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#637476 11/03/21 12:35 PM
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Whether Kabac is worth £19m ? Maybe maybe not but he is young and seems to be adjusting to prem. Philips looking more solid by the week.

So for me those two quality back ups next season

VVD Assuming ok fitness wise a shoe in alongside him Matip or Gomez with kabac / Philips when one of the glass pair get injured ?

That might be enough next season if we have to spend big suggest its striker we need and maybe midfield assuming keita can't be relied upon?


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Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Whether Kabac is worth £19m ? Maybe maybe not but he is young and seems to be adjusting to prem. Philips looking more solid by the week.

So for me those two quality back ups next season

VVD Assuming ok fitness wise a shoe in alongside him Matip or Gomez with kabac / Philips when one of the glass pair get injured ?

That might be enough next season if we have to spend big suggest its striker we need and maybe midfield assuming keita can't be relied upon?



I still think we need to bring a proven top defender even if it means we need to let Kabak go, he is not good enough at least yet and we need to replace Origi

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I think Kabak's adapted quite quickly considering. He looks very assured/confident. Unless FSG are going to sanction a big CB signing, I'd keep him.
If this was fantasy football I'd sell both Matip and Gomez and bring in one proven, injury free CB to partner VvD.

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Originally Posted By RedJohn
I think Kabak's adapted quite quickly considering. He looks very assured/confident. Unless FSG are going to sanction a big CB signing, I'd keep him.
If this was fantasy football I'd sell both Matip and Gomez and bring in one proven, injury free CB to partner VvD.


I agree, I do not see any better CB for under £20 million, so unless we have the money to go out and buy a top class CB we should keep him, he's young and has allot of potential, he is playing in one of the most difficult periods we have had under Klopp with the defense and MF a mess, so if he can look good now, he should be fine for the future.

Whether the CB is sorted long term depends on how VvD & Gomez come back from injury, I don't count Matip as he will always have injuries and his is not possible career changing, we won't know that until quite a while after they have started playing, hopefully they will be just as good, but they have had possible career changing injuries.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By RedJohn
I think Kabak's adapted quite quickly considering. He looks very assured/confident. Unless FSG are going to sanction a big CB signing, I'd keep him.
If this was fantasy football I'd sell both Matip and Gomez and bring in one proven, injury free CB to partner VvD.


I agree, I do not see any better CB for under £20 million, so unless we have the money to go out and buy a top class CB we should keep him, he's young and has allot of potential, he is playing in one of the most difficult periods we have had under Klopp with the defense and MF a mess, so if he can look good now, he should be fine for the future.

Whether the CB is sorted long term depends on how VvD & Gomez come back from injury, I don't count Matip as he will always have injuries and his is not possible career changing, we won't know that until quite a while after they have started playing, hopefully they will be just as good, but they have had possible career changing injuries.


He has looked too slow for our game even if he can get better passing the ball, he will not get as quick as Gomez, let alone VVD

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No it's not sorted out yet. Totally different game to a PL match in many ways. We were 2-0 up from the start so there were always going to be gaps to exploit and we should have been out of sight after 25 mins.

That said those 2 have played together twice and kept 2 clean sheets. Always going to have a good chance of winning games if you keep a clean sheet. Phillips is looking like an uncompromising hard as nails CB. Play the man, ball an' all style of defending. How he got away without a booking on Weds I will never know but he just played it simple and when it needed row Z then that's where it went.

This tactic will work so well against a lot of teams who cannot string 10 or 15 passes together. I just hope we don't get City next because they will find us out and will take Fabinho out by hook or by crook.

Phillips has gone from a £750k player to a £15m player almost overnight but for our style of play he is not the answer. But he has more heart than I have seen for a long time in a red shirt.

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Phillips would do really well for a mid-table team (like... us). Not the worst 4th choice CB and I'd take him over Lovren anyday.

Call it optimism but I think VvD will be back 100%. He's the perfect player to return from that kind of injury. Great reading of the game and intelligence negates the need for many crunching 50-50's. Calm on the ball and his pace is more of a stride than a sprint.
Gomez as mentioned, just seems brittle. I think Kabak will get the chance to learn from Vvd like Gomez has.

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Originally Posted By RedJohn
Phillips would do really well for a mid-table team (like... us). Not the worst 4th choice CB and I'd take him over Lovren anyday.

Call it optimism but I think VvD will be back 100%. He's the perfect player to return from that kind of injury. Great reading of the game and intelligence negates the need for many crunching 50-50's. Calm on the ball and his pace is more of a stride than a sprint.
Gomez as mentioned, just seems brittle. I think Kabak will get the chance to learn from Vvd like Gomez has.


