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paul66 #614709 12/12/18 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted By paul66
Originally Posted By Mr Bojangles
I don't think achterberg is great. He's only had a few games with alisson.

Mignolet looked good at the start. Saved a pen against stoke on his debut.

Karius was confident at the start.

Pepe Reina was quite good until achterberg hot him.



You don't think he is great? And now we should be expecting Allison to turn out crap. Got ya.


Yeah that's not what I said but you do you

Pickles #614710 12/12/18 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Pickles
Show me "1" GoalKeeper that John Achterberg has improved?

You surely cannot credit Achterberg for Alisson who was bought already at the height of his game for 67 million. Let's not forget that Alisson does not know Achterberg's pigeon English yet, so the chances are "if" Alisson does pay any attention to Achterberg's sh#tty coaching in the future we may yet see the all too familiar dip in yet another one of our current Keepers' consistency!

The following is a post I made from a previous thread...since then Karius famously, single handidly lost us a CL Final and has been disposed of on loan, whilst Danny Ward has been sold and we've appointed yet another GoalKeeping Consultant to work alongside Achterberg:

Since the summer of 2011 when John Achterberg was promoted from Goalkeeping coach of the reserve and Academy Goalkeepers to First-Team Goalkeeping Coach, there hasn't been a season where our Goalkeeping Department has not had the finger of blame pointed at them.

Bruce Grobbelaar, Liverpool legend, has also called into question the credibility of Achterberg in the past and the evidence that Achterberg may not be the man for the job seems to pile up.

Let’s take Mignolet for example. Mignolet won Belgian goalkeeper of the year in 2009 when he was only 21, a very impressive accolade. Even when he played for Sunderland, he was considered a very exciting player and one of the best shot-stoppers in the league but since then, he’s not really improved in his years at the club. In fact, most people now say he’s been very disappointing for Liverpool.

And now let’s take Reina...just confirmed his move from Napoli, where he had been consistently good, to AC Milan. Funny how the man we got to replace the “declining” Reina, and the man we got to replace the man that replaced Reina, are both currently not playing as good as the man we got rid of years ago. Funny how things turn out. Strangely, Reina only had his dip in form when Achterberg was appointed.

Now let’s take Brad Jones. Brad Jones had been at Liverpool for a respectable amount of time, but never did he seem like a fantastic player. Now playing for Feyenoord in the Netherlands, he won the award for best goalkeeper in 2016 in his 1st season with them, Jones kept his 14th clean sheet of that season, in the process becoming the first Feyernoord goalkeeper to achieve the milestone since Ed de Goey twenty years earlier! Feyenoord went on to win the 2016–17 Eredivisie, with Jones keeping 17 clean sheets in the club's first title in 18 years. On April 22, 2018 he played as Feyenoord won the 2017/18 KNVB Cup final 3-0 against AZ Alkmaar.

Another...Peter Gulacsi...we signed in 2008 as a raw 18 year old who we eventually let go free to Red Bull Salzburg in 2013 and then signed for sister club RB Leipzig in 2015. Since the RB Leipzig have done wonders since they were only founded in 2009. Gulacsi helped them reach the Bundesliga top tier in his first season On 8 May 2016, RB Leipzig ensured promotion to the Bundesliga for the 2016–17 season with a 2–0 win over Karlsruher SC. One year later, RB Leipzig captured a place in the 2017–18 UEFA Champions League by finishing as runners-up of the Bundesliga. Gulácsi was selected as the best goalkeeper of the autumn part of the 2017–18 Bundesliga season by the German sport magazine Kicker. Again who would have known Gulacsi had it in him?

And now let’s take Liverpool’s newest scapegoat, Loris Karius!
It’s fair to say some of his mistakes have been shocking. But these mistakes seem to be hugely uncharacteristic of him from his performances from his last year in the Bundesliga 15/16.
A player who featured in the team of the season and was voted second best goalkeeper by his fellow professionals in a poll of 235 fellow Bundesliga players, at the age of 22, doesn’t suddenly lose the ability to save a shot. Yet here we are! Yes, it could be down to severe lack of confidence or even adjusting to a new league and team, but maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the goalkeeping coach?

