrong but thatís how I think it goes and once you start getting rid of people whoíre democratically elected because they cause a few problems you then start getting into the realms of dictatorships.

Her main problem is that theyíre so devided Iíve this as a party. Obviously when most agree itís easier and sheíd look like a stronger leader.


Hey common, I do understand democracy and as such I never said the PM chooses the MPs, what I asked was whether she was choosing the candidates to become MPs if elected by the people. In my country it's ultimately the PM who chooses the candidate though he us advised. Is it different in UK?


Sorry I didnít explain it that well as I wasnít sure if I was right or not grin
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To explain further anyone can be a member of the conservative party its £30 a year. Then in my example those people who are members in say wakefield have several candidates put forward in what are called hustings. Each candidate explains why they are best and the members vote. If the candidate gets most votes in the general public election he / she becomes the MP for wakefield


Ok I understand, as I said, in Mauritius it at the end the party leader's ultimate choice, probably because everybody knows everybody given our size and there are only 60 candidates per party for a general election. That said, your PMs have leverage on the cabinet and therefore could have authority if well led.


Like I said earlier, if she kicks anyone out of the cabinet theyíre still on the back benches where they can still be a massive pain in the arse. Maybe more so as she doesnít have them close to her. The way the Torries are at the minute I think anyone would struggle to lead them effectively.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
To explain further anyone can be a member of the conservative party its £30 a year. Then in my example those people who are members in say wakefield have several candidates put forward in what are called hustings. Each candidate explains why they are best and the members vote. If the candidate gets most votes in the general public election he / she becomes the MP for wakefield


Ok I understand, as I said, in Mauritius it at the end the party leader's ultimate choice, probably because everybody knows everybody given our size and there are only 60 candidates per party for a general election. That said, your PMs have leverage on the cabinet and therefore could have authority if well led.


Like I said earlier, if she kicks anyone out of the cabinet theyíre still on the back benches where they can still be a massive pain in the arse. Maybe more so as she doesnít have them close to her. The way the Torries are at the minute I think anyone would struggle to lead them effectively.


Deep shyte you are in, then
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 01:55 PM

Pointless deep shitte too!
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 05:54 PM

May to me always looks uncomfortable in her own skin, I am not a big fan. However I do increasingly admire her he has an almost impossible task and is getting hit from all sides and yet she carries on. I think history will judge her as a person who did the right thing for the country at a difficult time. There are both Tories and labour politicians who history won't look kindly on from this time. However I don't think May is the leader medium to long term once brexit is delivered (hopefully April) I would like to see a new leader to manage through the transition that might well involve another election before 2022. Just my opinion
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 08:22 PM

She is getting hit because she promises things she can't deliver.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 08:25 PM

And my is she weak, Maggie(god i hated her) but i can acknowledge she was a formidable leader, she would be fighting and shouting back at backstabbers.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 17/10/18 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
And my is she weak, Maggie(god i hated her) but i can acknowledge she was a formidable leader, she would be fighting and shouting back at backstabbers.



She's no Maggie I grant you that
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 18/10/18 04:30 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
And my is she weak, Maggie(god i hated her) but i can acknowledge she was a formidable leader, she would be fighting and shouting back at backstabbers.



She's no Maggie I grant you that


She is nowhere near her, and in such times you need a PM who has authority. What's the plan now? I really think that a no deal would be the best outcome for the UK, only then both leavers and remainers would understand the true consequences. The EU has already said that there will be an option to join again, crashing out might be the best solution to unite such a divided country. If it works well, remainers would end up being happy, if it doesn't then you'll join in again and Brexiters would know why. It would probably be painful but no pain, no gain, right?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 18/10/18 08:06 AM

can't do that, would completlely mess up ireland and then u end up with a war over here again. May is gonna have to convince labour to vote for her in a deal the dup don't like- only solution .
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 18/10/18 09:04 AM

It looks now as if they are going to kick the entire process down the road. Whatever party signs off on brexit is electorally finished and May and the tories realise that.

The mother of all fudges.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 18/10/18 09:29 AM

Which party stops brexit is finished that's why labour are on the fence they both support and oppose brexit. Tories reluctantly support it. The majority of people want it. Never have politicians been more out of touch with the public. All the EU have to do is stonewall supported by treacherous British MP,s and I am sure this is organised. I don't agree with extending the transition but what we are seeing here is a politicians game it's theatre I don't know what will happen but my judgement says a deal will be done and at the last last minute it was always going to be the case.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Which party stops brexit is finished that's why labour are on the fence they both support and oppose brexit. Tories reluctantly support it. The majority of people want it. Never have politicians been more out of touch with the public. All the EU have to do is stonewall supported by treacherous British MP,s and I am sure this is organised. I don't agree with extending the transition but what we are seeing here is a politicians game it's theatre I don't know what will happen but my judgement says a deal will be done and at the last last minute it was always going to be the case.


The people know something that the majority of the politicians don't, right?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 10:57 AM

You all already agreed all this with the EU , the only reason nothing is happening is on the UK side. The Backstop was agreed, and is easy to fix, its only there till the uk can set up a frictionless trade which honours the good friday agreement . Now since the hardcore leavers say the border isn't a problem why not accept the already agreed backstop and just implement the no problem border in a matter of months. Problem solved.... no the reason they now don't want a backstop that they already agreed is because they know the good friday agreement and frictionless trade is a nightmare.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 10:59 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Which party stops brexit is finished that's why labour are on the fence they both support and oppose brexit. Tories reluctantly support it. The majority of people want it. Never have politicians been more out of touch with the public. All the EU have to do is stonewall supported by treacherous British MP,s and I am sure this is organised. I don't agree with extending the transition but what we are seeing here is a politicians game it's theatre I don't know what will happen but my judgement says a deal will be done and at the last last minute it was always going to be the case.


The people know something that the majority of the politicians don't, right?


I don't know what everyone thinks but our politicians are totally out of touch with the population and have been for a very long time
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 11:04 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
You all already agreed all this with the EU , the only reason nothing is happening is on the UK side. The Backstop was agreed, and is easy to fix, its only there till the uk can set up a frictionless trade which honours the good friday agreement . Now since the hardcore leavers say the border isn't a problem why not accept the already agreed backstop and just implement the no problem border in a matter of months. Problem solved.... no the reason they now don't want a backstop that they already agreed is because they know the good friday agreement and frictionless trade is a nightmare.


As far as I understand it Northern Ireland is a tiny rural economy of that just 4% is trade with the republic. Of that the 4% is milk, farm produce and aggregates. All regular trade that is easy to regulate customs wise by self assessment and spot checks. There is a border today for customs checks that could carry on as now and even improve with new technology. HMRC have already said they have no concerns. So what on earth is the problem ?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 11:07 AM

Exactly , so if its so easy just accept the already agreed backstop, u can prove it is easy in a month and the backstop ends...easy peasy
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 11:23 AM

Right wing Tory Brexit MP's plan to block a police requested ban on rifles they fear terrorists could use, just to undermine May.. Nice folk , really care about the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...ered-rifles-ban
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 01:02 PM

No answer to my question shaggy could not answer it in the past I was hoping emp would make a better attempt. Emp has some grasp of facts so we can assume I had a good point. It's a fact the trade from Northern Ireland to the republic is microscopic in relation to overall trade UK/EU yet the EU have managed to make it the prime issue and tied Britain in knots. Great negotiating tactic by the EU and it looks like May is going to agree to an extension we they can talk about this non problem some more and it will cost Britain another £10 billion.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 01:05 PM

Here's another question which I am sure no answer will come. If we are to have a hard border who will build it and operate it ? Britain and Ireland have pledged to do neither. So the only body that will is presumably the EU ? As the conservative MP asked in the commons yesterday. Just how will the EU achieve that ? Are they going to send an EU army to fight the British and Irish armies defeat them build a wall and then withdraw? Looking forward to you not answering
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 02:22 PM

Its you who is not answering, its the UK who have already agreed a backstop..the backstop ends as soon as frictionless no border is achieved. So just do that..problem solved.

There is no point arguing that you don't need a backstop now,cause you already agreed one. You say its a non issue so just go ahead and prove it, all the backstop does is protect the good friday agreement ,which bty you signed up to honour too. Backstop already agreed, Good Friday Agreement already successfully implemented ..backstop ends as soon as the easy border solutions are in place. off u go.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Its you who is not answering, its the UK who have already agreed a backstop..the backstop ends as soon as frictionless no border is achieved. So just do that..problem solved.

There is no point arguing that you don't need a backstop now,cause you already agreed one. You say its a non issue so just go ahead and prove it, all the backstop does is protect the good friday agreement ,which bty you signed up to honour too. Backstop already agreed, Good Friday Agreement already successfully implemented ..backstop ends as soon as the easy border solutions are in place. off u go.


Self assessment and spot audits frictionless border solved. That would be more than adequate for the small amount of rural trade in other words what happens now. There is a customs border now you know. Complete none issue
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 03:21 PM

If it is such a non issue why did Arlene Foster propose breaking the good friday agreement? It is a massive issue, which is why brexit is getting nowhere.. again if it is such a non issue then the backstop which you already agreed will only last weeks.. its only there to ensure what u say is easy is implemented . So off u go, agreed already
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
If it is such a non issue why did Arlene Foster propose breaking the good friday agreement? It is a massive issue, which is why brexit is getting nowhere.. again if it is such a non issue then the backstop which you already agreed will only last weeks.. its only there to ensure what u say is easy is implemented . So off u go, agreed already


I don't know maybe there is something I am missing but I have asked our Irish correspondents on here and all I get back is we don't want a hard border / good Friday agreement / we don't want to fight again blah blah blah

Look at basics there are only two options hard or soft border. Hard border is out so soft border it is. We are arguing about what kind of soft border. I bet you after all this nonesense we end up with a soft border pretty much the same soft border as now. Unless there is some great problem I can't see in which case what on Earth is it ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
If it is such a non issue why did Arlene Foster propose breaking the good friday agreement? It is a massive issue, which is why brexit is getting nowhere.. again if it is such a non issue then the backstop which you already agreed will only last weeks.. its only there to ensure what u say is easy is implemented . So off u go, agreed already


I don't know maybe there is something I am missing but I have asked our Irish correspondents on here and all I get back is we don't want a hard border / good Friday agreement / we don't want to fight again blah blah blah

Look at basics there are only two options hard or soft border. Hard border is out so soft border it is. We are arguing about what kind of soft border. I bet you after all this nonesense we end up with a soft border pretty much the same soft border as now. Unless there is some great problem I can't see in which case what on Earth is it ?