Unless we stop playing the high line, we need pacy central defenders which neither Phillips nor Lovren are

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Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By RedJohn
Phillips would do really well for a mid-table team (like... us). Not the worst 4th choice CB and I'd take him over Lovren anyday.

Call it optimism but I think VvD will be back 100%. He's the perfect player to return from that kind of injury. Great reading of the game and intelligence negates the need for many crunching 50-50's. Calm on the ball and his pace is more of a stride than a sprint.
Gomez as mentioned, just seems brittle. I think Kabak will get the chance to learn from Vvd like Gomez has.


Unless we stop playing the high line, we need pacy central defenders which neither Phillips nor Lovren are


Sorry, Kabak

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Gini is the "Only" player to have played in every one of our PL games this season...I believe sorting his contract situation is up there with getting an experienced quality CB!

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Interesting post ACCA. What do u mean when u say Phillips does not suit our style of play. Too slow?

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Originally Posted By BARTON42
Interesting post ACCA. What do u mean when u say Phillips does not suit our style of play. Too slow?


Yes, too slow for our high line of defence tactics

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Originally Posted By Pickles
Gini is the "Only" player to have played in every one of our PL games this season...I believe sorting his contract situation is up there with getting an experienced quality CB!


Yep, that one is a travesty, it's clear that Klopp wants to keep him but can't understand why other clubs can offer him a better contract. Klopp should put his foot down but he doesn't look to have the balls to confront FSG/Edwards

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Originally Posted By BARTON42
Interesting post ACCA. What do u mean when u say Phillips does not suit our style of play. Too slow?


Yes too slow and not the one to be coming forward with the ball and making that decision of when to release the ball forward. But like his dad he has the heart of a lion and if others had put in the same effort especially in recent home games we might have had a better chance of top 4.I

When everyone is fit he doesn't even get on a 9 man bench.

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I think phillips has the potential to be a world class defender, massive game for him tonight , if he can just do it again and again - he is a bit carragher to me .

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Originally Posted By EMP
I think phillips has the potential to be a world class defender, massive game for him tonight , if he can just do it again and again - he is a bit carragher to me .


I doubt he will ever get to be World Class, he just has not got the pace to be that, he will always be vulnerable on the turn, but I do think he can be a very good PL defender and can be an option in defence for us, it will come down to how much he wants to play, as he will not get in ahead of our first choice CB's when fit as Klopp wants the high line & press, which does not suit Phillips.

I am sure quite a few PL teams will be in for him in the summer, I can see him doing well at a team like Brighton or Burnley, where they have similar players like Dunk & Mee, I would like him to stay, but his likely to be 4th 5th Choice when the defenders are back fit.

No one can knock him for his effort or commitment, he has playerd really well whenever he has played.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EMP
I think phillips has the potential to be a world class defender, massive game for him tonight , if he can just do it again and again - he is a bit carragher to me .


I doubt he will ever get to be World Class, he just has not got the pace to be that, he will always be vulnerable on the turn, but I do think he can be a very good PL defender and can be an option in defence for us, it will come down to how much he wants to play, as he will not get in ahead of our first choice CB's when fit as Klopp wants the high line & press, which does not suit Phillips.

I am sure quite a few PL teams will be in for him in the summer, I can see him doing well at a team like Brighton or Burnley, where they have similar players like Dunk & Mee, I would like him to stay, but his likely to be 4th 5th Choice when the defenders are back fit.

No one can knock him for his effort or commitment, he has playerd really well whenever he has played.


He will never get even close to World Class with his passing

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Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EMP
I think phillips has the potential to be a world class defender, massive game for him tonight , if he can just do it again and again - he is a bit carragher to me .


I doubt he will ever get to be World Class, he just has not got the pace to be that, he will always be vulnerable on the turn, but I do think he can be a very good PL defender and can be an option in defence for us, it will come down to how much he wants to play, as he will not get in ahead of our first choice CB's when fit as Klopp wants the high line & press, which does not suit Phillips.

I am sure quite a few PL teams will be in for him in the summer, I can see him doing well at a team like Brighton or Burnley, where they have similar players like Dunk & Mee, I would like him to stay, but his likely to be 4th 5th Choice when the defenders are back fit.

No one can knock him for his effort or commitment, he has playerd really well whenever he has played.


He will never get even close to World Class with his passing


Actually his passing has surprised me, he is better than I expected, I also like that sometimes he takes the no risk approach to clear/hit it into the stand if in doubt.

