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#628479 - 21/10/19 04:57 PM VAR in the EPL
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Looks to me that the league using the VAR the least effectively is the EPL. The possibility to check on the monitor has been given to refs but they haven't used it a single time. I thought there was no monitor for the ref in the stadium, but just found out it is there. They should go every time the VAR refs tell them there is an incident, as it was in the WC and other leagues. Are they thinking too highly of themselves or what, ie, they cannot make mistakes? Appalling

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#628485 - 21/10/19 06:17 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
AccaBoosty Offline
Under 23 Player

Registered: 23/11/11
Posts: 3222
Totally agree. They are hiding behind VAR hoping it will back them up. At the end of the day they are still in charge yet they are relying on someone else watching it to make a decision when they can watch the exact same footage themselves on a monitor and have a second stab at it. For years we have all been armchair referees and have had the benefit of replays. Even then we have to say we get it wrong first time, then right then wrong again.

I think what they are scared of is getting it wrong twice. Once on the pitch and once at the monitor.

The number of VAR issues on Saturday were ridiculous and this needs sorting out.

As much as I do not like VAR if we are going to have it then use it properly.

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#628498 - 22/10/19 01:39 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
elimmel Offline
Under 18 Player

Registered: 29/06/09
Posts: 739
Classic example of passing the buck and nothing gets done. Ref plays on leaving it to VAR and VAR, with their high bar, leaves it to the ref.
Only clear cut cases will be offsides and handball in the box.

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#628529 - 23/10/19 06:51 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
kernowred Offline
Under 23 Player

Registered: 25/10/09
Posts: 1835
Loc: the pasty capital.
so many more negatives than positives with VAR.the refs just need to be better.they wont but i think they should ditch it.

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#628532 - 23/10/19 07:57 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
The Kop Prophet Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 21/05/18
Posts: 271
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.

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#628537 - 24/10/19 02:38 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: The Kop Prophet]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


VAR is not supposed to overturn a decision, it was always said that the ref will take the final decision. However, they should go and check the bloody monitor. That said, it is still better having it than not even now, at least for the offside decisions which is very difficult to judge without technology.

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#628539 - 24/10/19 07:51 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
Oli Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 14/09/16
Posts: 252
Loc: Iceland
When i was at Old Trafford for the United game there was this one Icelander who lost it when we equalized and celebrated like crazy. He was thrown out but at that point it still had not been confirmed that it was a legal goal. So he could have been thrown out for not even a goal. It kills the real sensation and joy to wait 3, 4 maybe 5 minutes to know if it was worth celebrating or not.

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#628542 - 24/10/19 11:52 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
elimmel Offline
Under 18 Player

Registered: 29/06/09
Posts: 739
Heard this comment from one of the match commentators that VAR high bar excuse is just being used by the ref band of brothers protecting themselves.
It certainly feels that way to me.

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#628547 - 24/10/19 01:19 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: kernowred]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By kernowred
so many more negatives than positives with VAR.the refs just need to be better.they wont but i think they should ditch it.


There is no reason to ditch it as all mistakes would have stayed anyway without VAR and on top of that corrected mistakes like offsides and handballs would not have been overturned. They just need to check on the monitor whenever there are controversial decisions, as it is done in all other leagues and tournament. You shouldn't throw the baby with the his bath. It's true that not all mistakes will be corrected and views will differ, but at least there will be a significant improvement.

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#628548 - 24/10/19 01:20 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: Oli]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By Oli
When i was at Old Trafford for the United game there was this one Icelander who lost it when we equalized and celebrated like crazy. He was thrown out but at that point it still had not been confirmed that it was a legal goal. So he could have been thrown out for not even a goal. It kills the real sensation and joy to wait 3, 4 maybe 5 minutes to know if it was worth celebrating or not.


It's like that in other sports, was watching the rugby WC and nobody complains about it as it makes the game fairer. Without it Wales wouldn't have won as the French player would have stayed on the field


Edited by EnergisedReds (24/10/19 01:21 PM)

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#628552 - 24/10/19 01:47 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
elimmel Offline
Under 18 Player

Registered: 29/06/09
Posts: 739
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10


Edited by elimmel (24/10/19 01:47 PM)

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#628554 - 24/10/19 02:28 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: elimmel]
Hercules/AF 58 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 8503
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.

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#628562 - 24/10/19 04:49 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: Hercules/AF 58]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.


Injuries slows things even more and as often, should those be scrapped as well? In rugby they do it even more, the only thing is that it should be communicated and the screen watched by the public, it will be as interesting as the game.

