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I'm saying bad in terms of the resources and money which the owners of Man City provide to Pep.

Its remarkable they are so far behind and losing (at the moment) to Man City.

Is it bad luck?
Has Klopp destroyed Pep to the extent that Pep would prefer to be sacked, pocket millions and scarper to an easier league maybe France with PSG where he can keep his unearned legacy as being a world class manager alive.

Are the players too well paid now and complacent?

either way it mystifies me that out competition is not really competition at all.

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I blame Achterberg.

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Aguero still looks good

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Originally Posted By Welsh_Wizard
I'm saying bad in terms of the resources and money which the owners of Man City provide to Pep.

Its remarkable they are so far behind and losing (at the moment) to Man City.



You can question all you like. You have to accept that as it stands we are all watching the best Liverpool side in the history of the PL.
We are at the moment the best team in the world by some distance.

We are doing everything that City did 2 years ago when they got 100 points. Our target must be to eclipse that and successfully defend the CL.

Of course there is competition. But what you are seeing with us is an extremely high level of teamwork, effort and discipline. Time after time it gets rewarded.

I don't understand what you are saying about losing to Man City.

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Fantastic sly dig at the two best managers in the world.

I say this because WW is saying that we have no competition so therefore implying everyone else must be poor. So when we win this thing if not due to VAR will it be due to everyone else being poor?

And saying Pep has an unearned legacy as a world class manager is a joke. So therefore if Klopp wins the title he hasn't exactly beaten much?

Is this what you are saying Welshie? Because from where I am this looks like the sort of thing that someone who supports our most bitter rivals would imply.

I will put this as simply as I can. We are the best team in the world. And simply getting better and better. Why hit the top and stop to wait for others to catch up?

Being as good as we are is down to hard work. Why should we be worried about how good or bad everyone else is?

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Originally Posted By Welsh_Wizard
I'm saying bad in terms of the resources and money which the owners of Man City provide to Pep.

Its remarkable they are so far behind and losing (at the moment) to Man City.

Is it bad luck?
Has Klopp destroyed Pep to the extent that Pep would prefer to be sacked, pocket millions and scarper to an easier league maybe France with PSG where he can keep his unearned legacy as being a world class manager alive.

Are the players too well paid now and complacent?

either way it mystifies me that out competition is not really competition at all.


It's mainly because of their defence after losing Laporte as they did not replace Kompany. They wanted Maguire but United outbid them as they had to be very cautious with spending after being investigated

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It will be interesting to see how this season pans out.

Is Pep up for re-building the Man City team next season? with David Silva already going and Aguero (contract until 2021) and Fernandinho (contract until end of this season) this is a team with players getting on in age. Pep's Wife and Daughter have also gone back to Spain which is a huge pointer to him leaving.

I believe Citeh have already approached Pochettino for next season and that is why United are sticking with Ole.

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Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By Welsh_Wizard
I'm saying bad in terms of the resources and money which the owners of Man City provide to Pep.

Its remarkable they are so far behind and losing (at the moment) to Man City.

Is it bad luck?
Has Klopp destroyed Pep to the extent that Pep would prefer to be sacked, pocket millions and scarper to an easier league maybe France with PSG where he can keep his unearned legacy as being a world class manager alive.

Are the players too well paid now and complacent?

either way it mystifies me that out competition is not really competition at all.


It's mainly because of their defence after losing Laporte as they did not replace Kompany. They wanted Maguire but United outbid them as they had to be very cautious with spending after being investigated


I agree, they are all a year older as well, players like Fernandinho, Walker & Aguro (he's still great), losing Laporte was massive blow, especially with no Kompany to fill in, Cancelo has looked that great for £60 million, so they are vulnerable in defense.

Sane was also a big loss, he rescued lots of points for them last season by coming off the bench and turning games, they have missed him, looks like he will be off to Bayern also.

Also, teams have seen City are defensively vulnerable, so they are having a go at them, last season they looked beaten before kicking off, like they do when they are playing us this season!

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It seems it's the 3 year (ish) cycle rule. It's very difficult for any team to perform at peak level for more than 2-3 seasons - esp teams that play high intensity, high octane football. Some players get older/slower; some lose the hunger; some stop listening to the manager... it's just natural.

