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#627202 - 07/09/19 08:04 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
wilkij1975 Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 26/06/09
Posts: 21899
Loc: Northamptonshire
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I think people are missing the point of the orginal post. I can understand fully why shaggy can't understand and it's not fair to ask him to.

However for the rest this is not about the pros and cons of brexit this is about the changes the establishment has done to stop brexit as described in OP.

These are changes to our Democratic processes that no one voted for and have largely been carried out by stealth


Democracy is a real bitch when it doesn't go your way.

Also I understand your anger. I would be annoyed if I discovered I was sold a lie.


Is that like when we voted to leave and now remainers are doing their best to stop it? Yeah, democracy is a bitch.

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#627203 - 07/09/19 08:09 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
wilkij1975 Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 26/06/09
Posts: 21899
Loc: Northamptonshire
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
So are you saying it's OK to implement something that people didn't know they were voting for?

Again, the problem is that your PM is a liar who can't be trusted by the opposition.

You do know that that tories are talking about entering into an electoral pact with Farage.

Also they only formed the current government after entering into a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP


How do you know what people voted for? I know plenty of leavers whoíd be happy with a no deal so they obviously knew. I know a few who want a deal. I know a lot of remain voters, myself included, who are utterly disillusioned and angry at this cropnof clowns for not getting us out.

Itís easy for remoaners to say people didnít know what they were voting for because itís easier for them to justify trying to over turn a democratic vote in the name of democracy. Like youíve said, democracy is a bitch when it donít go your way.

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#627204 - 07/09/19 08:17 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: wilkij1975]
EMP Offline
1st Team Squad

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 9149
Loc: Eire
Sorry the northern irish issue is just too complicated and sensitive to just let english democracy destroy it. Proper proposals are essential and obviously needed fast.

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#627205 - 07/09/19 08:54 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: wilkij1975]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I think people are missing the point of the orginal post. I can understand fully why shaggy can't understand and it's not fair to ask him to.

However for the rest this is not about the pros and cons of brexit this is about the changes the establishment has done to stop brexit as described in OP.

These are changes to our Democratic processes that no one voted for and have largely been carried out by stealth


Democracy is a real bitch when it doesn't go your way.

Also I understand your anger. I would be annoyed if I discovered I was sold a lie.


Is that like when we voted to leave and now remainers are doing their best to stop it? Yeah, democracy is a bitch.


Many of those tories who voted against Bojo this week voted for May's deal. Bojo voted against May's Withdrawal deal twice. He then voted for her deal. That's the same deal he now wants to renegotiate. Clear as mud.

So who was trying to block the UK leaving the EU on those occasions when Bojo and the others were voting against May's deal? Who was doing their best to stop the UK leaving the EU then. The hypocrisy is breathtaking

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#627206 - 07/09/19 09:01 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: wilkij1975]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
So are you saying it's OK to implement something that people didn't know they were voting for?

Again, the problem is that your PM is a liar who can't be trusted by the opposition.

You do know that that tories are talking about entering into an electoral pact with Farage.

Also they only formed the current government after entering into a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP


How do you know what people voted for? I know plenty of leavers whoíd be happy with a no deal so they obviously knew. I know a few who want a deal. I know a lot of remain voters, myself included, who are utterly disillusioned and angry at this cropnof clowns for not getting us out.

Itís easy for remoaners to say people didnít know what they were voting for because itís easier for them to justify trying to over turn a democratic vote in the name of democracy. Like youíve said, democracy is a bitch when it donít go your way.


Apparently you seem to know what people voted for. After all you did say "Knowingly or not, people voted to leave without a deal".

People,who voted leave were assured by Gove and Bojo among others that there would be a deal. (see quotes elsewhere)

By the way it was you who first suggested that people didn't know what they were voting for. (See your quote above)

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#627207 - 07/09/19 09:02 PM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
I see Rudd has found her conscience.

Better late than ever I suppose.

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#627208 - 08/09/19 04:01 AM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
EnergisedReds Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 20689
Cabinet minister resigns, I think at this pace it would be easier to call the Tory party the Brexit party...But wait a minute, that brand is already taken by Farage. The new episodes is getting better, I think getting the PM jailed for not obeying the law will be the next high point.


Edited by EnergisedReds (08/09/19 04:02 AM)

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#627209 - 08/09/19 09:23 AM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
wilkij1975 Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 26/06/09
Posts: 21899
Loc: Northamptonshire
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
I think people are missing the point of the orginal post. I can understand fully why shaggy can't understand and it's not fair to ask him to.

However for the rest this is not about the pros and cons of brexit this is about the changes the establishment has done to stop brexit as described in OP.

These are changes to our Democratic processes that no one voted for and have largely been carried out by stealth


Democracy is a real bitch when it doesn't go your way.

Also I understand your anger. I would be annoyed if I discovered I was sold a lie.


Is that like when we voted to leave and now remainers are doing their best to stop it? Yeah, democracy is a bitch.


Many of those tories who voted against Bojo this week voted for May's deal. Bojo voted against May's Withdrawal deal twice. He then voted for her deal. That's the same deal he now wants to renegotiate. Clear as mud.

So who was trying to block the UK leaving the EU on those occasions when Bojo and the others were voting against May's deal? Who was doing their best to stop the UK leaving the EU then. The hypocrisy is breathtaking


As I e said before. I hold ALL of them with the highest contempt. That includes BoJo.

Top

#627210 - 08/09/19 09:27 AM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: Shaggydog]
wilkij1975 Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 26/06/09
Posts: 21899
Loc: Northamptonshire
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
Originally Posted By wilkij1975
Originally Posted By Shaggydog
So are you saying it's OK to implement something that people didn't know they were voting for?

Again, the problem is that your PM is a liar who can't be trusted by the opposition.

You do know that that tories are talking about entering into an electoral pact with Farage.

Also they only formed the current government after entering into a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP


How do you know what people voted for? I know plenty of leavers whoíd be happy with a no deal so they obviously knew. I know a few who want a deal. I know a lot of remain voters, myself included, who are utterly disillusioned and angry at this cropnof clowns for not getting us out.

Itís easy for remoaners to say people didnít know what they were voting for because itís easier for them to justify trying to over turn a democratic vote in the name of democracy. Like youíve said, democracy is a bitch when it donít go your way.


Apparently you seem to know what people voted for. After all you did say "Knowingly or not, people voted to leave without a deal".

People,who voted leave were assured by Gove and Bojo among others that there would be a deal. (see quotes elsewhere)

By the way it was you who first suggested that people didn't know what they were voting for. (See your quote above)


I get an idea from travelling and meeting people in my country. Mainly through work or other work colleagues who all knew what they were voting for. Some want a deal some don't. Some wanted to remain. But ALL to a man and woman want it sorted in whatever way possible. Even a no deal is better than this nonsense.

And yes we know leave campaign lied. Thatís nothing new and no real shocker from politicians. Your man Steptoe also lies as he said heíd respect the result. I suppose heíll do that only when he thinks he can win an election? And there wouldíve been a deal by now if they ALL had stopped playing politics with this.

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#627211 - 08/09/19 11:20 AM Re: British democracy dead and buried [Re: wilkij1975]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 26436
Loc: Not the EU
Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances addressed but are yourselves become the greatest grievance

Oliver Cromwell 1653

The dates may change but the situation doesn't 400 years on. In thÚse days parlŪament was a drunken mess consisting of Lords who looked after their own personal interests and regarded the ordinary people as sub human. Not really massively different today is it ?
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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