Zeljko Buvac (Remember that Fella?) Klopp's No 2 up until recently had a huge bust up with Achterberg after Chelsea’s equaliser, that he couldn’t actually speak to our goalkeeper coach, claims Paul Joyce in the Times. The Bosnian Serb blamed the Dutchman for Willian’s goal when the Brazilian lobbed Simon Mignolet with a chip with sub Adam Lallana waiting to come on in the 1 v 1 draw v Chelsea in November. According to the respected journalist, Buvac blamed Achterberg for not getting Adam Lallana on the field quick enough, with the Dutchman responsible for liaising with the 4th official and confirming Liverpool’s substitutions.

Joyce wrote:
“The mix-up prompted a heated response from Zeljko Buvac, the Liverpool assistant manager, who was furious with John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach, at the failure to get Lallana on to the pitch.

“And he exploded in another rage when Chelsea equalised two minutes later and refused to speak to Achterberg, who liaises with the fourth official over substitutions, when Liverpool made a double change soon after, with Lallana and Sadio Mané eventually thrown on.”

Lallana was waiting on the sideline for minutes before his eventual introduction, with Klopp suggesting his arrival would have changed our formation to a back-five which could have hopefully defended Willian’s fluke-cross a little better.

Achterberg won’t have went home feeling especially good on Saturday night, with his keeper Mignolet lobbed for the equaliser as well.

Probably as a result of this in February the club decided to bring in a Goalkeeping Consultant - According to former Austria no.1 Helge Payer, Hans Leitert is currently working with Liverpool to help the first-team goalkeepers.

Leitert runs a GK consultancy firm and clinic, having published a book called “The Art Of Goalkeeping Or The Seven Principles Of The Masters,” while holding a Masters degree in Sport Science. He usually works with clubs under Red Bull’s ownership, but is spending time at Liverpool sharing some wisdom. This went under the radar, but doesn't augur well if we are having to Coach the Coaches!

Since Reina left, all of our goalkeepers have been poor. I didn’t include Bogdan in the list, but did I really have to? John Achterberg is the last remaining member of backroom staff from during the Brendan Rodgers era, the rest having been replaced by Klopp’s staff.

Achterberg was a cheap option at a time FSG were trimming the fat off the top for their "fiscal responsibility brainwashing" and maybe it’s time for him to leave before he sullies the next big hope with gloves that comes in this summer?

With Achterberg as 1st Team Goalkeeping Coach:

11/12 Season GA 40
12/13 Season GA 43
13/14 Season GA 50
14/15 Season GA 48
15/16 Season GA 50
16/17 Season GA 42
17/18 Season GA 38

Avg 44.43 Goals Allowed per season.

Before Achterberg:

10/11 Season GA 44
09/10 Season GA 35
08/09 Season GA 27
07/08 Season GA 28
06/07 Season GA 27
05/06 Season GA 25

Avg 31 Goals Allowed per season.

http://www.koptalk.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/604352/1.html





Show me one keeper that was good enough in the first place.

So you’re expecting Allison to turn to poo then?

paul66 #614711 12/12/18 02:43 PM
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Alisson is obviously amazing. Without achterberg.

wilkij1975 #614712 12/12/18 02:44 PM
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Achterberg has had a hand in recognizing / suggesting GoalKeepers to bring to the club and has ultimately had the task of Coaching them. We have gone through GoalKeepers like disposable handkerchiefs in Achterberg's time at the club. The fact folks don't want to realise the Guy is just not up to the job is sad. I am a fan which allows me to be a critic of the blatant problems we endure and Achterberg is a big problem.

I sincerely hope Alisson doesn't turn out to be poo but I can't have any faith whatsoever in the man tasked to Coach him, judged on his previous experience with us.

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Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By paul66
Has Achterberg gone from Liverpool.... Because according to many bright sparks on here he was the main reason all our keepers were [oops]. Answers on a postcard please


The Pickles is best placed to answer that, he follows Achterberg very closely. However, looks like he is following Hendo more these days.


Henderson is a middle of the road premier league player, we are Liverpool FC an elite premier league club.

Question for you Vish..."Do you think Henderson would play regularly at any of the other Top 6 Premier League Clubs as it stands"?

The fact Henderson is Captain would suggest he is considered our most important player, however there is an obvious disconnect currently with this because he does't play every important game for us!

Does Hendersons' current standing within the squad deserve him to be Captain?

Pickles #614715 12/12/18 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted By Pickles
Show me "1" GoalKeeper that John Achterberg has improved?

You surely cannot credit Achterberg for Alisson who was bought already at the height of his game for 67 million. Let's not forget that Alisson does not know Achterberg's pigeon English yet, so the chances are "if" Alisson does pay any attention to Achterberg's sh#tty coaching in the future we may yet see the all too familiar dip in yet another one of our current Keepers' consistency!