I thought Phillips and Kabak had good games last night, they looked comfortable and in control, they are forming a good partnership and should be left at CB now if available, Fab improves our MF with his cover play and presence, the last few minutes were abit frantic, but that was after the long injury break and Wolves taking more risks.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EMP
I think phillips has the potential to be a world class defender, massive game for him tonight , if he can just do it again and again - he is a bit carragher to me .


I doubt he will ever get to be World Class, he just has not got the pace to be that, he will always be vulnerable on the turn, but I do think he can be a very good PL defender and can be an option in defence for us, it will come down to how much he wants to play, as he will not get in ahead of our first choice CB's when fit as Klopp wants the high line & press, which does not suit Phillips.

I am sure quite a few PL teams will be in for him in the summer, I can see him doing well at a team like Brighton or Burnley, where they have similar players like Dunk & Mee, I would like him to stay, but his likely to be 4th 5th Choice when the defenders are back fit.

No one can knock him for his effort or commitment, he has playerd really well whenever he has played.


He will never get even close to World Class with his passing


Actually his passing has surprised me, he is better than I expected, I also like that sometimes he takes the no risk approach to clear/hit it into the stand if in doubt.

I thought Phillips and Kabak had good games last night, they looked comfortable and in control, they are forming a good partnership and should be left at CB now if available, Fab improves our MF with his cover play and presence, the last few minutes were abit frantic, but that was after the long injury break and Wolves taking more risks.


His passing is better than you expected, did we watch the same game? Your expectations should be very low

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he hit one awful pass but overall he is very careful like a big lump defender should be

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Originally Posted By EnergisedReds

His passing is better than you expected, did we watch the same game? Your expectations should be very low


He looked surprisingly comfortable on the ball and did not panic when some other players played him the ball when they shouldn't !!! he was always available to receive the ball and looked settled, Wolves have allot of movement and skilfull players, I thiught he might struggle with that, he did well, I remember him playing one bad ball when he tried to spray it to the wing and it did not make it, I am not saying he is a great ball playing CB.

I have seen him play a few games recently, he always played pretty well and did not let the team down, that's good enough for me under the current circumstances.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds

His passing is better than you expected, did we watch the same game? Your expectations should be very low


He looked surprisingly comfortable on the ball and did not panic when some other players played him the ball when they shouldn't !!! he was always available to receive the ball and looked settled, Wolves have allot of movement and skilfull players, I thiught he might struggle with that, he did well, I remember him playing one bad ball when he tried to spray it to the wing and it did not make it, I am not saying he is a great ball playing CB.

I have seen him play a few games recently, he always played pretty well and did not let the team down, that's good enough for me under the current circumstances.


Under our current dire circumstances where the club didn't think that a top CB was required, definitely, but him becoming world class, sorry, can't see that happening. He lacks both the pace and passing ability for that, but having genuine CBs has helped us keep clean sheets, which is great.

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Not sure where everybodys obsession with world class has come from?

Just won champions league and the prem with most of the team not being world class to start off with at least.

I'd say the only world class signings we made are van dijk and alisson.

Most of our players have come from within or have been nabbed from lower league teams.

We've had Klopp for 5 years now and you can name on one hand high value players which we have bought so unless we suddenly become chelsea or city overnight I don't think we are just going to start buying world class players willy nilly unless we are have some kind of change.

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Originally Posted By jim_beam
Not sure where everybodys obsession with world class has come from?

Just won champions league and the prem with most of the team not being world class to start off with at least.

I'd say the only world class signings we made are van dijk and alisson.

Most of our players have come from within or have been nabbed from lower league teams.

We've had Klopp for 5 years now and you can name on one hand high value players which we have bought so unless we suddenly become chelsea or city overnight I don't think we are just going to start buying world class players willy nilly unless we are have some kind of change.


It depends how you define world class, let's leave Messi and Ronaldo for now because they stand on their own on a different pillar from the current generation but for me judging whether a player is world class or not is can he start for the other top teams. Would Alisson start for Real, Barcelona,Bayern etc? Yes in my opinion, Vvd yes, Arnold and Robbo from last season yes, Wijnaldum yes, Fabinho yes, front 3 definitely yes. So based on the formula most of our starting 11 that won those trophies are world class in my opinion.


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Sorry but saying Philips has the potential to be world class is laughable. He is a limited player doing a decent job

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Originally Posted By Snakeye
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Not sure where everybodys obsession with world class has come from?

Just won champions league and the prem with most of the team not being world class to start off with at least.

I'd say the only world class signings we made are van dijk and alisson.