You have been given an answer. You don't like it so you decide it is irrelevant.

There is currently no border. If you leave without a deal you will have to have a border under WTO rules. Hence the necessity for a backstop.

Even May has now accepted that the backstop cannot be time limited. If she wasn't beholding to the DUP you would already have a deal with a backstop in place.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 19/10/18 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
You all already agreed all this with the EU , the only reason nothing is happening is on the UK side. The Backstop was agreed, and is easy to fix, its only there till the uk can set up a frictionless trade which honours the good friday agreement . Now since the hardcore leavers say the border isn't a problem why not accept the already agreed backstop and just implement the no problem border in a matter of months. Problem solved.... no the reason they now don't want a backstop that they already agreed is because they know the good friday agreement and frictionless trade is a nightmare.


As far as I understand it Northern Ireland is a tiny rural economy of that just 4% is trade with the republic. Of that the 4% is milk, farm produce and aggregates. All regular trade that is easy to regulate customs wise by self assessment and spot checks. There is a border today for customs checks that could carry on as now and even improve with new technology. HMRC have already said they have no concerns. So what on earth is the problem ?


The border doesn't have anything to do with trade between NI and ROI but potential smuggling between UK an EU. Let me explain. Let say the EU has a 15% tariff on goods from China and UK ends up negotiating a tariff free deal with China. What traders/smugglers could do is to import Chinese goods to the UK and then move them to the EU through Ireland as there won't be a border.

So, the same goods imported directly into the EU from China would cost 15% more than what has been smuggled from the UK through Ireland. This is why if UK wants frictionless trade, there is a need to align with EU customs rule, what is called the customs union.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 08:50 AM

But this is a non issue to the hardliners lol.. the hardliners that want to destroy british manufacturing and farming industuries by flooding the uk with cheap low regulated food stuffs.. choas capitalism they want to bring, will change the uk forever and not for the better.. if i was a uk citizen one thing i would be sick to allow is a non deal brexit.."meltdown" as boris said.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 10:18 AM

u people need to fight back against this tiny clique..the trumps,farages ,putin type circles.. they will invade u with crap food, flood u with fake news and data mining crap, attack ur journo;s and make a fortune on the stock market for themselves.. stand up for reason don't be bullied into crashing ur society for these scum
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 10:21 AM

Your closest allies will be them thinking its ok to use chemical weapons in the uk.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 01:32 PM

Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 02:35 PM

[quote=Stanley Park]Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with. [/quot

Oh dear

I live 1.8 miles from the border. I have been over and back three times since yesterday afternoon and strangely enough I missed it. But you will know better than me from over there in Liverpool.

You do realise that currently both the UK and Ireland are part of the EU.

There is no physical border and there hasn't been for 20 years. If you leave without a deal you will have to have create a physical border to operate under WTO rules. Once you leave the EU (looking less and less likely) you will have to negotiate a backdrop Agreement to prevent a hard border.

Pretending the Irish border is a non issue doesn't make it go away. I'm amazed that negotiators on both sides haven't run with with your fanciful solution by now. It may have something' to do with the fact that it's complete nonsense.

Do keep ignoring the facts but it won't change them.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with.


There can be a border but movement of both goods and people is frictionless because UK is in the EU, don't know what you are implying.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with.


There can be a border but movement of both goods and people is frictionless because UK is in the EU, don't know what you are implying.


There are still different tax rates and different currencies between the north and the south therefore there has to be regulation of some sort at the moment. There is no reason I can see why that cant continue partcularly given there is hardly any volume of trade that passes through it. And shaggy just because you live 1.8 miles from somewhere does not make you an authority. For a short time in London I had a flat quarter of a mile from the bank of england it did not make me a international banking expert. Still waiting for a coherant point from you I reckon I will be waiting a very long time
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with.


There can be a border but movement of both goods and people is frictionless because UK is in the EU, don't know what you are implying.


There are still different tax rates and different currencies between the north and the south therefore there has to be regulation of some sort at the moment. There is no reason I can see why that cant continue partcularly given there is hardly any volume of trade that passes through it. And shaggy just because you live 1.8 miles from somewhere does not make you an authority. For a short time in London I had a flat quarter of a mile from the bank of england it did not make me a international banking expert. Still waiting for a coherant point from you I reckon I will be waiting a very long time


I repeat, if you are in the EU there is no barrier for goods and people, that is free movement. You don't need a physical barrier for taxes and currency but you need them if you have different tariffs on goods. I don't know what you are talking about.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 06:38 PM

A border does not have to be checkpoint and stopping and searching lorries and cars. It can be done via self assessment and audits. That could comply with WTO rules that is what I cant grasp WTO as I understand it only demands you must demonstate they dont precribe how. Most (All) of the goods coming into the UK from overseas outside the EU (light years more volume than the tiny amount between Ireland and Ulster) operate on that basis. Its hard for me to understand why this cant be done here there is something I am missing
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Wrong shaggy there is a border between southern and Northern Ireland it may not be physical but it exists. Both countries have different tax laws and different currencies. There is a customs border which the tax authorities on both sides police. The fact you are unaware of that is no surprise to me. There is no way a hard border will ever be installed all we are talking about is amending existing soft border arrangement or even leaving them as they are. To me that is a simple task and once all this nonsense has finished and the EU screws an extra x billion out of Britain to drag it out that what we will end up with.


There can be a border but movement of both goods and people is frictionless because UK is in the EU, don't know what you are implying.


There are still different tax rates and different currencies between the north and the south therefore there has to be regulation of some sort at the moment. There is no reason I can see why that cant continue partcularly given there is hardly any volume of trade that passes through it. And shaggy just because you live 1.8 miles from somewhere does not make you an authority. For a short time in London I had a flat quarter of a mile from the bank of england it did not make me a international banking expert. Still waiting for a coherant point from you I reckon I will be waiting a very long time


Obviously you know better than everyone else. I'm amazed you are leading the British negotiating team. You would have solved the Irish border 18 months ago.

Again no mention of the damage that will be done to the Good Friday Agreement by the imposition of a hard border. That's the internationally recognised peace agreement that ended the troubles

No answer as to how you will prevent a hard border if you crash out under WTO rules.

No suggestion as to how you will avoid a hard border once you leave the EU and become a 3rd country.

All you have left is name calling, no answers, just name calling.

Thankfully Ireland no longer dances to England's tune. You created this mess and it is up to you to come up with a workable, acceptable solution.

Though it is beginning to look as though Brexit will never be implemented.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:06 PM

Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


The EU and the WTO both deem a border necessary. You don't, so there won't be one. That's literally the height of your argument.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


Tax rates depend on where your company is registered, there are no physical borders to pay taxes. You keep on talking crap, you are losing your mind
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


The EU and the WTO both deem a border necessary. You don't, so there won't be one. That's literally the height of your argument.



No they dont not a hard border anyway. There is a border now by the way I know border guards dont stop you when you drive your car but there is a soft border. I dont see why similar cant be employed post brexit whatever the deal. I may be wrong but hopefully someone brighter than you can explain it to me
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


Tax rates depend on where your company is registered, there are no physical borders to pay taxes. You keep on talking crap, you are losing your mind


Taxation is not just on companies and I am assuming we are talking about companies registered in the UK and Ireland not panama
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


Tax rates depend on where your company is registered, there are no physical borders to pay taxes. You keep on talking crap, you are losing your mind


Taxation is not just on companies and I am assuming we are talking about companies registered in the UK and Ireland not panama


So? What's your point?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 20/10/18 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Well I am assuming no hard border and all my posts have articulated no hard border so why Shaggy is ranting about a hard border is anyones guess. But I have long since given up in that quarter. I accept Irish people dont want stops and checking at the border. But that is not necessary there is a border now the EU does not have harmonisation of tax laws. Different tax rates apply between UK and Ireland. There are also different currencies to deal with. I can understand the need for checks if we were talking about vast complex trade. But we are talking about milk vegatables and agregates on a small scale. I cannot believe that cant be achieved without the need for hard border. However I may be wrong Vish / Emp please advise. Shaggy please feel free to vent and with the subject going entirely over your head.


The EU and the WTO both deem a border necessary. You don't, so there won't be one. That's literally the height of your argument.



No they dont not a hard border anyway. There is a border now by the way I know border guards dont stop you when you drive your car but there is a soft border. I dont see why similar cant be employed post brexit whatever the deal. I may be wrong but hopefully someone brighter than you can explain it to me


Someone brighter than me wouldn't waste his time trying to explain it to you.

Luckily for you I am patient.

There is a border in name only there are no checkpoints or customs posts and we can drive over and back as freely and as often as we like. That is exactly the same as it is between any other neighbouring EU member states. When you leave the EU you will no longer be a member state. Do you see it now?

What you want and what you will have to put in place are two entirely different things once you leave. Things will no longer be the same as they are now so the same rules will not apply. Still keeping up?

Ireland and the EU have been aware of that from the start of the Brexit negotiations. Hence their request for a backstop. Please tell me I haven't lost you again.

Member of EU - NO BORDER
Leave EU - BORDER
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 08:48 AM

Backstop which they already agreed to and now no cause May decided to run an election saying "strong and stable" a thousand times. The backstop is only there till stans easy solution is implemented , now in the interest of everybody isn't it easier to accept the already agreed backstop , prove the border issue is so easy and then end the backstop . seems sensible and is what u already signed up to , so why the urgent need to not have the backstop which u already agreed to.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 10:57 AM

The reason why is because the hardline cowards want a full crash out but are too cowardly to attempt to lead it cause they know it will crush you..meanwhile they are moving their business into the eu , but avoiding the EU's new tax haven rules coming into force soon.. The people of the uk will be left with no industries to work in and eating crap food from the US , whom bty are dictating ur WTO entry.. FREEDOM!
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 02:54 PM

I dont live in Ireland but I am told those in the republic who live near the border with the NI routinely drive over to fill their cars up and get their weekly big shop. Why ? Because its cheaper a lot cheaper I understand. Thats great but there is a loser here an thats the republics economy and exchequer. There is a border now you cant see it but its there and it has customs checks albeit light touch. From what I have read the tax authorities in the republic check only 1% of goods. I get it if the republic and NI were complex huge manufacturing ecomomies. But we are talking here about a few deliveries of milk and carrots and individuals driving over the border to save a few euros. I am struggling to understand how that could not be controlled via mechanisms pretty much as now. Whatever deal we end up with. Its simply being used as a bargaining chip by the EU. If I am wrong please explain how ?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dont live in Ireland but I am told those in the republic who live near the border with the NI routinely drive over to fill their cars up and get their weekly big shop. Why ? Because its cheaper a lot cheaper I understand. Thats great but there is a loser here an thats the republics economy and exchequer. There is a border now you cant see it but its there and it has customs checks albeit light touch. From what I have read the tax authorities in the republic check only 1% of goods. I get it if the republic and NI were complex huge manufacturing ecomomies. But we are talking here about a few deliveries of milk and carrots and individuals driving over the border to save a few euros. I am struggling to understand how that could not be controlled via mechanisms pretty much as now. Whatever deal we end up with. Its simply being used as a bargaining chip by the EU. If I am wrong please explain how ?


