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#616932 - 22/01/19 05:47 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
There is no law that says you need to have a hard border with physical checks WTO rules only say you need an effective border. Also the backstop would guarantee a hard border and such a measure is only a temporary measure holding the whole of the uk in a customs union until such time as new arrangements can be agreed. So you don't have to be in a permanent customs union to avoid a hard border. Otherwise the British government would be campaigning for a permenant customs union which they are not.


I don't know what's a hard or soft border, but I am talking about a border to allow customs checks


A hard border is a physical checkpoint stopping your car and a customs officer with a pencil and clipboard questioning you or searching your vehicle. That is not necessary to check customs rules and it's silly it's being put forward as a political weapon. Especially since the trade over the border (south vs north) is minuscule. Just small amounts of aggregates and farm produce.


Evidence please

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#616935 - 22/01/19 06:30 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Shaggydog]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 26846
Loc: Not the EU
Shaggy the evidence is because I have read it and watched it on the zillions of articles I have read on brexit. However I did I simple search on Google (which you were obviously too lazy to do). We are looking like 4 billion which is peanuts in relation to overall trade. The main markets for both the republic and NI are mainland Britain I did not need to google to find that out anyone with half a brain knows that. You will also note it sells sod all to the rest of the EU. Vish goods containers and otherwise could be dealt with via trusted supplier schemes and self assessment and spot audits. Exactly as most trade is done. The idea we need some special method to check the trade between the republic and NI is preposterous

https://fullfact.org/europe/irish-border-trade/


Edited by Stanley Park (22/01/19 06:34 PM)
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#616937 - 22/01/19 07:10 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the evidence is because I have read it and watched it on the zillions of articles I have read on brexit. However I did I simple search on Google (which you were obviously too lazy to do). We are looking like 4 billion which is peanuts in relation to overall trade. The main markets for both the republic and NI are mainland Britain I did not need to google to find that out anyone with half a brain knows that. You will also note it sells sod all to the rest of the EU. Vish goods containers and otherwise could be dealt with via trusted supplier schemes and self assessment and spot audits. Exactly as most trade is done. The idea we need some special method to check the trade between the republic and NI is preposterous

https://fullfact.org/europe/irish-border-trade/




In 2016, 15% of Northern Irish sales and exports beyond its own geographical borders went to the Republic of Ireland. If we discount sales to the rest of the United Kingdom—counting just ‘exports’ to foreign countries—then 35% of Northern Irish exports are to the Republic.

"You will also note it sells sod all to the rest of the EU"

N. Ireland sells £3billion worth of goods to the rest of the EU

In the event of a No Deal Brexit Britain will become a 3rd country operating under WTO rules with tariffs being applied along with customs checks and paperwork. Let's see how easy it is to export across the Irish border then. The EU have announced today that there will be a hard border in Ireland in the event of a No Deal Brexit. Unfortunately there are two sides to the Irish border.

Also at least 30,000 people travel over the border every day. That's over 10,000,000 journeys per year. How will the hard border affect us. Is that peanuts also?

As for the trusted supplier scheme and self assessment those ideas have already been blown out of the water a long time ago. If that was the solution we would already have a deal.

The idea you refuse to accept that there will be a border and the UK will no longer be a member of the EU and therefore a 3rd country is ludicrous. In the event of a No Deal Brexit everything will change utterly, pretending we can just continue as if nothing has changed is refusing to accept reality.





Edited by Shaggydog (22/01/19 07:13 PM)

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#616943 - 22/01/19 09:35 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Shaggydog]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 26846
Loc: Not the EU
Shaggy the trusted supplier scheme etc was rejected yes. But why ? That I don't understand because such a scheme with technology works just fine at ports like Felixstowe one port will probably pass more trade than the whole of Ireland several times over in a year from countries all over the world. Felixstowe alone is circa £80 billion. Please explain why it won't work. And 3 billion trade with the rest of the EU is peanuts as is 4 billion trade with ROI. The idea such a scheme can't work over the Irish border is simply because the EU and remain British politicians don't want it to work. The Irish border is their prime lever to keep Britain in the EU and they are not going to let it go. If I am wrong please explain how
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#616944 - 22/01/19 09:58 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the trusted supplier scheme etc was rejected yes. But why ? That I don't understand because such a scheme with technology works just fine at ports like Felixstowe one port will probably pass more trade than the whole of Ireland several times over in a year from countries all over the world. Felixstowe alone is circa £80 billion. Please explain why it won't work. And 3 billion trade with the rest of the EU is peanuts as is 4 billion trade with ROI. The idea such a scheme can't work over the Irish border is simply because the EU and remain British politicians don't want it to work. The Irish border is their prime lever to keep Britain in the EU and they are not going to let it go. If I am wrong please explain how


Stan have you seen the movie Groundhog Day?

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#616946 - 23/01/19 02:52 AM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
EnergisedReds Online   content
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 21498
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the trusted supplier scheme etc was rejected yes. But why ? That I don't understand because such a scheme with technology works just fine at ports like Felixstowe one port will probably pass more trade than the whole of Ireland several times over in a year from countries all over the world. Felixstowe alone is circa £80 billion. Please explain why it won't work. And 3 billion trade with the rest of the EU is peanuts as is 4 billion trade with ROI. The idea such a scheme can't work over the Irish border is simply because the EU and remain British politicians don't want it to work. The Irish border is their prime lever to keep Britain in the EU and they are not going to let it go. If I am wrong please explain how


So UK should just leave without a deal. What's this trusted supplier thing at Felixtowe? There are customs at the port of Felixtowe, they do checks as and when required, the technology is used to move containers and pass customs bills in advance if required.


