KopTalk

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 23,084
Liverpool Legend
Offline
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 23,084
We mustnt forget that for a long time Phil was very inconsistent.


That job interview was going so well until I realized I was fukked up on acid in the middle of a cornfield naked and talking to a scarecrow.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,605
V
1st Team Squad
Offline
1st Team Squad
V
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,605
Indeed. In fact it was only the last 6-9 months with us that he started to perform week in week out on a regular basis.

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
G
Under 16 Player
OP Offline
Under 16 Player
G
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
Just gonna bump this post up as I feel some points I made have been quite prophetic...I was being too kind in some respects. I think by far our weakest area has been our midfield....the area where everyone was so confident about at the beginning. Turns out my point of us not adding to the depth seems to have born out to be true...no one can say we have improved in that area of the pitch. With Can, Ox and coutinho out, Keita, fabinho and shaquiri have merely plugged the hole, they havent improved things...arguably we have regressed in that area. Defensively and Goalkeeping wise, they are the reason we are where we are in the league. But we must start playing better if we ever want to win anything.

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Liverpool Legend
Offline
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 22,394
Pat on the back for you sir. Please come back next summer to shed some more of your wisdom on our dealings.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
H
1st Team Squad
Offline
1st Team Squad
H
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,595
I think one could argue that we now have sufficient quality, on paper, to compete at the top, despite being considerably weaker than some of our competition. However as we can all see we're struggling and scraping to stay in contention.
It seems to me that at least some of our difficulties has to do with a lack of cohesive teamwork, especially through midfield, compounded by a lack of support from midfield to the front players. We look disjointed and unsure of how our attack from the back should progress. I'd put at least some of this confusion down to Klopp's change of tactics this season. It looks as though the players have either not bought into it or that Klopp hasn't properly drilled them in his new approach. Having so many of our best performers all off form simultaneously is most unlikely, if not for the reasons I've suggested above.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Offline
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By ghostgoal
So there has been plenty been said about Liverpool's transfer dealings this window. Many citing it as the best window we've had in decades, others saying its a real statement of intent and ambition from our club for this upcoming campaign. But, when you look at things a little bit closely...is it really?

For me there were 2 things that meant the difference between Liverpool being contenders and Liverpool being European champions last season. 1. The goalkeeping position. and 2. Strength in depth. At the tail end of undoubtedly, one of the most exciting seasons we've experienced under klopp culminating in the unfortunate defeat to Real Madrid in the Champions league final, never were those two factors more apparent than in that game. A half crocked, injury depleted squad and a keeper making two (arguably three) absolute howlers that cost us the game.

Now before we go any further, I do believe we have sorted reason number 1 out. Allison, at least statistically, has been fantastic for Roma. His keeper/sweeping and brilliant distribution suits us down to the ground. As good as his stats may be however, after watching him play I'm absolute certain he will be giving us all some heart attacks this coming campaign...as well as some bad gaffs as well. That's the type of keeper he is. He plays on the edge and takes risk..but ultimately...MUCH better than Karius.

Now we get to the problem that for me...still persists.
Yes, Keita, Fabinho and shaq have been, on the face of at least, brilliant and shrewd signings respectively. When we temper them however, against the players that have left and/or unavailable for us this campaign... I'm not so sure the window is as mind blowingly positive as people are making out. To illustrate what I mean, I'll draw the comparisons between our additions to those that arnt here/available anymore.

Outfield Players In: Keita, Fabinho, Shaq
Outfield Players out/unavailable: Coutinho, Can, Ox

Fabinho: - Can Replacement?

Ok so Fabinho. On paper a very good player for the DM position and most likely bought as a replacement for Emre Can. Now in terms of direct comparison its hard to say as both play slightly differently and Fabinho is as yet unproven in the premier league. One point I would make though is that, if price is any indication of quality, considering we bought Fabinho for £40 million, do we believe we would have sold Emre Can for a comparative or larger figure if he didnt leave on a free? In today's market, I believe we would have done so very easily. Although inconsistent at times, when on song was arguably our best midfielder. Still young and able to improve, it at least puts into question whether this is an upgrade in this position at all. Meaning on the whole, you'd have to say we haven't improved the first 11 with this signing, merely maintained it. I think its quite clear that this is a signing made out of necessity as a result of Can not signing a new deal than a signing made with any intent or "ambition".

Shaquiri -- Bargain replacement for Coutinho?

Now in terms of comparison Shaquiri is the closest of the incoming players in terms of how he plays and positions he takes up on the pitch to coutinho. In this regard I dont think anyone would argue that Shaq is not in the same league as Coutinho. Coutinho is an infinitely better player both objectively and statistically. If Shaq was bought as a replacement for Phil then this is a huge downgrade and definitely does not improve the first 11.

Keita -- Ox??

Now this isnt really a fair comparison, mainly due to the fact that both players are very different in how they approach the game. In terms of their roles in the team however, they both play in similiar areas of the pitch. That being said, in terms of quality and effectiveness *as a midfielder* I would probably give it to Keita. However, the caveat to this is, with the injury to OX and the departure of Coutinho, I really think there is a hole in the squad in terms of either creativity, or direct penetrating runs into the box that Ox or Phil offered, respectively. Although Keita is capable of both of these things, but not in the same way both Ox and Coutinho. When we signed Keita last year it was one I very much welcomed. I thought it was a shrewd buy, what with Milner not getting any younger and lallana being inconsistent/injury prone. In that regard considering Milner's age and the current make-up of the team...there is enough there to make the argument that his signing is again, born out of necessity rather than ambition.