I've already explained in this thread, but you don't seem to understand. The border is not for goods between NI and ROI but what UK will import from the world (apparently) on tariffs which are different from the EU. The EU wants to protect its market from possible dumping, for example, from China. Do you get it? You keep repeating the same crap over and over again without reading answers.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dont live in Ireland but I am told those in the republic who live near the border with the NI routinely drive over to fill their cars up and get their weekly big shop. Why ? Because its cheaper a lot cheaper I understand. Thats great but there is a loser here an thats the republics economy and exchequer. There is a border now you cant see it but its there and it has customs checks albeit light touch. From what I have read the tax authorities in the republic check only 1% of goods. I get it if the republic and NI were complex huge manufacturing ecomomies. But we are talking here about a few deliveries of milk and carrots and individuals driving over the border to save a few euros. I am struggling to understand how that could not be controlled via mechanisms pretty much as now. Whatever deal we end up with. Its simply being used as a bargaining chip by the EU. If I am wrong please explain how ?


Wrong again: 30,000 people cross the border every day, most of them to work. That's a lot of big shops.

Wrong again: people from the north travel into the Republic for our fuel as it's cheaper there. But I must say it's wonderful to see that you are now concerned about the Republic's economy.

All your latest post shows is that you really have no idea what goes on at the border. Unfortunately that doesn't stop you telling the rest of us that it is a trivial issue that is being used by the EU to punish the U.K. Attempting to trivialise the border issue will not solve it. Britain has already agreed to create a backstop. The problem now is that Britain is trying to abdicate its responsibility in relation to that agreement.

And we haven't even touched on the damage a hard border will do to the Good Friday Agreement and the peace that we have enjoyed for the last 20 years.

This brexiteer magical thinking on the border really must stop as it is achieving absolutely nothing

https://factcheckni.org/facts/do-30000-people-cross-ireland-northern-ireland-border-daily/
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 04:26 PM

I dont live in ireland (as i said) so i dont know where is cheaper but there is plenty online that says its cheaper in the north. But if its cheaper in the republic and you live there so you must know. Fine but that does not change the point there is a soft border and there are winners and losers it is technically smuggling although the authorities are fairly chilled about it probably because the sums are so small not worth chasing the money and the politics of course. You keep banging on about the backstop etc but that is a simply a word you are not explaining why a soft border cannot continue no matter what the deal.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 04:42 PM

I do know in Ireland the price of petrol differs and it's common practice to fill up whichever side is cheaper. I would imagine both Britain and Ireland buy crude at the same spot price. So the only reason there could be a difference is duty and or vat. Which means tax wise there are winners and losers over the border ? Or have I got that wrong ? I freely admit I don't know I am just confused what the problem is ? I am assuming someone who lives there knows more than me and can explain just what is the problem ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I dont live in ireland (as i said) so i dont know where is cheaper but there is plenty online that says its cheaper in the north. But if its cheaper in the republic and you live there so you must know. Fine but that does not change the point there is a soft border and there are winners and losers it is technically smuggling although the authorities are fairly chilled about it probably because the sums are so small not worth chasing the money and the politics of course. You keep banging on about the backstop etc but that is a simply a word you are not explaining why a soft border cannot continue no matter what the deal.


What are you on about. Are you saying that people from N. Ireland who are buying fuel in the Republic are technically smuggling ? You do realise both are still members of the EU.


It is up to Britan to ensure a soft border remains just like you agreed. You refuse to accept that things will change once you leave the EU. It is amazing that Brexiteers want to take back control of all their borders apart from the one in Ireland.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 06:17 PM

It's not just up to Britain but both sides to work together particularly at this late stage. Otherwise whatever britain dreams up it will be automatically rejected by the EU. This might have been ok 12 months ago but you are in real danger of having a less than ideal arrangement that is surely the republic of Ireland's concern just as much as the UK. From what I can gather the withdrawal agreement is almost in place the only remaining issue is the border now. And I think that is being held back by the EU in order to drive home a harder bargain on other issues. But whatever the outcome once we leave I bet you there will be a soft border on self assessment and audit check exactly as I have described but before this happens this shadow boxing has to be drawn out. Both sides know the answer now
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 06:46 PM

I dont think the EU is going to shake even a little over the border issue..its for u lot to sort out.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
I dont think the EU is going to shake even a little over the border issue..its for u lot to sort out.


Huge march in London yesterday
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 07:23 PM

wonder if Johnny Mercer was there lol
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 21/10/18 07:47 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
wonder if Johnny Mercer was there lol


Johnny probably went to Harrogate. Another huge turnout grin
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 22/10/18 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
I dont think the EU is going to shake even a little over the border issue..its for u lot to sort out.


let's say I own a petrol garage just over the border. Forget which side of the border it's irrelevant to this. I pay my petrol duty, vat and other taxes to the tax authorities in that country be that republic or U.K. I complete self assessment tax return for my business. If I am subject to compliance review over my return and I am found to be buying supplies over the border at favourable tax rates to me and avoiding tax in the country I am domiciled then the authorities are going to feel my collar and fine me. Is that what happens now between the republic and the UK or have I got that wrong?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 22/10/18 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
I dont think the EU is going to shake even a little over the border issue..its for u lot to sort out.


let's say I own a petrol garage just over the border. Forget which side of the border it's irrelevant to this. I pay my petrol duty, vat and other taxes to the tax authorities in that country be that republic or U.K. I complete self assessment tax return for my business. If I am subject to compliance review over my return and I am found to be buying supplies over the border at favourable tax rates to me and avoiding tax in the country I am domiciled then the authorities are going to feel my collar and fine me. Is that what happens now between the republic and the UK or have I got that wrong?


I there a law that says that you have to buy petrol in only the country you are domiciled?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 22/10/18 05:26 PM

No you can buy petrol wherever you want as a customer but businesses have to account for transactions in the country they are domiciled
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:20 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No you can buy petrol wherever you want as a customer but businesses have to account for transactions in the country they are domiciled


So what are you talking about in your previous posts? As I mentioned before, for income tax purposes there is no physical border, however, for goods with different tariffs you do need physical borders.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
No you can buy petrol wherever you want as a customer but businesses have to account for transactions in the country they are domiciled


So what are you talking about in your previous posts? As I mentioned before, for income tax purposes there is no physical border, however, for goods with different tariffs you do need physical borders.


Ireland and the UK have different tax rates and entirely different tax authorities for things like duty and vat and other taxes and regulations. This is the case now and there is no physical border. Britain and Republic of Ireland are separate countries entirely they also have different currencies.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 11:25 AM

And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


Jaysus I was wondering where you were going with this one.

Quick get your plan off to the British and EU Negotiators and they will have an agreement by lunchtime. How did they not see this ages ago.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


Jaysus I was wondering where you were going with this one.

Quick get your plan off to the British and EU Negotiators and they will have an agreement by lunchtime. How did they not see this ages ago.


I am pretty sure they see it now it's not my suggestion the British suggested it 12 months ago the EU rejected it I never understood why and still don't. At the time I asked for your view that was my mistake as I now know you are incapable of anything more complex than slogans you have probably picked up in the daily mirror. My guess is the British proposal will be accepted but after the EU has adjusted it so they can claim it's their idea as well and when the EU has used it to screw the maximum out of Britain for that's all the Irish border is a lever for the EU and they are exploiting the politically sensitive aspect for their own ends
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


Jaysus I was wondering where you were going with this one.

Quick get your plan off to the British and EU Negotiators and they will have an agreement by lunchtime. How did they not see this ages ago.


I am pretty sure they see it now it's not my suggestion the British suggested it 12 months ago the EU rejected it I never understood why and still don't. At the time I asked for your view that was my mistake as I now know you are incapable of anything more complex than slogans you have probably picked up in the daily mirror. My guess is the British proposal will be accepted but after the EU has adjusted it so they can claim it's their idea as well and when the EU has used it to screw the maximum out of Britain for that's all the Irish border is a lever for the EU and they are exploiting the politically sensitive aspect for their own ends


So you are suggesting an idea that has already been rejected by the EU and putting it forward as the solution to the border issue. Do you see a potential problem?

The solution is quite simple. Britain agreed to an Irish backstop. All they have to do is fulfill their obligations then there won't be a border issue.

Good luck selling that to the DUP and JRM &Co.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


And how would you deal with let's say Chinese goods which will have different tariffs in UK and EU?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


And how would you deal with let's say Chinese goods which will have different tariffs in UK and EU?


I dont know. I might know if I was running the negotiations. However it does not seem impossible to solve although I think plenty of remainers are clinging to the hope the irish border cant be solved with 95% of the deal complete TM says 95% the EU 90% but sounds like we are getting there. What an earth are you and the remoaners (not remainers) going to do if they solve the border issue? Which I am absolutely certain they will. And Shaggy please try please ! yes the EU has rejected the proposal but what happens is both sides will amend and ajust and repackage give it a new name (say the facilitation option) and bingo a deal is done. Thats the way these complex political disputes work both sides have to be seen to win. And Vish not sure any chinese goods go to Ireland not sure they have the ports in Ulster maybe dublin does but almost all chinese goods come in via the deep water ports on the english south coast and brought to ireland via lorry or train so the customs can be handled by software and bar code in those ports
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 05:52 PM

Considering the country will be poorer off post brexit,who really wins Stan?
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And as far as trade tariffs go all the EU and UK need to do is not impose them between Northern Ireland and the republic the trade is microscopic anyway. Problem solved


And how would you deal with let's say Chinese goods which will have different tariffs in UK and EU?