The following is a post I made from a previous thread...since then Karius famously, single handidly lost us a CL Final and has been disposed of on loan, whilst Danny Ward has been sold and we've appointed yet another GoalKeeping Consultant to work alongside Achterberg:

Since the summer of 2011 when John Achterberg was promoted from Goalkeeping coach of the reserve and Academy Goalkeepers to First-Team Goalkeeping Coach, there hasn't been a season where our Goalkeeping Department has not had the finger of blame pointed at them.

Bruce Grobbelaar, Liverpool legend, has also called into question the credibility of Achterberg in the past and the evidence that Achterberg may not be the man for the job seems to pile up.

Let’s take Mignolet for example. Mignolet won Belgian goalkeeper of the year in 2009 when he was only 21, a very impressive accolade. Even when he played for Sunderland, he was considered a very exciting player and one of the best shot-stoppers in the league but since then, he’s not really improved in his years at the club. In fact, most people now say he’s been very disappointing for Liverpool.

And now let’s take Reina...just confirmed his move from Napoli, where he had been consistently good, to AC Milan. Funny how the man we got to replace the “declining” Reina, and the man we got to replace the man that replaced Reina, are both currently not playing as good as the man we got rid of years ago. Funny how things turn out. Strangely, Reina only had his dip in form when Achterberg was appointed.

Now let’s take Brad Jones. Brad Jones had been at Liverpool for a respectable amount of time, but never did he seem like a fantastic player. Now playing for Feyenoord in the Netherlands, he won the award for best goalkeeper in 2016 in his 1st season with them, Jones kept his 14th clean sheet of that season, in the process becoming the first Feyernoord goalkeeper to achieve the milestone since Ed de Goey twenty years earlier! Feyenoord went on to win the 2016–17 Eredivisie, with Jones keeping 17 clean sheets in the club's first title in 18 years. On April 22, 2018 he played as Feyenoord won the 2017/18 KNVB Cup final 3-0 against AZ Alkmaar.

Another...Peter Gulacsi...we signed in 2008 as a raw 18 year old who we eventually let go free to Red Bull Salzburg in 2013 and then signed for sister club RB Leipzig in 2015. Since the RB Leipzig have done wonders since they were only founded in 2009. Gulacsi helped them reach the Bundesliga top tier in his first season On 8 May 2016, RB Leipzig ensured promotion to the Bundesliga for the 2016–17 season with a 2–0 win over Karlsruher SC. One year later, RB Leipzig captured a place in the 2017–18 UEFA Champions League by finishing as runners-up of the Bundesliga. Gulácsi was selected as the best goalkeeper of the autumn part of the 2017–18 Bundesliga season by the German sport magazine Kicker. Again who would have known Gulacsi had it in him?

And now let’s take Liverpool’s newest scapegoat, Loris Karius!
It’s fair to say some of his mistakes have been shocking. But these mistakes seem to be hugely uncharacteristic of him from his performances from his last year in the Bundesliga 15/16.
A player who featured in the team of the season and was voted second best goalkeeper by his fellow professionals in a poll of 235 fellow Bundesliga players, at the age of 22, doesn’t suddenly lose the ability to save a shot. Yet here we are! Yes, it could be down to severe lack of confidence or even adjusting to a new league and team, but maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the goalkeeping coach?

Zeljko Buvac (Remember that Fella?) Klopp's No 2 up until recently had a huge bust up with Achterberg after Chelsea’s equaliser, that he couldn’t actually speak to our goalkeeper coach, claims Paul Joyce in the Times. The Bosnian Serb blamed the Dutchman for Willian’s goal when the Brazilian lobbed Simon Mignolet with a chip with sub Adam Lallana waiting to come on in the 1 v 1 draw v Chelsea in November. According to the respected journalist, Buvac blamed Achterberg for not getting Adam Lallana on the field quick enough, with the Dutchman responsible for liaising with the 4th official and confirming Liverpool’s substitutions.

Joyce wrote:
“The mix-up prompted a heated response from Zeljko Buvac, the Liverpool assistant manager, who was furious with John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach, at the failure to get Lallana on to the pitch.

“And he exploded in another rage when Chelsea equalised two minutes later and refused to speak to Achterberg, who liaises with the fourth official over substitutions, when Liverpool made a double change soon after, with Lallana and Sadio Mané eventually thrown on.”