There is much talk about our recent outlay this transfer window as well. Figures being quoted at around 200 million for this past january and this transfer window. When we look at Klopps Net spend during his Tenure though, it comes to £130 million for the 3 years he's been here. You divide that by the 6 transfer windows there has been, it comes to an average of 21.6 million per window....and this isnt even taking into account the 100 million they are planning to recoup by selling some of our fringe players at the end of this one. Not exactly MASSIVE investment, especially when you consider the increase in revenues we've recently got from both the TV deal and the CL success we've had.

In conclusion, when I consider the transfer window I believe we have solved the 1st problem for the most part. Allison is definitely an improvement on Karius. When I look at the squad however, I see very much the same problem in terms of the first team outfield players. We have a very very good first 11 who when fit and all accounted for, is capable of beating any other team comfortably. You scratch a little bit further down however and there is a significant drop off in quality in key areas. We lack quality cover in the CB area and the Left back area. We also lack any *reliable* and *quality* cover for Firmino up top. In the cold light of day, it must be said that this again, is a squad assembled to consolidate top 4 and maybe do well in one of either the domestic cups or the CL from what I can see. I just dont see the adequate quality to significantly push City for the Premier league title.

These are my views. Would love to hear a rebuttal or thoughts on it. Would love to be convinced wrong. Long time reader and contributor returning from a hiatus.

Cheers.



If you are adding Coutinho to the equation then VVD should also be included in your analysis. I don't think you would be talking about a myth if Keita had performed as Klopp expected, he waited a whole season for him, I am sure he was supposed to strengthen our midfield much more than he has been able to do so far, midfield is our weak spot this season. Our forwards also are not performing as expected but that doesn't have anything to do with the transfer

Last edited by TiredReds; 04/12/18 02:56 AM.
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
G
Under 16 Player
OP Offline
Under 16 Player
G
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
That’s where you’re wrong Vish. The front three arnt firing as much because the midfield behind them isn’t doing too well. The high energy press is gone. There is no creativity. So much so that Klopp has to change the system by pulling Firmino back, but it isn’t working. This wouldn’t have happened if he actually did improve the midfield by bringing in a genuine creative midfielder. Therefore the transfers or lack there of suitable ones in that area HAS effected the front three

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 81
R
Under 16 Player
Offline
Under 16 Player
R
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 81
Ghosty I certainly wouldn’t be patting my self on the back just yet with your predictions, considering we are only 2 points off top and not struggling to make top 4 because “we haven’t strengthened our squad.”

To quote yourself .....“Are we again, just set up to scrape into top 4? Because we are still aways off of City in my mind.”

I believe we are set up to fight for the title in what is a record breaking start to a season for us and city across the board.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Liverpool Legend
Offline
Liverpool Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,926
Originally Posted By ghostgoal
That’s where you’re wrong Vish. The front three arnt firing as much because the midfield behind them isn’t doing too well. The high energy press is gone. There is no creativity. So much so that Klopp has to change the system by pulling Firmino back, but it isn’t working. This wouldn’t have happened if he actually did improve the midfield by bringing in a genuine creative midfielder. Therefore the transfers or lack there of suitable ones in that area HAS effected the front three


I think we have spent 110m on 3 midfielders, one of them at a cut price as he is worth much more. Are you saying we would spend that kind of money without the intention of improving the midfield? Klopp has waited one whole season to get the player he wanted. So we definitely tried to improve. The fact that those players are not performing as expected or we have changed tactics is another matter. That said, if you look at our points tally we have definitely and significantly improved, this is a fact as well. Best start of the season for decades.

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
G
Under 16 Player
OP Offline
Under 16 Player
G
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 193
We have improved on our points tally in spite of our midfield I dont think anyone can deny that. Largely its been the amazing performances of our defence and goalkeeper that has won us games, which is great. Cant complain about that, long may it continue. That and we are clearly prioritising the league this year. And yeah, Klopp may have intended to improve the midfield, but my point was all those months ago...and has borne out to be true now...we HAVENT strengthened in that area when you consider the players that went out. What everyone was bleating on about to be our strongest area of the pitch, it seems it was only me (on this forum at least) to contradict that thinking.

But mark my words, the way we're playing, there are only so many rolls of the dice that can go your way. City are still a level above us (they were unlucky with that missed penalty at anfield), Arsenal look strong, Chelsea look strong and Tottenham look ok despite not buying anyone and still not having their own stadium. Points wise its still very close and very early with the christmas fixtures coming up. A time of the season we have struggled before. My prediction of "just scraping into the top 4 and doing ok in a domestic cup" might just still come in. And with the way we're scraping results and not looking convincing, would it really be that surprising?

What really worries me is I seen something in Keita in that Napoli game that I really didnt like. He played poorly for the first 20 minutes and then suddenly had a mysterious back injury... we havent seen much of him since then despite him being now fully fit for awhile. Something tells me that Klopp has seen what I saw in him in that game and he's lost a bit of trust.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  KopTalk Team 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Advertisements
Liverpool FC Discussion