I dont know. I might know if I was running the negotiations. However it does not seem impossible to solve although I think plenty of remainers are clinging to the hope the irish border cant be solved with 95% of the deal complete TM says 95% the EU 90% but sounds like we are getting there. What an earth are you and the remoaners (not remainers) going to do if they solve the border issue? Which I am absolutely certain they will. And Shaggy please try please ! yes the EU has rejected the proposal but what happens is both sides will amend and ajust and repackage give it a new name (say the facilitation option) and bingo a deal is done. Thats the way these complex political disputes work both sides have to be seen to win. And Vish not sure any chinese goods go to Ireland not sure they have the ports in Ulster maybe dublin does but almost all chinese goods come in via the deep water ports on the english south coast and brought to ireland via lorry or train so the customs can be handled by software and bar code in those ports


So, according to what you wrote, a container with Chinese goods will dock in UK and will be transported to Ireland by road, but then who collects the duty and where? Let's say as you say, barcodes and software solve this, then how do you distinguish a product in a container which is consigned to ROI and the same product in a container consigned to NI? You can't as it will be the same product, however, the duties will be different as trade deals will be negotiated separately. Still with me? As the duties would be different so would the landed costs, right? Let's say duties in UK, the new tax haven, are lower than in ROI, then if there is no border, those goods from UK will be smuggled to ROI to be sold there, or anywhere else in EU. Do you get it now? To solve this, you need to remain in the customs union as I said before and which Labour is saying now.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:12 PM

From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:17 PM

Vish I think your example part NI container part Republic is a bit far fetched I can't see that being a major event almost all goods to Northern Ireland come via mainland Britain. There may be part containers but it's very small beer and in any case the split container can be bar coded and allocated via software just as if it was a full container we are in 2018. Also not every container is checked they are sample checked and remember Northern Ireland is a small rural economy as is the republic we are not talking say Britain vs Germany then I could see your point
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish I think your example part NI container part Republic is a bit far fetched I can't see that being a major event almost all goods to Northern Ireland come via mainland Britain. There may be part containers but it's very small beer and in any case the split container can be bar coded and allocated via software just as if it was a full container we are in 2018. Also not every container is checked they are sample checked and remember Northern Ireland is a small rural economy as is the republic we are not talking say Britain vs Germany then I could see your point


The Republic is a small rural economy.

That would be the same Republic with the fastest growing economy in Europe. An economy driven primarily by the activities of multi national companies who operate there.

Will you ever stop making things up just to suit your argument. It is embarrassing
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:47 PM

He's worse than comical Ali.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish I think your example part NI container part Republic is a bit far fetched I can't see that being a major event almost all goods to Northern Ireland come via mainland Britain. There may be part containers but it's very small beer and in any case the split container can be bar coded and allocated via software just as if it was a full container we are in 2018. Also not every container is checked they are sample checked and remember Northern Ireland is a small rural economy as is the republic we are not talking say Britain vs Germany then I could see your point


The Republic is a small rural economy.

That would be the same Republic with the fastest growing economy in Europe. An economy driven primarily by the activities of multi national companies who operate there.

Will you ever stop making things up just to suit your argument. It is embarrassing



Fastest growing economy in Europe is not really saying much is it ? The only economy growing less than the EU is Antarctica. But I take your word for it. However fastest is not the same as biggest small things are easy to grow fast by the maths. But yes agreed its more than a small rural economy but it's not a big economy is it ? And I understand it supplies only 4% of Northern Ireland's trade which is peanuts
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Considering the country will be poorer off post brexit,who really wins Stan?


How do you know that?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:19 PM

The other thing about the Irish economy is a few years ago it was booming then it collapsed the EU declined to bail it out it was left to the great Satan Britain to save their economy. So if there is fast growth it's probably due to recovering. But to repeat only 4% of trade is supplied by the republic to Northern Ireland so what the EU are concerned about god knows
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
Considering the country will be poorer off post brexit,who really wins Stan?


How do you know that?

I've done the maths.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The other thing about the Irish economy is a few years ago it was booming then it collapsed the EU declined to bail it out it was left to the great Satan Britain to save their economy. So if there is fast growth it's probably due to recovering. But to repeat only 4% of trade is supplied by the republic to Northern Ireland so what the EU are concerned about god knows


Oh dear
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The other thing about the Irish economy is a few years ago it was booming then it collapsed the EU declined to bail it out it was left to the great Satan Britain to save their economy. So if there is fast growth it's probably due to recovering. But to repeat only 4% of trade is supplied by the republic to Northern Ireland so what the EU are concerned about god knows


Oh dear


The post not factually true then ?
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By lumba
Considering the country will be poorer off post brexit,who really wins Stan?


How do you know that?

I've done the maths.


No one knows what will happen in or out so why not stay positive? Nothing to be gained by being constantly negative about it.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 23/10/18 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
The other thing about the Irish economy is a few years ago it was booming then it collapsed the EU declined to bail it out it was left to the great Satan Britain to save their economy. So if there is fast growth it's probably due to recovering. But to repeat only 4% of trade is supplied by the republic to Northern Ireland so what the EU are concerned about god knows


Oh dear


The post not factually true then ?


Not factually correct doesn't even start to do it justice.

Ireland borrowed £3.2 billion from the UK.

It received approximately Ä67 billion in loans from EU/IMF

Stan you are a liar and you really are embarrassing yourself on an almost daily basis now.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 11:43 AM

Once again you are wrong. Yes the IMF and EU long term loans to Ireland as grants and financing as they do all the poorer countries in the EU they no doubt do the same with the ex soviet countries and once Albania and Macedonia join no doubt they will get long term loans. What I am talking about is the emergency in 2010 when Ireland at one point was wondering whether it could pay its police force and other key services. The EU snubbed Ireland it was left to Britain to provide an emergency loan. Britain had no obligation to do so they did because they are our near neighbours with close ties and dare I say it goodwill. You are calling me a liar out of frustration I am not always right but at least I try to understand events do research you clearly don't bother.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


What's the none issue?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Once again you are wrong. Yes the IMF and EU long term loans to Ireland as grants and financing as they do all the poorer countries in the EU they no doubt do the same with the ex soviet countries and once Albania and Macedonia join no doubt they will get long term loans. What I am talking about is the emergency in 2010 when Ireland at one point was wondering whether it could pay its police force and other key services. The EU snubbed Ireland it was left to Britain to provide an emergency loan. Britain had no obligation to do so they did because they are our near neighbours with close ties and dare I say it goodwill. You are calling me a liar out of frustration I am not always right but at least I try to understand events do research you clearly don't bother.


Oh dear.

You should try making bread again. The only person witnessing your cock ups then will be yourself.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


What's the none issue?


The Northern Ireland border issue. It was barely mentioned in the debates pre the referendum and the remain campaign threw the book at reasons why we should remain, the Northern Ireland border is now the main and only issue. Did the powerful remain campaign made up of the government and almost parliment simply forget about this massive issue ? No because it wasn't a problem then and it's not a problem today. What it is, is a lever used by the EU but assisted by British politicians who want to overturn the result. If I am wrong tell me what the problem is ? A border pretty much like the one we have today is more than adequate for the tiny amount of agricultural trade that passes over. And I bet that's what the solution will be once the EU stops the thumbscrews
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


So they won't go to the deep water port in Cork?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


What's the none issue?


The Northern Ireland border issue. It was barely mentioned in the debates pre the referendum and the remain campaign threw the book at reasons why we should remain, the Northern Ireland border is now the main and only issue. Did the powerful remain campaign made up of the government and almost parliment simply forget about this massive issue ? No because it wasn't a problem then and it's not a problem today. What it is, is a lever used by the EU but assisted by British politicians who want to overturn the result. If I am wrong tell me what the problem is ? A border pretty much like the one we have today is more than adequate for the tiny amount of agricultural trade that passes over. And I bet that's what the solution will be once the EU stops the thumbscrews


More of the same waffle. Pretending the border issue isn't a problem doesn't make it go away.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 24/10/18 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


So they won't go to the deep water port in Cork?


They might I know nothing about cork but will huge amounts of Chinese goods to Northern Ireland ? Hard to see that Northern Ireland is almost entirely supplied by mainland Britain. There may be smuggling but it will be tiny and more than capable of being dealt with by Irish customs staff remember we are taking about next to nothing is this really worth stopping a deal between the UK and the EU ? I think not it's simply the EU,s lever.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 06:37 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
From a quick Google Dublin is not a deep water freight port so I assume all Far East goods destined for Ireland (north and south) come via the big English south coast ports like Felixstowe and potentially Liverpool too given its new deep water status capable of taking the Panamax boats. So a none issue unless I am missing something ?


So they won't go to the deep water port in Cork?


They might I know nothing about cork but will huge amounts of Chinese goods to Northern Ireland ? Hard to see that Northern Ireland is almost entirely supplied by mainland Britain. There may be smuggling but it will be tiny and more than capable of being dealt with by Irish customs staff remember we are taking about next to nothing is this really worth stopping a deal between the UK and the EU ? I think not it's simply the EU,s lever.


I can see you are struggling to understand the problem and it has nothing to do with smuggling to NI. The EU wants to protect its market from deals that UK might negotiate with other countries not the other way round. Let's say UK negotiates a non tariff deal with China while the EU still maintains tariffs to let's say, prevent dumping. Then the same product will have a higher landed cost in the EU than in UK, including NI. If there are no physical customs border in Ireland, then UK importers of that product will be able to sell that product in ROI at a lower price than an importer in ROI. That would give a competitive advantage to a UK trader compared to a ROI one. If you extend this, the UK importer might even sell the product in other EU countries through ROI, though I think this would be unlikely, except for a few containers. Do you get it now?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 11:21 AM

I get your point Vish and it's good to converse with someone who has some intelligence. However although I am sure you are technically correct it does sound rather theoretical we are dealing with a contained and small market one that could easily be policed. Also if that really is the only problem I can't believe it's impossible to achieve solutions. The complexities of trade in Europe between countries that are in / out of the EU are surely infinitely more complex than that. I expect a miraculous solution within a month surprise surprise

In other significant news yesterday it looks like the plot to dethrone Theresa May has spectacularly failed. Many brexiteers want no deal and / or to get rid of Theresa May. I disagree much as I hate the chequers deal and I am very concerned over recent developments over extension and some form of customs union. Reluctantly I think chequers has the best chance of getting through parliment and getting us out in march. Whatever the deal or no deal what is critical from my perspective is we legally leave the EU in march next year now just four months away.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I get your point Vish and it's good to converse with someone who has some intelligence. However although I am sure you are technically correct it does sound rather theoretical we are dealing with a contained and small market one that could easily be policed. Also if that really is the only problem I can't believe it's impossible to achieve solutions. The complexities of trade in Europe between countries that are in / out of the EU are surely infinitely more complex than that. I expect a miraculous solution within a month surprise surprise

In other significant news yesterday it looks like the plot to dethrone Theresa May has spectacularly failed. Many brexiteers want no deal and / or to get rid of Theresa May. I disagree much as I hate the chequers deal and I am very concerned over recent developments over extension and some form of customs union. Reluctantly I think chequers has the best chance of getting through parliment and getting us out in march. Whatever the deal or no deal what is critical from my perspective is we legally leave the EU in march next year now just four months away.