Most of our players have come from within or have been nabbed from lower league teams.

We've had Klopp for 5 years now and you can name on one hand high value players which we have bought so unless we suddenly become chelsea or city overnight I don't think we are just going to start buying world class players willy nilly unless we are have some kind of change.


It depends how you define world class, let's leave Messi and Ronaldo for now because they stand on their own on a different pillar from the current generation but for me judging whether a player is world class or not is can he start for the other top teams. Would Alisson start for Real, Barcelona,Bayern etc? Yes in my opinion, Vvd yes, Arnold and Robbo from last season yes, Wijnaldum yes, Fabinho yes, front 3 definitely yes. So based on the formula most of our starting 11 that won those trophies are world class in my opinion.


Very fair point and I agree with you that yes now most of our team probably would have a good chance of getting into those teams so I suppose the same wouldn't be said for phillips and kabac and that would be fair enough as well?

My but is, that, none of those players were really thought of as world class when we signed them so I don't believe we are just going to sign ready made world class players unless it's the odd one here or there. So by the same notion that our players have grown to be world class I don't see why kabac and phillips should just be already dismissed out of hand. Look phillips isn't going to turn into Van Dijk but I rekon if he chooses to be a good back-up option I would happily take it. I think his style is something we don't really have and we could utilise.

The absolute worst defender I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt by a country mile is Lovren. I've heard people say Lorven was a good back-up in my mind phillips and kabac are already miles ahead of him because having Lovren in the starting line up was like being 1 down before kick off. He was a bull in a china shop. I was listening to one of the fan channels on youtube and when talking about phillips the presenter said that Lovren was a miles better defender, I actually spat my drink out when I heard that. So far as of yet he hasn't put a foot wrong, Lovren errors would have lead to 4 goals being conceeded in the time that phillips and kabac have started together.

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Originally Posted By jim_beam
Originally Posted By Snakeye
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Not sure where everybodys obsession with world class has come from?

Just won champions league and the prem with most of the team not being world class to start off with at least.

I'd say the only world class signings we made are van dijk and alisson.

Most of our players have come from within or have been nabbed from lower league teams.

We've had Klopp for 5 years now and you can name on one hand high value players which we have bought so unless we suddenly become chelsea or city overnight I don't think we are just going to start buying world class players willy nilly unless we are have some kind of change.


It depends how you define world class, let's leave Messi and Ronaldo for now because they stand on their own on a different pillar from the current generation but for me judging whether a player is world class or not is can he start for the other top teams. Would Alisson start for Real, Barcelona,Bayern etc? Yes in my opinion, Vvd yes, Arnold and Robbo from last season yes, Wijnaldum yes, Fabinho yes, front 3 definitely yes. So based on the formula most of our starting 11 that won those trophies are world class in my opinion.


Very fair point and I agree with you that yes now most of our team probably would have a good chance of getting into those teams so I suppose the same wouldn't be said for phillips and kabac and that would be fair enough as well?

My but is, that, none of those players were really thought of as world class when we signed them so I don't believe we are just going to sign ready made world class players unless it's the odd one here or there. So by the same notion that our players have grown to be world class I don't see why kabac and phillips should just be already dismissed out of hand. Look phillips isn't going to turn into Van Dijk but I rekon if he chooses to be a good back-up option I would happily take it. I think his style is something we don't really have and we could utilise.

The absolute worst defender I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt by a country mile is Lovren. I've heard people say Lorven was a good back-up in my mind phillips and kabac are already miles ahead of him because having Lovren in the starting line up was like being 1 down before kick off. He was a bull in a china shop. I was listening to one of the fan channels on youtube and when talking about phillips the presenter said that Lovren was a miles better defender, I actually spat my drink out when I heard that. So far as of yet he hasn't put a foot wrong, Lovren errors would have lead to 4 goals being conceeded in the time that phillips and kabac have started together.


I agree on Lovren, I think Lovren's problem was he thought he was better than he was !!!! he was a good defender but we all knew he had a big mistake in him and he usually made 1 mistake per game, the question was would our opponent take advantage, as you say, when you saw his name on the team sheet you knew it was a risk, Phillips tends to do the simple stuff well and does not take risks thinking he is Beckenbauer.

As for World Class, for me it is if that players is one of the best (top 5) in his position, so that means they would get a game in the best teams like RM/Barca/Juve/Bayern etc, we have only gone out and bought 2 World Class players for me recently (VvD & Alisson) and we paid a World Class fee for both.