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#628569 - 24/10/19 06:16 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: Hercules/AF 58]
AccaBoosty Offline
Under 23 Player

Registered: 23/11/11
Posts: 3222
Originally Posted By Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.


Yes I understand what you are saying but when VAR is new and we look at the experience of the referee Atkinson against that of the VAR official we are talking about 15 years in PL v 15 games in the PL. Given that level of experience difference we are not going to get much reversed unless the man in the middle can own up to his error.

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#628571 - 24/10/19 06:48 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: AccaBoosty]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.


Yes I understand what you are saying but when VAR is new and we look at the experience of the referee Atkinson against that of the VAR official we are talking about 15 years in PL v 15 games in the PL. Given that level of experience difference we are not going to get much reversed unless the man in the middle can own up to his error.


Carra used virtual reality to show that the ref didn't see the foul

https://youtu.be/LRDmbMPKzRE

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#628575 - 24/10/19 09:18 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
wilkij1975 Online   content
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 26/06/09
Posts: 21887
Loc: Northamptonshire
Best get that introduced into the game too then.

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#628576 - 24/10/19 10:53 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
The Kop Prophet Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 21/05/18
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


VAR is not supposed to overturn a decision, it was always said that the ref will take the final decision. However, they should go and check the bloody monitor. That said, it is still better having it than not even now, at least for the offside decisions which is very difficult to judge without technology.


VAR should overturn what is wrong. If a ref's handball or offside decision can be correct - then so should their goal and penalty decisions. It's all or nothing.

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#628577 - 24/10/19 10:54 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: Hercules/AF 58]
The Kop Prophet Offline
Under 16 Player

Registered: 21/05/18
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.


Because they invested thousands in pitch side monitors.... why put them there and not use them?

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#628578 - 25/10/19 02:38 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: The Kop Prophet]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


VAR is not supposed to overturn a decision, it was always said that the ref will take the final decision. However, they should go and check the bloody monitor. That said, it is still better having it than not even now, at least for the offside decisions which is very difficult to judge without technology.


VAR should overturn what is wrong. If a ref's handball or offside decision can be correct - then so should their goal and penalty decisions. It's all or nothing.


Fouls are not always clear cut compared to offsides, goals and even handballs, thus could be open to interpretation. As such, the principle is for the main ref to decide. I am not against leaving it to the VAR refs, anyway they could even had a quick vote like in boxing if they don't all agree, but from day 1, it was said that the final decision is for the main ref, he just needs to move his ass and check on the monitor. The slowing down of the game is not a big issue, games are stopped for injuries, sometimes fake, you just need to get the crowd interested by showing on the big screens. The problem is while waiting nothing seems to happen.


Edited by EnergisedReds (25/10/19 02:39 AM)

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#628580 - 25/10/19 11:43 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
AccaBoosty Offline
Under 23 Player

Registered: 23/11/11
Posts: 3222
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


VAR is not supposed to overturn a decision, it was always said that the ref will take the final decision. However, they should go and check the bloody monitor. That said, it is still better having it than not even now, at least for the offside decisions which is very difficult to judge without technology.


VAR should overturn what is wrong. If a ref's handball or offside decision can be correct - then so should their goal and penalty decisions. It's all or nothing.


Fouls are not always clear cut compared to offsides, goals and even handballs, thus could be open to interpretation. As such, the principle is for the main ref to decide. I am not against leaving it to the VAR refs, anyway they could even had a quick vote like in boxing if they don't all agree, but from day 1, it was said that the final decision is for the main ref, he just needs to move his ass and check on the monitor. The slowing down of the game is not a big issue, games are stopped for injuries, sometimes fake, you just need to get the crowd interested by showing on the big screens. The problem is while waiting nothing seems to happen.



Yes decision should always lie with the officials on the pitch. Rugby League has done this almost perfectly. Rugby Union is not far behind. Cricket decisions are made by the third umpire but in most cases that is an extremely experienced official using technology that gets better each year. The non use of the technology (not using the screens) by the person in charge (the man in the middle) is what is infuriating people.

They need to set a date. Say, 1st Jan, and start using the stuff at their disposal. Between now and then perhaps they should undergo some more training to incorporate it into the game.

With the new rules this season such as;

Players being subbed going off at nearest point.

No attacking players in a defensive wall.

Ball hits ref it's a uncontested drop ball etc.etc.

Is it possible that not enough training has gone into VAR and all the help available to make the right decisions?

I will always hate VAR but if everything is being seen to be done perhaps I can learn to accept it a bit more. The current set up is spoiling the enjoyment not only of watching it but also programmes where match updates are being relayed to the masses on a Saturday afternoon on TV and the commentators cannot fathom what is going on either.