It will happen to us after this season I suspect. If we win the league, most players will have won the CL and the Title. How many will want to try that again and again? Esp the overseas players... I suspect quite a few will want the next challenege - in Spain or Italy.

The club may also decide to cash in on Mane or Salah in order to refresh the team and also because of the change to the timing of African Nations Cup.

So enjoy every moment of this season whilst it lasts.


'I was only in the game for the love of football - and I wanted to bring back happiness to the people of Liverpool.' Bill Shankly

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Originally Posted By TheMightyLFC
It seems it's the 3 year (ish) cycle rule. It's very difficult for any team to perform at peak level for more than 2-3 seasons - esp teams that play high intensity, high octane football. Some players get older/slower; some lose the hunger; some stop listening to the manager... it's just natural.

It will happen to us after this season I suspect. If we win the league, most players will have won the CL and the Title. How many will want to try that again and again? Esp the overseas players... I suspect quite a few will want the next challenege - in Spain or Italy.

The club may also decide to cash in on Mane or Salah in order to refresh the team and also because of the change to the timing of African Nations Cup.

So enjoy every moment of this season whilst it lasts.


There is so much in what you say which is so true Mighty. But above all of that I think the hunger of the fans will keep it stoked up and burning for a long time.

The inevitable happens as players get older so you have to keep the plans fluid for incoming players. We only seem to buy players of a certain age because who wants to lose them at 27/28 for nothing having given them pots of money since 20/21.

Losing Suarez, Coutinho to the money clubs and Gerrard, Carragher to retirement over a 5 year period was always going to be difficult but what a transformation we have seen. I am not so sure City will find that same resolve in the period where they lose Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and possibly Aguero in the same time span.

I agree that we may lose Salah or Mane but we will pick up another player for Klopp to improve and take us to yet another level. Can you just imagine him getting Mbappe and making him better?

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Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By TheMightyLFC
It seems it's the 3 year (ish) cycle rule. It's very difficult for any team to perform at peak level for more than 2-3 seasons - esp teams that play high intensity, high octane football. Some players get older/slower; some lose the hunger; some stop listening to the manager... it's just natural.

It will happen to us after this season I suspect. If we win the league, most players will have won the CL and the Title. How many will want to try that again and again? Esp the overseas players... I suspect quite a few will want the next challenege - in Spain or Italy.

The club may also decide to cash in on Mane or Salah in order to refresh the team and also because of the change to the timing of African Nations Cup.

So enjoy every moment of this season whilst it lasts.


There is so much in what you say which is so true Mighty. But above all of that I think the hunger of the fans will keep it stoked up and burning for a long time.

The inevitable happens as players get older so you have to keep the plans fluid for incoming players. We only seem to buy players of a certain age because who wants to lose them at 27/28 for nothing having given them pots of money since 20/21.

Losing Suarez, Coutinho to the money clubs and Gerrard, Carragher to retirement over a 5 year period was always going to be difficult but what a transformation we have seen. I am not so sure City will find that same resolve in the period where they lose Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho and possibly Aguero in the same time span.

I agree that we may lose Salah or Mane but we will pick up another player for Klopp to improve and take us to yet another level. Can you just imagine him getting Mbappe and making him better?


I think we bought Minamino for cover and to replace one of the front if we sell, we also have the likes of Elliott coming through, who looks like he could be ready in a few years.

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I can definitely see one of Mane or Salah going (more likely Salah imo) and if we get good money for him and replace with quality I think we’ll be alright. Someone young like Sancho that we can get a lot of years out of would be good.

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Originally Posted By WNP
I can definitely see one of Mane or Salah going (more likely Salah imo) and if we get good money for him and replace with quality I think we’ll be alright. Someone young like Sancho that we can get a lot of years out of would be good.


I just cannot see us spending huge money (£100+million) on someone like Sancho who is only 19, I guess it depends on what we get for someone like Salah, we spent big on VvD, but that was with the inflated money we got for Coutinho.

I can see us bringing in someone who Klopp can work on and mould, he does like doing that.


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For me the main thing is that we are now able to win games that we were drawing last season and grind out games.

City are obviously missing Laporte, who arguably is of same importance as VVD to us (as they only have 2 reliable CBs excluding Otamendi who Pep doesnt trust), but I think the even bigger reason is Pep's refusal to play football anyway other than his passing the ball into the net philosophy.