We have also bought very good players who have become World Class under Klopp (Salah/Mane/Fab/Wij/Firminho), we have also bought cheap lesser known players who have turned into World Class (Robertson/Henderson/Coutinho/Gomez) under Klopp development.

I think we will only buy World Class if Klopp cannot find an alternative to fix an immediate problem, otherwise he will identify and develop a player to suit his system, like he has done with the likes of Wij & Salah.

On Phillips, we do not need World Class, we need a good reliable squad player at CB who can cover when we lose the likes of VvD/Gomez/Matip, happy playing in cup games, from what I have seen he can do that, he is also abit different wo out other CB's with his dogs of war style, so is useful to bring in against teams who bomb the box with big forwards on the end of crosses, the likes of Burnley/WBA/Newcastle etc, same go's for bringing him on late as extra cover when a team starts launching it, like Wolves did the other night.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Originally Posted By Snakeye
Originally Posted By jim_beam
Not sure where everybodys obsession with world class has come from?

Just won champions league and the prem with most of the team not being world class to start off with at least.

I'd say the only world class signings we made are van dijk and alisson.

Most of our players have come from within or have been nabbed from lower league teams.

We've had Klopp for 5 years now and you can name on one hand high value players which we have bought so unless we suddenly become chelsea or city overnight I don't think we are just going to start buying world class players willy nilly unless we are have some kind of change.


It depends how you define world class, let's leave Messi and Ronaldo for now because they stand on their own on a different pillar from the current generation but for me judging whether a player is world class or not is can he start for the other top teams. Would Alisson start for Real, Barcelona,Bayern etc? Yes in my opinion, Vvd yes, Arnold and Robbo from last season yes, Wijnaldum yes, Fabinho yes, front 3 definitely yes. So based on the formula most of our starting 11 that won those trophies are world class in my opinion.


Very fair point and I agree with you that yes now most of our team probably would have a good chance of getting into those teams so I suppose the same wouldn't be said for phillips and kabac and that would be fair enough as well?

My but is, that, none of those players were really thought of as world class when we signed them so I don't believe we are just going to sign ready made world class players unless it's the odd one here or there. So by the same notion that our players have grown to be world class I don't see why kabac and phillips should just be already dismissed out of hand. Look phillips isn't going to turn into Van Dijk but I rekon if he chooses to be a good back-up option I would happily take it. I think his style is something we don't really have and we could utilise.

The absolute worst defender I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt by a country mile is Lovren. I've heard people say Lorven was a good back-up in my mind phillips and kabac are already miles ahead of him because having Lovren in the starting line up was like being 1 down before kick off. He was a bull in a china shop. I was listening to one of the fan channels on youtube and when talking about phillips the presenter said that Lovren was a miles better defender, I actually spat my drink out when I heard that. So far as of yet he hasn't put a foot wrong, Lovren errors would have lead to 4 goals being conceeded in the time that phillips and kabac have started together.


I agree on Lovren, I think Lovren's problem was he thought he was better than he was !!!! he was a good defender but we all knew he had a big mistake in him and he usually made 1 mistake per game, the question was would our opponent take advantage, as you say, when you saw his name on the team sheet you knew it was a risk, Phillips tends to do the simple stuff well and does not take risks thinking he is Beckenbauer.

As for World Class, for me it is if that players is one of the best (top 5) in his position, so that means they would get a game in the best teams like RM/Barca/Juve/Bayern etc, we have only gone out and bought 2 World Class players for me recently (VvD & Alisson) and we paid a World Class fee for both.

We have also bought very good players who have become World Class under Klopp (Salah/Mane/Fab/Wij/Firminho), we have also bought cheap lesser known players who have turned into World Class (Robertson/Henderson/Coutinho/Gomez) under Klopp development.

I think we will only buy World Class if Klopp cannot find an alternative to fix an immediate problem, otherwise he will identify and develop a player to suit his system, like he has done with the likes of Wij & Salah.

On Phillips, we do not need World Class, we need a good reliable squad player at CB who can cover when we lose the likes of VvD/Gomez/Matip, happy playing in cup games, from what I have seen he can do that, he is also abit different wo out other CB's with his dogs of war style, so is useful to bring in against teams who bomb the box with big forwards on the end of crosses, the likes of Burnley/WBA/Newcastle etc, same go's for bringing him on late as extra cover when a team starts launching it, like Wolves did the other night.


Nail on head for me.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
Liverpool Legend
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Liverpool Legend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27,628
I agree world-class is not what we need good quality gelling players with a sprinkling of world-class (whatever that is) players

Just like we had last season


IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY
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