So you are happy to leave with a deal that you hate.

And you talk about intelligence.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 11:48 AM

I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight


So you can't defend your own position so you try to change the subject.

It's tough being a brexiteers these days.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight


So you can't defend your own position so you try to change the subject.

It's tough being a brexiteers these days.


That's typical of your answers just one line jibes nothing of substance
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 25/10/18 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I am capable of expressing a concept using my own judgement rightly or wrongly

Sadly some are incapable of that

One thing I have learnt though in this exchange I have wondered, in the past, how rational people in modern times can be involved in sectarianism which to me seems a mindless pursuit. I now think I have more understanding of how this occurs. So shaggy thanks for that insight


So you can't defend your own position so you try to change the subject.

It's tough being a brexiteers these days.


That's typical of your answers just one line jibes nothing of substance


And still no explanation of your current position on Brexit. Granted it may change again tomorrow.

But right now you are happy to support a deal that you hate. Not a lot of substance there.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 30/10/18 01:46 PM

Shaggy I live in the real world brexit was never going to be good or bad from a brexiteers arrangement I said that from day one and have stated my red lines. My red lines are looking shakey on the customs union I agree but I can still accept chequers just at the moment. That probably has the best chance of getting an agreement with the EU and getting past parliment. But Canada plus and no deal I could live with too. I am not going to get exactly what I want I am grown up enough to accept that. But it very much looks like brexit is on track the Tory rebels seem to be withdrawing and the "have another vote brigade" are nowhere.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 01/11/18 12:41 AM

Dominic Rabb announced to the select committee this afternoon that he would be happy to appear before them on 21st November after a (Brexit) deal is finalised.

Three hours afterwards the same Dominic Rabb announced there was NO SET DATE for the negotiations to conclude.

And this man is part of the Brexit negotiating team. Come back David Davis all is forgiven.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 01/11/18 03:45 AM

Rumours circulating in irish media is that as soon as May gets her budget through she is going to offer the crash out or all uk in custom union options to parliament.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 01/11/18 12:47 PM

I have no idea what's going on but I read online and offline newspapers that are for and against brexit and I watch every BBC political programme every day. I am interested in politics rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly I should have better things to do it's all bollox. However my gut feel is we are at the end game for brexit now. As expected the negotiations have not been for the benefit of the people (politicans rarely do that) but a game a theatre. But now that theatre is running out of time so I expect both sides now to sit down and agree the deal they were always going to agree. It goes without saying it will be at the 12th hour. Then we will see the smiles and the backslapping from both sides. My expectations are more theatre from parliment but they will pass it particularly as it's now been confirmed they have no power to extend article 50 or force the government to carry on negotiating so if they vote it down they are voting for no deal however there are Tory brexiteers who want that so it could be tight. Once we have been through that then I expect things will go on pretty much as usual we still await the sky falling in the remoaners predicted after the vote. One point to note the OBR (office of budget responsibility) are predicting an increase in UK growth next year deal or no deal. You won't see that in the guardian newspaper or sky news remain promoters but that's what they are saying. The OBR tradiionally take the pessimistic view so growth might be higher still. In another world politcians would have respected the result of the referendum and all worked together to achieve the best result for the people and done it quickly. But we don't live in that world
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 01/11/18 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I have no idea what's going on but I read online and offline newspapers that are for and against brexit and I watch every BBC political programme every day. I am interested in politics rightly or wrongly, probably wrongly I should have better things to do it's all bollox. However my gut feel is we are at the end game for brexit now. As expected the negotiations have not been for the benefit of the people (politicans rarely do that) but a game a theatre. But now that theatre is running out of time so I expect both sides now to sit down and agree the deal they were always going to agree. It goes without saying it will be at the 12th hour. Then we will see the smiles and the backslapping from both sides. My expectations are more theatre from parliment but they will pass it particularly as it's now been confirmed they have no power to extend article 50 or force the government to carry on negotiating so if they vote it down they are voting for no deal however there are Tory brexiteers who want that so it could be tight. Once we have been through that then I expect things will go on pretty much as usual we still await the sky falling in the remoaners predicted after the vote. One point to note the OBR (office of budget responsibility) are predicting an increase in UK growth next year deal or no deal. You won't see that in the guardian newspaper or sky news remain promoters but that's what they are saying. The OBR tradiionally take the pessimistic view so growth might be higher still. In another world politcians would have respected the result of the referendum and all worked together to achieve the best result for the people and done it quickly. But we don't live in that world


https://www.ft.com/content/e0ae58a6-cf95-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6

Not sure where you got your OBR info Stan, but this paints an entirely different picture.

After Brexit even with an agreement everything will have changed utterly. If the Tory brexiteers scupper a deal, triggering a No Deal Brexit then the "fun" will really begin.

Still no progress on the border issue either, even at this late stage. That of course will all change once we reach squeaky bum time. But I would imagine more British concessions are on the way once the budget is passed.

Interesting times.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 02/11/18 07:35 AM

its gonna be that in but not in thing, perfect for ireland..move on
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 02/11/18 11:24 AM

Shaggy the financial times is very pro remain I got the OBR information from the chancellors budget this week which I watched all the way through. The OBR is meant to be an indepenant body that the treasury follows it was set up to stop chancellors setting budgets on guesses for political reasons. The OBR tends to be cautious so actual growth will likely be higher.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 02/11/18 05:47 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5hWQ0T10v6Y

Project Fear
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 02/11/18 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog


The best thing that could happen to UK is no deal, only then the brexiters will understand for real. EU has said UK can join again if they wished to. That's the only way IMO to reunite such a divided country.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 02/11/18 08:49 PM

Iím sure those who voted leave would be happy to join again. Weíd all be holding hands and skipping down the road with joy if that happened.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 03/11/18 04:55 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Iím sure those who voted leave would be happy to join again. Weíd all be holding hands and skipping down the road with joy if that happened.


Well, it will all depend how things pan out. If the UK becomes Great again, then remainers will be happy as well, who wouldn't like to be great? If shyte hits the fan, then even leavers would agree to join in, definitely not everybody because some old farts will probably continue to wish the empire strikes back, but the majority, especially the young who didn't or couldn't vote would like to re-enter. Otherwise nobody will be happy as it would be a compromise, neither in neither out.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 03/11/18 11:16 PM

seems to be some actual work done towards the fact the result was actually illegal.. aaron banks under serious pressure , think massive influence of russia on the leave side will cast a major doubt on anything may offers up, might even cancel the result..which it should as they broke the law to win..duh
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 03/11/18 11:21 PM

It wonít change a thing.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 05:28 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
It wonít change a thing.


It would depend how a no deal goes, do you think Brexiters will be happy if Brexit hit their pockets hard?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 07:21 AM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
It wonít change a thing.


The fact the you are probably right is completely shocking.. enemy foreign influence and cheating doesn't change a thing in democracies these days.

Putin must be laughing
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
It wonít change a thing.


The fact the you are probably right is completely shocking.. enemy foreign influence and cheating doesn't change a thing in democracies these days.

Putin must be laughing


It would have to be proved beyond any doubt what so ever and that wonít be possible.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 12:10 PM

Aaron banks only has accusations against him although emp never bothers with niceties such as evidence courts etc he is guilty according to the self appointed string vest emperor of right and wrong. But even if our hero is right and Aaron banks is guilty of illegal funding Aaron banks was only part of an independent leave group not part of the official leave campaign group.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 08:43 PM

yeah and they cheated too, as did the tories when cameron got re-elected.. cheating doesn't seem to matter though .


It was the electoral committee that said so not me too...the committee set up to protect ur democracy from outside influence..they said they broke the law...illegal
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
yeah and they cheated too, as did the tories when cameron got re-elected.. cheating doesn't seem to matter though .


It was the electoral committee that said so not me too...the committee set up to protect ur democracy from outside influence..they said they broke the law...illegal


So letís say the vote is scrapped. What then? Another vote as those 52% who voted leave will not be happy. What if itís to leave again? Will you still bang on about how someone broke the rules?

The vote is done. Weíre leaving. Get over it and get on with your life which isnít even in this country.

From a remain voter.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:13 PM

The vote is done illegally, get over it, you mean.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:18 PM

Any proof of guilt? Any conviction yet?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:22 PM

Banks can't talk in circles to policemen ..it will come , probably after you leave tho, sensible lol
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:25 PM

I wouldn't get too annoyed emp. It's looking more and more like Brexit in Name Only.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:27 PM

yeah customs union but not allowed call it customs union
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
yeah customs union but not allowed call it customs union


"A customs union, not the customs union."

Peter Bone isn't happy.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ian-payne/peter-bone-theresa-may-deal-brexit-name-only/
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:41 PM

I kinda don't even want to comment on it, just let it happen.. the hardliners rage just has to be ignored.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 04/11/18 09:47 PM

The whole thing has been pointless but just needs finishing now. Iím sick of it and want it done so we can all get on with our lives again.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 05/11/18 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
The whole thing has been pointless but just needs finishing now. Iím sick of it and want it done so we can all get on with our lives again.


I would say that's the opinion of 99% of British people leavers and remainers. Look at the recent conferences of both labour and the Tories who represent 90% of British voters. Brexit was barely mentioned at either. Why ? Because the focus groups have advised both parties the British people are more interested in other things now. My expectations are before November is out a brexit deal will be announced with the EU there may be parts I don't like then I am simply going to have to accept it.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 05:42 PM

........... and the can is given another kick down the road.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
........... and the can is given another kick down the road.