If you watch us, quite often we go very direct with a long ball down the channel or over the top when mane or salah makes diagonal infield runs. City always insists on playing out from the back and in their certain way, which makes them easier to prepare against. Together with their defence sucking in Laporte's absence, this has caused them to drop points.

I think City on their day still play better football than us (although we are good ourselves), but I'd happily trade the pretty passing for results and trophies

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FSG have set their stall out pretty well and I think teams know if they're going to prise our top players away, it's going to cost them big big money. I can't see Salah going for less than £150m and it's a happy team, no-one's forcing a move through.

We're also not reliant on any one player so I'd more than trust Klopp with £150m.

Firmino keeps suprising me just how good he is. The perfect foil for Mane/Salah either side. He's a joy to watch when he's on form.

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I’d disagree that City play better than us now. They are fairly one dimensional trying to pass the ball into the net or the occasional shot. Liverpool have more offensive weapons now which is why we have been so potent. Teams don’t know how to combat us because we have so many different outlets to play.

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Originally Posted By Pickles
I’d disagree that City play better than us now. They are fairly one dimensional trying to pass the ball into the net or the occasional shot. Liverpool have more offensive weapons now which is why we have been so potent. Teams don’t know how to combat us because we have so many different outlets to play.


I would rather say City plays better attacking football than us but are nowhere near our defensive football, therefore as a whole, we are better than them to win games. They are like us when we almost won the league under Rodgers or even in Klopp's first full season, but football is not only about attack it's about the right balance.

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Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By Pickles
I’d disagree that City play better than us now. They are fairly one dimensional trying to pass the ball into the net or the occasional shot. Liverpool have more offensive weapons now which is why we have been so potent. Teams don’t know how to combat us because we have so many different outlets to play.


I would rather say City plays better attacking football than us but are nowhere near our defensive football, therefore as a whole, we are better than them to win games. They are like us when we almost won the league under Rodgers or even in Klopp's first full season, but football is not only about attack it's about the right balance.


Totally agree. I miss those games under Rodgers in a way. We were playing breathtaking stuff in attack. Probably better than we are now but look how we manage games now. Even when we are not playing well we don't look like getting beaten.

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Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By Pickles
I’d disagree that City play better than us now. They are fairly one dimensional trying to pass the ball into the net or the occasional shot. Liverpool have more offensive weapons now which is why we have been so potent. Teams don’t know how to combat us because we have so many different outlets to play.


I would rather say City plays better attacking football than us but are nowhere near our defensive football, therefore as a whole, we are better than them to win games. They are like us when we almost won the league under Rodgers or even in Klopp's first full season, but football is not only about attack it's about the right balance.


Totally agree. I miss those games under Rodgers in a way. We were playing breathtaking stuff in attack. Probably better than we are now but look how we manage games now. Even when we are not playing well we don't look like getting beaten.


Similar to Fergys teams, always dogged at the back and gave little away, knowing a piece of magic from the likes of Giggs/Van Nistelrooy/Scholes could win them the game and they would hold out, strong teams defensively will always win a league compared to a flamboyant high scoring team that concedes allot.

Rodgers team was great to watch, but I always had that nagging feeling that they could not hold out and kill off games, which you need to do to win leagues.

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City's play is easy on the eye but they have no plan B.

Liverpool are much more potent on set pieces.

Liverpool are much more potent from the wings with Robbo and TAA's crossing.

Liverpool can play it through the middle with the likes of Bobby's link up play.

Liverpool can go over the top with many players now in the team able to hit accurate exocet passes from distance...Alisson, VVD, Gomez, TAA, Robbo, Hendo, Fabinho, Ox and I've even been impressed with some of Lovren's passing long this season.

Alisson is now the supreme ball playing Keeper, much better than Ederson.

Liverpool are a much better, dangerous attacking outfit than Man City are, they have more ways to win.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By Pickles
I’d disagree that City play better than us now. They are fairly one dimensional trying to pass the ball into the net or the occasional shot. Liverpool have more offensive weapons now which is why we have been so potent. Teams don’t know how to combat us because we have so many different outlets to play.