Lallana was waiting on the sideline for minutes before his eventual introduction, with Klopp suggesting his arrival would have changed our formation to a back-five which could have hopefully defended Willian’s fluke-cross a little better.

Achterberg won’t have went home feeling especially good on Saturday night, with his keeper Mignolet lobbed for the equaliser as well.

Probably as a result of this in February the club decided to bring in a Goalkeeping Consultant - According to former Austria no.1 Helge Payer, Hans Leitert is currently working with Liverpool to help the first-team goalkeepers.

Leitert runs a GK consultancy firm and clinic, having published a book called “The Art Of Goalkeeping Or The Seven Principles Of The Masters,” while holding a Masters degree in Sport Science. He usually works with clubs under Red Bull’s ownership, but is spending time at Liverpool sharing some wisdom. This went under the radar, but doesn't augur well if we are having to Coach the Coaches!

Since Reina left, all of our goalkeepers have been poor. I didn’t include Bogdan in the list, but did I really have to? John Achterberg is the last remaining member of backroom staff from during the Brendan Rodgers era, the rest having been replaced by Klopp’s staff.

Achterberg was a cheap option at a time FSG were trimming the fat off the top for their "fiscal responsibility brainwashing" and maybe it’s time for him to leave before he sullies the next big hope with gloves that comes in this summer?

With Achterberg as 1st Team Goalkeeping Coach:

11/12 Season GA 40
12/13 Season GA 43
13/14 Season GA 50
14/15 Season GA 48
15/16 Season GA 50
16/17 Season GA 42
17/18 Season GA 38

Avg 44.43 Goals Allowed per season.

Before Achterberg:

10/11 Season GA 44
09/10 Season GA 35
08/09 Season GA 27
07/08 Season GA 28
06/07 Season GA 27
05/06 Season GA 25

Avg 31 Goals Allowed per season.

http://www.koptalk.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/604352/1.html





So why can't Klopp see that and do something about it? Is he under the protection of FSG or something? Have you ever seen him at work, how do you know better that those at the club. Stop talking nonsense.

Pickles #614716 12/12/18 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted By Pickles
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By paul66
Has Achterberg gone from Liverpool.... Because according to many bright sparks on here he was the main reason all our keepers were [oops]. Answers on a postcard please


The Pickles is best placed to answer that, he follows Achterberg very closely. However, looks like he is following Hendo more these days.


Henderson is a middle of the road premier league player, we are Liverpool FC an elite premier league club.

Question for you Vish..."Do you think Henderson would play regularly at any of the other Top 6 Premier League Clubs as it stands"?

The fact Henderson is Captain would suggest he is considered our most important player, however there is an obvious disconnect currently with this because he does't play every important game for us!

Does Hendersons' current standing within the squad deserve him to be Captain?


Being Captain is completely secondary to me and you don't even know what leadership qualities Klopp sees in him, we are not on the pitch or with the squad. Yes he is not skilful as Gerard but it not always the best player who is made captain. What do you mean he doesn't play any important game for us, are you saying yesterday's game was not important?

Pickles #614718 12/12/18 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By Pickles
Achterberg has had a hand in recognizing / suggesting GoalKeepers to bring to the club and has ultimately had the task of Coaching them. We have gone through GoalKeepers like disposable handkerchiefs in Achterberg's time at the club. The fact folks don't want to realise the Guy is just not up to the job is sad. I am a fan which allows me to be a critic of the blatant problems we endure and Achterberg is a big problem.

I sincerely hope Alisson doesn't turn out to be poo but I can't have any faith whatsoever in the man tasked to Coach him, judged on his previous experience with us.



The one massive thing that you constantly ignore in all this is that none of the keepers he’s worked with until now were or would ever be good enough. Only one that was was Reina and he was on the way down way before Achterberg came in.

paul66 #614722 12/12/18 05:25 PM
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Again doesn't Achterbergs' judgement need to be called into question on those GoalKeepers? I'm sure Klopp and Brendan before him asked him to run the rule over the GoalKeepers before they were purchased.

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Originally Posted By Pickles
Originally Posted By TiredReds


The Pickles is best placed to answer that, he follows Achterberg very closely. However, looks like he is following Hendo more these days.

Question for you Vish..."Do you think Henderson would play regularly at any of the other Top 6 Premier League Clubs as it stands"?




You still didn't answer the 1st question.

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