Really you know something we dont ? it will be a first for you if true
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
........... and the can is given another kick down the road.


Really you know something we dont ? it will be a first for you if true


Only insults left now Stan. I was going to read the brexiteers plan for Britain after Brexit but I couldn't find it.

You haven't seen it anywhere?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 08:58 PM

As I have said many times the government implements the will of the people not brexiteers whoever they are. I seem to recall telling you this before but as we know things dont appear to sink in. There is talk of a deal by the end of november more and more in the political press. Lets see what happens
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
As I have said many times the government implements the will of the people not brexiteers whoever they are. I seem to recall telling you this before but as we know things dont appear to sink in. There is talk of a deal by the end of november more and more in the political press. Lets see what happens


Implementing the will of the people. Haha, very good Stan. Remember when Brexit means Brexit was all the rage. That seems a very long time ago now.

You have been unable to provide a brexiteer plan, because it has never existed. Those who masterminded Britain's exit from the EU unfortunately didn't think to come up with an alternative once they had secured their victory. However you will have a shiny new passport to distract you.

As I have said previously there will be a deal but only after more concessions from Britain. We have seen that again today.

Customs union anyone?
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 09:52 PM

shaggy you seem to think who won the EU referedum became the government. They didn't the conservative government (Many on whom voted remain the conservative government campaigned on remain). But they are tasked with implementing it that's our constitution. I said at the beginning there would be a deal I also said there would have to be compromises I can't predict the future but we are weeks away from seeing if I am right or wrong. My personal preference would be no deal but I don't think that will come to pass. It's a great shame shaggy you are not able to contribute more
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 10:00 PM

There is talk in the press of a decisive announcement this Thursday followed by a three week government sell to the public let's see if that's true. Probably no surprise if it's a soft brexit but we have to look at the detail. We await events
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
shaggy you seem to think who won the EU referedum became the government. They didn't the conservative government (Many on whom voted remain the conservative government campaigned on remain). But they are tasked with implementing it that's our constitution. I said at the beginning there would be a deal I also said there would have to be compromises I can't predict the future but we are weeks away from seeing if I am right or wrong. My personal preference would be no deal but I don't think that will come to pass. It's a great shame shaggy you are not able to contribute more


The best you can contribute is that you would prefer no deal.

Very constructive.

Obviously that's not going to happen thankfully as the government is finally accepting the reality of the situation.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 10:34 PM

And shaggy what exactly do you contribute ? At least I can articulate an opinion based on my own judgement rightly or wrongly
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 06/11/18 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And shaggy what exactly do you contribute ? At least I can articulate an opinion based on my own judgement rightly or wrongly


Your opinion is based on what you read in the Mail and the Express. You have offered no alternative to replace EU membership and your views on Ireland and the Irish are frankly racist.

No sane person would be asking for a No Deal Brexit knowing what they know now.

All Ireland wants is for Britain to honour the commitment they gave last December to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And shaggy what exactly do you contribute ? At least I can articulate an opinion based on my own judgement rightly or wrongly


Your opinion is based on what you read in the Mail and the Express. You have offered no alternative to replace EU membership and your views on Ireland and the Irish are frankly racist.

No sane person would be asking for a No Deal Brexit knowing what they know now.

All Ireland wants is for Britain to honour the commitment they gave last December to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.



I don't know why anybody would want a no deal, what would they gain by this.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And shaggy what exactly do you contribute ? At least I can articulate an opinion based on my own judgement rightly or wrongly


Your opinion is based on what you read in the Mail and the Express. You have offered no alternative to replace EU membership and your views on Ireland and the Irish are frankly racist.

No sane person would be asking for a No Deal Brexit knowing what they know now.

All Ireland wants is for Britain to honour the commitment they gave last December to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.



I don't take lectures on racism from a supporter of the IRA and the segtarianism. I don't need to offer an alternative to EU membership I am simply one of 46.5 million voters who had the choice of leaving or staying in the EU i chose to leave as did the majority of voters. I don't need to justify that to anyone least of all you. However I do have views on how we will be better off. However I have described on countless times how over two years ago now I am not going to repeat them yet again particularly as you have conrehensively demonstrated you are incapable of understanding anything other than a binary good or bad. At the height of the troubles I often wondered why people could be so mindlessly stupid you have provided insight into that
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
And shaggy what exactly do you contribute ? At least I can articulate an opinion based on my own judgement rightly or wrongly


Your opinion is based on what you read in the Mail and the Express. You have offered no alternative to replace EU membership and your views on Ireland and the Irish are frankly racist.

No sane person would be asking for a No Deal Brexit knowing what they know now.

All Ireland wants is for Britain to honour the commitment they gave last December to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.



I don't take lectures on racism from a supporter of the IRA and the segtarianism. I don't need to offer an alternative to EU membership I am simply one of 46.5 million voters who had the choice of leaving or staying in the EU i chose to leave as did the majority of voters. I don't need to justify that to anyone least of all you. However I do have views on how we will be better off. However I have described on countless times how over two years ago now I am not going to repeat them yet again particularly as you have conrehensively demonstrated you are incapable of understanding anything other than a binary good or bad. At the height of the troubles I often wondered why people could be so mindlessly stupid you have provided insight into that


And the usual name calling when you are stumped for an answer.

You have moved so far on brexit that your next position will be remain.

First it was no CU, no ECJ no SM
Then it was the Chequers Plan which puts you in direct opposition with leading brexiteers JRM, BoJo and Davis Davis and includes a CU
And now this week it is a No Deal brexit.

You are the very definition of the nonsense that is Brexit. It is impossible to negotiate with someone who doesn't know what he wants himself.

Just to amuse me do please list how the UK will be better off with a No deal Brexit.
You couldn't have listed these previously as you have only moved to this position recently.

Also why do you brexiteers seem to be constantly very angry these days?
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 05:45 PM

This thread is a pile of shittt..

Carry on.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
This thread is a pile of shittt..

Carry on.


On yer bike
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 06:15 PM

Some leftie stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFtLONl4cNc
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By lumba


Commie boy
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 08:27 PM

Shaggy I am I guess older than you I remember the troubles not just in Ireland but over in England too. I have also met a few Irish republicans face to face on more than one occasion. Derry is a hotbed of Irish republicanism. I Know the language and can smell one a mile off. You gave yourself away some time ago when you said you abhor all violence while not criticising the IRA directly. That's the language of the IRA and that's what they used to say when accepting responsibility for killing civilians. People maimed, killed and bodies spread all over the road the IRA used to say the responsibility for the deaths is with the British government and they abhor violence. We are killing them because they are killing us. Every murderer in history from Hitler to Stalin has used that justification. It's pretty obvious while you may or may not be a direct IRA sympathiser you are from and close to that background. Don't try and deny it people can tell a mile off
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 08:43 PM

That's all a bit twisted Stan.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy I am I guess older than you I remember the troubles not just in Ireland but over in England too. I have also met a few Irish republicans face to face on more than one occasion. Derry is a hotbed of Irish republicanism. I Know the language and can smell one a mile off. You gave yourself away some time ago when you said you abhor all violence while not criticising the IRA directly. That's the language of the IRA and that's what they used to say when accepting responsibility for killing civilians. People maimed, killed and bodies spread all over the road the IRA used to say the responsibility for the deaths is with the British government and they abhor violence. We are killing them because they are killing us. Every murderer in history from Hitler to Stalin has used that justification. It's pretty obvious while you may or may not be a direct IRA sympathiser you are from and close to that background. Don't try and deny it people can tell a mile off


Oh dear, you are a grumpy brexiteer (sort of) these days.

Get all that hatred out Stan.

Can we talk about your plan for the country after you get your No Deal Brexit

PS You left Churchill out of your list of murderers.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 09:47 PM

I have told you my plan many times before but I will do again but remember I am not running the country. I think we should be out the single market customs union and ECJ. We should though have close trade ties with the EU preferably with no tariffs but if not so be it. The nothern Ireland border can be solved by trusted supplier, self assessment and spot audits very much as now and what the eventual solution will be when they stop squabbling. However what I think is irrelevant I am a mere voter not the government. What would your solution be ?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:08 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I have told you my plan many times before but I will do again but remember I am not running the country. I think we should be out the single market customs union and ECJ. We should though have close trade ties with the EU preferably with no tariffs but if not so be it. The nothern Ireland border can be solved by trusted supplier, self assessment and spot audits very much as now and what the eventual solution will be when they stop squabbling. However what I think is irrelevant I am a mere voter not the government. What would your solution be ?


Keep your promise on the border backstop and whatever your government wants to do after that is up to them.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I have told you my plan many times before but I will do again but remember I am not running the country. I think we should be out the single market customs union and ECJ. We should though have close trade ties with the EU preferably with no tariffs but if not so be it. The nothern Ireland border can be solved by trusted supplier, self assessment and spot audits very much as now and what the eventual solution will be when they stop squabbling. However what I think is irrelevant I am a mere voter not the government. What would your solution be ?


Keep your promise on the border backstop and whatever your government wants to do after that is up to them.



My reading is they have agreed to agree a mechanism that Britain could invoke to get out of the UK wide customs union once a more permanent solution could be found. I am guessing here but that could be something the EU has accepted and that might be the big announcement rumoured for tomorrow.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I have told you my plan many times before but I will do again but remember I am not running the country. I think we should be out the single market customs union and ECJ. We should though have close trade ties with the EU preferably with no tariffs but if not so be it. The nothern Ireland border can be solved by trusted supplier, self assessment and spot audits very much as now and what the eventual solution will be when they stop squabbling. However what I think is irrelevant I am a mere voter not the government. What would your solution be ?


Keep your promise on the border backstop and whatever your government wants to do after that is up to them.



My reading is they have agreed to agree a mechanism that Britain could invoke to get out of the UK wide customs union once a more permanent solution could be found. I am guessing here but that could be something the EU has accepted and that might be the big announcement rumoured for tomorrow.