I would rather say City plays better attacking football than us but are nowhere near our defensive football, therefore as a whole, we are better than them to win games. They are like us when we almost won the league under Rodgers or even in Klopp's first full season, but football is not only about attack it's about the right balance.


Totally agree. I miss those games under Rodgers in a way. We were playing breathtaking stuff in attack. Probably better than we are now but look how we manage games now. Even when we are not playing well we don't look like getting beaten.


Similar to Fergys teams, always dogged at the back and gave little away, knowing a piece of magic from the likes of Giggs/Van Nistelrooy/Scholes could win them the game and they would hold out, strong teams defensively will always win a league compared to a flamboyant high scoring team that concedes allot.

Rodgers team was great to watch, but I always had that nagging feeling that they could not hold out and kill off games, which you need to do to win leagues.

Yes defence was always Rodgers Achilles heel and eventually led to his departure. It's all about the right balance, any imbalance will be identified, targeted and punished. Klopp to his credit has it spot on at present, but in my opinion needs to add a player or two to strengthen the squad, especially at fullback position.

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Originally Posted By Pickles
City's play is easy on the eye but they have no plan B.

Liverpool are much more potent on set pieces.

Liverpool are much more potent from the wings with Robbo and TAA's crossing.

Liverpool can play it through the middle with the likes of Bobby's link up play.

Liverpool can go over the top with many players now in the team able to hit accurate exocet passes from distance...Alisson, VVD, Gomez, TAA, Robbo, Hendo, Fabinho, Ox and I've even been impressed with some of Lovren's passing long this season.

Alisson is now the supreme ball playing Keeper, much better than Ederson.

Liverpool are a much better, dangerous attacking outfit than Man City are, they have more ways to win.


City can be very reliant on individual players, like Aguero, he has dug them out of so many games the last few seasons, like last night, Jesus is a good player, but doesn't carry that same threat, until Aguero came on City were struggling to win. Sterling has been quiet the last few weeks and City have struggled, though Mahrez has done well, they have really missed Sane, another player they relied on allot last season to dig them out from the bench.

We have less reliance on individuals, if Salah or Firmino are struggling, Mane can get a goal, same with the others, City seem to have games when all play well and hammer teams 5-0, but if they are not all playing well together, they can struggle to get a 1-0 win, La Porte being back will make them allot stronger now.

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Originally Posted By ecnirp98
Originally Posted By Pickles
City's play is easy on the eye but they have no plan B.

Liverpool are much more potent on set pieces.

Liverpool are much more potent from the wings with Robbo and TAA's crossing.

Liverpool can play it through the middle with the likes of Bobby's link up play.

Liverpool can go over the top with many players now in the team able to hit accurate exocet passes from distance...Alisson, VVD, Gomez, TAA, Robbo, Hendo, Fabinho, Ox and I've even been impressed with some of Lovren's passing long this season.

Alisson is now the supreme ball playing Keeper, much better than Ederson.

Liverpool are a much better, dangerous attacking outfit than Man City are, they have more ways to win.


City can be very reliant on individual players, like Aguero, he has dug them out of so many games the last few seasons, like last night, Jesus is a good player, but doesn't carry that same threat, until Aguero came on City were struggling to win. Sterling has been quiet the last few weeks and City have struggled, though Mahrez has done well, they have really missed Sane, another player they relied on allot last season to dig them out from the bench.

We have less reliance on individuals, if Salah or Firmino are struggling, Mane can get a goal, same with the others, City seem to have games when all play well and hammer teams 5-0, but if they are not all playing well together, they can struggle to get a 1-0 win, La Porte being back will make them allot stronger now.




Don't think their problem has been scoring goals, they are well ahead of everyone in that stats, it has been their goals conceded which has been the problem, they are only 4th in the league on that

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Agree with pickles on that we play and score and win in different ways. When I said City plays "better" football I meant prettier football, they never ever hit the ball long even when their defence/midfield is under pressure. We are around 6th in the league for long balls because I think Klopp figured that's one of the fastest ways to get the ball forward before oppositions park the bus.

Overall, our results are unmatched because we are able to sometimes sacrifice style for results. City without Laporte are unable to grind out tough wins. They will also struggle against teams like Wolves which elevate their game against the big boys and work hard.

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