Edited by AccaBoosty (25/10/19 11:44 AM)

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#628583 - 25/10/19 02:31 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: The Kop Prophet]
redordead13 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 8458
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


100% correct. I have no idea why in this country the ref's ego or standing has to be a factor. Refs should not be famous. They should do their job and call the games. That's it.

Whether the ref is being "undermined" is not a factor. The rules exist for a fair game, and the rules should be enforced fairly and correctly. I watch a lot of Serie A, MLS, and the Bundesliga, and VAR works fine there. The English FA, as usual, is being a bunch of dinosaurs, afraid of stepping on their ref chummies' toes. It's ludicrous.

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#628993 - 07/11/19 07:05 AM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: redordead13]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By redordead13
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


100% correct. I have no idea why in this country the ref's ego or standing has to be a factor. Refs should not be famous. They should do their job and call the games. That's it.

Whether the ref is being "undermined" is not a factor. The rules exist for a fair game, and the rules should be enforced fairly and correctly. I watch a lot of Serie A, MLS, and the Bundesliga, and VAR works fine there. The English FA, as usual, is being a bunch of dinosaurs, afraid of stepping on their ref chummies' toes. It's ludicrous.


Watching the City game against Atlanta and the use of VAR is much much better and the ref takes complete responsibility by going to check himself the penalty decision. The EPL refs should learn

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#629008 - 07/11/19 02:59 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: AccaBoosty]
Hercules/AF 58 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 8503
Originally Posted By AccaBoosty
Originally Posted By Hercules/AF 58
Originally Posted By elimmel
Yes and the monitors are there. But not one ref went to view it and we’re heading into match week 10

Why should the ref's employ a dog and then bark themselves? Surely they can rely on those already employed reading and scrutinising the monitors?
VAR slows things up enough as it is, without the ref's trundling off to view a monitor when he has the relevant information already in his ear.


Yes I understand what you are saying but when VAR is new and we look at the experience of the referee Atkinson against that of the VAR official we are talking about 15 years in PL v 15 games in the PL. Given that level of experience difference we are not going to get much reversed unless the man in the middle can own up to his error.

Yes I can see the point there. What I don't understand is how Atkinson got to be in charge of the Var, given his well known decisions where Liverpool is concerned?

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#629015 - 07/11/19 03:37 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: EnergisedReds]
redordead13 Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 8458
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By redordead13
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


100% correct. I have no idea why in this country the ref's ego or standing has to be a factor. Refs should not be famous. They should do their job and call the games. That's it.

Whether the ref is being "undermined" is not a factor. The rules exist for a fair game, and the rules should be enforced fairly and correctly. I watch a lot of Serie A, MLS, and the Bundesliga, and VAR works fine there. The English FA, as usual, is being a bunch of dinosaurs, afraid of stepping on their ref chummies' toes. It's ludicrous.


Watching the City game against Atlanta and the use of VAR is much much better and the ref takes complete responsibility by going to check himself the penalty decision. The EPL refs should learn


MLS teams are in the UCL now? wink

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#629019 - 07/11/19 05:39 PM Re: VAR in the EPL [Re: redordead13]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20670
Originally Posted By redordead13
Originally Posted By EnergisedReds
Originally Posted By redordead13
Originally Posted By The Kop Prophet
It's really quite simple. Just correct every wrong call - that's it! No need to worry about embarrassing the ref - no other sport does. So far, we use VAR to get every single handball right, every single fractional offside right.... but it's been absolutely useless at overturning the ref's wrong decisions on pens and goals. So what's the point? If incorrect decisions are allowed to stand - or the refs can't be bothered to check the monitors - or we can't overturn anything a ref has called that leads to a pen or a goal then there's no point having it at all.

VAR is fine - the way we use it is moronic.


100% correct. I have no idea why in this country the ref's ego or standing has to be a factor. Refs should not be famous. They should do their job and call the games. That's it.

Whether the ref is being "undermined" is not a factor. The rules exist for a fair game, and the rules should be enforced fairly and correctly. I watch a lot of Serie A, MLS, and the Bundesliga, and VAR works fine there. The English FA, as usual, is being a bunch of dinosaurs, afraid of stepping on their ref chummies' toes. It's ludicrous.


Watching the City game against Atlanta and the use of VAR is much much better and the ref takes complete responsibility by going to check himself the penalty decision. The EPL refs should learn


MLS teams are in the UCL now? wink


Ok Atalanta

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