There is not a chance that Britain will be allowed to unilaterally invoke any get out mechanism in relation to the backstop. So it will be some kind of fudge.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:38 PM

That I agree is a concern the EU have all the cards and are trying to retain control of Britain post brexit. This could have been avoided if British politicians had worked for Britain instead of party interests but I know I am expecting too much there. We need to see the actual deal rather than guessing given this time tommorow we might know
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
That I agree is a concern the EU have all the cards and are trying to retain control of Britain post brexit. This could have been avoided if British politicians had worked for Britain instead of party interests but I know I am expecting too much there. We need to see the actual deal rather than guessing given this time tommorow we might know


The whole thing is going to be a fudge. The big question is will she get it past parliament
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 07/11/18 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
That I agree is a concern the EU have all the cards and are trying to retain control of Britain post brexit. This could have been avoided if British politicians had worked for Britain instead of party interests but I know I am expecting too much there. We need to see the actual deal rather than guessing given this time tommorow we might know


The whole thing is going to be a fudge. The big question is will she get it past parliament


It was never going to be anything else but a fudge the EU is almost impossible to negotiate with as the Irish found out with the Lisbon treaty. I agree parliment is the issue I was never in doubt a deal would be done. However how many in parliment at the end of the day are going to vote for no deal ? I can't see it but I might be wrong nothing would surprise me with them
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
That I agree is a concern the EU have all the cards and are trying to retain control of Britain post brexit. This could have been avoided if British politicians had worked for Britain instead of party interests but I know I am expecting too much there. We need to see the actual deal rather than guessing given this time tommorow we might know


The whole thing is going to be a fudge. The big question is will she get it past parliament


It was never going to be anything else but a fudge the EU is almost impossible to negotiate with as the Irish found out with the Lisbon treaty. I agree parliment is the issue I was never in doubt a deal would be done. However how many in parliment at the end of the day are going to vote for no deal ? I can't see it but I might be wrong nothing would surprise me with them


The UK Government, even at this late stage still don't know what they want. Pretty impossible to negotiate under those circumstances.

Brexit in Name Only will be dressed up as a great deal for the UK
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 12:04 PM

You obviously don't remember the Lancaster house speech or have never heard of it. That was the governments position how long ago was that 18 months ago ? Some of it is still intact but events have moved on and in my opinion not for the better. I blame British politicians who have not worked together for the benefit of the nation. To be fair to May she had a difficult task particularly given she did not have a majority. Hopefully we are coming to the end game now whatever the deal is or is not
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You obviously don't remember the Lancaster house speech or have never heard of it. That was the governments position how long ago was that 18 months ago ? Some of it is still intact but events have moved on and in my opinion not for the better. I blame British politicians who have not worked together for the benefit of the nation. To be fair to May she had a difficult task particularly given she did not have a majority. Hopefully we are coming to the end game now whatever the deal is or is not


You obviously still believe in Santa if you think you were going to get everything May demanded in her Lancaster House speech. The fact that you acknowledge that "some of it is still intact" merely confirms that it was nothing more than bluster to satisfy Tory hardline brexiteers.

I blame Tory politicians and primarily David Cameron. This vote wasn't called for the good of the nation. It was called to shut up once and for all the Tory eurosceptics and to stop the rise of UKIP. The tories created this mess.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You obviously don't remember the Lancaster house speech or have never heard of it. That was the governments position how long ago was that 18 months ago ? Some of it is still intact but events have moved on and in my opinion not for the better. I blame British politicians who have not worked together for the benefit of the nation. To be fair to May she had a difficult task particularly given she did not have a majority. Hopefully we are coming to the end game now whatever the deal is or is not


You obviously still believe in Santa if you think you were going to get everything May demanded in her Lancaster House speech. The fact that you acknowledge that "some of it is still intact" merely confirms that it was nothing more than bluster to satisfy Tory hardline brexiteers.

I blame Tory politicians and primarily David Cameron. This vote wasn't called for the good of the nation. It was called to shut up once and for all the Tory eurosceptics and to stop the rise of UKIP. The tories created this mess.


Who decides what's for the good of the nation you ? I also thought your nation was Ireland not Britain. Why was UKIP on the rise ? Because people were disatisfied with being in the EU and wanted a vote. Incidently you might not know but the Tories campaign very hard for remain not leave. But let's not let facts get in the way
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
You obviously don't remember the Lancaster house speech or have never heard of it. That was the governments position how long ago was that 18 months ago ? Some of it is still intact but events have moved on and in my opinion not for the better. I blame British politicians who have not worked together for the benefit of the nation. To be fair to May she had a difficult task particularly given she did not have a majority. Hopefully we are coming to the end game now whatever the deal is or is not


You obviously still believe in Santa if you think you were going to get everything May demanded in her Lancaster House speech. The fact that you acknowledge that "some of it is still intact" merely confirms that it was nothing more than bluster to satisfy Tory hardline brexiteers.

I blame Tory politicians and primarily David Cameron. This vote wasn't called for the good of the nation. It was called to shut up once and for all the Tory eurosceptics and to stop the rise of UKIP. The tories created this mess.


Who decides what's for the good of the nation you ? I also thought your nation was Ireland not Britain. Why was UKIP on the rise ? Because people were disatisfied with being in the EU and wanted a vote. Incidently you might not know but the Tories campaign very hard for remain not leave. But let's not let facts get in the way


I'm fairly certain Gove, Davis, Johnson and those linked to the ERG alll campaigned very hard to leave. But as you said let's not let facts get in he way.
The brexit that was sold to the electorate is quite simply undeliverable.
What you have now is May trying to cobble together the least damaging Brexit, which will be Brexit in Name Only.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 02:44 PM

Individual Tory MP,s might have campaigned to leave but the Tory party campaigned to remain. Very complicated to understand that difficult concept isn't it my brain hurts just trying to conceptualise it. And we voted to leave the EU and that's what's going to happen in less than five months now, that sounds like delivery to me. Although I won't believe it till it happens
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 03:45 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Individual Tory MP,s might have campaigned to leave but the Tory party campaigned to remain. Very complicated to understand that difficult concept isn't it my brain hurts just trying to conceptualise it. And we voted to leave the EU and that's what's going to happen in less than five months now, that sounds like delivery to me. Although I won't believe it till it happens


Well you have already said you are happy to accept a deal that you hate so any Brexit is going to do you.

With that mindset I'm not surprised your brain hurts.

As with many deliveries once they arrive they bear no resemblance to what you ordered.

But you will have a lovely new passport made by a Franco-Dutch firm.
You will also be taking back control of your borders, apart form that awkward land border that you have with the EU.
Oh and you will be in a customs union.

Taking back control.




Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Individual Tory MP,s might have campaigned to leave but the Tory party campaigned to remain. Very complicated to understand that difficult concept isn't it my brain hurts just trying to conceptualise it. And we voted to leave the EU and that's what's going to happen in less than five months now, that sounds like delivery to me. Although I won't believe it till it happens


Well you have already said you are happy to accept a deal that you hate so any Brexit is going to do you.

With that mindset I'm not surprised your brain hurts.

As with many deliveries once they arrive they bear no resemblance to what you ordered.

But you will have a lovely new passport made by a Franco-Dutch firm.
You will also be taking back control of your borders, apart form that awkward land border that you have with the EU.
Oh and you will be in a customs union.

Taking back control.



I don't recall saying I hated it, I have not seen the final deal yet so my verdict will have to wait. I gave my opinion to you on chequers about 12 times not that it sunk in. The rest of your post is just taunting fine i can deal with that.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 08/11/18 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Individual Tory MP,s might have campaigned to leave but the Tory party campaigned to remain. Very complicated to understand that difficult concept isn't it my brain hurts just trying to conceptualise it. And we voted to leave the EU and that's what's going to happen in less than five months now, that sounds like delivery to me. Although I won't believe it till it happens


Well you have already said you are happy to accept a deal that you hate so any Brexit is going to do you.

With that mindset I'm not surprised your brain hurts.

As with many deliveries once they arrive they bear no resemblance to what you ordered.

But you will have a lovely new passport made by a Franco-Dutch firm.
You will also be taking back control of your borders, apart form that awkward land border that you have with the EU.
Oh and you will be in a customs union.

Taking back control.



I don't recall saying I hated it, I have not seen the final deal yet so my verdict will have to wait. I gave my opinion to you on chequers about 12 times not that it sunk in. The rest of your post is just taunting fine i can deal with that.


So are you back to Chequers this week? Only it was No Deal last week.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 03:36 AM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Individual Tory MP,s might have campaigned to leave but the Tory party campaigned to remain. Very complicated to understand that difficult concept isn't it my brain hurts just trying to conceptualise it. And we voted to leave the EU and that's what's going to happen in less than five months now, that sounds like delivery to me. Although I won't believe it till it happens


Well you have already said you are happy to accept a deal that you hate so any Brexit is going to do you.

With that mindset I'm not surprised your brain hurts.

As with many deliveries once they arrive they bear no resemblance to what you ordered.

But you will have a lovely new passport made by a Franco-Dutch firm.
You will also be taking back control of your borders, apart form that awkward land border that you have with the EU.
Oh and you will be in a customs union.

Taking back control.



I don't recall saying I hated it, I have not seen the final deal yet so my verdict will have to wait. I gave my opinion to you on chequers about 12 times not that it sunk in. The rest of your post is just taunting fine i can deal with that.


Raab has finally seen the light, he only now understood the importance of the Calais Dover channel. Better late than never though for some it will be never. What a joke, seriously.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 09:23 AM

labour have to back mays deal for this mess to be over with..the dup and nutters like boris will vote against the backstop so labour should back may.. ireland was always the break down but was ignored tho it should have been the main concern.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By EMP
labour have to back mays deal for this mess to be over with..the dup and nutters like boris will vote against the backstop so labour should back may.. ireland was always the break down but was ignored tho it should have been the main concern.


That can only happen if May doesn't care not to be PM or even in politics. If that happens she will lose her job immediately. You should stop having wet dreams
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 09:57 AM

thats the deal...u see the memo she sent the DUP ...thats the deal..backstop between nireland and uk ..its the deal
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 10:01 AM

and i think labour will support it or she must have already asked them for support behind closed doors..
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
and i think labour will support it or she must have already asked them for support behind closed doors..