Edited by TiredReds (23/01/19 02:53 AM)

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#616957 - 23/01/19 11:46 AM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: EnergisedReds]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 26846
Loc: Not the EU
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the trusted supplier scheme etc was rejected yes. But why ? That I don't understand because such a scheme with technology works just fine at ports like Felixstowe one port will probably pass more trade than the whole of Ireland several times over in a year from countries all over the world. Felixstowe alone is circa £80 billion. Please explain why it won't work. And 3 billion trade with the rest of the EU is peanuts as is 4 billion trade with ROI. The idea such a scheme can't work over the Irish border is simply because the EU and remain British politicians don't want it to work. The Irish border is their prime lever to keep Britain in the EU and they are not going to let it go. If I am wrong please explain how


So UK should just leave without a deal. What's this trusted supplier thing at Felixtowe? There are customs at the port of Felixtowe, they do checks as and when required, the technology is used to move containers and pass customs bills in advance if required.


I would favour Theresa Mays as tweaked deal as I have said countless times. Not personally but pragmatically. I am no expert on the operations of International ports (and neither are you) but I have read several articles. And they are highly efficient and technology based a man with a peaked cap and clipboard went out some time ago. The managing director of next whom import all their clothes from the Far East said on question time goods pass through the port in as little as two hours.
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#616959 - 23/01/19 12:31 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
EnergisedReds Online   content
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 21498
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Originally Posted By TiredReds
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Shaggy the trusted supplier scheme etc was rejected yes. But why ? That I don't understand because such a scheme with technology works just fine at ports like Felixstowe one port will probably pass more trade than the whole of Ireland several times over in a year from countries all over the world. Felixstowe alone is circa £80 billion. Please explain why it won't work. And 3 billion trade with the rest of the EU is peanuts as is 4 billion trade with ROI. The idea such a scheme can't work over the Irish border is simply because the EU and remain British politicians don't want it to work. The Irish border is their prime lever to keep Britain in the EU and they are not going to let it go. If I am wrong please explain how


So UK should just leave without a deal. What's this trusted supplier thing at Felixtowe? There are customs at the port of Felixtowe, they do checks as and when required, the technology is used to move containers and pass customs bills in advance if required.


I would favour Theresa Mays as tweaked deal as I have said countless times. Not personally but pragmatically. I am no expert on the operations of International ports (and neither are you) but I have read several articles. And they are highly efficient and technology based a man with a peaked cap and clipboard went out some time ago. The managing director of next whom import all their clothes from the Far East said on question time goods pass through the port in as little as two hours.


Doesn't mean there are no customs checks and no paper works. By the way our company handles thousands of containers of garments exported to the EU including UK and we do a lot of those paper works. Maybe you don't imagine what a couple of mins of waiting time means when you have thousands of container trucks. The only way to know for real is a no deal, otherwise doubters will never stop doubting, either way.

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#616968 - 23/01/19 04:00 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: EnergisedReds]
Stanley Park Offline
Liverpool Legend

Registered: 21/10/09
Posts: 26846
Loc: Not the EU
Vish you keep focussing on technical issues yes a slight delay can result in huge problems I realise that so I think do the politicians. But the Irish border is a political issue Theresa Mays deal and the backstop and the letters from the EU clearly imply there can be a solution. As we get to no deal the Irish prime minister (surprise surprise) said Britain could have a bi lateral deal with Ireland. So it could but why not mention that 6 months ago ? Because the EU does not want to sort it out because it's their main lever in negotiations. It will be sorted but only when the EU has either stopped brexit or wrung every concession out of Britain it can. If we had politicians across parties that act for Britain this would not happen but we don't and so this is what we get. It's also not helped that Northern Ireland has not had a government for the last two years from some squabble that escapes me.
_________________________
IF YOU WANT TO BE HEARD SPEAK SOFTLY - BOB PAISLEY

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#616976 - 23/01/19 08:01 PM Re: Brexit and the chequers agreement ? [Re: Stanley Park]
Shaggydog Offline
1st Team Regular

Registered: 30/12/10
Posts: 11009
Loc: Derry
Originally Posted By Stanley Park
Vish you keep focussing on technical issues yes a slight delay can result in huge problems I realise that so I think do the politicians. But the Irish border is a political issue Theresa Mays deal and the backstop and the letters from the EU clearly imply there can be a solution. As we get to no deal the Irish prime minister (surprise surprise) said Britain could have a bi lateral deal with Ireland. So it could but why not mention that 6 months ago ? Because the EU does not want to sort it out because it's their main lever in negotiations. It will be sorted but only when the EU has either stopped brexit or wrung every concession out of Britain it can. If we had politicians across parties that act for Britain this would not happen but we don't and so this is what we get. It's also not helped that Northern Ireland has not had a government for the last two years from some squabble that escapes me.


The squabble that escapes you is the one where the DUP have the British government (meant to be an impartial arbitratior with the Irish government) by the balls.

P.S. There is also a small squabble going on in the British parliament at the moment

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