She will probably lose her job before even being able to present for the parliamentary vote
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:11 PM

Pathetic rabb made an honest candid comment and it's been seized on by the Twitter brigade and remoaners some are even calling for rabb to be sacked. That's how patheic this is getting as we near the end of the process. Remoaners want to stop Britain leaving because they know once out we will never go back. But they are running out of both time and options and if this is the best they can drag up they are in bigger trouble than I thought. On a wider point we criticise politicians for not being candid with people and then we jump on them for making the slightest slip in wording. We therefore can't complain if in future politicians say nothing and speak like robots from carefully pre prepared statements
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:26 PM

thats nonsense, nothing to do with remainers..he is the brexit secretary! and gets paid loads to lead your country out of the EU ..he talked liked a child.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Pathetic rabb made an honest candid comment and it's been seized on by the Twitter brigade and remoaners some are even calling for rabb to be sacked. That's how patheic this is getting as we near the end of the process. Remoaners want to stop Britain leaving because they know once out we will never go back. But they are running out of both time and options and if this is the best they can drag up they are in bigger trouble than I thought. On a wider point we criticise politicians for not being candid with people and then we jump on them for making the slightest slip in wording. We therefore can't complain if in future politicians say nothing and speak like robots from carefully pre prepared statements


Don't think people are complaining about his candid comment but that he didn't seem to be aware. As a MP he should have done his homework, in fact, well before the referendum. But at least he understood, some still don't
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Pathetic rabb made an honest candid comment and it's been seized on by the Twitter brigade and remoaners some are even calling for rabb to be sacked. That's how patheic this is getting as we near the end of the process. Remoaners want to stop Britain leaving because they know once out we will never go back. But they are running out of both time and options and if this is the best they can drag up they are in bigger trouble than I thought. On a wider point we criticise politicians for not being candid with people and then we jump on them for making the slightest slip in wording. We therefore can't complain if in future politicians say nothing and speak like robots from carefully pre prepared statements


Remoaners - what age are you man?
I think leavers have plenty to be worrying about themselves
Brexit in Name Only is going to be hard to swallow
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:32 PM

yeah stan still thinks there is no issue with queues ..queues already is his brilliant analysis.. what we are seeing is what was obvious, u can't brexit without pain and u can't brexit fully without disaster..thats why the uk govt have done nothing in 2yrs
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By EMP
and i think labour will support it or she must have already asked them for support behind closed doors..


She will probably lose her job before even being able to present for the parliamentary vote


she has the safest job in history until this mess is over , then the morons will come in with their "knifes sharpened" and u will have them for leaders.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
thats nonsense, nothing to do with remainers..he is the brexit secretary! and gets paid loads to lead your country out of the EU ..he talked liked a child.


As I understand it he said he had not appreciated the role of Dover in relation to the other big south ports in relation to specific trade. Not he didn't realise Dover was a big port as its being portrayed. Probably unwise in today's hair trigger twittersphere but I hardly think it's a hanging offence obviously they are getting into the weeds of finer detail of a deal and things are cropping up. Pity they didn't do this 12 months ago rather than political squabbling but what do I know.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
thats nonsense, nothing to do with remainers..he is the brexit secretary! and gets paid loads to lead your country out of the EU ..he talked liked a child.


As I understand it he said he had not appreciated the role of Dover in relation to the other big south ports in relation to specific trade. Not he didn't realise Dover was a big port as its being portrayed. Probably unwise in today's hair trigger twittersphere but I hardly think it's a hanging offence obviously they are getting into the weeds of finer detail of a deal and things are cropping up. Pity they didn't do this 12 months ago rather than political squabbling but what do I know.


How come he hadn't appreciated that, it's the first thing to do when you want to analyse your cross border trade before even deciding what to vote. It's a joke.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 09/11/18 07:50 PM

Love to know who leaked the dup memo too.,,,stoking anger and trying to derail this insane process.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 10/11/18 09:56 AM

Tories can't do anything, paralyzed so strong rumours of snap election..Mi6 invited Corbyn for briefing.. shame I would love a uk in europe with social thinking influencing the EU.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 10/11/18 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By EMP
Tories can't do anything, paralyzed so strong rumours of snap election..Mi6 invited Corbyn for briefing.. shame I would love a uk in europe with social thinking influencing the EU.


if M16 invited Corbyn it's probably to question him about his links with Iran / putin and or anti semitism or other subversions
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 10/11/18 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By EMP
Tories can't do anything, paralyzed so strong rumours of snap election..Mi6 invited Corbyn for briefing.. shame I would love a uk in europe with social thinking influencing the EU.


if M16 invited Corbyn it's probably to question him about his links with Iran / putin and or anti semitism or other subversions



Will they be questioning anyone about selling arms to Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 10/11/18 05:34 PM

Only if they were sold against international law I assume not although maybe you have evidence they were ? Let's see it then
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 10/11/18 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Only if they were sold against international law I assume not although maybe you have evidence they were ? Let's see it then



And your evidence on Corbyn ?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 04:24 AM

The evidence is labour is once again a party of the people so that must be beaten by smears ,dirty tricks or whatever...and Mi6 have confirmed they thought it was time for Corbyn to be updated on security (hence adding to the election rumours )
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 04:52 PM

Labour are not a party of the people. No one I know, even traditional labour voters like theyíre direction or personnel. Theyíre the party of the far left, the protest vote or the idealistic but know nothing yoof which is a very dangerous thing. Theyíll take us back to the 70ís if anyone is stupid enough to vote for them and youíd have to be stupid to.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Labour are not a party of the people. No one I know, even traditional labour voters like theyíre direction or personnel. Theyíre the party of the far left, the protest vote or the idealistic but know nothing yoof which is a very dangerous thing. Theyíll take us back to the 70ís if anyone is stupid enough to vote for them and youíd have to be stupid to.


Oh dear wilki.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 08:01 PM

Nothing I said is wrong. The trouble is the alternatives are shitte too.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Nothing I said is wrong. The trouble is the alternatives are shitte too.


If you vote for labour you're stupid?
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 08:53 PM

better to vote for cayman island account loving, food banks producing elite idiots i suppose.
Posted by: EMP

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 11/11/18 10:47 PM

Also sure the people of liverpool will love being called stupid too.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 12/11/18 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Nothing I said is wrong. The trouble is the alternatives are shitte too.


If you vote for labour you're stupid?


Stupid is maybe a bit far. Not quite right would be better. And thatís this labour with its current set up. Theyíd be a disaster for this country and only the blind canít see it.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 12/11/18 07:30 PM

Jeremy Corbyn 'brexit can't be stopped" keir starmer (labours brexit secretary) the next day "brexit can be stopped" labour are all over the place. Who runs labour ? Corbyn ? Momentum ? The unions ? No one knows even Corbyn probably does not know. The Tories are in a mess too. It makes you wonder whether the hundred year old Tory vs labour has passed its time. Do either represent modern British society ? The problem is our voting system makes it very difficult for new parties to break through which of course suits our self serving political class
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 12/11/18 09:03 PM

Yeah sure.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 12/11/18 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
Yeah sure.


# I blame Corbyn.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 12:19 PM

Just watched the BBC news obviously what's going on we don't know but the BBC are reporting the only remaining issue is the EU want the ECJ involved in britains exit from a temporary customs union and that's the sticking point. I find it hard to believe having come this far a deal won't be done. It looks to me May is negotiating hard to get something she believes parliment can live with and ECJ controlling britains exit is not something parliment will live with. The good news seems to be also both Britain and the EU want Britain to be in the customs union only temporary the EU sees that as favourable to Britain so hopefully that will mean it is temporary. There is no point in May agreeing a deal if it gets rejected by parliment and that must be in both parties thinking.
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 12:45 PM

You know any deal she gets will be rejected. Itís a chance for politicians to try and make a name for themselves and labour will oppose it to try and force a general election.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By wilkij1975
You know any deal she gets will be rejected. Itís a chance for politicians to try and make a name for themselves and labour will oppose it to try and force a general election.


I know its whats known as politicians working together in the national interest I understand. Makes you proud to be british
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 02:20 PM

Yep. Theyíre all a bunch of cvnts.
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 03:19 PM

Bojo is getting very agitated these days, what's up with him, is he being forced on a diet or something, maybe he is not getting his bananas.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Bojo is getting very agitated these days, what's up with him, is he being forced on a diet or something, maybe he is not getting his bananas.


He misjudged his leadership bid.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Bojo is getting very agitated these days, what's up with him, is he being forced on a diet or something, maybe he is not getting his bananas.


He misjudged his leadership bid.


Just a tad.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:09 PM

Apparently a deal has been agreed
Posted by: lumba

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:11 PM

I heard earlier that a deal was almost within touching distance..Lol almost.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By lumba
I heard earlier that a deal was almost within touching distance..Lol almost.


Agreed according to Irish media sources
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Apparently a deal has been agreed


By whom?
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Apparently a deal has been agreed


By whom?


The UK and the EU

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/blo...n-politics-live

Here's the link.

The Irish guy reporting this is usually spot on.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:22 PM

Not one for links but its probably correct its not excatly a secret a deal is close. Getting it through parliment is the big test. Hard to comment without seeing it. Its going to have to be very bad for them to reject it.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Not one for links but its probably correct its not excatly a secret a deal is close. Getting it through parliment is the big test. Hard to comment without seeing it. Its going to have to be very bad for them to reject it.


Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Not one for links but its probably correct its not excatly a secret a deal is close. Getting it through parliment is the big test. Hard to comment without seeing it. Its going to have to be very bad for them to reject it.


Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides.


We can but hope. I am sure we are all sick to the back teeth of thinking about it. Simply get the best deal we can and move on.
Posted by: Shaggydog

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Not one for links but its probably correct its not excatly a secret a deal is close. Getting it through parliment is the big test. Hard to comment without seeing it. Its going to have to be very bad for them to reject it.


Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides.


We can but hope. I am sure we are all sick to the back teeth of thinking about it. Simply get the best deal we can and move on.


Yeah exactly Stan. Time for the point scoring and posturing to end.
Posted by: Stanley Park

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 06:12 PM

Yes I am bored with it now shaggy

Emergency cabinet meeting called for tommorow
Posted by: wilkij1975

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 13/11/18 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Not one for links but its probably correct its not excatly a secret a deal is close. Getting it through parliment is the big test. Hard to comment without seeing it. Its going to have to be very bad for them to reject it.


Hopefully common sense will prevail on all sides.


We can but hope. I am sure we are all sick to the back teeth of thinking about it. Simply get the best deal we can and move on.


Yeah exactly Stan. Time for the point scoring and posturing to end.


Good luck with that and our politicians!
Posted by: EnergisedReds

Re: Brexit and the chequers agreem - 14/11/18 04:19 AM

Looks like the soap is not over yet, even if the cabinet agrees to the deal. ERG are apparently very unhappy and Bojo is trying everything to get attention. I do wish that your cabinet agrees and hopefully then Labour votes the deal as it looks like a customs union, something they wanted themselves. That would probably split the Tories, but hey, economy first, right?
Posted by: